TIME GOES BY...

[Potzer! 37]

So I joined this site and this entire forum becaue I thought I might want to write some movies. Maybe you guys might remember a few scripts I have posted like the Trix Rabbit fucked up one or the Pulp Fitcion like one about two guys on their way to work.

Anyway, I haven't posted in this section for about a year I guess...something like that. Most of the comments were about structure and not substance and that bothered me but at the same time I learned how important the format is for an agent or producer to follow the script and every time I write something in script format i remind myself to follow what is a strict format so thanks for that.

I guess I just wanted to try out my own shit and write for my self or something I dunno but I havn't been back for awhile. I shot that Pulp Fiction style one for a my friends for their retarded film class because they loved the script. Looks like crap on the home video camera, but the script still stands and the direction is coherent in it. I have made progress. I've got like four scripts that friends have read and are willing to shoot but their lack of intrest and passion and other shit they have to do has limited me. So any adivce on how to make a movie without a cast will be helpful.

Biggest news is that my best and most serious script that is full lenght (1 or four full length all the other are smaller) has been handed over to The Robert Rodriguez by a firend of mine. My Assistant Principal at school read it and gave it to his father. If any of you have the DVD for the extended SIN CITY then watch the cars featurette and check out the guy with the Rangers hat named Evans. My High School is the Smithson Valley Rangers. That's my AP's father...he's now collecting the cars for Grind House and he's giving it to Robert.

Should I get my hopes up or what?

That's my recap of independant shit i've done. Any words of encouragement will be accepted.

Oh I also sent the script to the Austin Film Festival

Um...if you like want to tell me that Robert won't read it or that it won't go any where then you don't need to post. I've got the realistic and pessismestic ideals planted firmly in my head. I'd really like the optomistic might be a shot at it kind of post though. I hope that he'll read it and like it, but he might produce it I guess or ...shit i don't really know...

[Mari]

Congratz that sounds really cool. Are you gonna post something here for us to read?

As for getting your hopes up, sure why not just don't get the to high up. As you say be realistic about it, but there's never something wrong with hoping.

Mari

[Ronaldinho]

The way this sort of thing works is that your AP gives it to Rodriguez, who gives it to a reader at his company. He reads the coverage, and if it's positive and sounds like the sort of thing he's interested in, maybe he reads it.

Now, of course, isn't RR working in pre-pro for Grind House right now? In other words ...

Do you think he has a) a lot of time to read random scripts b) a little time to read random scripts or c) no time to read random scripts.

I'm not going to tell you not to get your hopes up. I am going to tell you that from my own experience, with random scripts coming over the transom, it can takes a year for anybody to actually get around to reading it. So this is the important thing:

Don't stop doing whatever it is you're doing.

Your phone may ring sometime in the next year because of this, and it may not. The point is, however, that if you sit around waiting for it to ring, you're wasting time. So you've sent it off. Forget about it.

Start working on something else, or, if you're pushing the marketting, keep marketting to other people.

[Potzer! 37]

Thanks you for the posts and keep them coming. The thing about Robert not reading getting the script is this...The Car Guy isn't giving it to the company...he's handing it directly to Robert...maybe I don't understand that whole thing about company script readers, but you're right he is pretty busy I'm sure...

Oh and here's the opening of the script in question. It's a monolouge by the main character ALA Annie Hall

FADE IN TO BLACK-WHITE TITLES PLAY

VOICE
Let me tell you a story.

TITLES STOP-

FADE IN- INT-FIREPLACE AND CHAIR

We see KIP sitting alone in an arm chair, legs crossed. He speaks to the audience.

KIP NARRATOR
When facing a problem, how long should one wait before breaking
down and dealing with it? This is a question that has plagued mankind
since the beginning of time. And it plagued God before that. You see,
God was bored. So he decided that he would create the universe, an act for which I am very grateful. But how long do you suppose God waited before finally saying, “Fuck it, I’ll create existence.”? I’m sure that’s what he said. That or something like it. Because even the most rudimentary tasks are put off until the last second. Shit, I’d rather be thirsty all day than get up and walk my ass three feet to the faucet. So when God finally made that decision, I wonder how long it took him to create us. Yeah I know the whole seven days thing, but come on, the bible is a book created by men for men. We can’t even decipher Egyptian correctly one 100 percent of the time, and you’re telling me that there wasn’t something lost in the translation of the word of God to mortals? Bullshit. Personally I think that the human race is a big fuckin burden that God didn’t need. I mean he put us off till last for a reason. He had to prepare himself for all the shit we were gonna put him through. And if God would rather create heaven, earth, water, light, and animals before us, then you know he wasn’t looking forward to it. And why should he? We don’t listen. We can’t even eat the stuff he tells us to eat. We gotta eat the one thing that he was like, “Don’t fuckin touch, mortal fools”. People still aren’t eating what God provided for them. Their called vegetarians. Because God didn’t make animals for us to look at or keep as pets. We’re supposed to fucking eat them. That’s it, nothing else. But do we listen to what he has to say? Of course not. And even with all the shit in the world God did his damnedest to ignore it. Again, how long do you wait to fix the shit your in? Noah was at least 600 when God was like, “That’s it, have a fuckin drink”. From around day one we ignored his ass and then he waited to destroy us for a long time. Moses, Job, Abraham, and thousands more came and went, and still he waited. Now if even God has to put stuff off, how long should we wait? If a kid is cheating on a test, how long do teachers wait before failing him? If a husband is cheating on a wife, how long before he decides to leave? How long? That is the question of life. It’s not the one about the tree in the woods. It’s not the one about the glass of water. And it most defiantly isn’t the one about Coke and Pepsi. How long do you put up with something? Because we always do. Even if it hurts us, our friends, and our family, we prolong the decision to face it. I’d like to think that when the time comes, we’ll know it but that’s bullshit. We never know anything. We can assume. We can guess. We can use every fact check and resource available but we’ll still never know. I Know…well, at least I think… that God is up there right now debating whether or not to get off his ass and wipe our insignificant little existence out of the universe. I hope he waits a little longer, because like I said before, I’ve got a story to tell. But if the time should come and he finally decides to wipe the board and start fresh, I hope we’ll all go out with our own little problems solved, or at least confronted. But you never know, do you? Anyway, I’d like to think that the following tales of my high school misadventures help to clear a few things up.

[Ronaldinho]

"Thanks you for the posts and keep them coming. The thing about Robert not reading getting the script is this...The Car Guy isn't giving it to the company...he's handing it directly to Robert"

This doesn't matter.

Trust me. Robert does not read things just because people hand them to him personally. People in his position only read things which are vetted by (at least) his assistant, if not another reader at a company first.

Being "the guy who gets the cars" doesn't mean the director is going to read what you give him.

This doesn't mean you haven't jumped up in the line a bit. You probably couldn't get a read at RR's production company otherwise.

I'm not trying to be discouraging here. A friend of mine likes to tell the story of, how after he was working at a company for a while, the bigwig would periodically show up and drop a script on his desk personally. At first he was excited - "this must be something big," he thought. "And the BigWig wants my opinion." Then he started to have doubts because these scripts were pretty bad. Finally he figured it out: these were scripts which people the BigWig knew had given to him personally outside the normal channels. The BigWig was dumping them back into the coverage chain.

This is pretty standard behavior. If the script is good enough, it will move up the ladder. If it's not, RR will skim the coverage enough to say a few nice things to the AP's dad, and that'll be the end of it.

[XvoorheesX]

Robert Rodriguez is a busy guy. He's got a movie nearing production, he runs his own prodco, he's got several other projects in development. And, IIRC, he's in the midst of a nasty divorce. He probably doesn't have all that time for reading scripts.

But let's say he does have some time. First, there's all the scripts that his industry buddies are working on. I'm sure Eli Roth is going to send him a draft of 'Cell' whenever that's done. There's all the scripts that producers and executives are sending him to cocsider.

It's not like anybody working in Hollywood reads scripts to relive bordom. So even if he does get the script handed to him in person, it's not that far from getting junkmail. He doesn't know this guy personally, and he certainly doesn't know you personally, so there's really not a whole lot of initiative for him to read it.

And like Ron, I'm not trying to be discouraging. You're leaps and bounds ahead of where I'm at right now. But you need to be realistic. Is it impossible for him to read your script? Of course not. But that doesn't mean you should sit back and wait for the offers to come rolling in. Get to work on another script, and if something good will happen, it will, but it's out of your hands.

[Cyd V]

Robert did direct a flick inked by his 10 year old son, so anythings possible, but then again the flick was Sharkboy and Lavagirl and is considered by many, including myself, to be the worst movie ever made, and has probably learned by now to chose what he directs a little more wisely. If I was you I'd kill any illussion you have of him directing your script and move on.

[Potzer! 37]

Again thank you for the posts! I am writing lots of different things and I plan to shoot a small feature with my friends this summer starting production in a week or so. Did you guys like the monolouge? As most of the comments so far have been about the quality of the script, I'de very much like to hear some thoughts on the opening. I dig the hell out of my script and If I could post all 93 page of it I would...but the thingy won't let me. Um the monolouge itself is actually a third version...the first two didn't really fit in with it. Anyway if you could tell me what you think I'd be happy and if you wanna give it a read I guess I could e-mail it to you...but id that kind of thing cool? It's not copyrighted or anything...should I just hold onto it? Give me thoughts on that as well.

Um...XvoorheesX...if you don't mind...I've always dug you comments and stuff and you seem very knowledgeable on film and writing in gereral...how am I ahead of you? I'm only 17 but I decided like a year ago that I was gonna be a filmmaker and that was that for me. Nothing else really matters other than family and life and that whole maslow table of needs thing. Where are you at with your career if that's what it is?

EDIT-Oh and I forgot...Robert does know "the car guy" personally. I don't know his name, because i've never met him, but yeah Robert my AP Mr. Evans and his father are all buds with a history of like three films at least I think. They've all met and talked enough to know each other well. Case in point would be all the shit from the set of Sin City that Evans recived to show off to us film geeks. Real production photos, script signed by the cast, and Mr. Evans has met the man and spoken with him enough to be concidered personnal and his father the actual transportation guy for the films knows him even better. This is all a personnal relationship with me kind of trying to milk if for all it's worth...

ANOTHER EDIT-I WANT TO DIRECT MY SCRIPT...NOT ROBERT. I need him to do whatever he can to make that happen even if it's just some encouragement. The big pie in th esky, million to one chance, dream come true, would be if he executive produced it and let me direct it kind of like Kevin Smith helped BEn And MAtt do for Good Will Hunting..except they didn't direct it. But yeah...I have to direct it, it's to personal...if I have no choice I'll give it up and let someone else do it, but only if I have no other choice save for another 17 years of waiting to hit it big.

[XvoorheesX]

Um...XvoorheesX...if you don't mind...I've always dug you comments and stuff and you seem very knowledgeable on film and writing in gereral...how am I ahead of you? I'm only 17 but I decided like a year ago that I was gonna be a filmmaker and that was that for me. Nothing else really matters other than family and life and that whole maslow table of needs thing. Where are you at with your career if that's what it is?

My screenwriting career is virtually non-existant. I'm a college student, working as a waiter, living (literally) as far away from L.A as possible for a North American. (If I look out my window now, I could see the Atlantic Ocean).

I've been writing for five or six years, I've had a couple of short films produced, but that's about it. I have a couple of long-shot contacts who probably don't even remember me, and a friend in the comic industry who is working to help me turn one of my scripts into a graphic novel at a c-list comic publisher, but that's about it.

If somebody was giving my script to somebody to somebody else who was actually in Hollywood and capable of starting a career (what you have going on with Robert Rodriguez), I'd be jumping for joy.

But since I'm not, I can only offer you congratulations and tell you to keep at it.

[Potzer! 37]

That comic thing is really cool man. I've thought about that but have NOONE to talk to abou it so.....did you or anybody else for that matter like the monolouge? I'm sill very interested in your comments.

Oh and I am jumping for joy....you know that christmas eve can't sleep thing...yeah, 24/7 sine I gave the script up......i'm going fuckin nuts, but still trying to be productive hence the whole short film over the summer project.

Does anybody know how to link a video into the thread like the guy with with the short film above (Or below I guess) did? Cause I have a crappy shot film that I know sucks but still want comments on...how do I do what he did?

[Potzer! 37]

Is the monolouge really that bad?...

[Ronaldinho]

My point is that Mr. Evans knowing Robert personally is irrelevent.

Probably the only people RR (if he's like most people in his position in Hollywood) would read without being "going through channels" are:

a) Drafts of stuff they've commissioned (sometimes)

b) Drafts of scripts by professional-screenwriter friends. (Quentin sends him a script, he's going to read it.)

c) His wife.

d) His kids.

That's it. Seriously. If Mr. Evans gave him a script Mr. Evans wrote ... it's go through channels. If RR's son-in-law wants him to read a script ... it's going to go through channels. If RR's best friend from high school who he hasn't spoken to in five years gives him a script ... it's going to go through channels. To say nothing of a script a student of Mr. Evans' son.

I'm not trying to be harsh on you here, but you need to be realistic. You need to understand that there are probably 200 people who work as closely as Mr. Evans with RR does - if not more. Probably a third of these people consider themselves writers. 99% know people who consider themselves writers. 100% know people who know people who consider themselves writers.

So relax. Take a deep breath. FORGET ABOUT IT for now.Seriously - forget that you ever sent RR a script. That way you'll be pleasantly surprised if the phone rings.

[Potzer! 37]

yeah...but what about the monolouge...?

[NobodySpecial]

Well, I would say the monologue needs work. Incidentally, this is one reason you don't want to give material to people before it's ready.

We see KIP sitting alone in an arm chair, legs crossed. He speaks to the audience.

What time of day is this? What does Kip look like? What is he wearing? What mood is he in? Where exactly is this? These are all important question that need to be answered to properly paint the scene. In the case of Annie Hall, we have a context for the opening scene (stand up) and we know it's going to be Woody Allen so that tells us a lot about what to expect. The picture is clear in our heads.

Start reading the monologue with the following descriptions inserted at the top in place of the original one --

KIP, a scruffy looking 18 year old, sits in a chair in his family room, legs crossed. He speaks defiantly --

or

KIP, 35, in dress shirt, black pants, and half undone tie sits alone in the back of a bar, well past last call. He finishes off his last shot of rum and laughs to himself before he speaks --

or

KIP, 25, shirtless and somber, sits alone in an empty house, legs crossed. He thinks hard before he speaks softly --

Those are three completely different beasts. The dialogue is going to read completely differently in each context. The first and last example I gave take place in the same basic setting, but hopefully you read the last one in a much darker, colder way than the first. And keep in mind I'm a shitty writer.

While I don't advocate spending paragraphs upon paragraphs of descriptions, you do need to set up your scenes visually, especially when the scene is the opening, and even more so when it's the presentation of (I assume) your protagonist.

Now, regarding the dialogue itself, I think it runs too long. I noticed you did a alot of the following:

Because even the most rudimentary tasks are put off until the last second. Shit, I’d rather be thirsty all day than get up and walk my ass three feet to the faucet.

Excluding the fact that this really doesn't make any sense, the part I put in italics is an example given to support an assertion made by Kip. Well, the thing is that Kip is talking right to us, so he's automatically put into a position of power. He doesn't need to back up his assertions with evidence (such as it is). He says it, and it is. Lines like that can be cut.

The dialogue as a whole also doesn't make much sense. That is, everything leading up to the last line doesn't really mean much, and doesn't seem to have anything to do with the last line. Now, you might have done that one purpose, but 1) you take too long to get there, and 2) not knowing the context of this makes it very difficult to judge it's effectiveness. By #2 I mean imagine if Kip the 35 year old I described was delivering this dialogue. He's going on and on about God and about life and what not, and then ends with "let me tell you about high school..." That's kind of funny. I mean, the dialogue would still have to change, but it's something unexpected. However, if it's Kip the 18 year old then him mentioning high school is redundant (of course and 18 year old is going to talk about high school) and frankly it comes off more than a tad egomaniacal.

Ultimately I think you should start with start by really fleshing out this scene and then parring the dialogue down to at most 1/2 of what is there right now. Ideally less.

Good luck.

[Potzer! 37]

I'll give you the description thing, that is something I just didn't put in as I never thought to...He's either going to be a fifteen year old kid talking directly to the auidence or he's going to be a man in his late 20's talking to the auidence. As this kind of thing continues in the script I have yet to decide if the main character will narrate his own story or if he will look back on it. Either way I've given him the Godlike ability to narrate his life as it unfolds. As far as mood, well he's just telling a story. The narrator is a bit unemotional because he's looking back or rather he's cut out of the actual events that take place. He's a little bitter and he's trying to be funny and quick with his ideas and words.

He is basically in a neutral space like the Show Titus or like the opening of Annie Hall or even When Harry met Sally...just some random static space. The words are important here.

Now the line about walking three feet is supposed to be a joke...stupid little tasks are a big deal. To support this and make the auidence laugh, he says he'd rather be thirsty than walk to the sink. He's putting off his problem. Most of that kind of thing is humor...this is basically just an introduction to the movie where real issues like divorce, relationships, and religion are all going to be treated with an attitidue of humor. The theme of the film is dealing with your shit...the climatic scene in the script is Kip finally dealing with his shit that he's been avoiding all of his life...but the thing is the narrator (the guy giving the monolouge) is not the same person as the Kip that is the main character...possibly a bit confusing but hey on film it'll make more sense. This monolouge is really an intro that sets up the tone and introduces you to the theme and ideas of the script. The actual opening scene is a character history if you will where you meet Kip's family and find out about his past...I just post that underneath so you can see how it should play out.

I'm not editing it because the lenght and the time it takes to just say "My story should help with your problems" is kind of a realization of the idea presented. People avoid things in their lifes and Kip the narrator is doing the same thing right off the bat. Plus, Kip deals with shit by using humor as a defence and he is a bit long winded...all of what he says builds up and when you look back on it, it all helps the point and more than that most of it is funny except where i'ts supposed to be serious.

My apologies to any vegitarians out there...the joke just seemed to flow when I wrote it.

Ok so after "The following tales of my high school misadeventures..." the credits finish and the movie really starts. By the way I might cut that last line...it was the only thing I really liked in the first monolouge and I really want it to finish the scene but it does feel a bit out of place.

ANYWAY-----

INT- FIREPLACE AND CHAIR-SAME

Kip still sits in the chair, the same as before the titles. He takes a drink from a glass and continues his story.

KIP NARRATOR
Before My story really begins, I thought I should tell you a bit about myself, and
my family history, if you will. From here on in, just to get rid of
any confusion, when you see me talking to you, that’s me. If you
see me anywhere else that was me. Get it? In essence, I’ll be narrating
my own story as it took place, and I’ll be doing my best not to interfere.
(Takes a drink)
My name is Kip Carson. Well no not really, but I like it. I was named
after my grandfather which is cool. But my mother once told me that
porn stars get their names from their pet’s name, and their street name.
My dog’s name is Kipper. So Harrison Ford likes Indiana, I like Kip. Not Junior.
And my street name is Carson Street. So Kip Carson. I like it ok. I never tell
anyone my name.
(Takes another drink)
So, anyway about my family.

INT-CHAPEL-PAST

We are at a wedding. The bride and groom walk down the isle, and do their, “Dearly Beloved”, thing. Kip as narrator gets out of a seat, and comes close to address the audience in a whisper.

KIP NARRATOR
(WHISPERING)
Here we are at the happiest day of my parent’s lives. If you
don’t count any day since or before.

PREIST
If there is anyone who can offer any reason, why these two
should not be wed, speak now or forever hold your peace.

KIP NARRATOR
I would speak up, if I didn’t have to worry about my own
existence. Believe me, I’d be doing these tow a favor.

Kip watches as the ceremony, and his parents get married. They kiss and he returns to the audience.

KIP NARRATOR
They look happy right? Handsome, beautiful, young, and with their
entire lives before them.

Kip watches as his young, good looking parents run past him to a car outside. The car drives away.

EXT-STREET-YEARS LATER

The same car, old and beat up pulls into the driveway of large house in the country. Kip’s parents get out, and they look even worse than the car. Older, over weight, and very unhappy looking. Kip gets out of the backseat, and follows his parents up the steps to his house. Then, Kip the narrator gets out of the back seat as well.

KIP NARRATOR
This is what they look like now.
(HOLD ON THEM)
Depressing huh? To think, just fifteen years later. Life’s a bitch.
(BACK TO KIP)
I know it’s not entirely my fault, but I’d like to take credit for that.
I mean, sure it’s sad and all, but if one, little, human being, can cause
that much change, in a relatively short time? That’s a person who can
make a difference.
(LOOKS AT HIS FAMILY)
Anyway, back to the story.

INT-SMALL HOUSE-PAST

This house is the house of a young Kip. It’s only a few years after the marriage, and Kip’s parents still look ok. Kip’s mother reads to him, and his father grabs a pack of cigarettes, and exits the house. Kip as the narrator enters as he leaves.

KIP NARRATOR
Here we are at my tender age of about one year. Living in
a small house in Oklahoma for seven years can humble
some people. Not me. You see my mom reading to me?
That’s one of the reasons I’m a genius. Hey, tests,
teachers, and friends agree…
(Points to the baby, and himself)
…genius. Anyway, I always liked books, and I guess this is why.

KIP’S MOTHER
(Reading)
…and the bunny hop, hop, hopped all the way down to
to carrot tree lane.

BABY KIP
That’s like Hob-hob-hobbiton, right mommy?

KIP’S MOTHER
Right, Kip honey. Very good. And who is the bunny like?

BABY KIP
Gandalf?

KIP’S MOTHER
That’s right!
(READING)
And then the little bunny…

KIP NARRATOR
Hey, I’m a genius.

Kip walks out of the house, and leaves his mother reading to his child self.

EXT-SMALL HOUSE-SAME

Kip’s dad is still out on the porch smoking. Kip stands next to him, and address the camera.

KIP NARRATOR
My dad is outside smoking, for three reasons. Number one,
my mom has asthma, and my dad loves her enough to smoke outside,
just not enough to quit. He does within a year from now though.

He picks up his fathers pack of cigarettes, and throws them away. Throughout the rest of Kip’s monologue, his father looks for the pack of cigarettes.

KIP NARRATOR
Number two, I am only an infant, and second hand smoke is
bad for an infant.
(HE COUGHES)
It’s bad for everyone else too. Number three is that my grandma,
on my mom’s side is descendent from the samurai, and she’ll kick
his ass if he smokes near me. No shit, I’m a samurai bitch. And I’m
a genius. Just good genes. Although, on my dad’s side, my grandma
is a crazy, alcoholic, old bag so I’ve got that to look forward too.

INT-KIP’S HOUSE-PAST

Kip continues to address the audience as he walks through the house.

He starts at the back of the house where Kip sits at the computer writing.

KIP NARRATOR
When I was seven years old, my grandmother died of
cancer. She never smoked or drank. I loved her very much, and
before she died I’m glad to say she was saved. I’m sure she’s
kicking samurai ass in heaven, and I can’t wait to see her again.
Anyway, after her death, we moved here. The redneck capital of
the world. San Antonio, Texas. Well, maybe after Louisiana, and Arkansas.
My dad loves it here. You see he has full military retirement pay.
So he moved me to this nice up class house, in the middle of a
giant cesspool. All those redneck jokes from Fox Worthy? You
can see them here. Every single one. So in this big ass
house, I sit and live back here, alone. As a family we
can’t stand to be around each other. I got this part of the
house. Computer, TV, DVD player, and video games.

Leaves the room and crosses the hall.

KIP NARRATOR
I sleep in here, which has another TV, bookshelf, and posters galore.
It’s nice enough to have two rooms all to yourselves. However,
living with two parents that you see for about twelve minutes a
day can be trying. and about ten of those are all bitching, nagging,
and of course, questions.

CLOSE UP-PARENTS ADDRESSING THE CAMERA-QUESTIONS

KIP’S MOTHER
How was school? Did you have fun?
CUT TO:

KIP’S FATHER
Did you do your homework? Do your homework!

CUT TO:

KIP’S MOTHER
Did you feed, walk, brush, play with, and spoil your dog yet?

CUT TO:

KIP’S FATHER
Can you get me a soda, and a glass with ice?

CUT TO:

KIP’S MOTHER
Do you still care about me? Do you love your mother?

CUT TO:
KIP’S FATHER
Will you go get me sandwich, with chips and dip?

INT-KIP’S HOUSE-PAST

Kip leaves his alter ego writing at his computer, and walks out into the living room. There is a big couch, a big screen TV, and Kip’s Father, sleeping.

KIP NARRATOR
Dad gets the big room, next to the kitchen, and with the big TV.
What’s ironically sad about this is that he sleeps a lot.

Kip walks over to his sleeping father, looks down. His father is snoring loudly. Kip holds his fathers nose for a few seconds. His father’s mouth opens and he snorts loudly before continuing to snore.

KIP NARRATOR
Sometimes late at night I wake up to the ungodly sound
of my father snoring. Sometimes, I’ll be napping at school,
and I’ll wake up thinking that he’s there, grinding away at his
vocal cords, and windpipes.

He lifts his fathers eye lids, and snaps them back into place. His father wakes up with a start, and stares around the room.

KIP NARRATOR
I love my father.

He leaves his father looking around, and enters the master bedroom. where his mother is reading. There are Ozzy and Harriet beds.

KIP’S FATHER
Mom, hangs out in here. She reads, and occasionally watches
cooking shows, or Everybody Loves Raymond reruns. A devoted
nuclear family, living together under one roof. Just not in the same room.
I’d like you to notice. There are five TV’s in the house. Two for me in the
back of the house. One in the living room. One in the master bedroom. And,
one in the closet, that my dad takes with him when he goes fishing to
get away from us. Five TV’s and not one of them in use. “Waste not Want not” is
not the philosophy of this house. Your going to witness the
following scene the way I did. Without a clue. But I bet you can figure
it out.

Kip the narrator leaves the room, and his father enters with an angry look on his face.

KIP’S FATHER
What the fuck is wrong with you!?

KIP’S MOTHER
Hmmm…What?
(LOOKS UP FROM BOOK)

INT-KIP’S COMPUTER ROOM

Kip is still sitting at his computer writing away feverishly. From the outside the room we can hear the mumbled voices of Kip’s parents. The voices slowly get louder and more angry. We can’t here the words, just the tone. His parents are pissed. Random slams, and a few curse words filter into the room. Kip is oblivious.

KIP
(Not looking up)
Shut up! I’m writing!

The yelling continues for a tense beat. Then we hear a door slam, and hurried loud footsteps coming down the hall. Kip’s father enters the room, looking pissed.

KIP’S FATHER
How can you put up with her?

KIP
(SIGHING)
With who?

KIP’S FATHER
Your mother! She drives me insane.

KIP
You married her.

KIP’S FATHER
Yeah…I know.

KIP
You buttered your bread, now lie in it.

KIP’S FATHER
What?

KIP
Nothing. Look, what’s the big deal?

KIP’S FATHER
She doesn’t do shit.

KIP
She works 9 hours a day, six days a week.

KIP’S FATHER
I meant around here.

KIP
Well, what about you? You don’t work.

KIP’S FATHER
I worked in the army for fifteen years, serving my country. I
will never do house work again. I’m a disabled vet, damn it.

KIP
Dad, you jumped into an empty swimming pool when you were five.
Thirty years later your hips give out. So you retire. That’s no excuse
not to do house work.

KIP’S FATHER
Listen, she has gotten lazy and fat. It looks like she swallowed
a god damn keg.

KIP
Don’t blaspheme dad.

KIP’S FATHER
What?

KIP
Don’t say God in vein. And shut up about mom. Your
no spring chicken. What are you now? 280?

KIP’S FATHER
None of your business you little shit.

KIP
Whatever dad.

KIP’S FATHER
I just had enough of her ugly ass.

KIP
Dad, she takes care of you. After your surgery when you
couldn’t move, she wiped you ass for you. I got pissed about
helping you put on your socks. She works now, because you
don’t want to. Who care if she doesn’t wanna lose wait.

KIP’S FATHER
I do! She’s my wife. Sex with her is just…

KIP
(INTURRUPTING)
Dad! That’s disgusting. What about you? You sit at home all day
and sleep, and eat. Then on the weekend, by Sunday your so sick of
us you have to go fishing for three day’s, so you can get shit faced
behind mom’s back. Fix yourself first, and leave mom alone.

KIP’S FATHER
Don’t you tell me what to do. I’m fifty years old.

KIP
Forty-five, actually dad.

KIP’S FATHER
Close enough. I’m a grown man, with a house and a car,
and I’ll be damned if I’m gonna let my own son talk about me
and tell me what to do.

KIP
I damn you sir.

KIP’S FATHER
Shut up. She’s Forty-three years old. She has asthma so bad
that we can’t even have sex. She weighs 269 pounds. She leaves shit
in plies all over the house. She won’t cook. She won’t clean. She won’t
put her clothes away. She won’t fuck.

KIP
Dad!

KIP’S FATHER
Grow up. She sits on her ass, and does nothing. And I’ve had just about
all that I can take. I just fucking hate her. I haven’t liked
her for a over a decade.

KIP
Dad, you’ve been married for thirteen years.

KIP’S FATHER
I know. That’s the point. I can’t stand her much longer. I just
want you to know that I won’t leave until your out of
high school. I gotta do right by you. But after that, I think I’m gone.
(TAKES OFF WEDDING BAND)
Be careful with this. It can really fuck you hard man. Be careful.

KIP
Thanks dad.

KIP’S FATHER
I just wanted you to know. And like I said, I’ll be around
for at least three more years yet.

KIP
Looking forward to them dad.

KIP’S FATHER
Just know that I love you son. I always will. I just
can’t stand your mother.

KIP
Yeah, I’ve kinda gathered that dad.

KIP’S FATHER
(GETTING UP AND LEAVING)
Anyway, I’ll talk to you later son.

KIP
Later dad. Thanks for the heart to heart.

Kip’s father leaves, and Kip goes back to his writing. Then Kip as narrator enters, and addresses the audience.

KIP NARRATOR
Three months later he said he wanted a divorce. I cried
and mom cried. I told mom the same shit about why he shouldn’t
leave, and I added on the fact that we were broker than shit. If he left
we’d be screwed, and he’d be screwed. I asked her to talk to him.
Mom and I went to see Spider-man, a pretty good flick despite the situation.
After mom talked to my dad, he realized that leaving would be a big mistake.
So, he decided to stick around. He told mom he was sorry, and that he loved her.
He told me he would probably stay with her forever. So, now I’m a sophomore, and
were all a happy family again. At least in our three separate rooms.

He watches him self write for a minute, thinking.

KIP NARRATOR
Oh, yeah. I’m a writer. Ok, that’s enough of my family drama.
Now you know me, my dumb ass dad, my hard working mother, and
that lump on the floor is my dog, for which I am named. On with
that stupid high school bull shit.


Um thats the real opeing to the movie where you meet the main characters. In the next scene, Kip and his buddy discuss the fact the Morpheus from the Matrix was gay in case you're wonder what the supid high school bull shit is.

[Potzer! 37]

Should I just try and post the whole script or what?

By the way...in case you missed it Kip's father is putting of his problems because he doen't want to deal with it...see how it ties together there, heh heh?

So yeah that's about three quarters of the cast...only other character's are Kip's best friend and Kip's girl...not his girl friend just his girl if you know what I mean...that platonic, emotional, Duckie and the Redhead in Pretty and Pink kind of relationship.

So Yeah, give me comments and let me know if you want to read the rest...I guess I'll email it too you but you know...copyright and shit.

[The Seraphim]

Hey, pretty good intro man, I dug it. I mean, short of the stuff NobodySpecial mentioned (setting up the scene better), I thought it worked.
I don't know about you, but when I write, I have it all in my head, so when I put it down on paper (or computer screen), I don't really bother to elaborate on things. I simply say what, who, where, like you did. It's because, in my head, I know what's going on, so I don't really rewrite it. And since I plan to direct everything I write, it almost seems redundant to reiterate it to myself. I suppose if I were planning to hand a script off like you did, it'd be something I'd have to do, and it's probably a good idea to get used to doing anyway.
As for the monologue itself, like I said, I dug it. I mean, some of the jokes didn't work for me, but that's not necessarily bad jokes as much as it's different tastes. Otherwise, I thought it felt very natural, and could easily picture someone saying it all. Most monologues sound pretentious or stilted, but not this. Nice, fluid writing.

Because even the most rudimentary tasks are put off until the last second. Shit, I’d rather be thirsty all day than get up and walk my ass three feet to the faucet.

I didn't really have a problem with this line. Regardless of whether or not Kip addressing the camera puts him in a position of power, the way it's said makes it feel like he just conversing with us like "one of the guys". It's natural, relaxing, and brings the reader in. I prefer chatty stuff, like Kevin Smith type dialogue. Regardless of length, if it's natural, leave it in. That's just my opinion though.

I hope he waits a little longer, because like I said before, I’ve got a story to tell.

I liked this line, thought it brought the thing full-circle quite nicely. I also think the monologue should end here. The rest, especially the last sentence, almost feels like I'm about to watch an episode of The Wonder Years.

As for the actual content of the monologue, I can't make a fair judgement without reading the rest of the script (which I'd like to, send it my way), but it reads natural, so good job.

Oh, and with the Rodriguez thing, good luck man. If you meet him, drop my name too, haha.

[Potzer! 37]

Thank you thank you thank you! I'm so glad that someone really seemed to get the tone and the style and all that. I'm glad you dug it and the script is on the way via e-mail. Could you let me know what you think about the other scene posted as well? And just to clarify, I wrote the script and then one day my AP said he'd give it to Robert. If I had more time I probably would ahve done more to make it really readable for someone not in my own head.

[NobodySpecial]

Now the line about walking three feet is supposed to be a joke...stupid little tasks are a big deal. To support this and make the auidence laugh, he says he'd rather be thirsty than walk to the sink. He's putting off his problem. Most of that kind of thing is humor...this is basically just an introduction to the movie where real issues like divorce, relationships, and religion are all going to be treated with an attitidue of humor.

So the thing is nothing in that monologue is funny. It doesn't even read like it's supposed to be funny.

This monolouge is really an intro that sets up the tone and introduces you to the theme and ideas of the script.

You don't need scenes to set up tone and introduce themes. Those can be done just by structuring your story correctly. What you've done is actually the opposite in that the tone is not clear to me at all. Just from your monologue there's nothing there that tells me this is going to be a drama or a comedy or what, and that is a problem. Basically all that's happening is time is ticking off the clock, and you don't want that in a movie.

This, btw, is why these kinds of opening are discouraged.

I'm not editing it because the lenght and the time it takes to just say "My story should help with your problems" is kind of a realization of the idea presented.

There are a couple of realities. 1) You don't write scripts for people who love words, because by in large they don't. 2) People sitting in a theatre get bored very very easily. If you're going to delay something on purpose then there has to be a very strong payoff at the end -- like a car blowing up or a shark eating a baby. In this case, your payoff is a literary trick that someone might pick up if they were in an English lit class reading your script, which is not going to be the case.

And just to take it a step further, a film-director or producer reading your script is not going to have the time or desire to wait for something like this. In screenwriting you can't get to the point fast enough.

My final advise would be: less talking, more doing. Film is a visual medium, so be visual.

[The Seraphim]

Film is a visual medium, so be visual.

Agreed, but that doesn't mean he can't be talky. You're being presumptious about the audience. There have been many successful dialogue-heavy movies.
Have you ever seen "High Fidelity"? Relatively talky, and he addresses the camera directly over the course of the movie (widely regarded as a bad idea). I thought the movie was brilliant.

Your response seems to be coming from a very commercial place - "if you want your movie to be successful, do this, don't do this", etc. Also, you imply he should dumb it down, since only someone in an "English lit" class would get the joke? Writing a script target-demographically seems like a bad idea to me. Make the movie...the people who don't "get it" aren't your intended audience. Unless of course it's his intention to reach a wide, commercial audience, in which case, rethink it. I believe there is a large difference between writing for the writing, and writing for a commercial audience, and each should be approached differently.

And for the record, I think a shark eating a baby in the movie would be fucking awesome.

[The Seraphim]

Film is a visual medium, so be visual.

Agreed, but that doesn't mean he can't be talky. You're being presumptious about the audience. There have been many successful dialogue-heavy movies.
Have you ever seen "High Fidelity"? Relatively talky, and he addresses the camera directly over the course of the movie (widely regarded as a bad idea). I thought the movie was brilliant.

Your response seems to be coming from a very commercial place - "if you want your movie to be successful, do this, don't do this, etc." Also, you imply he should dumb it down, since only someone in an "English lit" class would get the joke? Writing a script target-demographically seems like a bad idea to me. Make the movie...the people who don't "get it" aren't your intended audience. Unless of course it's his intention to reach a wide, commercial audience, in which case, rethink it. I believe there is a large difference between writing for the writing, and writing for a commercial audience, and each should be approached differently.

And for the record, I think a shark eating a baby in the movie would be fucking awesome.

[Potzer! 37]

You really though that none of this was funny nobody? Cause that sucks....I mean it's all kind of funny to me. Quips and one liners and such. Um, also being in high school, 80% if the people who have read this script are 18 and under and they all dug it...laughter and everything from page one on...I know film is a visual medium, but for me all the best films have a really strong structure in the writing...pulp fiction, the first ten minutes or so is all talking and that's it. Unless you count Hunny Bunny and Pumpikn pulling a gun a great pay off then the opeing scene pre-credits had no pay off but is dialouge and funny dialouge that sets up the tone and how the movie will play...crime and humor all in one. Alot of plup fiction is just talking actually and all with little or no payoff. Sure something cool happens at the end of each conversation but it usually had nothing to do with the conversation.

Take the gold watch monolouge...lots of words for..."this was your father's now it's yours." But nobody bitches because it's a solid funny and revealing monolouge. Just because you didn't dig it doesn't mean I've failed at trying to capture my auidence...also when the film is finally over people will be able to look back on the monolouge and notice that it foreshadowed or set up the whole theme of the movie.

Did you like High Fidelity? Cause alot of the monolouges are taken straight from the book word for word and lots of them and it works. Just because I'm not following all the structure rules doesn't mean my script sucks and that's my biggest problem with most of the comments I recieve on this forum. I know I'm not Tarintino and I havn't earned my right to break to rules but you know what? The story plays better if the narrator talks to the auidence, plain and simple. If you remove that motif then the script just becomes a bunch of kids bitching...the narrator fills the gap of stupid shit and meaningful moments. If I just open my movie with parents fighting and never really try to wax philosophical on the subject then no one will care abou the character. I have to put his ideas and thoughts and attitude out there for the script to work. And the best thing the monolouge has going for it is that KIP thinks he's being funny as hell here..and for the most part he is pretty funny. It's not for everyone but if God saying FUCK IT doesn't make you smile then you shouldn't be watching or reading my script in the first place cause that's the kind of movie it is. For my money the coke and pepsi line is my favorite and I think it plays just right to sum up Kip's point that our normal ideas about the world are fucked up and need altering and if you listen to him you just might lean something.

Oh, and now that you mention it, I should totally change the setting to swimming in the ocean and at the end, Kip swims out for frame and a shark gets eaten by a baby. I dig it. I reversed it on you, so it's an even bigger pay off right.

Oh and to the Seraphim thanks for backing me up...Go watch His Girl Friday for a talky kind of movie.

[Ronaldinho]

You konw, Seraphim, if he wants to make the movie himself, raising his own money and doing everythign himself - then you're right, he shouldn't think about what anybody else will think. He should just write it and shoot it and wonder why he can't get anyone to screen it.

But you know, this is something Potzer wants to show to Robert Rodriguez. In other words - this isn't something he wants to do alone. It's something he wants and needs help to get done.

Part of "walk before you can run" is master the basics before you start trying to reinvent stuff.

It's flabbergasting to me that you would mention high fidelity -yeah, sure, it has a guy addressing the camera. Absolutely. But that's about where the similiarities end.

Here's a link to that script.

http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/High-Fidelity.html

Read it. Now come back and look at this one. Does this opening monolog advance character as much? Does it tell you the tone or themes of the movie as much? Is it as funny or touching? Is it as true?

I think the answers to those questions are all clear.

Potzer - look at the amount of explaining you're doing for your work. You're not going to be there to explain it to people when they read it in a professional context. They're not going to care about your explanations.

Whenever you, when sharing something, feel obligated to explain to justify or try to help your audience understand something - that's a feeling you should pay attention to. It's telling you the script needs work. Listen to it.

I'm not trying to be harsh here but I find it unlikely that somebody who was used to reading professional scripts would read past the opening monolog.

Potzer, to be blunt, I think you should spend a lot less time thinking about how you'd direct yoru masterpiece and a lot more focusing on the basic fundamentals of craft. This means reading more scripts, and writing more, and for a while not thinking of yourself as a director.

Just think of yourself as a writer.

This is important, and it's a trap a lot of people fall into. The best way you can get yourself in position to eventual direct this is to write a script which people fall in love with. This isn't that. Make it work as a script, so you have something of value, so than you have some ability to leverage yourself.

When you put on your writer's hat, you take off your director's one, and vice versa. When you start getting ready to direct a script, you have to do the same work on it whether you wrote it or not, so you take off your writer's hat and put the director's one on.

There will be a time to think about directing but, honestly, it ain't now. Just make the script work.

[NobodySpecial]

Agreed, but that doesn't mean he can't be talky. You're being presumptious about the audience. There have been many successful dialogue-heavy movies.
Have you ever seen "High Fidelity"? Relatively talky, and he addresses the camera directly over the course of the movie (widely regarded as a bad idea). I thought the movie was brilliant.

The trick to films that are talky are that they have to have incredibly good dialogue. That's one thing. In terms of High Fidelity it's a high concept film, and its still not very talky. My Dinner with Andre is a talky moving, and its that rare gem that is able to pull it off.

Let's be clear, we are talking about a piece of dialogue that is 660 words long, which runs well over a page in length. See if you can find a script with something like that in it.

Your response seems to be coming from a very commercial place - "if you want your movie to be successful, do this, don't do this", etc.

Please make no mistake, that isn't where I'm coming from at all. My comments are not intended to make a more commerical film, but a better one. There is such a thing as bad storytelling, and a one page monologue in a screenplay is an unfortunate mistake. That speaks nothing at all to the nature of the story, its appeal to mass audiences, or any other such detail.

Also, you imply he should dumb it down, since only someone in an "English lit" class would get the joke?

First, it's not a joke, it's a bit of symbolism or something like that. In any event, the thing to remember is that the film audience is not going to have a copy of the script in their hands, and so including a literary trick, which is what this is, in a screenplay is not productive. That isn't dumbing down, it's acknowledging that the wrong tool is being used.

That's not to say the idea of having a character be long winded or slow to act is a bad idea, but there are better ways of doing it which don't involve 600 word monologue.

Make the movie...the people who don't "get it" aren't your intended audience.

One limits or expands their audience based on the ideas or emotions they communicate, not how they communicate those ideas. You can take any film and structure it in a way that doesn't make sense or that will annoy the audience. Just film everything with the lights turned off or a high pitched squeeling in the background. Unless all you're doing is a purely technical exercise, it's probably not right for you or your film.

The question here is what is Potzer's point. What is it he wants to communicate to the world. If it's that he can bore the hell out of the audience and piss them off then okay (Gerry), leave everything the way it is. But if it's a set of ideas, then that's what needs to be focused on. If you want to show that Kip puts things off you can do that in other ways that will communicate that more effective than a 600 word monologue.

There are always edge-cases in execution -- films that do things radically differently and make it work -- but the truth is this isn't one of those cases. That much is clear. It's all right, but it's important not to excuse things that would make a better story under the guise of said edge-case.

[The Seraphim]

I agree with your comments about wearing one hat and not the other, that was a very good point. As for my reference to High Fidelity, I wasn't trying to compare the two. I was simply trying to point out that it's not completely unacceptable to open with a monologue or have someone address the camera, as NS appeared to be making it out to be.
And I also agree with the point that having to explain so much means there is probably something fundamentally wrong with the writing.
NS, maybe I mistook your comments, and I'm sorry if I did.

One limits or expands their audience based on the ideas or emotions they communicate, not how they communicate those ideas.

Quoted for truth, a very powerful statement. I want to step back a second. In regards to Potzer's intro...I mentioned that I wasn't judging the actual content of the monologue (other than to say that it felt natural, which I stand by) but rather his choice to use one as a mean to open his movie.

[Potzer! 37]

Once again I just need to say that everyone who's read the script from teachers to family to friends to AP's just enjoyed it...in fact my teacher got the idea right away that the monologue sets up the theme of the movie and not in just a structured way but by what he's saying.

To Ronaldinho---I'm defending my script because my script is being attacked, not because I think I have to explain it...go look at where I posted it first...just the monologue and that's it. But you guys said some stuff that I disagree with so I'm going to argue it.

It's not boring and it is funny according to everyone who's read it other than you two. I've read a shit load of scripts and I've written a shit load as well and I find it really fuckin insulting to presume that I don't know the basics or the structure based on something that you just didn't like.

Just because the thing is 660 words long or whatever doesn’t mean it's shit and if I cut out half it that doesn't mean that it's better. I mean what really bored you or pissed you off about this monologue? Didn't get the biblical stuff? You girl friend's a vegetarian? I mean why isn't it funny.

I think it works on a very basic level of just a nice guy talking to you about something he feels passionate about. As far a length is concerned I just pulled that literary idea out of my ass to try and explain it. In reality I just wrote it until it stopped. It just came out naturally and that's why it is natural.

If you guys think it sucks I'm sorry that you feel that way...but nobody else has felt that way. And don't tell me my friends are lying to me to protect my feelings because I'm in high school and FUCK YOU has almost replace hello. We bash each other on a regular basis and they tell the truth. My own mother thinks I should cut the whole thing because it's to vulgar. She laughed while reading it, but she'd rather it not be put on film...I mean Jesus, it's not like the script police are gonna come along and fine me for writing a monologue.

And again to Ronaldinho--How do you know so much about the industry and are so convince people either won't bother with the script at all or stop reading after the first page? Do you do that shit for a living or have you just been burned every time you submit something or are you familiar with the system?

And as far as looking for examples from other films...the Annie Hall monologue stretches out to almost three minutes, the monologue at the end of Amistad runs for way more than 600 words, A shit load of Shakespeare stuff runs longer than this one, the gold watch monologue from Fiction run almost 600 words, and I'm sure there are more.

Also you haven’t read the script so how the fuck would you know if it speaks to what the rest of the script is about? Where the hell did that comment come from? I’ll agree that it doesn’t move the plot, but it's the first scene; what plot? Can anybody tell me the plot based on the opening scene of any movie except maybe the warriors?

As far as words being boring and visuals entertaining, I know people that have turned off Donnie Darko after the first three minutes of him on a mountain because they were just bored.

I have to also say that this seems to annoy no one who's read it. The catholic bash later did but only because of the content and the guy was catholic. What's annoying about a guy talking to you in a friendly and enjoyable way unless you like Satan or something?

I also don't think it's "Radically different" to open the script with a monologue. It's been done and done often. I don't have him speaking fuckin Portuguese here he just talking. Not really radical.

As far as High Fidelity is concerned, I know people that hate this just because they don't really give a shit about music or records. The opening about pop music is brilliant if you can see yourself in that idea. Other wise it's just some sad looking guy talking about music all alone before his girl dumps him. As far as similarities go, I think that Seraphim only mentioned it because he dug it and it uses the same talking to the audience idea. The scripts are not the same granted. You could compare Snatch to Reservoir Dog saying that they both have large casts trying to steal diamonds and that's the similarity. Just something they have in common, not the same script by any means.

And up until like a month ago I did only think of myself as a writer. And I write all kinds of shit not just scripts and I do know the basics and the structure and all that so please don't patronize me about it.

And to end this little rant let me ask how you would know if this is a script people could fall in love with or not? That is a huge assumption. I fell in love with it and not because I wrote it but because it fuckin works. I mean to assume that a script you haven’t read will be universally hated is really fuckin wrong. How would you know and why would you say it? You didn't love it or even like it. But if you hated it you wouldn't have wasted this much time trying to get me to make it better.

And other than this monologue did wither of you read the scene I posted afterward that follows the monologue? I'd like some feed back on that too if you don't mind, but feel free to continue attacking the monologue as well.

[NobodySpecial]

You really though that none of this was funny nobody?

I'm sorry to say but no I didn't. To be honest, looking over the dialogue, I can't even tell what's supposed to be funny. It might be an issue of age (I'm not quite high school age anymore) but it might just need some work. Not to sound like a broken record, but shortening the piece would allow you better control over tone. That is, you have a better chance to setup and deliver the jokes you want to and make them stand out.

pulp fiction, the first ten minutes or so is all talking and that's it.

I haven't seen Pulp in a while but I don't recall it being a 10 minute opening. More over the ending to the scene is the payoff, and ultimately that's what defines the scene. Omit the gun play, and the scene changes entirely.

Alot of plup fiction is just talking actually and all with little or no payoff.

We could spend hours writing about Pulp (and it's 2 am so I won't) but keep in mind most of that dialogue is either in a very extreme context (a la some guy's head just got blow open in a car) or its advancing story (the stuff about fate and what not at the end). Also keep in mind that while there is a fair amount of dialogue in the flick, there's a lot of action going on. People are dying, overdosing, dancing. And there's a gimp. 'Nuff said.

Did you like High Fidelity?

Eh.

Just because I'm not following all the structure rules doesn't mean my script sucks and that's my biggest problem with most of the comments I recieve on this forum.

Let me be clear, I haven't said your script sucks, and certainly not because you're not following some perceived rules of structure. And to be clear, I dont' object to the presence of a monologue at the front of your story. I have issue with this monologue as it stands, but I also think it can be revised and improved.

Now, you are perfectly free to disagree, and at the end of the day this is your script to do with as you please, but my suggestion would be just to try doing things a bit differently. The nice thing about writing is that you get to use an eraser. Try rewriting the opening in a completely different way and if you don't like it, don't use it. Play. Have fun. Just while you're playing and having fun try and cut the monologue down by a couple hundred words.

It's not for everyone but if God saying FUCK IT doesn't make you smile then you shouldn't be watching or reading my script in the first place cause that's the kind of movie it is.

Yeah, I curse a lot, so this isn't particularly funny to me. It might play better to prudes, however.

For my money the coke and pepsi line is my favorite

Yeah, that went right over my head.

Oh, and now that you mention it, I should totally change the setting to swimming in the ocean and at the end, Kip swims out for frame and a shark gets eaten by a baby. I dig it. I reversed it on you, so it's an even bigger pay off right.

Isn't that already a scene in the new version of The Omen? I'm pretty sure there's some baby-eating-shark action in the forth reel.

[NobodySpecial]

I also don't think it's "Radically different" to open the script with a monologue. It's been done and done often. I don't have him speaking fuckin Portuguese here he just talking. Not really radical.

You see? Now this is funny. I laughed when I read this. Well, chuckled. Actually it was kind of snort that became a chuckle, but still. Write stuff like this. Not 600 words of it, of course.

[Potzer! 37]

I get that you didn't like the thing but to say that it needs to be redone to work it crazy. You don't like now and no matter what I do to it, the tone and ideas will be the same because that's how it's supposed to be. Writing and re-writing to change someone's opinion won't work...if you like you lie and if you don't you don't. Director's cuts make fans of the original happy because they can see something they liked in a new light and people who hated the original will say the remake sucked too because they just don't dig on it, know what i;m saying?

To Ronaldinho
very intrested to hear what's up after what is in essance a long rebuttal against all that you have said.

Do you write? And if you do, how far have you gone with you stuff, and if you havn't gone far do you really think it's because your original ideas need to be fed through some kind of acceptance rewriting machine that will make it more enjoyable?

Oh and to Nobody, the Portuguese thing is a line from Bleacher Bum's I think. Oh and when you said that you swear alot and so didn't fins the God saying fuck funny were you implying that you are God and that you already knew you swore or what?

[Ronaldinho]

Originally posted by Potzer! 37
[B]Once again I just need to say that everyone who's read the script from teachers to family to friends to AP's just enjoyed it...in fact my teacher got the idea right away that the monologue sets up the theme of the movie and not in just a structured way but by what he's saying.

And don't tell me my friends are lying to me to protect my feelings ...

I don't think they're lying to protect your feelings. I think that they simply don't know what they're talking about.

Look, Potzer, people treat work by high schoolers differently than how they treat work by 30-year-olds. This may not make sense to you now, but it will. When you read something by a high schooler you're forigiving. You look for things to like and to be encouraging about. You're looking for potential, and if you see it, you praise someone ot the skies so they keep at it.

Screenwriting is an unusually disciplined form of writing, in ways that most amateurs don't understand. The fact is that long monolog might work as a narrative voice opening a novel - and most people have read novels - but it simply doens't work on screen. An experienced screenwriter knows this. An assistant principal probably doesn't - through no fault of his own - simply because it's not a medium he's familiar with.

It's not boring and it is funny according to everyone who's read it other than you two. I've read a shit load of scripts and I've written a shit load as well and I find it really fuckin insulting to presume that I don't know the basics or the structure based on something that you just didn't like.

I'm not presuming anything. I'm concluding that you don't know some of the basics of craft (not structure) because this piece of script displays a lack of them.

Just because the thing is 660 words long or whatever doesn’t mean it's shit and if I cut out half it that doesn't mean that it's better. I mean what really bored you or pissed you off about this monologue? Didn't get the biblical stuff? You girl friend's a vegetarian? I mean why isn't it funny.

I think it works on a very basic level of just a nice guy talking to you about something he feels passionate about. As far a length is concerned I just pulled that literary idea out of my ass to try and explain it. In reality I just wrote it until it stopped. It just came out naturally and that's why it is natural.

I guess I might ask you why it's funny. I didn't laugh. I got the bilical stuff. My girlfriend /is/ a vegitarian but nobody gives her more shit for that than I do.

First of all, to me, it didn't come across like a "nice guy talking." It came across like somebody pointlessly angry. Secondly, "I just wrote it until it stopped" is pretty much the definition of not using any craft.

Third, yes, 660 words is too long. How many films can you name that start with that much chit-chat with nothing happening?

I mean Jesus, it's not like the script police are gonna come along and fine me for writing a monologue.

No. People will just think it's a poorly-written script and pass on it. The goal is to get people excited to see this made into a movie, no?

And again to Ronaldinho--How do you know so much about the industry and are so convince people either won't bother with the script at all or stop reading after the first page? Do you do that shit for a living or have you just been burned every time you submit something or are you familiar with the system?

Let's see: I'm currently paying my bills with money earned by my scripts. I've been working in the industry for several years after graduating from one of the top film schools in the country. I recently won what is probably the most prestigious award available for a non-produced screenplay (which, I freely admit, is nothing compared to an award for a produced screenplay).

I am very familiar with the system. I'm also familiar with the expectations of the people who will read your script (I've been one of them).

And, furthermore, I've read a lot of raw, amateur writing by high schoolers and college-aged kids. Honestly, when I look at what you posted, I see a lot more in common with that than I do with the professional material I've read.

Which is not to say that I think this is all bad. But it's incredibly undisciplined, and that's a kiss of death for a screenplay.

And as far as looking for examples from other films...the Annie Hall monologue stretches out to almost three minutes, the monologue at the end of Amistad runs for way more than 600 words, A shit load of Shakespeare stuff runs longer than this one, the gold watch monologue from Fiction run almost 600 words, and I'm sure there are more.

Sure. Okay, let's knock out all of those except Annie Hall right off that bat: they don't open the movies.

There's a huge difference between using a monolog to open a movie and using a monolog at a high point in the film. So when you talk about the monolog at the END of Amistad, or in the Gold Watch scene in Pulp Fiction, you're talking about something that is paying off the emotional conncetions we already have for the characters.

Shakespeare is Shakespeare, and, quite simply, we have different expectations for Shakespeare-on-film than we do for a film which expects us to believe it's immediate reality.

Annie Hall, of course, does start with a monolog. And you know what? It's about half as long as this monolog. Secondly, it's placed in a clear context. Third, not to put too fine a point on it, but it's both funnier and more poignant than your monolog.

If you open the script with something that powerful, I doubt we'd complain about it.

But you know, the problem with your opening monolog isn't just the 660 words. It's that the next scene opens with a single line of description (nothing new, by hte way) and then another 160 words.

Also you haven’t read the script so how the fuck would you know if it speaks to what the rest of the script is about? Where the hell did that comment come from? I’ll agree that it doesn’t move the plot, but it's the first scene; what plot? Can anybody tell me the plot based on the opening scene of any movie except maybe the warriors?

One of the things you gain with experience is the sense of when a scene is pushing a story forward, and when it's just lying there. This is just lying there.

Look at what you know from the end of the monolog in Annie Hall. Look at what you know by 800 words into "High Fidelity." I like the fact that you obviously have seen a lot of films, here, but now I think you need to look at them again - I think you need to line them up next to your script and be honest with yourself: "Is this as funny as that?" "Is this writing as sharp as that writing?" "And I making my points as efficieintly as this script does?"

As far as High Fidelity is concerned ...

My point was to look at the craft elements of High Fidelity, and to see how you compared.

And up until like a month ago I did only think of myself as a writer. And I write all kinds of shit not just scripts and I do know the basics and the structure and all that so please don't patronize me about it.

Hey, look ... you asked, repeatedly, for what we thought. Don't get pissy because we told you and it wasn't what you wanted to hear.

And to end this little rant let me ask how you would know if this is a script people could fall in love with or not? That is a huge assumption. I fell in love with it and not because I wrote it but because it fuckin works.

You know what the biggest single problem I see with young writers is?

Seriously - worse than bad craft, worse than derivative ideas (which I'm not accusing you of, by the way) worse than lazy writing.

The worst single problem I see in young writers is a lack of objectivity toward their own work.

I'll let you figure out how this may apply to you and the above statement.

I mean to assume that a script you haven’t read will be universally hated is really fuckin wrong. How would you know and why would you say it? You didn't love it or even like it. But if you hated it you wouldn't have wasted this much time trying to get me to make it better.

Dude, I think you need to take a deep breath, because nobody said anything about this being "universally hated." But the simple truth is that getting people to say, "Oh, it was alright" is not enough in this business.

And other than this monologue did wither of you read the scene I posted afterward that follows the monologue? I'd like some feed back on that too if you don't mind, but feel free to continue attacking the monologue as well.

Do you really want feedback on that other scene, or do you want us to simply tell you it's great?

Bceause so far you haven't really come across like somebody who really wants feedback. You've come across as somebody who's made up his mind about this particular script and simply want people to validate your opinion.

And yes, to answer your question, I read it.

[Ares2907]

Same stuff

different day.

[Potzer! 37]

Not quite the same stuff...that was a thread where most of the comments were about the content and the ideas in the script...this thread has comments either about the lack of expierence I have in my craft and the structure of the writing rather than the content which only recently was discussed...If you don't like that content that's cool, but my problem is that I'm being told that the script i've put so much into will likely never be read or enjoyed by someone that knows how a script should read....I beleive that the exact phrase was something to the effect that the opeing monolouge alone is reason enough to stop reading and there fore I should learn from my horrible mistake of a screenplay and write something better.

Plus I haven't be based at school....everybody that's read the script has loved it and the other guy was having trouble finsing an auidence that liked his script.....I have plenty of people who like my script and on the thread itself I'm having to defend it to a slightly more knowledegable and much more experienced group of peers...I'm not looking for validation. If you remember the original thread was just to sum up my past year or so...I was asked to post something and I did....said section of script was not well recieved so I have spent the past half dozen posts or so trying to explain and defend the writing and the content.

That's that...

[Monotreme]

Originally posted by Potzer! 37
said section of script was not well recieved so I have spent the past half dozen posts or so trying to explain and defend the writing and the content.

That's that...

And therein lies your problem, my friend. You shouldn't be "defending" your script from anything. This isn't a war and nobody is attacking your script. All that is being offered here is constructive criticism. Instead of wasting your time defending the script, what you should be doing is nodding, saying "you're right", reading all the comments in-depth, looking at your script again from an objective standpoint and try to learn something from all the comments and constructive criticism you've been getting.

My friend, art is a critical field, and film is probably one of the most critical fields within the art field. You'd better start getting used to recieving and accepting criticism not as an attack but as an attempt to help, to improve.

[Ronaldinho]

I beleive that the exact phrase was something to the effect that the opeing monolouge alone is reason enough to stop reading and there fore I should learn from my horrible mistake of a screenplay and write something better.

That wasn't the exact phrase. Let me suggest something to you, if you want a career writing screenplays.

Learn how to listen.

This is twice, now, that you've heard something much harsher than anyone has said. (Earlier I wrote that nobody's going to fall in love with this, and you seemed to hear me say that everyone was going to hate it, yet those two statements are worlds apart).Yes, I said that a lot of readers would put this down after the opening monolog. Absolutely.

But nobody said that this was a "horrible mistake of a screenplay."

It's full of amateur errors, that's all. It's too static. Nothing happens. It's all about setup and there's almost no drama. You're constantly stopping the action to have your narrator explain stuff to us (that's a fundemantally literary device - not a filmic one) and when you do have conflict, it's still very expositional and dry - as if you're afraid that if you don't have characters explain everything we won't get it.

Now that sounds harsh, but in fact these are all fairly common, correctable mistakes.

Look, you're a fairly bright kid, so I'm going to tell you something which, eventually, you'll realize is true. You are eventually going to realize that you're capable of working much, much harder than you work now when you work hard.

You see this at college - you go to a good school, where everybody was an "A" student, and all of a sudden if you want an A you've got to work a hell of a lot harder than you did before. You see it again in grad school - again, you're dealing with people who were in the top of their college classes - but a big difference between the people who thrive in grad school and the people who just sort of amble along is that the thrivers realize that there's a whole new level of work - they can push themselves farther than they thought possible.

And then you get out into the real world - and you see the same thing again. The people who lifted their game another notch are the ones closer to making their living the way they want to.

This isn't just what happens in the film business. I've heard similar things described by friends of mine who are doctors and lawyers. At every level, there are people who say "oh, I've pushed hard enough."

I even fell victim to it myself, a little. Out of film school (where, honestly, I can say that most of my peers considered me one of the best writers in my class) I went into cruise control for a year or two, not really pushing myself - and I was treading water. And then I decided it was time to get out of the minor leagues, rededicated myself, and, you know, all of a sudden I've got five balls in the air in this business - meeting with a director on one, a producer on another, a development exec on a third ...

I'm not saying this to pat myself on the back, but for you to realize that me saying "you've still got a long way to go," doesn't mean, "You suck." I see things I like in this script fragment (you're trying, for example, to hide some of the exposition about the parents relationship in the argument of the scene. It's clumsily done, but it's a really good idea that most people don't get at your age). On the other hand, I have to be honest with you: this isn't a professional-quality script.

The problem is that comparing yourself to other people at your high school is like - to return to an analogy I've used a lot here - a basketball player realizing he's the best player in his high school and assuming he's good enough for the NBA right now.

There have, of course, been some high school players who were ready for the NBA. Not many, but a couple. But most of the best basketball players in their respective high schools are not only not good enough for the NBA now, they never will be. Heck, a lot of people are the best basketball player in their high school and they aren't good enough to get a division one scholarship.

So even if you think you can conclude (which I'm not saying you have, but even if you could) that you're the best screenwriter in your high school, you have to realize that you're still just splashing around in the kiddie pool.

And that's not an insult. That's not a personal attack. It's not saying anything bad about your screenplay or your talent at all.

It's merely pointing out the size of the mountain in front of you.

[XvoorheesX]

Originally posted by Potzer! 37
yeah...but what about the monolouge...?

I just finished it.

I think the only way to describe it is Annie Hall, meets High Fidelity, meets Pulp Fiction. Only better. With whipped cream and hookers on top.

Not only that, but it's immediately clear that everybody who took the time out of their day to read it and give their advice are just hating on you because they enjoy seeing their fellow writers fail at life.

....

That's what you wanted to hear, right?

Would you rather people lie to you? Because you asked for honest critique, and you got exactly that. It's very good for a highschool script. But you've got to realize, there's an absolutely extrodinarily big difference between the expectations of a highschool student and a professional writer.

First of all, you need to follow everyone's advice and chill out. Nobody is attacking you, they said it was good for a 17 year-old (and I agree), but it needs work. If you're getting any truly neagtive responses, it's because you're inviting them by acting rude, telling people they don't know what they're talking about, accusing people of being biased against you, saying fuck every second word, taking this way too personally, and practically every other thing that would make someone avoid any of your future posts.

These people are helping you, and you're spitting in their faces.

So again, the choice is yours. You can ask for critique, we can tell you exactly what you want to hear, and you'll be happy. But you won't learn anything that way, and you're missing a great way to improve your skills.

Or, you can listen to the advice you're getting, treat it with a grain of salt, and start improving your writing abilities.

It's up to you.

[Potzer! 37]

To Monotreme---The idea of taking every bit of critism and agreeing with it seems to be a bit wacko...

All that is being offered here is constructive criticism. Instead of wasting your time defending the script, what you should be doing is nodding, saying "you're right", reading all the comments in-depth, looking at your script again from an objective standpoint and try to learn something from all the comments and constructive criticism you've been getting.

Again, what I've learned from the comments is that I need to keep writing until I get it right, because that's the basis of much of the critism, and they are right in that I do still have a long way to go...but this script is done. I worked for a period of about six months wrighting, editing, planning, and completeing this thing, and typos not with standing this is the best this script will ever be. I'll take advice, such as Ronaldinho saying-

I see things I like in this script fragment (you're trying, for example, to hide some of the exposition about the parents relationship in the argument of the scene. It's clumsily done, but it's a really good idea that most people don't get at your age).

I'm a bit arngy at the critisim of the writing I'm so proud of, and yet I want to know exacly what was clumsy about the scene and how he might fix it. to just say the scene is clumsy bothers me because I don't know what it means. Also, Ronaldinho, I'd like you to elaborat on what you mean by hiding exposition in the argurment...what does that mean?

[Potzer! 37]

I think the only way to describe it is Annie Hall, meets High Fidelity, meets Pulp Fiction. Only better. With whipped cream and hookers on top.

At this point I was way happy and waiting for what was probably going to be the eventual, "NOT!" ...but you did me one better is analyzing my own words and dammit you're right, but I feel I have to take the comments personally as it's such a personal script. I know that I can be a dick, but I also feel justified in being offended at a few of the comments.

And again, please tell me some specific ways to fix this thing if it's really all that bad...and as far as everyone saying that me having to justifiy and explain my work is a sign of weak writing....should I just have said, "I don't have to explain this because it speaks for itself." or what?

[Potzer! 37]

I just thought of something...all screenplay critisims and craft disscussions aside, do any of you think that this thing could work as a film?

What with the standar nuclear disfunctional family and the interactive narrator and stuff, does this movie seem like the kind of thing that people would like? You know family analysis and later on relationship kinds of scenes. I also have a scene where it is discovered that Morpheus is gay...does that kind of pop culture reference still work?

I mean the script will always go through changes from production to editing won't it? So even if the monolouge is too long, is it incorrect to assume that the thing could play out just right for the opening and if it doesn't I can edit it or cut it all together?

Thoughts on that aspect of things as well please

(And I promise to try and chill out...)

[XvoorheesX]

Well, one thing that should make you feel better is that every writer goes through this. Writing is a very personal thing, and the oft-used analogy of a work of writing being akin to the writers own children isn't that far off. It's natural to be defensive of your script after you've worked so hard on it. But it's just something you'll have to learn to get over.

Just like if you want to make the NHL, you've got to realize that to learn to skate you're going to have to fall on your ass a couple hundred times. And as someone who's played hockey for over a decade, it hurts like hell. But if you have the right attitude and the will to improve, you get past it, guaranteed.

And you can get past this too.

If you're mad that people have pointed out problems, but not solutions, it's simply a misunderstanding. Say the random piece of advice is "act one is too slow, you need to find a way to get in quicker". That's a problem, not a solution. But the thing is, if you tell them how to do it, most writers would consider that someone else telling them how to write they're script.

If a script sucks, I'll tell you. We'll tell you what it needs to do more effectively. But we won't tell you how to, because it's your script, not ours.

Really, say you're math teacher told you that you got every question on a math test wrong. If she told you all the answers, you'd have a short-term solution, but you'd probably fail the next test.

But if you sat down, got out your notes and your books, figured out yourself where you went wrong, and figured out yourself how to do it right? You'd probably ace your next test.

And that's what screenwriting is like.

You say your script is done, and it might be. But that doesn't mean you can't make it better. The beauty about creating something is that with some hard work, everything can be made better. And finding out how to do this time will make it easier next time.

[Potzer! 37]

Well again...I've re-read the thing at least a dozen times and I just dig the hell out of it. The characters all stand on their own, the dialouge works for me in both funny and dramatic moments, the pacing of it works, and even the tone all seem to fit...now don't think that I'm just tooting my own horn here. There's stuff I've written that I will never show you guys because it's way embaressing. But this one I'm just happy with. The monolouge is too long you say? Well I've had friends perform it for me, I've read it aloud to a few people and it always runs just the right lenght for me, at about a minute and a half or so. It runs quixk and is a funny collection of ideas, images, and philosiphies that sets up the rest of the script and I'm happy with it.

If I could see where these comments came from, like the opeing being to vulgar for instance...I can see that. I wrote it from a bitter place and it is kind of vulgar. But stuff like---

The dialogue as a whole also doesn't make much sense.

or

So the thing is nothing in that monologue is funny. It doesn't even read like it's supposed to be funny.

or

it's incredibly undisciplined, and that's a kiss of death for a screenplay.

These comments are all critism that should, if explained, help the writing to be funnier, more disaplined, and make more sense. But I don't know where these comments are coming from because they're not my opinions. I disagree obvisouly but I still what to know what exacly you hated if not how to fix it. What wasn't funny, where did you get confused, and what makes it undisaplined. Cause the other guy that read it just dug the tone, the humor, and the set up...and he explained why he dug it. You guys offer you opinion and tell me to fix it but....to continue the sports analogy...If a kid on a basketball team knows how to pass the ball and does so on a regular basis with no complaits from his team mates but the coach just says the passing could be better; how does that help? If the coach had said make the passes quicker or more precise or anything with more information than make it better than the kid might learn.

It's like with the short Project Exodus. The edit needed some work in my opinion so I said that. But I also explained why the editing needed changeing in my opinion. I didn't just say, better editing, but I used specific descriptions like tighter and more tense, and I even offered an example of where he could make it better at least for me.

Just telling me that the writing needs work won't help me as I don't see any flaws in it. The monolouge is, to me at least, funny, revealing or character, entertaining, and a good tone setter. If you disgree say so, but please tell me why you think the thing's not funny, or how I could help flush out my chatacter in the scene.

Thanks.

I liked this line, thought it brought the thing full-circle quite nicely. I also think the monologue should end here

This one I disagree with in that I like the rest of the dialouge after the line in question, but I can see where he's coming from and he offers some help in understanding just why he likes or dislikes something.