Opening scene to my script

[dmbman32]

Tentative Title: "Seeing"

Premise: A college student deals with multiple failed relationships, and tries to use past experiecnes that still haunt him to good use.

Opening scene:

From black screen after the distributor title to……

1. EXT. APARTMENT. - NIGHT TIME.

It’s around 10-11:00 at night. It’s in a small apartment in a small city. There are two people in the room: TOM and JULIE. Both characters are college students, maybe around 20-21 years old each. They’re both people who actually look their age, neither with drop-dead, movie-star good looks. Nor do they have exceptional figures, but both are in pretty good shape with decent features.

The time of year this scene is taking place is around Christmastime. We can see this because it is snowing outside, as well as Christmas lights in the apartment.

Hand-held camera on a C.U. on our main character, TOM. He is sitting on a bed with his head down and his hands on top of his head. He looks distraught and at a loss for words. He looks up at……

CUT TO:

JULIE. C.U. with a hand-held also looking distraught, although not as much as TOM.

There is no noise except for the natural sounds taking place. Both shots last for around 5 seconds to get a feel for their place at that time.

CUT BACK to TOM now looking up at Julie, trying to get the words out.

(During this dialogue, hand-held C.U. continues on each character when they are speaking.)

TOM
……….How long?

JULIE
……….Since Thanksgiving.

TOM
…..uh…What have you been saying to each other?

JULIE
……..He wants to get back with me. And I told him about you,
and what’s been going on with us.

TOM
And what did he say?


JULIE
He saw was at the game.


TOM
The Bulls game?

JULIE
Yeah.

TOM
Which one?

JULIE
The 1st one we went to. A couple months ago, or whatever it was.
He told me that he saw us kiss.

TOM
‘The hell was he doing there? What was he, following you?


JULIE
No, he was their with some friends, and he saw us in the
hallway or something.

TOM
(Starting to get angry with sarcasm in his voice.)
Jesus Christ. This guy is a piece of work. Between
what you told me before and now all this, this joker’s really got
his shit together.

JULIE
You don’t understand, Tom. Alright? You don’t know the
whole story.

TOM
I know enough!
(Gets up off the bed, and starts pacing and fast-paced dialogue.)
We already played the “Ex” game. Remember? You already told me what kind of shit he did to you.

JULIE
Tom…..



TOM
Wh…what was it again? Dumped you in front of his friends when you
drove out to his house to see him because he blew off your calls?



JULIE
Yeah, but that was awhile ago. That was when we broke up the first time.

TOM
EXACTLY!! So, if that is how the first trip around the track
ended, why in the hell would you date again? Let alone
even take his calls?

JULIE
You already know why. This is really hard for me too, ok? I don’t
want this right now, either. I know it was bad, but we were really
good friends before we started dating.

TOM
Yeah, some fuckin’ friend……And didn’t you mention something along the lines
of you could barely drive home that night because you were sobbing so badly. I mean, this IS the same guy, right? This is him? This is that Clooney that treated you so well?

BEAT.

JULIE
Yes, Tom. It’s same guy. And I know all that stuff,
And what he did to me. And what I went through because of him.


TOM
(Letting it sink it for a second and sits back down on the bed)
So……….what’d you tell him?

JULIE
I told him that I’ve been seeing you for a couple months, and
I wasn’t sure.

TOM
(Gives a quick head-snap in her direction, particularly
because of the last thing said.)
Not sure of what?

JULIE looks away from TOM, and starts looking a little nervous. TOM senses this, and snaps.

TOM
NOT. SURE. OF. WHAT!?

Shot changes to an EXTREME CLOSE-UP on her entire face. JULIE stammers and tries to get the words out.

JULIE
Well……



CUT TO:

TOM on the bed in a M.S. slowly TRACKING closer to him. The shot will be in slow-motion, but the dialogue will be delivered at a normal speed. Think Road to Perdition or
Raging Bull on the shot in question.

The shot is to show TOM not changing his expression, or move at all. He’s simply taking in the upcoming news that he both knows is coming, and has dealt with too many times. His face is a combo of shock/sadness/calm.

JULIE
(OS)
We just had so much history before things started between us.
It’s………it’s not that I want to get back with him, but he
was just saying these things that just have me so confused
right now. I mean, I really like you and I love what’s been going
on between us the last couple months….I just………….
I can’t go any further with you right now, Tom. I just can’t.
I’m so sorry.
The camera stops moving on a C.U. of TOM’s face and shoulders. He takes a deep breath.

CUT TO:

FILM TITLES with a black text & white background. The song “Carol of the Bells” by
John Williams & his choir. The song lasts 1:26, so all the credits must fit in this time.

[Ares2907]

I call troll.

On the off chance that I'm wrong:

read this

and

this.

[JawShoeWah]

Your opening scene has many problems.

First off, the way you write description is just wrong. It makes me feel like I’m reading an amateur script. As a screenwriter it is not your job to call camera shots, that’s the director’s. When you do this, like reference a shot from another film, it is distracting and really doesn’t help at all. Your description should read like this:

It’s late December around 10pm. Tom and Julie, two college students, are arguing in their small apartment located in some city just as small.

Tom is sitting on a bed with his head down and his hands on top of his head. He looks distraught and at a loss for words.

Something like that. Short and simple, I don’t need your physical descriptions of the characters. If you want to sell your script, then most likely these characters will end up looking like movie stars. Don’t mention what they look like unless it is essential to the plot, for example if one of them is black and race plays a role in the relationship.

Your dialogue is good, but boring. You need a better opening; this scene could work if it wasn’t the start.

You have 5 pages to impress people, so fill up the first 5 page with better material, and leave the character development for later.

Also, your characters seem at this point quite shallow. I don’t even like them yet and already I can tell they are going to make stupid decisions. Maybe you could start with Tom and Julie having a good time, a wonderful creative date. And then the fight happens. This way the audience cares more about the fight and doesn’t want anything bad to happen to them.

This is all the advice I could give you, if I knew your plot I could probably be much more helpful.

[XvoorheesX]

First off, the way you write description is just wrong

Bold statement.

Your description should read like this:

Rewriting someone else's work to show them how is often considered poor ettiquette, or rude. The idea is to show them what's wrong, then let them learn by fixing it themselves. Besides, there are plenty of ways to write a scene, and I could pick apart your "how to" rewrite just as much.

I don’t need your physical descriptions of the characters. If you want to sell your script, then most likely these characters will end up looking like movie stars. Don’t mention what they look like unless it is essential to the plot, for example if one of them is black and race plays a role in the relationship.

While some of this is true, I disagree. You want to describe characters. You want them to stand apart and create an image. No, you don't need to describe their face in minute detail, but when I'm reading a script, I don't want to be wondering anything. I want the writer to put clear, distinct images in my head. The original line doesn't do that, but yours
isn't any better.

You have 5 pages to impress people, so fill up the first 5 page with better material, and leave the character development for later.

Really? Where did you hear that? Because it's pretty easy to tell a skilled writer from a hack amateur pretty quickly, and if someone doesn't like the first page, they probably won't even look at the second.

Every script is different. If the first five pages need character development, then the writer should do just that. You're making some awfully big (and restricting) assumptions about this script.

Look, I know you're trying to help, but it seems like you're jumping to conclusions just so you can point out someone else's mistakes (which are all natural, beginner mistakes that can be learned from with relative ease). It also sounds like you're regurgitating cliche screenwriting axioms that don't necessarily fit here. You are right about some things, but try to look deeper into the material and come up with specific things that could help the writer, without trying to do it for him.

Dmbman32, read the links Ares posted. They should be a good start in getting a solid grasp of some formatting basics.

[NobodySpecial]

I don't really know where the "troll" comment is coming from, and I certainly don't think it's appropriate. Obviously, the first suggestion that can be made is to take a look at some of the scripts on this site and elsewhere on the internet to get a better feel for language used. As mentioned your script is very direction-heavy, which isn't the best way to write a script to be read. It really does hamper the reading of the script, which is especially bad because I actually think it's not too shabby.

Going more slowly....

It’s around 10-11:00 at night.

You don't need to tell us the exact time unless the time is specifically relevant to the story. Even then, you can usually dispense with it. We know it's night, that's enough.

It’s in a small apartment in a small city.

Here's the thing, if it was a small apartment in a big city, then I'd be showering you with kudos for writing a beautifully simple and fullfilling line of description, but instead I don't really know what it is we're talking about. Small apartments in small cities are, from my experience, totally unremarkable in their size. Small apartments in big cities, however, are generally considered tiny by normal standards. So, do we have an unremarkable apartment, in which case you can just call it an apartment, or a tiny one?

There are two people in the room: TOM and JULIE. Both characters are college students, maybe around 20-21 years old each.

You don't need to tell us their college students. If it's important for the story that they're college students, it'll come up when it's actually relevant, so you don't gain anything by telling us that up front. Also, be decisive with ages. Are they 20 or 21? You know, because you just created these people.

Also, what "room" are we in? Your slug indicated this was an apartment, but not what room. And also, what are these two people doing? It makes a huge difference if this is in the bedroom with them both in bed (which incidentally is how I imagined it when I first read this) or with them sitting across from each other in the living room (which I think might be how you meant it).

They’re both people who actually look their age, neither with drop-dead, movie-star good looks. Nor do they have exceptional figures, but both are in pretty good shape with decent features.

As a rule, you don't need to tell use how a person is not exceptional, unless it's really, really important (e.g., an unexceptional person walking into a casting for a modeling gig and surrounded by gorgeous people).

The time of year this scene is taking place is around Christmastime. We can see this because it is snowing outside, as well as Christmas lights in the apartment.

Snow outside doesn't equal Christmas in L.A., or any number of other locations, so don't assume that it does. You can just tell us that the apartment has Christmas decorations up, or just say, "It's Christmas time..." Again, don't call attention to the filmic nature of this ("we see", "this scene", etc).

TOM
I know enough!
(Gets up off the bed, and starts pacing and fast-paced dialogue.)
We already played the “Ex” game. Remember? You already told me what kind of shit he did to you.

All of the dialogue up to this point was excellent. It was natural, flowed, and really danced around what was going on in a great way. What I really liked about it was how much you weren't saying. I really thought it was great. Just absolutely great.

BUT, it went south from this point on. Specifically, "You already told me..." From this point on Tom degenerates to just dumping exposition, and that really stinks, especially in light of how great you started. It's normal in a fight to say something like, "Didn't you tell me so-and-so dropped the fork?" or "You said he always ate the last cumquat.", but the way you've written it sounds like, "Let me tell you what you already told me..."

JULIE
Yes, Tom. It’s same guy. And I know all that stuff,
And what he did to me. And what I went through because of him.

This perfectly encapsulates the problem. Julie's response to all this is, "Yeah, dickhead, I know my own life story." And really, she does.

JULIE
(OS)
We just had so much history before things started between us.
It’s………it’s not that I want to get back with him, but he
was just saying these things that just have me so confused
right now. I mean, I really like you and I love what’s been going
on between us the last couple months….I just………….
I can’t go any further with you right now, Tom. I just can’t.
I’m so sorry.

The big shocking news is a major letdown. I expected something a bit more dramatic. That said, I do really like the way you have Julie saying this. The fact that she takes a bit too long to say something that's very simple is very human, and it's harkens back to the beginning of the dialogue that felt so real.

So overall I like it, but it needs a pass over the exposition to clean/tighten it up. Also, work on staying more true to "proper" script format (i.e., no/few camera directives, no making reference to this being a film, no music, and what not). If you have question on that sort of thing we can help.

[Ares2907]

I don't think the troll call is a harsh one. There are that many cliche noob mistakes packed tightly together, I was (am) convinced someone was (is) taking the piss.

Then again, none of the characters are called Heywood Jablomi or similar, so maybe I'm wrong - in which case the two links I posted, which funnily enough also occur at the top of the thread list, are filled with helpful stuff directly applicable to the piece posted here. (Maybe some logic that made them blink annoyingly for each new user until read would help).

Sure we can rehash it all again if you like, but I've been hoping for a while now that we could get into some discussions that went beyond the 'here's something I whipped up five minutes ago, please tell me if it will sell in hollywood' type of thread. Totally hypocritical of me I know, since I've not been totally proactive on this front, but I've been called worse

What I'd be super impressed by is if the OP read the links, poked around some old threads, rewrote his piece, posted it again with some comments/questions steeped in self-motivation and ambition.

[JawShoeWah]

Originally posted by XvoorheesX



Rewriting someone else's work to show them how is often considered poor ettiquette, or rude. The idea is to show them what's wrong, then let them learn by fixing it themselves. Besides, there are plenty of ways to write a scene, and I could pick apart your "how to" rewrite just as much.

I tend to disagree. You seem to be picking apart my critique anyway, more so than adding your own, and this I feel is inappropriate toward the topic. You act as if I was being a jerk when I feel I was just giving criticism. I didn’t re-write his dialogue, I just showed him how to set up a description by using his own words. If I had just said see other scripts, he might not have known what I was referencing, instead I chose to simply re-write 2 lines in order to show him a more proficient way.

While some of this is true, I disagree. You want to describe characters. You want them to stand apart and create an image. No, you don't need to describe their face in minute detail, but when I'm reading a script, I don't want to be wondering anything. I want the writer to put clear, distinct images in my head. The original line doesn't do that, but yours
isn't any better.

Again, I was just offering a critique, but you as a person have your own preference to what you want to see in a script, I was giving him mine. I’m sorry if that didn’t please you, but at least it wasn’t as jarring as the original opening.

Really? Where did you hear that? Because it's pretty easy to tell a skilled writer from a hack amateur pretty quickly, and if someone doesn't like the first page, they probably won't even look at the second.

I heard this from experience. Now yes, I agree on first page semantics, if I see it done unprofessionally, I tend to not go on. Yet, I was in fact referencing content, no one just reads one page of something and decides if they don’t like something, if they do, I would presume they are pretty close minded. Since you made this assumption, I could only infer you Sir are just as close minded. 5 pages really are not that much. People tend to read the first 50 pages of a novel before they decide whether it’s worth finishing or not. In scripts, I would round it from anywhere between 5 to about 25.

Every script is different. If the first five pages need character development, then the writer should do just that. You're making some awfully big (and restricting) assumptions about this script.

Look, I know you're trying to help, but it seems like you're jumping to conclusions just so you can point out someone else's mistakes (which are all natural, beginner mistakes that can be learned from with relative ease). It also sounds like you're regurgitating cliche screenwriting axioms that don't necessarily fit here. You are right about some things, but try to look deeper into the material and come up with specific things that could help the writer, without trying to do it for him.

Dmbman32, read the links Ares posted. They should be a good start in getting a solid grasp of some formatting basics. [/B]

I put restrictions on the screenplay because before you can walk you need to learn how to crawl. Look, I’m not offended that you critiqued my critique. Just as I’m sure the original poster isn’t offended by my original post. I just want you to look past the fact that I didn’t pussyfoot around the situation and offered some actual criticism, and maybe next time you won’t try to critique me for being me.

[XvoorheesX]

Originally posted by JawShoeWah
I tend to disagree. You seem to be picking apart my critique anyway, more so than adding your own, and this I feel is inappropriate toward the topic. You act as if I was being a jerk when I feel I was just giving criticism. I didn’t re-write his dialogue, I just showed him how to set up a description by using his own words. If I had just said see other scripts, he might not have known what I was referencing, instead I chose to simply re-write 2 lines in order to show him a more proficient way.



Again, I was just offering a critique, but you as a person have your own preference to what you want to see in a script, I was giving him mine. I’m sorry if that didn’t please you, but at least it wasn’t as jarring as the original opening.



I heard this from experience. Now yes, I agree on first page semantics, if I see it done unprofessionally, I tend to not go on. Yet, I was in fact referencing content, no one just reads one page of something and decides if they don’t like something, if they do, I would presume they are pretty close minded. Since you made this assumption, I could only infer you Sir are just as close minded. 5 pages really are not that much. People tend to read the first 50 pages of a novel before they decide whether it’s worth finishing or not. In scripts, I would round it from anywhere between 5 to about 25.


I put restrictions on the screenplay because before you can walk you need to learn how to crawl. Look, I’m not offended that you critiqued my critique. Just as I’m sure the original poster isn’t offended by my original post. I just want you to look past the fact that I didn’t pussyfoot around the situation and offered some actual criticism, and maybe next time you won’t try to critique me for being me.

I've been critiquing scripts here for about four years now. This is your first on this forum, so I'm assuming you're new to it. I may be wrong, but that's how it came through in your post. What you feel is inappropriate to the topic doesn't really concern me. I felt it is appropriate, so I posted it.

I didn't critique the original piece because I didn't need to. "Read these links" covered most things I would have said, as well as most things you've said.

Preference doesn't have anything to do with this. You said "Your way of writing is wrong, this is my way, my way is right". So what about if he has a preference? I disagree with what you said, so I called you out on it. It's nothing personal, it's just two writers discussing craft, which is what this forum is for.

no one just reads one page of something and decides if they don’t like something, if they do, I would presume they are pretty close minded. Since you made this assumption, I could only infer you Sir are just as close minded. 5 pages really are not that much. People tend to read the first 50 pages of a novel before they decide whether it’s worth finishing or not. In scripts, I would round it from anywhere between 5 to about 25.

Listen... Five pages is a gift. If your script is improperly bound it won't be read. If your script is in a different font it won't be read. At all.

Ask anybody who works in Hollywood, or who knows anybody who works in Hollywood, or just ask any of the people on this forum who work in Hollywood if they would read five pages of a script that they knew they'd have no interest in. They'd say no. If you're saying that someone will read the first five to twentyfive (!!!) pages of a script regardless, then I definately disagree with you. You need to prove you're a great writer from the first line of your script, and every single page has to be fantastic.

But that's not really important, because if someone posts their pages here, they will be read regardless. My intent is that again, you're saying things that aren't true and that don't apply to the specific post you're replying to.

People disagree here all the time, which is fine. I think it's great your critiquing here, this forum needs more people. However, I just happen to disagree with some of the things you said (and again, that's just some. Some of the things you said were spot on). Getting multiple opinions on an issue will help the writer evaluate the advice he's getting and hopefully he'll learn more for himself that way.

[dmbman32]

OK.....

1st off.........I appreciate all the comments both good & bad:

This really was my 1st attempt at really writing a decent scene:

So, here is the premise I'm trying to go with:

A 20-year old student at college is trying to both find himself and success at a relationship. At the same time, he is trying to figure out how past experiences have helped/hurt him, and he's struggling to learn from them.

Here are the things I'm trying to do that are different from what is being released right now, which might offer some insight on the way I've written certain things:

-A film where the actors actually ARE the age they're playing, rather than LOOKING it.

-A "Closer" for college students. A film that honestly shows how younger people can mis-lead relationships/screw up/grow from what they've learned. AND.....do this in a serious way........not a "She's All That" bullshit.

-The story will not have an "ending" per se. The opening scene is supposed to be the last "thing" in the film that the main character deals with. Also, this opening scene will basically show the BEST "relationship" he ended up having.

Now, for the criticisms:

-I DO agree that I have too much "explaining" of what happend in the past. I can fix that.

-I stand by the camera angles/camera shots I put in the film. Look at the "Kill Bill' script: Same thing. Quentin put certain camera shots in the script. Granted, I probably won't direct this, but I want certain shots implemented.



Also, I fully believe that the opening scene will be a lot better with a full, finished screenplay. That is something I'm still tinkering with now. But, the following is what I'm going for right now.

[NobodySpecial]

-A film where the actors actually ARE the age they're playing, rather than LOOKING it.

and

-I stand by the camera angles/camera shots I put in the film. Look at the "Kill Bill' script: Same thing. Quentin put certain camera shots in the script. Granted, I probably won't direct this, but I want certain shots implemented.

Neither of these are ever going to happen. You cannot dictate that they cast actors of a certain age (nor would you want to), and you cannot demand that there be certain shots in the film. Even if you were going to direct this yourself, you wouldn't have that kind of power unless you were financing the film yourself too.

About the age think, I realize that the "30 yr old actor playing 18" thing is a common complaint people make of Hollywood, but the reality is sometimes the best actor for a role isn't that age. What would you do if the best actor for the role of Julie was actually 25 instead of 20? Would you go with an actor who you don't think is as good because they claim to be the age you've written?

It's just not possible in the real world, where films are made. The thing about writing is that it's not real. It's all in your head. What happens is your first hour on the first day you visit a real movie set you realize that the real world is going to completely screw up what you had in your head. The weather isn't going to behave how you imagined, actors aren't going to say the lines like you imagined, they aren't going to be able to set up the shots you imagined, and you're going to be the only one there that cares.

So it is important to dispense with these ideas early on, and put all your energy into making the story itself as strong as possible.

One final word about camera directions, the key is that camera directions make scripts harder to read. They get in the way of the story and the characters and the dialogue. So what's happening is you are making your script more difficult to read, and therefore not as good as it would be if they weren't there. You are unnecessarily making yourself look bad, which is a shame because I can already tell that you're a good writer (for the reasons I mentioned).

At this point, I would recommend for you to pick up a bunch of screenwriting books and pour through them, because there are some fundamental things about screenwriting you need to have down, and I think it would be very helpful for you as you're starting out.

Hope that helps.

[inglourious basterd]

Originally posted by dmbman32
-I stand by the camera angles/camera shots I put in the film. Look at the "Kill Bill' script: Same thing. Quentin put certain camera shots in the script..

Nobody Special put a lot of great criticism. I hope that you strongly consider his words.

I just wanted to say that Tarantino has the tendency to break formatting conventions. I wouldn't use his scripts as "models" for how scripts ought to look like, regardless of the fact that his scripts are extremely entertaining and enjoyable.

Tarantino calls his scripts "novels" and he writes without limitations. The first draft of Pulp Fiction was supposedly 500 pages! (He obviously edited it afterward). To this, QT says:

I'm in a position now I can just say fuck the page count. I know the movie's gonna be about two-and-a-half hours long. All this page count stuff is for the production manager. It has nothing to do with me. So I'm not gonna dumb down my writing to keep the page count down.

That is exactly the point. He is in a position where he can do whatever he wants. But few writers in the world can get away with that in Hollywood. I highly doubt that anyone will read a long script with overdirection from someone that is new.

You could read the interview I quoted from below, if it interests you:

http://www.angelfire.com/movies/tara...nterview2.html

[Ronaldinho]

-I stand by the camera angles/camera shots I put in the film. Look at the "Kill Bill' script: Same thing. Quentin put certain camera shots in the script. Granted, I probably won't direct this, but I want certain shots implemented.

Here's the thing about your camera directions.

(Yours. Not Quentin's.)

They're not interesting or meaningful.

Sometimes (although less often than you think) a shot decsription really is the best way to communicate certain information about the scene. It's rare, bt it happens.

But is that the case here?

I'd have to say no (in part because, you'll note, you have to try to explain what the shot is supposed to do.).

And here's the second part of the problem:

Even if you're right (more on that in a moment) and this shot is absolutely, positively, the best way to communicate the idea you're trying to express, and everybody who sees the shot will "get it" and understand exactly what your'e trying to communicate ...

... that doesn't come across in the description of the shot. I mean, think of your favorite painting, the emotional response it creates in you. Now describe that painting. Does the description of the painting communicate the same emotion as seeing the painting?

I think the answer is clearly no.

But there's one more problem, related to my parenthetical note above.

Shots don't exist in a vaccum. Cuts, dolly moves, etc ... they relate to each other, build off each other, etc. So you can't meaningfully call a single shot in a script. If you want to call all the shots in the script, however, you're stepping on the toes of the director.

[rodvcpetrie]

I think it's best if you write the description of a scene in a way that communicates what sort of shot it will be, instead of writing the camera direction itself. Even if you're going to direct the screenplay yourself.

EDIT: I just realised that Ronald basically said what I typed above.