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#1
07-20-2007, 04:09 AM
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Short Comedy Screenplay - comments GREATLY appreciated
This is a very revised version of a short screenplay, written by myself and a friend, that I had originally posted about 2 years ago. It received some relatively favorable comments, so we took that as encouragement and applied the criticisms from the board and ourselves to our revision. Any comments, constructive criticism, or destructive scolding would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot!
A Grandstanding Occasion Synopsis: Two entities-one the incarnation of independent films and the other of mainstream movies-dispute over the occupation of a room. INT. ANONYMOUS ROOM DAY (Black and white) A stark room with a chair at a table in the center. The door opens and a man walks inside. He sits in the chair and stares lifelessly. On the table is a cup of coffee, cream, and sugar. As he sips the coffee he stares at the condiments with disdain. He checks his watch, prompting the sound of the ticking of the second-hand, which persists as he surveys the room, moving his head as little as possible. Suddenly, the door opens and another man’s head pops into the entrance. His body is in true color, while his surroundings remain black and white. He seems panicked. The main character (BW) looks confusedly at the intruder. A long silence follows as the two stare at one another. COLOR You gonna be in here long? BW (in French with English subtitles) Why? COLOR (pointing to mouth) I can’t uuhh... COLOR swiftly pulls a towel out of his pocket and wipes his hand, smearing the towel with blood. He puts the towel back into his pocket. BW notices. COLOR You think you could speak English? BW No. COLOR I, uh…I don’t get it. BW Shocking. Pause. COLOR Do I know you? BW does not respond. COLOR I just, I don’t…you obviously know English since you’re responding to me. BW Well you can obviously understand me to know that I’m responding. COLOR Because you’ve got subtitles. BW Exactly. COLOR Yeah, but I don’t want to have to deal with that. BW Sorry. COLOR Look, I’m gonna need this room. BW And? You think you can just say what you want and…and that’s it? COLOR (obviously failing to read the subtitles quickly enough) Come on, you speak English, goddamnit! BW I’m sorry, but I’m not in the business of pandering. COLOR Okay, well, we’ll compromise. Could you dub yourself? BW No. COLOR Okay, why not? BW You’ll just laugh when my voice doesn’t match up. COLOR Try me. BW sighs. BW (off-synch, dubbed English) What do you need the room for? COLOR’s face is red and his cheeks puffy as he tries to avoid exploding with laughter. BW looks away while we hear the crackling of COLOR’S lips. BW (plain English) So we done here? COLOR No, okay, here’s the thing… Quick pause. COLOR Where were we? BW You were telling me why you need the room. COLOR Sorry, brother. That’s my business. BW glances again at COLOR’S pocket and the blood-splattered towel protruding from it. BW Whatever. Just don’t be loud. COLOR (whispering) Thank you. COLOR heads for the back wall, flattening himself against it and sliding his body through a cramped slit of space between it and a filing cabinet. After a moment, BW turns around to find the cabinet rocking wildly. He turns back towards the front. The cabinet periodically shakes. Behind the cabinet, COLOR pulls out a box of cigarettes and pats his pants down. He pokes his head out from behind the cabinet. COLOR Got a light? BW does not respond. COLOR Do you have a lighter? BW once again says nothing. COLOR hurls the cigarette case at his head. Still, BW offers no reaction. COLOR Hey buddy, you’re gonna have to leave. After a brief pause, BW finally responds. BW (scoffing) You can’t be serious… COLOR You’re being rude. BW (laughing) God, I knew it would be a bad idea to let you in here. COLOR --And hostile. BW I didn’t have to let you in here! This is my place! COLOR What are you doing in here that’s so important?! BW Searching. COLOR Searching for what? BW Answers. COLOR To what? BW Life. Pause. COLOR Any developments? BW None that would be of much interest to you. BW Come on, man, you know you’re not doing anything in here. BW You just wouldn’t understand. COLOR Why not? BW Well, because I’m deep and significant, and you’re— COLOR You’re not deep or ins…whatever. You’re boring. BW (bursting) I…I’m a product of passion! I’m art! COLOR All you do is sit there with your coffee and cigarettes and— BW Wait, you’re accusing me of being empty? I…contemplate the futility of man's existence! COLOR Hey hey hey! As an actual man, I don’t really like you talking about my existence that way. BW I’m sorry if my conclusions disturb you. COLOR But you haven’t come to any conclusions! BW walks away from chair and faces the wall opposite of COLOR. BW I’ve come to the conclusion that there are no conclusions to come to. COLOR So get the fuck out! COLOR heads for the unoccupied chair. BW notices this and sits in it before COLOR has the chance. BW Absolutely not! COLOR You know what I think? I think you’re a very jealous person. BW And of whom am I jealous? COLOR sits back down against the wall. COLOR Well I’d say there’s a pretty good chance that the whom you’re jealous of is me. BW stands. BW (smiling) So what am I jealous of? COLOR I don’t know, maybe the fact that I’m not a virgin. BW Believe me, you’re a virgin in more ways than I. COLOR What? Pause. COLOR Buddy, there’s only one way I know. And that’s through girls. Hot girls. BW walks to the opposing wall. BW No, see, that’s another thing. I don't view people by their looks. COLOR Really? What do you view them by, their sound? COLOR starts laughing. BW No, I— COLOR Because I could never get the whole echolocation thing to work. I think that’s…I think that’s for dolphins. COLOR laughs harder. BW (quietly) Okay! Okay! Sshh! Shhh. COLOR (whispering) What? BW He’s listening. COLOR Oh. Good point, sorry. BW Getting a little…indulgent. Anyway, what I meant was I don’t judge based on appearance. COLOR Yeah, I guess I know what you mean. This one time, I hadn't gotten laid in like a month-- BW I don't ca-- COLOR Hey, man, I was 17! BW looks confused. COLOR --So, everyone I see suddenly looked hot as hell. I mean, I’d’ve fucked you. BW Well, I have a beautiful mind. COLOR Are you gay? BW No. But I try to keep an open mind. That’s why it’s beautiful. COLOR Sounds pretty gay. Let me just clarify, I wouldn’t have actually fucked you. Just a figure of speech. BW No it’s not. COLOR rises and heads for the chair. BW sits in it. COLOR Alright, that was harsh. To show I’m cool with gays, I’m gonna give you one more chance to stay in the room. Don’t get involved or you’ll be involved. Pause. COLOR And stay away from my kids. BW looks confused. BW What entitles you to treat me like this? COLOR The fact that you’re a loser. BW So you think that just because you’re more popular you can push me around? COLOR Why do you care if I “push you around”? You said yourself your existence is meaningless. BW Did I say that? COLOR Something like that. BW Well, anyhow, it’s more or less true. Only I'm conscious of my insignificance, which makes me all the more significant! COLOR Really? BW Really! COLOR That’s so…this is…such a strange coincidence. BW What? COLOR I am, too! BW You are too what? COLOR I’m conscious of my… BW Insignificance? COLOR Yes! BW Are you? COLOR Yeah, my insignificance is so…insanely…conscious, you wouldn’t believe. Sometimes, I think I can feel it kick. BW Yeah? When did you come to the realization? COLOR Oh, a while ago. BW Yeah? COLOR Oh yeah. BW How’d it happen? COLOR Oh, I was…sitting in my…room and I was looking at…a map. BW A map? COLOR Yeah, and I was thinking…we’re so small, you can’t even see us. And then, ya know, like, when you see those pictures of the solar system and Earth is just a tiny dot, then you really can’t see us. I mean, we’re nowhere near as big as the solar system. BW That’s so true. COLOR I remember thinking, “Wow, we’re so…hugely insigfinigant, I can’t even—“ BW You mean, “insignificant?” COLOR Oh, yeah, but, ya know, that was before I’d looked it up. BW Oh, yes. BW laughs. COLOR laughs. COLOR Yeah, it’s not everyday you meet a fellow collector of insignias. BW What?! COLOR Well, you know what I mean. That other word. BW You’re so full of shit. COLOR Oh boy. BW Yeah, you know what you are? You're a tranquilizer. COLOR A what? BW A distraction. To keep people from thinking about how meaningless their lives are. COLOR Okay now; be fair. People need distractions from their lives. BW But you encourage them to shy away from their problems. To be cowards! COLOR If it weren’t me, it’d be something else! BW You’re a drug! COLOR So’s heroin! BW What? Pause. COLOR How are you any better than me? BW I’m engaging! I encourage people to confront their problems, because I’m concerned with the human condition. COLOR Aw, that’s very thoughtful, but I don’t believe we’ve made an appointment. BW -That’s why I’m socially significant. COLOR How can you be socially simplicant? People don’t care about you. BW People are stupid! COLOR cups his hands over his face. He sits down. BW Like I said, I wouldn’t expect you to understand. BW stands and looks into the distance. Again, three feet in front of him is a white wall. BW I want to explore every meadow, every valley, every soul. COLOR crawls towards the chair. BW turns around, notices this, and quickly sits. COLOR Godamnit, man. You know you don’t care about that shit. All you care about is opposing me. You’re bitter about not being popular, so you’re like, “Maybe I’ll just sit here and be quiet because he wouldn’t.” BW starts snickering. COLOR What? BW Hm? Oh, no, it’s just… COLOR Just what? BW Just you trying to think. COLOR Listen to yourself! You’re just…sitting in that stupid chair, but you think that all you have to do to not be stupid is to do the opposite of me. BW Simply…dizzying. COLOR Well thank you. BW Now get out. COLOR hears the sound of a car zooming by outside. COLOR Okay, look, I’m--let’s start over. K? I’ll go back out, I’ll ask if I can come in, you’ll, ya know, you’ll say yes; we’ll, we’ll start over. BW I can think of nothing more depressing. COLOR I’m sorry, alright? What else do you want me to say? I need this room. BW You should’ve thought about that before you decided to launch a box of cigarettes—plebian cigarettes—at my head. COLOR Aww…he’s a baby, too. BW Stop talking down to me. I’m smarter than you. COLOR Ew, sounds threatening. COLOR kneels towards BW to the point where their foreheads almost touch. BW I’m sorry. I needn’t resort to violence to deal with my problems. COLOR grabs the legs of the chair. BW Personally, I feel it’s primitive and— COLOR lifts the front legs of the chair, flipping it and BW backwards. BW hits the ground. BW does not move or make a sound. His feet are propped at a forty-five degree angle in the air. The corners of BW’s lips start spastically shriveling downwards. COLOR I’ve gotta get out of here. COLOR starts to walk out. BW aches while he slowly rises from the floor. BW Wait! COLOR What is it? Back on feet, BW straggles. BW Where are you going? COLOR Somewhere else. BW You don’t…need the room? COLOR (aggressive, angrily eyeing BW up and down) I’ve been in here for like 10 minutes and nothing’s happened. Out there’s looking pretty damn good. Turns and, once again, begins to walk away. BW It’s not safe out there! COLOR walks back to BW. COLOR (grizzled) Yeah, well…neither am I. BW That doesn’t make sense. COLOR Ta ta. BW Can I come? COLOR You gotta be kidding. BW Please? COLOR Yoga-time maxed-out or something? BW It just…doesn’t feel right in here. Pause. COLOR Any artsy bullshit and I— BW Okay! I promise! COLOR That means if you start to bore me— BW Do whatever you want! COLOR —and if you claim it’s coz I don’t “get” you— BW I understand. Understood. COLOR One more thing. There’s not gonna be any of that “Yay! We realize we need each other” cute stuff. Okay? BW Why not? COLOR Cuz it’s gay. BW And contrived, I suppose. COLOR So we have an agreement? BW We agree to agree to disagree. COLOR pauses with a blank stare. COLOR Whatever. We’re getting off track here, so let’s… BW Shhhh! COLOR (quietly) What is it? BW tilts his head and eyes towards the audience. BW He’s listening. COLOR Ah. BW He’s right out there. Just don’t call attention to that kind of stuff. COLOR I thought he was into the whole admitting-your-wrongdoings thing. BW Sh! COLOR Why do you care what he thinks in the first place? BW Stop. COLOR Isn’t it wrong to let anything get in the way of your search for truth? BW is heard crying from off-screen. BW Why’d you have to ask that? COLOR What’s wrong with it? BW It’s just…I don’t know the answer to it. COLOR So just forget about all that shit. As long as you roll in the dough… BW It’s not so easy for me. COLOR Why? BW cries harder. BW I’m scared of dying! I want to be loved. COLOR Okay, now— BW I’m a waste of existence! You know that people, albeit stupid people, love you. He’s all I’ve got! COLOR looks away, solemnly. COLOR No he’s not. BW What? Are you saying…? COLOR snaps out of his stupor, turns, and grabs BW’s arm. COLOR Listen, we’ve got…to pace ourselves! We can talk about this later, but for now we’ve got to get the hell out of here. COLOR moves his head closer to BW. COLOR Do you understand? BW (sniffling) Am I sensing something pent up? COLOR Do you wanna be stabbed in the face? BW Won’t bring it up. COLOR Let’s go. COLOR kicks the door open. EXT. LOT DAY (full color) They both walk outside. Complete silence. Across the parking lot, a man scribbles on a clipboard. He is in his 50’s, wearing a suit and glasses, and sporting a nametag that says “Hello! My Name Is: Critic.” He occasionally shifts focus from his clipboard to the twosome. COLOR and BW glance at one another. COLOR That him? BW nods. Without hesitation, COLOR walks across the parking lot, yanks the clipboard from the man’s hands, and knees it in half. He then pulls out a knife, and after a quick cut to the clipboard, we see blood splatter onto it, dotting the “i” on the word “self-important.” BW’s eyes widen and his jaw drops. As sirens begin to faintly sound in the distance, he pivot-turns back towards the door and walks inside. He sits back down in his chair and looks around the room. COLOR opens the door slightly and pops his head inside. Attempting to be covert, he wipes blood off his hand with a handkerchief. For a few moments, the two stare at one another in silence. COLOR You gonna be in here long? CUT TO BLACK THE END Last edited by woodysinger; 07-21-2007 at 08:31 PM.. 
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#2
07-21-2007, 11:03 PM
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Anyone? Please?
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#4
07-21-2007, 11:47 PM
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Okay. Could you be any more specific?
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#5
07-22-2007, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
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#6
07-22-2007, 12:41 AM
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We didn't have an overall message, but rather, we threw in a bunch of ideas. I guess we wanted to examine the conflict between "commercial" and "artistic" films in a very direct, and hopefully interesting/entertaining way, so we cast these types of movies as people to see what would happen if they were forced to confront each other. In doing so, we were also hoping to examine the fans of each of the two types of films to give the script a social context. Regarding each type of film, we wanted to illustrate how, for instance, "commercial" movies are more about escapism and easy viewing. More originally, we wanted to demonstrate how many artistic movies purport to be more "challenging" but are actually just looking to oppose the contents of "mainstream" movies, and that the filmmakers and fans of this branch of film have flocked to it as an easy way to seem intelligent. They know it's considered smart to think that "mainstream" means bad, which it sometimes does, but they forget why, and so instead of doing their own thing and being true to themselves, they merely do the opposite of everything they see in mainstream movies (for example, creating a very slowly paced movie that irritates people just so they can scoff at them when they criticize it). With the critic at the end, we are trying to point out that more "artistic" movies are often just as concerned with pleasing an audience, albeit a different type, and that through this mutual enemy, COLOR and BW are able to bond, possibly suggesting that the two might not be able to exist without each other. The circularity of their lives, as introduced at the very end, is the result of their devotion to upstaging and besting each other, and to catering to audiences. We are trying to suggest that neither will escape this conflict until they become less occupied with each other and more concerned with being honest and true to themselves. I really don't mean to intellectualize or anything, but I seem unable to help it, and I'm trying to make sure I get in everything. Maybe I'm doing this out of desperation, but I'm not sure. The last part, about the circularity, is supposed to be more interpretive...and hopefully thought-provoking, with many of the previous lines and actions serving as material for such thought. Also, we were trying to make it funny. Apparently, though, we've been somewhat unsuccessful in communicating these ideas, so any suggestions would be great.
Last edited by woodysinger; 07-22-2007 at 12:44 AM..
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#7
07-23-2007, 05:16 AM
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I sincerely apologize. I truly did not intend for my previous post to be so annoying that it would virtually freeze this section of the board for about two days. Any other comments/suggestions? Pretty please?
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#8
07-23-2007, 10:27 PM
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I didn't get any of that.
I think it might help if what the two characters were doing was in some way a reflection of the themes you're trying to discuss. For example, independent films tend be slower and more character driven, while commercial films will have more action. So something where that that comes directly into play might be more interesting. Maybe they're both trying to solve a crime and their two approaches come at odds. I really didn't feel like there was a story there to ground what you're saying. Or should I say that what story there was simply didn't engage me. I think for something like this engagement is very important. Also -- and this is a tangential issue -- I think your characterization of commercial vs independent film is incredibly shallow.
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#9
07-24-2007, 02:11 AM
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"More originally, we wanted to demonstrate how many artistic movies purport to be more "challenging" but are actually just looking to oppose the contents of "mainstream" movies, and that the filmmakers and fans of this branch of film have flocked to it as an easy way to seem intelligent."
What a pretentious load of crap. Sorry, I'm calling you out on that. It's total bullshit. You're reacting not against "challenging" films, but to your rather ignorant perception of "challenging" films. You're pandering in cliches and stereotypes about a type of film you don't enjoy, therefore don't watch, and therefore don't have much in the way of real knowledge about. A script like this might work if it was made by somebody who didn't have an agenda, who actually loved and appreciated both types of films. But you don't - and it's obvious from your script that you don't. I'm curious, can you name a couple of films which inspired your comments about "challenging" films. I'm curious what films you're actually talking about.
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#10
07-24-2007, 02:46 AM
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I didn't say there's no such thing as a challenging film. I said that many movies purport to be but aren't. You've never seen a movie that alleged to be about something but instead turned out to be quite empty? Movies are criticized for that all the time! I think it's a little ridiculous to berate me for dismissing some movies as, essentially, pretentious, and then turn around and do the same thing to my comments. I don't have an agenda against either type of film. In the script, we tried to highlight the potential good and bad qualities of each. You can honestly tell me that, based solely on the script and not at all on my post, it is clear that we favor one type of film over the other? I only focused on independent movies in my post because I feel that mainstream movies have had their share of criticism, but that often independent movies get off more easily simply because they are independent. To be honest, I'd pick a thoughtful movie over a more commercial movie any day (not that the two are mutually exclusive), so much so that it pains me to even have to write that, and I feel it is precisely because less commercial movies have more potential that they deserve the most scrutiny when their filmmakers seem to be simply coasting.
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#11
07-24-2007, 04:52 PM
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Yes, I thought you were pandering to stereotypes about those types of films when I was reading the script. Absolutely.
And, again, I'd be curious for you to name some examples that inspired your "BW" character in the script.
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#12
07-24-2007, 08:01 PM
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First of all, my question was whether you thought we were stereotyping one in a more favorable manner than the other. If you felt we were pandering to stereotypes of each film equally, that would be fine, because, after all, these films CAN be considered types, and these types consist of various characteristics. If you did believe we were favoring COLOR over BW, that would be a serious problem with the script, and one that would definitely require changing. I admit I think it would be a little odd if that were the case, because then the script would not at all represent how we feel about the type of film.
Your question about which films inspired BW's character is, I believe, a loaded one. It is a matter of personal taste, which I feel has no bearing on the validity of my general argument about their existence. I believe if you started a topic on "Pretentious, Empty Films" you will get a slew of suggestions. If you were simply curious as to which ones inspired the character, that would be another story. But I don't want to distract from the script itself any more than I already have by giving you an opportunity to chide me for selecting films that you "completely got." It seems that you're annoyed by my justification of the script, and not so much (or at least AS much) by the script itself. That much I can completely understand. I'm annoyed with myself for that post, honestly, and am quite embarrassed by it. I was in a desperate state of mind, scrambling to find every way possible to defend the script, and it came across as arrogant and pretentious. For that, I apologize.
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#13
07-25-2007, 02:17 AM
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I agree with Nima that I dont really feel that you're effectively telling a story.
More importantly, I dont see how your film can work visually (i.e. how you'd translate this onscreen). How can you depict these men,"Color" and "BW," to represent that which you want it to represent? Will people be able to obviously tell who these characters are and what they're arguing about? I don't know whether I'd make the connections that you'd want me to make if I were to see this film. As much as it might sting to hear, this probably more pretentious than the independent films that you dislike (and I'm completely disregarding the alleged pretention/arrogance in the post you made in response to Nima). Think about it this way. If I were to turn on your film, I would know nothing about your characters and I would be trying to figure out who they are and what they're doing. In fact, I'd have to figure this out immediately. I'm playing charades till I do figure it out and it can be distracting. In fact, if it isn't obvious, most people would give up and turn it off. As I picture myself "watching" your screenplay, I can't see where I'd be able to figure out where these men are what they represent. Another problem I have is that you have nothing that is remotely entertaining that hooks the attention of the audience. Based on the descriptions you've provided, I had no investment in the characters and there was nothing in the action that hooked me into your story. In fact, I still don't really see a story that I could pinpoint from your work. Last edited by inglourious basterd; 07-25-2007 at 02:32 AM..
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#14
07-25-2007, 04:54 AM
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Very helpful suggestions. Thank you so much. I’m completely convinced the story is not being told effectively. I’ll probably take Nima’s advice on that matter and make the action/story more directly reflect the themes by showing how each character would go about the same task in a different way. I feel we did that a little bit with the critic at the end, but it would be a good idea to apply that to the rest of the script. Thank you so much for pointing out the difficulty in determining what character represented what. We’ll definitely have to include more indicators of that, which I think a story more directly related to the themes might help.
But regarding your comments that we have “nothing that is remotely entertaining that hooks the attention of the audience” and, as you might have guessed, “This is probably more pretentious than the independent films that you dislike,” I just don’t understand how either of those are the case, particularly considering the feedback we received when we submitted the far rougher version of this script about 2 years ago. I mean, Ares2907 said, "I actually quite liked this. I think with a little more thought and some work, you could make this quite a strong piece," and, Ronaldinho himself, despite mentioning that he did not get through it, said, “It seemed witty and reasonably clever, but then it sort of ran out of steam, and started to feel artificial; there was no inherent drama and so it ran out of gas.” Of course they had their criticisms, but I just don’t understand how the apparently unanimous belief that the script is wholly pretentious and unentertaining could be true in light of those comments. And the version of the script we previously posted had sickening exchanges of dialogue that dragged on and on. The majority of the changes we made to the script were based on the suggestions we received after the last time we posted. Since then, we took several parts out, cleaned up others, and just tried to make it an overall faster, more fun read. Perhaps we were not as successful as we needed to be, but it's depressing to think that we might have actually made it worse.
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#15
07-25-2007, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
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I'm wondering whether you had trouble figuring out how to rewrite your actions. If so, I'd recommend checking a couple of well-written scripts in the "scripts" forum. I'd recommend Lethal Weapon, Scream, and Panic Room. Yes -- they're action/horror films, but they're really good examples of how to write actively and succinctly. Last edited by inglourious basterd; 07-25-2007 at 06:20 AM..
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#16
07-25-2007, 12:22 PM
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The question about what films BW is based on is, probably, pandering, but it's also an important one.
Because, you see, I recognize elements of what COLOR's borrowing from. I don't feel like you're bastadizing the movies to present them in this context. But I don't recognize similar elements from BW. On the contrary, I recognize cliches that, in my experience, are not born in reality. It's the difference between a cliche embraced with knowledge and love and a cliche embraced with ignorance and dislike - the difference between Chris Rock's famous monolog about "N******" and a confederate racist saying the same word. So, yes, while it's quite possible that I'd disagree with your choices, that I wouldn't think the films you're attacking are empty and pretentious or whatever, I think it's still a question that you shouldn't dodge. Why? Because good writing comes from specifics. The more accurate, the more precise your jabs at "art house films" are, the more compelling the story will be, and the more you'll be able to get people who actually love those films to laugh along with you.
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#17
07-25-2007, 03:36 PM
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Sorry this is so long.
Psudoazn, thanks very much for looking at the earlier draft and comparing. I'll revise some of it to reconcile between yours and Ares's suggestions. I'll definitely check out those screenplays. Was it mainly the earlier descriptions that you thought were more effective, or did you think the dialogue from that excerpt was also much different/better? Thank you again very much for your time and suggestions! Ronaldinho, first, I didn't mean to suggest you would like ALL movies I would call pretentious and empty. It's hard to believe you might, in my experience (which I know is far less than yours) be the only person who has never seen a movie you thought fell into either category, which you seem to be implying. If I misinterpreted your claims, I'm sure there are some movies you may have found pretentious and empty that I didn't. I'm sorry if I'm sounding like an ass, because I really don't mean to, and I know, again, you've had much more experience and are much more knowledgeable on the subject than myself, but I'm just trying to defend against what I feel are your persistent attempts to be condescending even in spite of what I'm actually saying. If we can get into specifics with the script, it's hard to believe you feel I'm treating his character with scorn, or at least with any more scorn than COLOR. There are many times where, I feel, we handled him affectionately, particularly when his vulnerability is exposed, like after COLOR knocks him to the ground and he reveals that he doesn't want COLOR to leave him. Or when he cries towards the end and says that he wants to be loved and is scared of dying. Or when, in shock, he runs back inside after COLOR stabs the critic. Often what we tried to do with the characters was imagine what one would be like based on the perspective of a fan of the other type of film. For instance, how mainstream audiences see independent films (which is why, for superficial purposes at the beginning, we lumped them in with foreign films) and how fans of independent movies see mainstream movies, which is why they might come off as caricatures. So they were kind of created out of opposition to each other, which is why one will often be defending himself against the other's attacks. But that's not all that went into the establishing of their characters, and BW was born from specifics. I was just reluctant to announce them given the context. But if you need some names, the image of the character that would pop in my head when we were being more critical was, for whatever reason, Steve Coogan in Coffee and Cigarettes, hence the reference to that movie at the beginning: "All you do is sit there with your coffee and cigarettes and -." When being more affectionate towards the character, the image I had in mind was, again for whatever reason, Marcello Mastroianni in 8 1/2. Last edited by woodysinger; 07-25-2007 at 04:16 PM..
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#18
07-30-2007, 05:24 PM
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Lumping foreign films in with indepedant is very narrow minded, and i doubt you'll find many people from the general public thinking they're the same thing or acting the same towards them. So 8 1/2 was definately not an independant movie and if you have these kind of films in mind with you BW character something's wrong. Coffee and Cigarettes i can understand, many people i saw it with hated it for similar reasons you state throughout your script.
Overall: like many said, it's not very interesting. It's a very interesting idea, but your execution of it fails save for a couple of lines of witty dialouge. I also felt like Ronaldinho while reading it that the writer(s) of this script have an obvious preference for Color mainstream movies, the fact that you say the opposite only means that it's not written well. Color dominates in jokes, strength, overall 'coolness', and when BW was talking about exploring human life I was yawning even though i find that particular subject interesting in real life. So something is wrong in the execution. Nima gave you the best advice i think, go with that. As a note though, i think this would work much better as a staged play. That way you can include theatre in as well and make it clear that without theatre neither would exist. DMM
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#19
08-02-2007, 12:03 PM
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Even the examples you cite in your last post, Woody, didn't strike me as real, emotional moments. In particular, the "don't leave me" moment - no, I didn't get it as humanizing. I got it at condescending towards BW.
You've chosen to reference at least one film which I have no intention of defending - I pretty much can't stand the entire Jarmusch catalog. Nevertheless, this helps me make the point I wanted to make, which is, well ... that if you want to parody that film, fine, if you want to reference it, fine, but you're not actually getting deep enough in this to do either. To effectively parody something you need to have embraced it's essence, in some way. Otherwise you're just taking cheap pot-shots, but you're not even really doing that here, either. Of course, clearly that's not all that you're trying to do since a lot of the points you try to score here don't have anything to do with that film (the black & white thing, the subtitles thing ...) The reason I was hammering on you about what films you were trying to send up, here, is because all good writing flows from specifics. Where are the "coffee and cigarettes" specifics here? Where are the beats that somebody who loves that film (if you can find him) are going to recognize and laugh at? The reason why I'm hammering you on "art house films" more than "mainstream movies" is because I recognize more moments from "Color" which fit - yes, you're using cliches, but they're the cliches the movies themselves actually use. Whereas the cliches you're using for "Art house films" don't, to my mind, strike me as being the sort of impressions someone who doesn't actually watch that kind of movie would have about them.
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