#1  
Old 07-22-2003, 09:32 PM
Dropkick Murphys - Racist?

I just started listening to this band not that long ago...I have only heard the Do or Die album but I noticed a couple references to "skinheads". So are these guys racists or what? That'd be too bad, as I dig their music.

Then again, I don't really know what I'm talking about, so I might sound like a total idiot....
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  #2  
Old 07-22-2003, 10:56 PM
dude.. do you know what skinheads are?
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  #3  
Old 07-23-2003, 01:10 AM
One would assume it means people who shave their head...but the term is used in American History X to describe the Neo Nazi guys. Does it mean something else?

"Young skinhead, they call you a hooligan. Just because you don't make any sense to them." Some lyrics if I remember correctly.
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  #4  
Old 07-23-2003, 01:29 AM
I feel skaaddict coming up with the history of skin headians in a few... it's actually quite ironic and iteresting, I'm just oo sleepy to post it all right now. : )
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  #5  
Old 07-23-2003, 11:22 AM
skinheads are not always racist. there are ones who are, and those who aren't. one of my best friends when i was in high school was a skinhead, and was totally not racist. as a matter of fact, he came to several of our ara meetings (anti-racist action)
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  #6  
Old 07-23-2003, 10:03 PM
Well I know shaving your head doesn't make you a racist...I just assume there is some other significance to the actual term 'skinhead'....which apparently I misunderstand.
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  #7  
Old 07-23-2003, 11:16 PM
God I know too much about these things.

Skinheads developed with the hardcore trend in the early 80's. On the East Coast (it spread later), hardcore kids started shaving there heads and wearing tucked in combat boots, as a style and as functional equipment. There was alot of violence against punk kids in those days and the shaved head was so that their hair couldn't be grabbed and the boots were for better kicking. It jsut became a staple of punk and metal style.

So, alot of nazis are skinheads but very few skinheads are nazis and if they refer to themselves as skinheads and not nazis, they are not nazis.

But they will kick the shit out of you.
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  #8  
Old 07-24-2003, 12:39 AM
Hm, interesting. Thanks for the info.

Just one question then: How come in American History X, the cop asks if Ed Norton's character is a skinhead, and the black principal replies "he's THE skinhead". Just a misuse of the term I guess?
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  #9  
Old 07-24-2003, 07:49 PM
I think the normal public view of skinheads is that they're all nazis. So yeah, it was probably just a misuse of the term.
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  #10  
Old 07-25-2003, 12:10 AM
Re: Dropkick Murphys - Racist?

Quote:
Originally posted by badberry
So are these guys racists or what? That'd be too bad, as I dig their music.

[/B]
So what if they are racist? You dig their shit, right? So dig it and forget about racial undertones. Back in the day, there were quite a few hardcore punk bands that dabbled in "racism". The shit they played was too powerful to be dismissed on the basis of being somewhat racist. Sure racism is bad. But we're talking music here, right? Enjoy it for what it is.

Skinheads originated in England in the 60s. Contrary to popular opinion, they were not just a bunch of disenfranchised white kids from the working class background. They were multiracial and listened to reggae music. All in all, they were clearly a product of the hippie "peace and love" era. Then there was a division of interests...
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  #11  
Old 07-25-2003, 01:13 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by JustOneFix
So what if they are racist? You dig their shit, right? So dig it and forget about racial undertones. Back in the day, there were quite a few hardcore punk bands that dabbled in "racism". The shit they played was too powerful to be dismissed on the basis of being somewhat racist. Sure racism is bad. But we're talking music here, right? Enjoy it for what it is.

Well that might be your point of view, but personally, I find it hard to support someone with racist views, regardless of whether their music is good or not. Similiar to how I'd never be a fan of R Kelly (not that I like his stuff anyway) and how I disagree with giving Polanski an Oscar. Art is not indepenent of personal lives, in my opinion.

Luckily, that doesn't seem to be the case here. I haven't found any other evidence of it and from what I've heard supporting skinheads doesnt mean supporting Nazis. So I can safely say, Dropkick Murphys == cool, without feeling guilty.

(I have heard of so called 'Nazi Punks' but I've never actually encountered anything of the sort...do such bands actually exist?)
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  #12  
Old 07-25-2003, 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by badberry
Well that might be your point of view, but personally, I find it hard to support someone with racist views, regardless of whether their music is good or not. Similiar to how I'd never be a fan of R Kelly (not that I like his stuff anyway) and how I disagree with giving Polanski an Oscar. Art is not indepenent of personal lives, in my opinion.
I see your point. I personally found it not easy to support a band like Rage Against The Machine, mostly because of their childish political views and the surrounding bullshit. Now that they have a new non-political singer, I can buy their stuff without a burden on my conscience.

So you hate Polanski, eh? It's a shame. He's a great man.

Quote:

(I have heard of so called 'Nazi Punks' but I've never actually encountered anything of the sort...do such bands actually exist?)
I think the term "nazi punks" referes to Sex Pistols-era punkers that dressed up in nazi attire and wore swastika shirts as a fashion statement.
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  #13  
Old 07-25-2003, 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by JustOneFix
I see your point. I personally found it not easy to support a band like Rage Against The Machine, mostly because of their childish political views and the surrounding bullshit. Now that they have a new non-political singer, I can buy their stuff without a burden on my conscience.

So you hate Polanski, eh? It's a shame. He's a great man.
So you have a burden on your conscience from listening to RATM, but it doesn't bother to listen to music with racist undertones? I can't see the sense in that. You might not like the views of Rage, but they at least care about improving people's lives and trying to make the world a better place, much the opposite of someone who did 'hate music' or whatever.

And I don't hate Polanski. I don't know the man. All I know is that we shouldn't be bestowing honours on people who have been convicted of sex crimes...
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  #14  
Old 07-25-2003, 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by JustOneFix
So you hate Polanski, eh? It's a shame. He's a great man.
What exactly makes Polanski "a great man?"

The fact that he has a talent?

Or the fact that he drugs and kiddie fucks little girls?

Just wondering.
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  #15  
Old 07-25-2003, 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Grebdron
What exactly makes Polanski "a great man?"

The fact that he has a talent?


Precisely. The man has some talent. What he did was a morally reprehensible act and a rather careless one too for a man of his intelligence. I don't see any malicious intent in his actions. I see a man who made a bad choice as a result of being unable to cope with pressures of power, fame, and tragedy. This may sound cliched, but that's exactly what happened to him.
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  #16  
Old 07-25-2003, 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by badberry
So you have a burden on your conscience from listening to RATM, but it doesn't bother to listen to music with racist undertones? I can't see the sense in that. You might not like the views of Rage, but they at least care about improving people's lives and trying to make the world a better place, much the opposite of someone who did 'hate music' or whatever.

I know too well what happens when impressionable and lazy minds start taking those marginal ideas seriously. We have enough college revolutionaries in Canada and recently they had quite a few good opportunities to show their true face to the public.

I don't see how Rage's ideas can improve people's lives. They offered a very simplistic and narrow-minded view of the world's problems. Thank God they smartened up and kicked out the chief instigator.
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  #17  
Old 07-25-2003, 10:53 PM
honestly, all that stuff is for the birds (imo)

Rage fuckin ROCKS... i have all of their Cd's and one of their DVD's

Roman Polanski is a fuckin GREAT director.


now... i am a Skin head (By Choice). i love black ppl, i have had 3 of them over my house AT ONE TIME (haha just kidding, had to throw in some DL Hughley)

But, i am a skin head because my hair was thinning out, and it was either go bald, or have the George Constanza look (even though that man did pull down some decent pussy).

I am in not Racist, everyopne has an equal opportunity with me.

well, i guess in a way EVERYONE is racist or sum sort of Prejudice. If i am sitting in my car, in an ally, in the ghetto of DC, and i see 5 black dudes coming up to my car, i will get a lil scared. That isnt racist, well i guess it is, but it isnt BLATENT racism.

i think RACISM is a term that gets way blown out of proportion these days. There are still PEOPLE that will be racist, no doubt, noone can ever stop that. BUT groups like: the KKK, NAACP, and BET do not need to be around, because they further promote segregation.

Just my 2 cents.
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  #18  
Old 07-26-2003, 07:57 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by JustOneFix
Precisely. The man has some talent. What he did was a morally reprehensible act and a rather careless one too for a man of his intelligence. I don't see any malicious intent in his actions. I see a man who made a bad choice as a result of being unable to cope with pressures of power, fame, and tragedy. This may sound cliched, but that's exactly what happened to him.
That's a poor excuse for his actions, I gotta say. And the man may be talented, but that doesn't mean we should be saying "its ok, we love you....here, have an Oscar". He's never even been punished for your crimes. Maybe if he hadn't fled the country and had actually done his time, we could move on and and honour him for his work. But there has to be some consequence for what he did, I think.

Quote:
Originally posted by JustOneFix
I know too well what happens when impressionable and lazy minds start taking those marginal ideas seriously. We have enough college revolutionaries in Canada and recently they had quite a few good opportunities to show their true face to the public.
Care to elaborate? I happen to be university student in Canada myself. Not much of an activist, but what do you mean by their 'true face'?

Quote:
Originally posted by SkyNet
well, i guess in a way EVERYONE is racist or sum sort of Prejudice. If i am sitting in my car, in an ally, in the ghetto of DC, and i see 5 black dudes coming up to my car, i will get a lil scared. That isnt racist, well i guess it is, but it isnt BLATENT racism.
Yeah, I mean everybody is somewhat racist I guess...we have preconceptions and what not. Whether or not you act on those ideas is the big thing.
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  #19  
Old 07-31-2003, 08:55 PM
Bumping this up, cuz I'd still like to hear what JustOneFix meant exactly about 'college revolutionaries'...I'm not indignant, I'm just curious.
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  #20  
Old 07-31-2003, 09:18 PM
Polianski.......


This guy did somthing that he felt he should flee the country and hide....fact is, he is an a-hole and is living free instead of living in jail. I could care less about him and I care even less about his movies....he is guilty, didnt live up too it and he has one big smile on his face.....f' him....
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  #21  
Old 08-01-2003, 10:01 AM
Oh dear

its getting ugly in here

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  #22  
Old 08-01-2003, 12:59 PM
I'm a skinhead but I'm not racist, it's just that my hair is uncontrollable, it's just a mess. If its more than 2 inchs long it starts to look like nick nolte in the hulk. I prefer it shaved off.

Although given their sentimentalism towards Ireland one has to wonder what kind of answer the DMs would give if asked if they like the english. I'm not sure but it wouldn't surprise me if they gave an answer that could be seen as racist.
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  #23  
Old 08-01-2003, 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by JustOneFix
I see your point. I personally found it not easy to support a band like Rage Against The Machine, mostly because of their childish political views and the surrounding bullshit. Now that they have a new non-political singer, I can buy their stuff without a burden on my conscience.
Politcal views are obviously entirely perceptive, but I find Zack de la Rocha and Tom Morello to be both brilliant musicians and great political activists. When they preformed a charitable concerted to bring about awareness of a wrongful jailing (a whole big story that I don't have the time to go into), the police protested the whole ordeal by pickiting outside the concert.

And unlike most groups who would act violently or hatefully towards the officers, Rage made an excellent point, while taking a pretty funny jab at the whole situation. They band personally bought around 400 donuts and delivered them to the officers (almost the entire police force was there) with a message reading

"Since you've decided you'd rather sit on your asses here instead of protecting your community, we thought you should at least have a full stomach"

Well, it was very similar to that, I don't remember it precisely. Rage fights for the causes they believe in, and while you may not have the same belief's as them, I don't think it is at all childish to fight for what you believe in. Especially when your fighting is of the non-violent variety. That, to me, is far from childish.

And for the record, Rage Against the Machine no longer exists, so you can't listen to them now. What you listen to is Audioslave, which is entirely different band and sound all-together. Just so you at least have your facts straight.

[EDIT: and Chris Cornell isn't "non-politcal." In fact he is very politcal. When Audioslave was performing concerts when Bush was trying to go to war, they had banners proclaiming "Somewhere in Texas, a village is missing its idiot", and other such clearly political messages. Just trying to get yet another fact straight]

Last edited by Droog989; 08-01-2003 at 01:44 PM..
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  #24  
Old 08-01-2003, 02:21 PM
Right on Droog.

RIP Rage Against the Machine. You will be missed.
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  #25  
Old 04-15-2009, 01:42 PM
It was interesting reading this discussion, cause the term 'skinhead' is used in a very different way in my country (Hungary). By us it's usually a synonime of 'racist', although I've heard about the punk roots before, but it's not commonly associated with that. Here calling yourself a skinhead and dressig the way You described is not misunderstandable.

I have to agree with those, who mentioned their aversion about artists with untolerable political or ideological views or serious criminal past.

About RAtM: although I agree their views are sometimes naive, I find it more tolerable and responsible, than even the tiniest racist line in a song- unfortunately, I find their songs very similar to each other, and boring.

(however, I don't agree with the "Chris Cornell shares their political view" part, I'm a big fan of Audioslave and Soundgarden, and I've read many times, that one of the biggest problems between the members was exactly, that he didn't want to continue their political "mission".
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  #26  
Old 04-15-2009, 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ofmknockoff View Post
God I know too much about these things.

Skinheads developed with the hardcore trend in the early 80's. On the East Coast (it spread later), hardcore kids started shaving there heads and wearing tucked in combat boots, as a style and as functional equipment. There was alot of violence against punk kids in those days and the shaved head was so that their hair couldn't be grabbed and the boots were for better kicking. It jsut became a staple of punk and metal style.

So, alot of nazis are skinheads but very few skinheads are nazis and if they refer to themselves as skinheads and not nazis, they are not nazis.

But they will kick the shit out of you.
More accurate events occurred in England. Skinheads became predominant figure within O! punk (street punk,) bands like Sham 69, The Cockney Rejects, The Anglican Upstarts, The Business, etc., during the late 1970s. Most of these young people weren't racist at all, it was those simple-minded fools that formed the National Front, which destroyed the genre of O!
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  #27  
Old 04-15-2009, 02:40 PM
Threads from '03 are making a comeback!
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  #28  
Old 04-18-2009, 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by badberry View Post
So you have a burden on your conscience from listening to RATM, but it doesn't bother to listen to music with racist undertones? I can't see the sense in that. You might not like the views of Rage, but they at least care about improving people's lives and trying to make the world a better place, much the opposite of someone who did 'hate music' or whatever.
He has no problem with racist undertones and thinks that RATM's music contains childish political views. Don't you get it? He's a Uber-Republican, Fox News watching, racist hillbilly.
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  #29  
Old 04-19-2009, 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustOneFix View Post
So what if they are racist? You dig their shit, right? So dig it and forget about racial undertones.
WHOA, I could not disagree more. I would immediantly stop listening to a band if I found out they were racist. Hell I used to like Pantera but I got rid of all their CDs when they started putting confederate flags all over everything. That`s just me.

But since your screenname references a Ministry song I`m willing to cut you some slack.
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  #30  
Old 04-21-2009, 08:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustOneFix View Post
So what if they are racist? You dig their shit, right? So dig it and forget about racial undertones.
That is disgusting and immoral.
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  #31  
Old 01-30-2013, 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgyn View Post
WHOA, I could not disagree more. I would immediantly stop listening to a band if I found out they were racist. Hell I used to like Pantera but I got rid of all their CDs when they started putting confederate flags all over everything. That`s just me.

But since your screenname references a Ministry song I`m willing to cut you some slack.
i know what you are saying about the confederate flag but what you are forgetting a lot of southern Americans who are not racists in the nature or songs will fly it out of pride and nothing more and don't see the racist terms behind the awful flag. Take Lynrd Skyrnd fair from racist but has the flag out of pride tho belive have stopped flying it at shows now. but also know of loads of physobilly bands form dixie who have the flag but aint rascit
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  #32  
Old 01-30-2013, 06:38 PM
naiz punks is also neo punk and fascists who support white pride bands like skyrdriver etc
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  #33  
Old 01-30-2013, 06:45 PM
No dropkick murphys are not rascits if they were Tim Armsrtong would never have had them singed to hellcats. And of course they are not gonna say there not english as there Irish- American Plus i belive in pride not prejudice theres no room in society for prejudice
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