#1  
Old 05-04-2004, 01:31 AM
Mulholland Drive





Movies are supposed to grab your emotions and bend them into dozens of separate feelings. They are supposed to take you through everyday themes that will resonate with you and hundreds others like you. They have deeper issues sewn into their fabric that viewers can rip out and throw into discussion.
Mulholland Drive does none of this. Mulholland Drive is, for lack of a better word, a puzzle. That’s it. Nothing more, nothing less. For those who don’t ask for anything more than a nice meaty mystery to sink their teeth into, by all means--dig in.

The plot of this “movie” . . . um . . . Let me think for a second . . .
There’s a man who has a dream of a man who’s really a monster behind Winkie’s, a diner. There’s a woman who got in a terrible crash and is suffering from a severe case of amnesia. There’s another woman who’s renting out the room of her Aunt Ruth. There’s a director who’s having trouble with his picture.
So take that. Got it? Good. Now: step on it, peel it of your shoe, cut it up, digest it, and then wait until you have to go to the bathroom. Afterwards don’t flush--look in the toilet. THAT’S what Drive’s plot eventually morphs into.

Naomi Watts is certainly an acting force to be reckoned with. Initially she will fool you into thinking she’s giving a bad performance, but trust me--it’s intentional. Laura Elena Harring meets Watts’ acting prowess beat by beat, never getting left behind. Justin Theroux is particularly outstanding as the director. He’s just too cool for school.

This is my very first David Lynch movie. And what have I surmised? The guy can direct. He’s no Spielberg and certainly can't stand up to some of the top talents, but his style is relatively unique, if admittedly not very clever. Some of his shots are so “whatever” that any idiot off the street could think of similar venues to tackle the scene.

The score blew me away multiple times. It rarely shows up, so keep your ears attentive for it. Mellow, mellow, mellow . . . I dug it.

So here’s the problem with Drive: it isn’t a movie. Well, not a “movie” as in the general definition. We feel nothing for these ‘characters’. We don’t anticipate the plot and thus aren’t surprised when it takes one of many turns. Drive, as I mentioned above, Is nothing more than an elaborate puzzle.
That’s all a viewer can get from it.

Apart from that, there’s absolutely no realism implemented anywhere, whether it be relationships, locales, behaviors, or anything else you can think of. However, that isn’t as distracting as one might think: it actually helps ice the surrealism in the film, and begins to seem almost intentional on writer/director Lynch’s part.

Should you run out and see this? Depends on how you feel about it’s core being nothing more than an elaborate mystery. Is this mystery fun to figure out? I’d imagine so. Personally, this film was a waste of time for me. But there are hundreds out there who disagree, and doggedly pursue any answers to the movie they can find.

Exceptionable acting and score, stylish direction, and a shattered story that relies on repeated viewings and obsessive fans to be pieced together all culminate into a very unique, overrated viewing experience. True that I didn’t enjoy it, but there’s no denying that it’s quality stuff. However, it isn’t accessible to everyone, and still cops out on the basics of a good movie (emotion, themes, etc.).


7/10--for what it is, Mulholland Drive is gold . . . for what it isn’t, the film fails miserably


REVIEW DATABASE

MOVIES:

28 Days Later : 7/10
8mm : 9/10
Alien : 6/10
Audition: 7/10
August Underground : 5/10
Battle Royale : 8/10
Cannibal Holocaust : 9/10
Dawn of the Dead : 5/10
Day of the Dead: 8/10
The Dead Zone : 7/10
Donnie Darko : 10/10
The Eye : 7/10
Elephant : 6/10
Freaky Friday : 8/10
Ginger Snaps : 7/10
Hardcore : 6/10
Hellboy : 6/10
House of 1000 Corpses : 4/10
House of Sand and Fog : 9/10
Hulk : 10/10
Irreversible : 8/10
Kill Bill Volume 1 : 8/10
Kung Pow! Enter the Fist : 7/10
Last House on the Left: 3/10
May : 10/10
Memento : 8/10
Mulholland Drive : 7/10
Near Dark : 6/10
One Hour Photo : 9/10
Perfect Blue: 9/10
Requiem For a Dream : 8/10
Se7en : 9/10
Terminator 2: Judgment Day : 10/10
Thesis : 6/10
Underworld : 7/10
Willard : 8/10


TELEVISION
Buffy the Vampire Slayer (season 5) : A
Neon Genesis Evangelion - Perfect Collection : B-
End of Evangelion : A-


BOOKS
Stephen King's IT : 5/5 stars

Last edited by C-Desecration-; 09-20-2004 at 05:02 PM..
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  #2  
Old 05-04-2004, 02:18 AM
Hated this flick. This movie probably made alot of sense and has a very potent message but I think only one person fully got that... Lynch. The jumbled circumstances that are put together in this film are barely explained. When they are somewhat delved into you are still trying to fully understand it before you are hit by another confusing situation.
I have said this many times (and all of you that have bought or seen this should know) this film comes with instructions to help you figure it out. Give me a break.
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  #3  
Old 05-04-2004, 08:15 AM
Hey Evilxxx, the dvd doesnt include instructions, they are hints. 10 hints to help you "understand" the movie better.

Anyhows this film is gold to me, I love everything about it. Even that fact that I dont fully fully get it.

I love that feeling I got when I watched it, I was like "what the hell did I just see?" In fact the first time I saw it, as soon as it finished I saw it again. Instant replay.

I dont agree with your review in certain areas C-des, for example that the movie doesnt make us feel anything for the characters or promote any sort of emotional response from us.

I felt that this movie was very powerful in the emotional area. Its got a very strong supernatural aura to it that I found fascinating. How can Lynch create that feeling through film? Cause hes a talented guy, he knows that the unknow is a scary place. Like for example, you know theres something evil out there plotting against these two girls...but you just dont know exactly what it is. Those scenes in club silencio where specially disturbing to me in that sense. I mean, suddenly in the middle of the night one of the girls start talking in spanish...then they mysteriously need to go to this club...then what happens inside of it. Exactly what the fuck happened while they were there? I dont know but it sure was spooky as hell.

Ill agree with you on one thing though, this movie is not completely satasfying. It leaves waaaay to many unanswered questions....and makes you work waay to hard to find them. If your lucky to even find them.

Its not a satasfying film in that sense...but in the sense of not showing us everything, not telling or explaining every single detail to keep you interested and in the sense of creating this intense supernatural feeling I think the movie succeeded inmensely. The unknown can be a scary thing...and I think that enhancing that fear is what Mullholland Dr. was aiming for.
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  #4  
Old 05-04-2004, 10:57 AM
Okay . . .
You said that you basically think you do feel for the characters . . .
. . . then you go into how dread-filled the movie is. Those are two VERY different things. And since I'm here I'll just elaborate further: you don't feel, care for, or even understand these characters. They are just there. The only exception is Adam, who, for the first half of the movie, I actually understood. Of course, by the end he was as . . . well, let's just say that understanding didn't carry through. And even in the first half he wasn't exactly a dimensional guy, but his "what the hell's going on" tribulation was enough. Apart from him the characters were just nonexistant. I mentioned in my review how absolutely nothing in this film is realistic (behavior, actions, etc.), so maybe that also has something to do with the "whatever" characters.

Anyways, the movie was filled with quite a bit of dread. I agree with you there, space. That monster-bum freaked me out the first time he appeared. Also, the old couple at the end. Oh, and Solencio was very unsettling . . . for some reason ("it is recorded"). But that dread doesn't mean we care anything for the characters. It means that the movie has dread. Whup-di-doo. Good for it.

Still, overall there's really nothing anyone can get from this but a solid mystery. I guess that's enough for a lot of people.

Quote:
I dont agree with your review in certain areas C-des
All's right with the world.
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  #5  
Old 05-04-2004, 02:11 PM
Muholland Drive does have some nice style, great atmosphere, and a great score but that's about the only good things this film has to offer. I really didn't like this film all that much. Once again like any other David Lynch movie, it's just too damn confusing and bizzare. Also some of the side characters had some really bad or stupid dialogue. For a certain amount of time the movie actually made some sense and was interesting but the instant a certain character opens this one blue box the whole movie then makes no sense and just turns to weird. Also the movie seemed to move a bit too slow and Naomi Watts did kinda annoy me.
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  #6  
Old 05-04-2004, 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by C-Desecration-
You said that you basically think you do feel for the characters . . .
. . . then you go into how dread-filled the movie is. Those are two VERY different things.
I cared for the characters yeah, I mean the way the movie goes, it creates a huge amount of curiosity as to what will happen to these characters.

The biggest thing that this movie did for me aside from creating an intense feeling of dread and the unknown, was create a huge amount of curiosity. I really wanted to continue watching and see where it was all going. Unfortunately, just when you think will finally give you a golden nugget of understanding...it just gets more confusing. But I wont be the first to admit that I kind of liked not getting it and feeling confused, yeah I would have liked for the movie to be a bit easier to understand, but what the heck I took it for what it was. A strange and bizarre flick. (Not as strange as Lost Highway though...now theres a twisted fuck of a movie that I also loved!)

Quote:
Originally posted by C-Desecration-
I agree with you there, space.
Aha!
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  #7  
Old 05-05-2004, 04:30 AM
this was a really twisted movie and it probably would have made more sense in the long run if he had gotten to make it into a tv series. it would have to be on hbo or showtime though. this is my favorite lynch movie since wild at heart. especially loved the scene in the theater. not to mention the nude scenes with naomi and laura, yowzers!!!!!!!
A+

ciao
drdash
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  #8  
Old 05-05-2004, 02:09 PM
This has to be one of the best movies I have ever seen. This movie made me realise just how sick and tired I am of the logical straight-forward plots. More movies should fuck me up emotionally like MD did. Don`t take me wrong, I love movies with great plot and story behind them, but there are just too damn many of them. I need something new, something for my artistic sense, for my emotions and MD delivered.
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  #9  
Old 05-05-2004, 02:30 PM
I hated this movie when I first saw it cause it creeped me out and I couldn't get it out of my head, then the more it sank in the more I decided that it absolutely kicked ass, what an awesome awesome mindfuck!! but did anybody else have to look up websites to figure some things out, or was that just my stupid self??
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  #10  
Old 05-05-2004, 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by erinachan
but did anybody else have to look up websites to figure some things out, or was that just my stupid self??
Guilty as charged.
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  #11  
Old 05-05-2004, 03:10 PM
Tell you the truth, Ive never once gone into any of those sites. I just came up with my own interpretation of it.
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  #12  
Old 05-05-2004, 11:40 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by spacemonkey
Tell you the truth, Ive never once gone into any of those sites. I just came up with my own interpretation of it.
Me too.

However, this is the only movie I consider perfect. 10/10.
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  #13  
Old 05-06-2004, 02:27 PM
Hey X if you consider this movie perfect then why isn't it in your favorite movie column?
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  #14  
Old 05-06-2004, 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by pyscho dude
Hey X if you consider this movie perfect then why isn't it in your favorite movie column?
To me, "Best movies" and "Favorite Movies" are completely different things. Underworld isn't perfect but it's my favorite movie ever. Underwolrd, Final Destination, Butterfly Effect and Identity would be the "Favorites" while Mulholland Drive and Lola Rennt would be the "Best".

They're all in my twisted top ten though.
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  #15  
Old 05-06-2004, 11:29 PM
Quote:
I cared for the characters yeah, I mean the way the movie goes, it creates a huge amount of curiosity as to what will happen to these characters.
Oh, well, I don't think we can go any further than "I disagree" with this particular view. This is one of those cases where I doubt there's any way to debate around why you felt the way you did. And for me, I wasn't curious as to what would happen to them. At all. The first 15/20 minutes were GREAT, I dug it, but the thing lost air pretty quick. By the time the really weird things started I wasn't curious about anything. I just wanted the movie to end.
Movies create their realities. They're fantasy, all of them, so we need these realities to help ground the film and pull ourselves in as the audience. Drive never created any kind of ground-rules for it's partciular reality . . . I wouldn't have been surprised if one of the characters suddenly flew into the air and burst into song.
I wish I was joking.
Because of that 'whatever' feeling I had, I felt no need to anticipate anything. And without anticipation, you meet each unfolding event with a blank stare.
" Another weird twist. Huh. A box. Okay. Some club where sounds are pre-recorded. A nameless body in a house. Miniature old people. Oh look, a cowboy . . ."


Quote:
More movies should fuck me up emotionally like MD did. Don`t take me wrong, I love movies with great plot and story behind them,
You said it best, Xipe. "I love movies with great plot and story". I do. That's why I found Drive a waste. Though again, the score, direction, and acting were all top-of-the-line.
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  #16  
Old 05-10-2004, 02:46 PM
An incredible filmmaking experience. A nightmare in dreams and psychosis caught on film. Possibly Lynchs finest work. 9/10
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  #17  
Old 05-10-2004, 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Joshmo
An incredible filmmaking experience. A nightmare in dreams and psychosis caught on film. Possibly Lynchs finest work. 9/10
Now there's a mouth full.
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  #18  
Old 05-10-2004, 09:45 PM
Quote:
Now there's a mouth full.

*high-fives evil*



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  #19  
Old 05-10-2004, 11:40 PM
Lynch is the coolest director ever, period. And, unlike most others, he seems to be only getting better with age. Great flick.****



Spoilers:
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The meaning to the flick(in my interpritation anyway): If you real life is shit. Your dreams will be beautiful. Sounds like most of the relationships I've had.

Last edited by Hans, wihout Franz; 05-10-2004 at 11:45 PM..
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  #20  
Old 05-12-2004, 08:50 PM
I couldn't enjoy this movie because I had no clue what was going on. I still have no clue what the novie is about. One minute there is a chick cheating on her husband with a wite trash mullet dude, then a chick is crying as she masturbates, then theres a freaky dude behind the store, then a dude kills loads of people witha silenced pistol, then there are some kickass lesbian scenes, etc etc. Halfway through the movie I was lost and just waited for the credits.

But I did enjoy a few things. Namely the theater scene, the lesbian scenes, and the scene whwere the dude shoots one person, then has everything go wrong.

These were the only 3-4 scenes I was actually sucked in the movie. The rest was boring.
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  #21  
Old 06-10-2004, 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Hans, wihout Franz

Spoilers:
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The meaning to the flick(in my interpritation anyway): If you real life is shit. Your dreams will be beautiful.
In a nutshell, You nailed it!!!

Now, all you have to do is look under my Screen name to see this is my favorite movie off all time. With every Lynch film people either love or hate his stuff... very rarely do you run across a person (that actually knows his work) say he average, it's either "I love him" or "Ihate him/ I don't get him therefore I don't like him".

So you can see how it cuts me deep to see anybody take pot shots at a movie I think is absolutly flawless. So if I may take a cheap shot at your Favorite Movie C-Des... 8MM is your typical Hollywood, somebody get's hurt/dies, so we need to find the bad guy, near the end have a big fight between the good guy and bad guy, good guy wins, happy ending, and roll credits. Ok, now that my childish "I know you are but what am I" come back is out of the way, let me continue...

Every thing that happens in the movie is explained at some point of the movie, some may be to your own intereptation but it is all there. It just isn't layed out to you as pretty and as perfect as you would like it to be. In a sense C-Des is right, it's a puzzle, and if you actually take the time to look into it and figure it out, it's then, most will realize what a gem this film is. This is a nice mystery but, it is also so much deeper than that, it's a love afair gone ary, It's back stabbing, it's a dream crushed, it's a women at her lowest point of her life, a girl who's dreams and love are all lost and crushed in one fell swoop.


I wouldn't be the movie fan that I am if it wasn't for David Lynch... and in my opnion this is the best of his work.

I'm surprised that Damned Martian or DarkLamb haven't chimed in on this one.
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  #22  
Old 06-11-2004, 03:11 AM
Quote:
So you can see how it cuts me deep to see anybody take pot shots at a movie I think is absolutly flawless. So if I may take a cheap shot at your Favorite Movie C-Des... 8MM is your typical Hollywood, somebody get's hurt/dies, so we need to find the bad guy, near the end have a big fight between the good guy and bad guy, good guy wins, happy ending, and roll credits.
You know, I want to mention Adaptation for one second. If you've seen the movie, remember how they basically took a shot at hollywood for their standard whiz-bang endings, where people find revelations, are killed, well . . . where huge things happen (they did this by 'switching' how adaptation was told, they suddenly threw all these revelations and climaxes into the finale). Of course, they failed miserably at that because adaptation didn't lead up to any epic climax, so when the movie forces one, instead of reflecting negetively on this hollywood idea of a finale, it reflects on it positively. It shows that it takes a lot of work to naturally build up to an amazing finale.
And if you've never seen adaptation ignore what I just said, I doubt it'll make sense.

Anyways, I think 8mm is by and by a far more brilliant movie than Drive. Was there a battle between one guy and the other in 8mm? Sure. Could you call them the 'good guy' and 'bad guy'? Sure. Though I doubt the ending is all jolly.
But to create a story that wraps up naturally and with a "happy" ending (keep in mind this only pretains if it's natural) is FAR more difficult than a bad ending. Trust me on this one. Creativity, it's so easy to just have the bad guy win because generally they have the advantage.
But that's beside the point. Sorry, I kind of went off topic. Anyways--
Mulholland Drive is a mess of a movie, at least initially. Can you figure it out? I guess, after hours of digging, re-watches, etc. etc. And obviously a lot of people enjoy that. But - again - it's a lot more difficult to create a movie that can be understood on one watch, is powerful, inspires thought, etc., etc., then just an incoherent film that people have to work to understand (I'm sure you understand it now, but remember when you FIRST saw it? Yeah). Movies like Drive are incredibly easy to create, believe it or not. There's just not much to blowing a story into a scatter-shot of symbolism and whatever else Lynch stuck in there. It doesn't impress me. It's much harder to create a coherent piece. And as a coherent piece, that's only seen once, Drive will not emotionally involve the viewer, or anything, really, except for confuse them. I don't care if you can eventually get it.
So like I said, for what it is - a nice jigsaw puzzle - Drive is great. For what it isn't it . . . well . . .

Last edited by C-Desecration-; 06-11-2004 at 03:15 AM..
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  #23  
Old 06-11-2004, 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by C-Desecration-
Anyways, I think 8mm is by and by a far more brilliant movie than Drive.But - again - it's a lot more difficult to create a movie that can be understood on one watch, is powerful, inspires thought, etc., etc., then just an incoherent film that people have to work to understand (I'm sure you understand it now, but remember when you FIRST saw it? Yeah). Movies like Drive are incredibly easy to create, believe it or not. There's just not much to blowing a story into a scatter-shot of symbolism and whatever else Lynch stuck in there. It doesn't impress me. It's much harder to create a coherent piece. And as a coherent piece, that's only seen once, Drive will not emotionally involve the viewer, or anything, really, except for confuse them. I don't care if you can eventually get it.
Sorry, but no. No, no, no. Making a movie like Drive is not an easy task buddy.

It has an intricate story, it all has a meaning...the fact that you didnt understand it, doesnt mean that it was easy to make.

Its not just a bunch of images thrown in there randomly "scatter-shot" like you say. Every scene has a purpose a meaning. That it doesnt spell out things to you in an easy to understand a-b-c sort of way is one thing...but to say that a movie like Mullholland Dr. is easy to make because to you it didnt make sense....makes no sense.

And I personally think that its easier to make a by the numbers movie that will be easier to understand in my opinion. To try and show something new, fresh and different now theres a task. And Mullholland Dr. did that.

On my first viewing, this movie grabbed me. Shook me emotionally and I was instantly compelled to see it many times over. Id rather have a movie that does that to me, then see a movie thats forgettable or a movie that I wont care to see more then once. To say that Mullholand Dr. doesnt involve the viewer is just simply not true. Just because it didnt impress you or you didnt understand it on your first viewing doesnt mean it wasnt moving.

Even though I was a confused upon my first viewing I was moved non the less. This movie is powerful in more ways then one.
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  #24  
Old 06-11-2004, 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by C-Desecration-
There's just not much to blowing a story into a scatter-shot of symbolism and whatever else Lynch stuck in there.
Boy oh Boy where do I start?

I can see how some spoon fed movie goers might look at this as a "SCATTER-SHOT"

Quote:
Originally posted by Misery
One minute there is a chick cheating on her husband with a wite trash mullet dude, then a chick is crying as she masturbates, then theres a freaky dude behind the store, then a dude kills loads of people witha silenced pistol, then there are some kickass lesbian scenes, etc etc. Halfway through the movie I was lost and just waited for the credits.
On first view, one might say... "what where with these scenes??? Not till you think about it and maybe view it a second or third time will you say "Holy shit, that's what that scene was all about. BRILIANT!"

Quote:
Originally posted by C-Desecration-
It's much harder to create a coherent piece. And as a coherent piece, that's only seen once, Drive will not emotionally involve the viewer, or anything, really, except for confuse them. . .
There is another thing I could understand for people who want to go into a movie and be satidfied by just one viewing. I on the other hand like a challenge, I wanted to see what was with all the beauty, the horror and all the emotion.

And let me asure you, there is a lot of emotion in this movie. For the love of God man, you see a women pushed to the edge of suicide.

I wish I could takle each issue at a time but, that would take all day. This is a movie that can be debated over for a very long time. Just go to Amazon's reviews, there's like 1,000 written, and it's full of people that either Don't get it, which mean they HATED it... or people who adore it...

I'm not trying to turn anybody who hated this movie's opnion around, I just think it's a shame that they can't apprciate how great it really is, all because it's not layed out 1,2,3 for them, don't search deeper into it, or are just to feeble minded to understand it. But then again I guess that's why they make movies like "SOUL PLANE, HONEY, and YOU GOT SERVED"

P.S. some may messure how good a movie is by it's "re-watchable" value... and this movie is all about watching it multiple times, and every time you watch it, you see something you didn't see before... Absolutly Briliant!

Last edited by lynchfan_714; 06-11-2004 at 01:44 PM..
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  #25  
Old 06-11-2004, 05:46 PM
Quote:
Even though I was a confused upon my first viewing I was moved non the less. This movie is powerful in more ways then one.
Oh, that's a fundamental disagreement right there.

And space, lynch, I'm not saying the movie makes no sense. I'm talking about this from a flat perspective. I've talked to X-Nightcrawler- about it, and the guy gets it ALL. Total fan of the movie. And, therefore, I'm starting to get a lot of it whenever he spills little info about what means what.
And, of course, reading the responses.
But space, to create a movie like this, whether EVERY scene means something or not, BELIEVE ME, isn't hard to do. Symbolism is easy to work with. So, in fact, is the idea of ambiguity. This is why I don't really care for mindfucks, because for a creative writer/scripter, they're about as easy to pull off as getting out of bed in the morning.
"Man goes to the store and something happens there."
Now, trying to think of what could happen, how to play it, is difficult.
"Man goes to store and something happens there . . . but he's really just dreaming about a happy life cause' his real one's shit! Notice how everyone greets him! The people in line - if you look closely - don't even pay the cashier for their food! Everything's in stock! The lights are brighter and his eyes - which throughout the "normal" world of the movie are always dipped in shadows - are filled with light."
Now those were overblown examples, BUT, the second is impossibly easy to do, to create. It's all very simple.

And let's not have anyone say something like "oh, I don't want to start fighting. That's your opinion." We aren't going to get in a slapping match here. It'll stay civil. Because it's interesting to talk about this particular stuff on this board, when discussions like this probably wouldn't work much in real-life unless you know a Drive enthusiast.
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  #26  
Old 06-11-2004, 06:12 PM
Who's wanting to start a fight?

As far as I know, it was civil.


now with that said.

Here might be a completly different way to look at this movie. Think of it as THE WIZARD OF OZ. The meat of the movie is all a dream and when Diane wakes up you can see that "you where there, and you where there, and you where there" but in MD it's reversed from Dorothy's experiance in W.O.Z... Diane's real life is what is horrible and it was her dream that was pretty.

The Movie jumps around quit a bit, from past to present, once she wakes from her dream... So it is hard to keep up.

C-Des, You said nightcrawler has cleared some things up for you, so from one shmoe to another... Try to give MD one more chance now that you have some questions answered. You might be pleasantly surprised with what you discover.

Last edited by lynchfan_714; 06-11-2004 at 06:15 PM..
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  #27  
Old 06-12-2004, 03:13 PM
Quote:
Who's wanting to start a fight?

No one. But occasionally people seem to think that if two people disagree and discuss that, it's fighting. I was just trying to clarify things a bit.

Now it's very likely that I could have the thing laid out for me, or at least fully explained, watch it, and go "wow". In fact, that's pretty likely. I'm just talking about this from a first-time experience, as in the fact that I personally believe it's much harder to weave an understandable story (remember, on your first watch) then go all . . . well, whatever Drive did. The concept behind this is actually pretty good, and the plot, if understood, could be just fantastic. Great idea on lynch's part. But it would've been MUCH harder for him to present the idea in a cohesive matter, I think. Now keep in mind it still could've been pretty ambiguous, just not so much so.
I just think what Lynch did with Drive isn't very difficult. I mean if someone pitched you the concept for a film like Drive, and you presented it like Lynch did, I think that's the lazy route. Oh sure, some people say it's aristic, moreso, and they're right. But being artistic is easier than being real. And personally I prefer more of a mixture than one (totally real) or the other (totally artsy). Oh, and by the way, when I say "artistic" and "real", those are just the only words I can think of right now. Hopefully you get what I mean . . .
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  #28  
Old 06-13-2004, 05:16 PM
I'm siding with C-Des. This is the type of film you make when you're just starting out. Why? Because it's easy. A few years back in Creative Writing class, I wrote a minimalist script with a few friends. It was filled to the brim with visual metaphors, are-they-real-or-aren't-they characters, and is-he-dreaming-or-not scenes. Regrettably, we never filmed it, but I wish we would have. It didn't require a budget, and we could have called it an intricate, cerebral masterpiece. It's harder to write conventional scripts that still manage to engross the reader/viewer. You have to rely on natural dialogue and believable characters. Something akin to Mulholland Drive gives you license to do anything you want.
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  #29  
Old 06-13-2004, 05:20 PM
I should state that I enjoy mindfucks; I just didn't like this one. And no, I won't be watching Soul Plane or You Got Served anytime soon.
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  #30  
Old 06-14-2004, 10:54 AM
I still dont think its easy to make a movie like Mullholand. I mean yeah, its dream like, its a puzzle, but at the end of the day, it still has to make sense. It might take you longer then usual to "get it" but you will.

I think that to make a puzzle that when looked at from the right angle makes sense is not an easy task. In fact, Id say it takes more planning then a regular by the numbers film.
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  #31  
Old 06-14-2004, 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by spacemonkey
I still dont think its easy to make a movie like Mullholand. I mean yeah, its dream like, its a puzzle, but at the end of the day, it still has to make sense. It might take you longer then usual to "get it" but you will.

I think that to make a puzzle that when looked at from the right angle makes sense is not an easy task. In fact, Id say it takes more planning then a regular by the numbers film.
Agreed. Some things in this movie CAN'T be coincidence (SoS anyone??) and that only clues how much Lynch put into making it.
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  #32  
Old 06-14-2004, 02:03 PM
This doesn't take more planning, space. Lynch got carte blanch. Did he have to think some things over? Sure. But unless you're in the fields of either writing stories or screenplays, I'm not sure you can understand how easy these things are to weave.

You'll just have to trust me on this, space.
. . . oh, that reminds me: space is just a reflection of our emptiness. Happy people see the stars twinkle. Sad people see them fade.
Wow, how exestential!
Took me two seconds.
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  #33  
Old 06-14-2004, 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by C-Desecration-
This doesn't take more planning, space. Lynch got carte blanch. Did he have to think some things over? Sure. But unless you're in the fields of either writing stories or screenplays, I'm not sure you can understand how easy these things are to weave.

You'll just have to trust me on this, space.
. . . oh, that reminds me: space is just a reflection of our emptiness. Happy people see the stars twinkle. Sad people see them fade.
Wow, how exestential!
Took me two seconds.
It cracks me up how easy you think a movie like MD is to make. And how movies like 8MM are much better because they are "Cohernt" ... Any fool can write a movie like 8MM... (By no means am I saying 8MM was a bad movie) All you do is follow the main guide lines.

1) Establish a problem
2) Look for a solution
3) experiance conflict
4) Find solution
5) Happy ending

You see Lynch could have made a straight forward movie (Straight Story) and please the feeble minded masses but, he chooses to throw in his own way, his own vision if you will, that doesn't always come over with everybody. You think MD is nothing but a bunch of weird scenes thrown together, not ment to make sense, just to look cool. You couldn't be further off if you tried.

Let me break it down for you in A,B,C fashion so you can understand it.

****SPOILER****

1) Diane wins June bug contest... want to take a shot as a Hollywood Actress...

2) Moves out to Diane moves to Hollywood where she meets and falls in love with Camilla on a movie set.

3) The two girls get chumy and start a relationship.

4) Camilla starts to bone a director in order to get ahead in the bussiness.

5) Camilla breaks up with Diane, breaking Diane's heart, and treats her like shit.

6) Diane is so angered by this she hires a hit man to kill Camilla.

7) the end

****SPOILER OVER*****

Now that is basically your movie in a standard boring Hollywood world. Boring huh? (Now don't you dare go turn this around and say "See even you said yourself the movie is boring)

If Lynch where to format it ths way, we would not have seen so many beatiful scenes and mystery like Aunt Ruth, Club Selincio, and the mocking of Hollywood. Just to name a few.

I realize you don't get this movie, and you where probably pissed off once the movie was over because you feel llike you waisted 2 1/2 hours off you time.

For that, I'm sorry but, your missing something great.

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  #34  
Old 06-14-2004, 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by C-Desecration-
But unless you're in the fields of either writing stories or screenplays, I'm not sure you can understand how easy these things are to weave.
For the record, I've actually written a screen play and my main influence is David Lynch and I didn't find it to be easy.

But to stick to the 8MM and MD comparison... A Movie like 8MM can be written in a weekend. It's the type of movie we have seen 100 times over again.
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  #35  
Old 06-14-2004, 04:15 PM
I think Im going to side with Lynchfan on this one, same thing happened with 21 Grams, if it was told in an ABC manner, then the movie would have been as special.

Essentially Mullholand Drive is an A-B-C story told in a non cronological order. Like 21 Grams, if we were to rearange the film around in a cronological order in an abc fashion then the movie wouldnt be the puzzle that it is.

I personally prefer having to go through the trouble of figuring it out.

Last edited by spacemonkey; 06-14-2004 at 04:22 PM..
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  #36  
Old 06-14-2004, 04:56 PM
Quote:
Let me break it down for you in A,B,C fashion so you can understand it.

. . . uh, okay, that's great and all, but you're missing my point.
These "artistic" touches lynch puts into Drive ARE ARTISTIC! Moreso than 8mm. Moreso than Fight Club. Moreso than Waking the Dead.
So Drive is more artistic than my three favorite movies.
But (here I go) . . .

When all is said and done, Drive is a mind-fuck. And I think it's a lazy one. Why? Because it doesn't allow a person to understand anything, really, on the first viewing. It requires discussion, re-watches, etc., etc.
I think that's a cop-out. Just my opinion. Screenwriters can be perfectly ambiguous while still presenting their story in a way that many people can grasp. And guess what? It's TOUGH to do that. It's tough to make people understand without relying on the few who'll really dig into the movie.
Here, try this, okay . . . let's say there's a concept with some fantastical disorder, whatever, let's make this as simple as possible: the main character can't seperate his/her mind from his/her body. This person basically sees everything as symbolism. This person's mind doesn't let then distuinguish their reality from their feelings.
Now. With that concept, honestly, it wouldn't be hard to craft some extremely artistic film. It'd actually be very, very easy. You could practically do it with the snap of your fingers.
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  #37  
Old 06-14-2004, 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by C-Desecration-
When all is said and done, Drive is a mind-fuck. And I think it's a lazy one. Why? Because it doesn't allow a person to understand anything, really, on the first viewing. It requires discussion, re-watches, etc., etc.
Uh C-des, I hate to break it to you but thats exactly what a mind-fuck is supposed to do. Fuck with your mind. Donnie Darkos a mind fuck, and you defenetly had to see that one more then once.

Basically what Im saying is that your complaining about Mullholand Drive being hard to understand...but hey thats what a mindfuck is supposed to do!
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  #38  
Old 06-14-2004, 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by C-Desecration-
When all is said and done, Drive is a mind-fuck. And I think it's a lazy one. Why? Because it doesn't allow a person to understand anything, really, on the first viewing. It requires discussion, re-watches, etc., etc.
Ok, I agree with you. But that doesn't mean it's a bad movie.

After watching a movie, I like to have a discusiion on it. After a movie like MD, you can talk about it for hours on in. "Did the blue box represent?"... "What did the guy behind Winkies represent?"... "What was club silencio all about?"... Which makes the movie that much more enjoyable because you can talk about it, try to figure it out... This is the type of movie that leaves a lasting impression on you.

Now after a movie like 8MM for exapmle. You can talk about it for maybe 5 minutes or so and you move on, you don't think about it when you go to sleep, you don't discusse the orginality of it...

Again it's apples and oranges here...


Quote:
Originally posted by C-Desecration-
Here, try this, okay . . . let's say there's a concept with some fantastical disorder, whatever, let's make this as simple as possible: the main character can't seperate his/her mind from his/her body. This person basically sees everything as symbolism. This person's mind doesn't let then distuinguish their reality from their feelings.
Now. With that concept, honestly, it wouldn't be hard to craft some extremely artistic film. It'd actually be very, very easy. You could practically do it with the snap of your fingers.
Yes, you could do it at the snap of the finger but, how many could actually pull it off like Lynch did with MD... I've seen a lot of artsy fartsy movies that fall well short of what we see in MD...

Anybody can take a scenario and twist it anyway they want... Throw in some beuatiful colors and scenery and BANG you have a cult classic right? No, I don't think so. It takes cleverness, creativity, and smarts to pull something like MD off.

Now if I may offer up a scenario that could easily be made into a movie in your basic A, B, C format...

A man comes home to find is entire family is slayed in a bloody brutual way. He is framed and is sentenced to death in a years time. When he goes to jail he finds out through a fellow inmate the real killer. So he tells his frinda and autorney to look into it, throw in a few UNBELIABLE/NEVER HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE fight scenes between friends, a confession by the real killer in front of a judge at gun point, and the man get's set free.

How many times have we seen something along those lines? about a million right? Yet these movies still get Oscar nominees (Training Day) and are touted as GREAT Movies all while truely great movies like Memento gets beat by the putride Gosford park for best screen play... It's a joke.

Some crap that gets fed to us is so BLAH... Lynch is a breath of fresh air to those who want something more out of there movie viewing.

Last edited by lynchfan_714; 06-14-2004 at 05:35 PM..
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  #39  
Old 06-14-2004, 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by spacemonkey
Donnie Darkos a mind fuck, and you defenetly had to see that one more then once.
I've seen Donnie Darko once to date, and I loved it. It gave me enough to go on while introducing a wealth of empathetic, well-rounded characters at the same time. The trick is confusing and enrapturing the viewer simultaneously. I wasn't the least bit immersed in Mulholland Drive. I still say that it's harder to make a good by-the-numbers film than it is to make an abstract, conceptual piece. I'd compare it to experimental music. It's easier to record random noise (with the hidden meanings to be added later) than it is to write within the conventions of a regulated formula. How does one hold the listener's attention while adhering to the rules of standard pop music? It's no easy task.
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  #40  
Old 06-15-2004, 08:02 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by countchocula
I'd compare it to experimental music. It's easier to record random noise (with the hidden meanings to be added later) than it is to write within the conventions of a regulated formula. How does one hold the listener's attention while adhering to the rules of standard pop music? It's no easy task.
So by that logic your saying that its harder to write a good pop song, then to come up with something fresh and new musicaly? Uh, Im sure that many musicians will tell you other wise. Ive many musicians and rock stars say that they can write a pop song with their eyes closed. Its not a hard task to do something that will please the masses and then after a few months fade away.

Its harder to do something fresh and new, thats not necesarily commericial, and that not everybody will like. But will certainly leave a lasting impression on those who do appreciate something new and original.

Mullholland drive was not random images of film and didnt have a random story. It all makes sense when looked at from the correct perspective.
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