#1  
Old 07-18-2009, 12:03 AM
Conspiracy Theories, Hoaxes, and Myths, OH MY!

Title explains it. Started out as a conspiracy theory thread but expanded it to myths and hoaxes (such as Aliens, Big Foot, Paranormal Activity, all that. Before we start let me state the obvious. This is all for fun, you can share your opinion and what not on one or what not, but do not judge others no matter what they think. Anyway, here are a few starters.



The Subject: Kurt Cobain's "Suicide"

The Conspiracy It was a murder set up by Courtney Love to appear as though it was a suicide.

The Evidence

-The Shotgun was so long, he would have had to use his toes to pull the trigger, but he was wearing shoes.

-The Heroine in his system was 3 times the lethal limit, so even if he somehow did survive that amount, he would be in no shape to pull a trigger.

-Courtney Love claimed to be Kurt's mom when she filed the missing person's report

-El Duce came forward and said Courtney Love offered him 50 grand to kill kurt, only to be found dead in a car "accident" not long after.

-The note found at the scene by the police was immediately labeled as a "suicide note." The police report states it was "apparently written by Cobain to his wife and daughter, explaining why he had killed himself."
But this note was not addressed to Kurt's wife and daughter and it says nothing about "killing himself!" This note was clearly written to Cobain's fans telling them he was quitting the music business. There was only a short footnote to Courtney and Frances and the handwriting contained in those lines has been questioned by several handwriting experts.

-many more at http://www.justiceforkurt.com and http://www.cobaincase.com

Do I Believe it?

Actually, this is one of the few I do. There's a lot of questionable stuff that went on. I recommend everyone watch the documentary "Kurt and Courtney", it is a really interesting look at this case.



Subject: The Moon Landing

The Theory: It never happened

The Evidence:

- The Shuttle left no imprint when taking off

- The Flag waves despite no air on the moon

- Many photo's appear to be doctored

- There were many deaths of key detractors of NASA and the Apollo Missions

-More on the theory http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmicapollo.html

Do I Believe It?

I think we landed, I think weird stuff goes out in space, though I do think Nasa could have doctored photos, not to cover up a hoax, but to make them more "sexy".

You Got Any?

Last edited by john_rambo; 07-18-2009 at 01:54 PM..
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  #2  
Old 07-18-2009, 12:24 AM
The Kurt one, I've never really paid attention to. It's like Biggie and Tupac: shut up already. No one knows what happened, no one will, just get over it and on with it.

But the moon one; we landed. You can look on googlemoon and see where we landed. Not to mention that we placed reflectors on the moon that we continually shoot lasers at that bounce right back to us to tell us exactly, to the millimeter, how far away the moon is from us at any given day/point/time.
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  #3  
Old 07-18-2009, 12:27 AM
There are a significant amount of inconsistencies in the Cobain case, but there is also a lot of damning behavioural evidence, such as his suicide attempt in Rome not long before his eventual death.

Hard to say exactly what happened.

People landed on the moon. I really don't know how any conspiracy has gotten this far.
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  #4  
Old 07-18-2009, 12:32 AM
Some of that moon landing stuff is pretty convincing though.
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  #5  
Old 07-18-2009, 12:38 AM
Oh goody.

My favorite conspiracy theory is the one where the world is secretly ruled by a species of shapeshifting reptiles. It's so perfect in its level of monstrous paranoia, this They Live idea that there are those among us who are not human a.k.a. eeevvvviiiilll, that breeds such an inherent distrust, it would be interesting to really dig into those morons like David Icke who spread this shit and see whether they have an agenda of their own (despite farming money from saps of course), or whether they're genuinely insane.

P.S. First person to mention 2012 gets kicked in the e-nuts.
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  #6  
Old 07-18-2009, 12:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarmy Douche View Post
Oh goody.

My favorite conspiracy theory is the one where the world is secretly ruled by a species of shapeshifting reptiles. It's so perfect in its level of monstrous paranoia, this They Live idea that there are those among us who are not human a.k.a. eeevvvviiiilll, that breeds such an inherent distrust, it would be interesting to really dig into those morons like David Icke who spread this shit and see whether they have an agenda of their own (despite farming money from saps of course), or whether they're genuinely insane.
Reptiles? Dare I ask, wtf are you babbling about?
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  #7  
Old 07-18-2009, 01:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackson13 View Post
Reptiles? Dare I ask, wtf are you babbling about?
Believe me, it's a testament to you having a well-rounded life and good company that you've never heard of this one, I've roomed with some very weird people and one of them truly believed this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilian_humanoid
http://www.davidicke.com/index.php/
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  #8  
Old 07-18-2009, 01:08 AM
From Roswell to Men In Black, aliens have been popular with conspiracy theorists.



Do I believe? I can't really say that I'm a skeptic. I can't bring myself to believe that Earth is the only planet with life, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarmy Douche View Post
Oh goody.

My favorite conspiracy theory is the one where the world is secretly ruled by a species of shapeshifting reptiles. It's so perfect in its level of monstrous paranoia, this They Live idea that there are those among us who are not human a.k.a. eeevvvviiiilll, that breeds such an inherent distrust, it would be interesting to really dig into those morons like David Icke who spread this shit and see whether they have an agenda of their own (despite farming money from saps of course), or whether they're genuinely insane.

P.S. First person to mention 2012 gets kicked in the e-nuts.
I remember that one! I was really excited when there was that rumor about the next Wright/Pegg/Frost movie involving that. Turned out to be false though. Sad. I definitely don't believe it, I feel I should add.
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  #9  
Old 07-18-2009, 01:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarmy Douche View Post
Believe me, it's a testament to you having a well-rounded life and good company that you've never heard of this one, I've roomed with some very weird people and one of them truly believed this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilian_humanoid
http://www.davidicke.com/index.php/
That just might be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read in my entire life.

Ever.
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  #10  
Old 07-18-2009, 01:15 AM
more ridiculous than this?

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  #11  
Old 07-18-2009, 01:38 AM
This one is my favorite:





MOTHMAN

Quote:
The weird events connected to the Mothman began on November 12, 1966 near Clendenin, West Virginia. Five men were in the local cemetery that day, preparing a grave for a burial, when something that looked like a “brown human being” lifted off from some nearby trees and flew over their heads. The men were baffled. It did not appear to be a bird, but more like a man with wings. A few days later, more sightings would take place, electrifying the entire region.
Read on here:

http://www.prairieghosts.com/moth.html
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  #12  
Old 07-18-2009, 02:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarmy Douche View Post
Believe me, it's a testament to you having a well-rounded life and good company that you've never heard of this one, I've roomed with some very weird people and one of them truly believed this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilian_humanoid
http://www.davidicke.com/index.php/
This guy is the plucky hero who's seemingly insane theories no one believes until it's too late and all is forever lost.
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  #13  
Old 07-18-2009, 04:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarmy Douche View Post
Oh goody.

My favorite conspiracy theory is the one where the world is secretly ruled by a species of shapeshifting reptiles. It's so perfect in its level of monstrous paranoia, this They Live idea that there are those among us who are not human a.k.a. eeevvvviiiilll, that breeds such an inherent distrust, it would be interesting to really dig into those morons like David Icke who spread this shit and see whether they have an agenda of their own (despite farming money from saps of course), or whether they're genuinely insane.

P.S. First person to mention 2012 gets kicked in the e-nuts.

Yeah, you can actually find some youtube videos where people claim proof of new anchors or politicians shape shifting on camera.

Here's one, but you can just type in "reptilian" on their search and there's tons - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFpes9qWMj4





A good read, one of my favorite books, is Robert Anton Wilson's Everything is Under Control --- it's an encyclopedia of conspiracy theories, written with the theories in alphabetical order, but it also has a subtle narration that pokes fun at the reader... or maybe I came up with my own conspiracy about the book... Knowing the writer though, he definitely fucks with context and word usage. It's a funny read for that reason, but also touches on tons of theories, many I'd never heard of. When I get back home, I'll post some on here from the book.

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  #14  
Old 07-18-2009, 04:52 AM
I honestly belive that the moon landing video and images are fake. It was done for more of the politics at the time b/w Russia. I mean, 2001 (the film) is believable enough which was done before the moonlanding (if i'm not mistaken), and besides there would be enouhg money to cover it up and fake everything from this point to today quite easily and still have us believe it without question. Theres many good reason's/ for and against, i aplaud both, but i just find it odd that we havn't had anything as big with the moon since (how about a new video on the moon with something bigger?), considering the tech of back then compared to now.

The tech they used back then to get there and the cost would have become significantly easier and cheaper as the years progressed, so why not? Obviously there's much better things to do, we have still so much left undiscovered in our own planet, but still it irks me. Once you start doing something succesfully you don't just stop....sex, stealing, drugs, moonlanding (), it's all the same.

Last edited by rilocay; 07-18-2009 at 04:57 AM..
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  #15  
Old 07-18-2009, 05:00 AM
Why?

1. It costs a fuck ton of money to go to the moon

2. It's a pile of grey dust.

The space race ended. There was no reason to keep going back there. The political victory was had.

Of course now that there's speculation that the moon has a large heluim 3 deposit and may serve beneficial in helping launch a manned mission to Mars, interest has been renewed.
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  #16  
Old 07-18-2009, 08:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brendan M. View Post
MOTHMAN

I own John Keel's book that chronicals all of the events. Very, very, different than what was adapted into the movie, but a very good read as well. I dont believe in much, but after reading about those people, all of their stories, everything that happened and was documented....I'm a believer.
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  #17  
Old 07-18-2009, 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackson13 View Post
I own John Keel's book that chronicals all of the events. Very, very, different than what was adapted into the movie, but a very good read as well. I dont believe in much, but after reading about those people, all of their stories, everything that happened and was documented....I'm a believer.

I have family from that area, and grew up with them telling me stories swearing they'd seen it or knew people who had. They were sane/smart people, though they did like to spin a good yarn, so I never knew how to take it.
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  #18  
Old 07-18-2009, 10:18 AM
Brand new proof of the stuff we left on the Moon.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2....htm?list17745
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  #19  
Old 07-18-2009, 11:33 AM
I bit the Love one. One of my friends has been obsessive about it since Junior High. One time, in Physics class while we were in High School, a classmate said Kurt commited suicide and he went off on them. He began a, what must of been, 10+ minute speech about how Courtney Love killed him and the classmate was so shocked and lost that she couldn't even respond.

Even if Courtney Love somehow didn't kill him, she's still a disgusting and vile human being. Another part of the evidence you didn't mention is that Cobain was in the middle of divorcing her-- and there's part of your motive.

Here's an awesome list of real conspiracies that'll blow your obsessive load: http://www.cracked.com/article_15974...-happened.html

The Fascist coup:
Quote:
In 1933, group of wealthy businessmen that allegedly included the heads of Chase Bank, GM, Goodyear, Standard Oil, the DuPont family and Senator Prescott Bush tried to recruit Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler to lead a military coup against President FDR and install a fascist dictatorship in the United States. And yes, we're talking about the same Prescott Bush who fathered one US President and grandfathered another one.

A good rule of thumb: never trust a man named Smedley to run your hostile military coup for you. Besides being no fan of fascism, Smedley Butler was both a patriot and a vocal FDR supporter. Apparently none of these criminal masterminds noticed that their prospective point man had actively stumped for FDR in 1932.

Smedley spilled the beans to a congressional committee in 1934. Everyone he accused of being a conspirator vehemently denied it, and none of them were brought up on criminal charges. Still, the House McCormack-Dickstein Committee did at least acknowledge the existence of the conspiracy, which ended up never getting past the initial planning stages.

Though many of the people who had allegedly backed the Business Plot also maintained financial ties with Nazi Germany up through America's entry into World War II. But at least the United States never ended up becoming a fascist dictatorship (unless you ask Ron Paul supporters).

The lesson here? Fascist or not, you don't fuck around with guys named Smedley or Dickstein.
The Tuskegee Experiment:
Quote:
Sometimes referred to as the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment, the idea was that the United States government was going to monitor the effects of syphilis and perform experiments on those who had a developed form of the disease. That doesn't sound so bad, right? Well you're a terrible person for thinking that, because the experiments were exclusively performed without consent, and on the very poor, mostly illiterate black males.

These men weren't told that they had syphilis and were denied proper treatment for their disease. Because that would have skewed the results, you see. But hey, at least the government promised free burials to those who died.

The study (started in 1932 in Tuskegee, Alabama) eventually rounded up 400 black men in a move that would inspire Rage Against the Machine-esque lyrics for years to come. But, contrary to conspiracy enthusiasts, they did not actually give people syphilis, they just examined the symptoms of people who already had the disease. Then, things got out of hand:

Doctor 1: "Darn. I'm afraid that we might not get the numbers we want for the next part of this study."

Doctor 2: "Why is that?"

Doctor 1: "Because it involves administering a painful and dangerous spinal tap for no medical reason."

Doctor 2: "Hmm ... Well, why don't we just underline the word "Free" and tell them that it's a special treatment for their symptoms."

Doctor 1: "But, wouldn't that be a horrible lie?"

Doctor 2: "A horrible what?"

When there was a national campaign to use penicillin to stamp out the disease, those in the study were denied access. If they complained loudly enough, they were given a placebo and then sent back home to die. But not before scientists poked and prodded them for the remaining years of their life.

It took until 1972 for someone to blow the whistle on all of this. That's 40 years. And that's after Peter Buxtun, the whistle blower, went to the Center for Disease Control, which told him that they would absolutely end this barbaric experiment, just as soon as they completed the last stage of the study. That stage involved studying the corpses of the subjects, and of course they couldn't do that quite yet because some were stubbornly still alive.

As a result, in 1974 they passed the National Research Act, which finally closed the apparent loophole in American law that said it was OK for mad scientists to kill people in their experiments.
Operation Snow White/ The Revenge of Scientology:
Quote:
Some time during the 1970s, the Church of Scientology decided that they'd had enough. Their religion about magic space aliens in a volcano wasn't getting the same respect as the religion about the magic bearded man whose dad made us all out of mud 6,000 years ago. Instead of converting to a slightly less silly religion, they did what any of us would have done and decided to destroy every single document that made their religion look bad, presumably including a trip into the future to destroy every copy of Battlefield Earth.

Disturbingly well, at least for a little while. Apparently, the Church of Scientology managed to perform the largest infiltration of the United States government in history. Ever. With all the people who have wanted to get their dirty little hands on incriminating records, the United States of America was finally duped by the people who came up with Dianetics. So those billions of dollars we put into national security annually are clearly well spent.

Anyway, somewhere around 5,000 of Scientology's crack commandos wiretapped and burglarized various agencies. They stole hundreds of documents, mainly from the IRS. No critic was spared, and in the end, 136 organizations, agencies and foreign embassies were infiltrated.

When all of this hit the fan, the Church naturally denied it. Then they kidnapped one of the operatives arrested for stealing documents and prevented him from testifying. These days, the Church of Scientology generally refuses to talk about Operation Snow White, except to say that they "purged" those who were involved. They won't say what the guilty parties were involved in, and those who were purged still hold high ranking offices in the Church, but goddamn it, they were purged for their involvement.


and the big one...

Project MKULTRA:
Quote:
Don't be fooled. Project MKULTRA isn't the misspelled secret recipe to McDonald's newest hamburger. It was actually a series of CIA experiments in which they tried to figure out how to control your mind. Over a hundred sub-projects were authorized under the MKULTRA heading, though the documents on many of those have been destroyed.

If you listen to late night talk radio, then you've probably already heard of Project MKULTRA. Paranoid schizophrenics from coast to coast like to call in to recount their harrowing tales of psychic violation at the hands of the CIA. Turns out the schizophrenics got something right though, because Project MKULTRA was an actual series of experiments started on April 13, 1953.

You can decide for yourself whether or not the late-night radio callers are actually victims of these experiments, though we would like to suggest that if they are all telling the truth, it's strange that the CIA would only experiment on nocturnal conspiracy-nuts.

The project started out as a response to rumors of Communist mind control being used on American prisoners from the Korean War. Afraid of being left in the enemy's pseudo-scientific dust, the CIA quickly jumped on the mind control bandwagon. However, they got their procedures wrong in one crucial aspect; instead of experimenting on enemy prisoners that the national media wouldn't miss, they decided to go ahead and start jamming probes and shooting drugs into unwitting United States citizens.

Did we mention that these experiments resulted in at least one death? Or that experiments done on people seeking treatment for minor psychological issues (such as anxiety) often caused them to suffer permanent comas and/or incontinence? Or that the CIA themselves admitted that the experiments made no scientific sense?

The project was eventually found out, and the CIA was given a stern talking to.

As far as anyone can tell, they were unable to succeed in finding a way to control the way people act or think. Though we'd probably say the same thing if they had succeeded.




Quote:
Originally Posted by john_rambo View Post
Hey, Zardoz is a classic!
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  #20  
Old 07-18-2009, 12:28 PM
I dunno if this counts as a conspiracy theory, or whatever (probably not?), but I've had an intense interest in this story ever since first hearing about it.

The Gorman Ranch, AKA The Skinwalker Ranch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinwalker_Ranch
http://www.aliendave.com/Article_Pat...walker_p1.html
http://www.aliendave.com/Article_Pat...walker_p2.html

Check it out. Some of the craziest claims or paranormal activity I've ever come across. Is it true? I dunno, but it sounds crazier than anything anybody'd be able to make up.
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  #21  
Old 07-18-2009, 01:22 PM
I believe like 90% of this series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odp1FO0Vmuw

There are like 17 or 18 parts. Be sure to watch #7

Last edited by Abbie Normal; 07-18-2009 at 01:50 PM..
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  #22  
Old 07-18-2009, 01:52 PM
Yeah Paranormal shit can be in here, maybe I'll edit the title to include that. (Maybe a Mod could change it to show up to the editted one? )

since we are adding that... I came across this pic I had seen before, but saw it again yesterday when I was lookin at Paranormal shit on wikipedia.

Photo of Lincoln's wife taken after his death.



Creepy stuff... I dunno what I believe in regards to ghosts and what not, but that is some creepy stuff. Supposedly many presidents/family members have seen his ghost around the white house too.

Last edited by john_rambo; 07-18-2009 at 02:00 PM..
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  #23  
Old 07-18-2009, 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackson13 View Post
Brand new proof of the stuff we left on the Moon.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2....htm?list17745


Those photos are about as craptastic as a conspiracy theory photo. Not to mention they're being released by NASA, the very organization being accused in of the conspiracy in question.
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  #24  
Old 07-18-2009, 04:15 PM
Never understood the nuts that thought we did not land on the moon with so much proof pointing to the fact that we did. Do not get me wrong, I have read many of the theories on why we didnt and why we couldnt and they are pretty convincing but just not true.

The only conspiracy theory I ever really cared to find out the truth about would be the JFK assassination and maybe Area 51. I am sure there is 100% for a fact an area 51 but does it contain dead alien bodies or spacecraft? That is what I want to know. Or is it some false rumor spread by the government to hide the real "area 51" which is probably in some mountain range, tucked away in vast caves? Who knows?
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  #25  
Old 07-18-2009, 06:10 PM
You gotta love Conspiracy Theories.

I have a friend who firmly believes in the 9/11 theory and he actually sent me a link to The Pentagon blowing up, the point being that the government blew it up and you never see a plane hit.

However on that very link I pointed out a plane hitting the building
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  #26  
Old 07-18-2009, 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbie Normal View Post
I believe like 90% of this series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odp1FO0Vmuw

There are like 17 or 18 parts. Be sure to watch #7
oh christ, here we go.
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  #27  
Old 07-18-2009, 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireCaptain4 View Post
Another part of the evidence you didn't mention is that Cobain was in the middle of divorcing her-- and there's part of your motive.

I don't buy that, man. Why would she give up being labeled a divorcee, and taking legal possession of half his assets, to risk being, you know, labeled a murderer. That doesn't make any sense.

My opinion is that Cobain was killed, but not by someone's hand, but by the neglect of many of the people around him. It isn't like he wrote lyrics about one day being a grandpa, for Pete's sake. Take into account his well documented personal struggles, and it's not like saying he was killed is what makes the most sense.
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  #28  
Old 07-19-2009, 01:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaStrangelove View Post
Yeah, you can actually find some youtube videos where people claim proof of new anchors or politicians shape shifting on camera.

Here's one, but you can just type in "reptilian" on their search and there's tons - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFpes9qWMj4

I'd never heard of this Reptilian Shapeshifting Humanoid stuff before. This has to be the most nutty conspiracy I've heard of yet.

That video, though, is pretty weird. What do you think is the explanation for the eye... changes?
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  #29  
Old 07-19-2009, 03:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbie Normal View Post
I believe like 90% of this series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odp1FO0Vmuw

There are like 17 or 18 parts. Be sure to watch #7
I'm not too sure about this '3rd building'. What's the story there? It wasn't in the terrorist attack was it?
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  #30  
Old 07-19-2009, 09:17 AM
i don't believe in any of the conspiracies mentioned so far though i always find them interesting. The 9/11 consiracy is ridiculous, same with the moon landing.
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  #31  
Old 07-19-2009, 10:09 AM
Is the shapeshifting reptiles conspiracy the same as the new world order crap or am I getting these two confused with eachother?

I think they are two separate conspiracy theories because my mom doesn't believe in the lizzard people conspiracy but is a believer in the new world order. Sadly, my uncle IS a believer in the lizzard people. I love my uncle but he's a nutty guy.

Last edited by ilovemovies; 07-19-2009 at 10:39 AM..
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  #32  
Old 07-19-2009, 10:28 AM
Actually, there are plenty of powerful people up top who want a one-world government (the recently passed Walter Cronkite among them). But the idea that these people are plotting to put chips in everybody and rule ze vurld, is another thing. Because there is a difference. I support a one-world nation, in an idealized world. I don't think it would ever really work, which is why people like Cronkite in particular always seemed to talk about it like a daydream.

To be fair to the conspiracy theorists, I wouldn't put it past a lot of them, any groups whose annual meetings are attended by Henry Kissinger surely doesn't have anybody's interests in mind but their own, but this conspiracy lends itself to the idea eight billion people would allow themselves to be patently enslaved, and, like the lizard conspiracy, that all members of the ruling class are actually evvvillll, and that's a level of paranoia I'm not really capable of being.

I have yet to meet anyone who wants a computer chip in them. And of all the countries of the world I've been to, they seem to enjoy sovereignty very much, thank you, including America.
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  #33  
Old 07-19-2009, 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicochetShaw View Post
That video, though, is pretty weird. What do you think is the explanation for the eye... changes?
I'm thinking some kind of video artifacts.
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  #34  
Old 07-19-2009, 12:03 PM
I had a look into the lizard people thoery...man that is weird, the random eye changes are pretty scary.

The same person who uploaded all the eye change videos uploaded a video of a Michael Jackson recording in which a lizard's face randomly appears in the background. I know he created it but still...freaky.
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  #35  
Old 07-19-2009, 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natty View Post
I'm not too sure about this '3rd building'. What's the story there? It wasn't in the terrorist attack was it?
Watch the video parts and they will explain. The first few are points and then they give you some details in the other parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odp1FO0Vmuw
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  #36  
Old 07-19-2009, 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericdraven View Post
oh christ, here we go.
So you can tell me without any shadow of doubt that buildings just fall like that because of a fire? I did not buy it when I saw it and I don't buy it now.
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  #37  
Old 07-19-2009, 04:25 PM
Because a secret CIA demolitions team is more likely?

ya ok
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  #38  
Old 07-19-2009, 04:46 PM
This is my favorite thread in the misc. forum

Shape shifting reptiles are out of this world. Keep em coming schmoes!
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  #39  
Old 07-19-2009, 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbie Normal View Post
So you can tell me without any shadow of doubt that buildings just fall like that because of a fire?
Yes.

I'm still waiting for someone to fly a jumbo jet into the Sears...Willis Tower as a "science experiment."
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  #40  
Old 07-19-2009, 05:26 PM
GW Bush and his goons were 100% behind the Towers getting destroyed. Charlie Sheen and Rosie O Donnell agree with me so it must be true!
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