#81  
Old 08-06-2010, 12:41 PM
I found I liked him much more when I watched the show again. Rather than "emotionless and cold" I think he's more just restrained, and it's a very subtle performance.

Spoiler:
When he finally cracks with that "My name is my name" moment, it's a brilliant scene. It shows that beneath that cool veneer he's just as flawed as many of the other characters--he's a power hungry thug, essentially. Everything he's ever done has been a show of force because he just wants people to respect and fear him.


But I dunno, a lot of people don't like Marlo. Either they hated the character or the performance or they were just thrown by the shift to him from such a compelling villain in Stringer Bell.
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  #82  
Old 08-06-2010, 02:03 PM
I like Marlo but like his crew 10x more. Chris and Snoop are epic.
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  #83  
Old 08-06-2010, 06:30 PM
Yeah, I'm not knockin' Chris & Snoop. They were the fuckin' shit. Smartest enforcers depicted in the entire series.
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  #84  
Old 08-06-2010, 09:21 PM
Never gonna look at a nail gun the same.
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  #85  
Old 08-07-2010, 02:20 PM
Hmm, I can see what you mean with the MacGuffin thing now that you mention it but I still think Jamie Hector is terrific, I'm just a big fan of the whole cold, calm and restrained villain, with villainous characters in TV I think we tend to get cases of actors winking at the audience and saying "hey, I'm not really like this, but aren't I jumping at the opportunity to play a baddie!" and there's not a glimpse of that with Marlo.

Chris and Snoop are great, love Snoop's drawl.
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  #86  
Old 08-10-2010, 05:46 PM
Finished Season 3 on Sunday. What a season it was. The finale was slightly underwhelming because the second last episode was so awesome, but overall the season was great. Certainly the best so far. I have since watched the first 2 episodes of Season 4 and it is obvious that it will be the best season yet. It is already just oozing with interesting characters and intriguing plot development.

Last edited by Bourne101; 08-10-2010 at 07:44 PM..
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  #87  
Old 08-10-2010, 07:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne101 View Post
Finished Season 3 on Sunday. What a season it was. The finale was slightly underwhelming because the second last episode was so awesome, but overall the season was great.
Right on. Season 3 is actually my personal favorite season, though I agree with the notion that's impossible to rank the seasons as they all make up one story. Also, as for "Middle Ground"...
Spoiler:
...its pretty fuckin' tough to top Stringer Bell gettin' deaded, by an Omar/Mouzone team-up, no less. Holy shit, that was crazy.

"Well...........................get on with it mutha--------" BANG BANG BANG BOOM!

Anyway, I know you've already started watching Season 4, but you should still check out this trailer for it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg94rUtzkz8

Not only is it unavailable anywhere else, but its one of the best, most well-put-together trailers I've ever seen.

Last edited by Smiert Spionam; 08-10-2010 at 07:45 PM..
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  #88  
Old 08-10-2010, 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiert Spionam View Post
Right on. Season 3 is actually my personal favorite season, though I agree with the notion that's impossible to rank the seasons as they all make up one story. Also, as for "Middle Ground"...
Spoiler:
...its pretty fuckin' tough to top Stringer Bell gettin' deaded, by an Omar/Mouzone team-up, no less. Holy shit, that was crazy.

"Well...........................get on with it mutha--------" BANG BANG BANG BOOM!
That's probably the best scene I have seen so far. It was perfectly executed and provided such a huge payoff. That's what I love about this show. It's all just a huge build-up and all the payoffs are perfect. Since season one the conflict between those characters just continued to build up until that episode when everything fell into place. To be able to keep those conflicts alive and woven into all the other subplots through three seasons without getting contrived is quite a feat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiert Spionam View Post
Anyway, I know you've already started watching Season 4, but you should still check out this trailer for it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg94rUtzkz8

Not only is it unavailable anywhere else, but its one of the best, most well-put-together trailers I've ever seen.
Now THAT is how you put together a trailer. Movie studios take notes.

Last edited by Bourne101; 08-10-2010 at 07:59 PM..
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  #89  
Old 08-10-2010, 09:27 PM
I finished Season 3, oddly enough, on Sunday night as well.

I actually liked the finale episode better than the penultimate one..

Spoiler:
Almost sucks to see Stringer go out like that, but he definitely dug his own grave the last few seasons. Loved how he got the last laugh as Mcnulty was just closing in on him--perfect poetic injustice. Mazoune also distracts me--I don't know how to take his character and he takes me out of the show at times.

I thought the scene of Carcetti walking through "Hamsterdam", the look on his face as he took it all in, was great, as was the final police bust up with the video shots, adding immediacy (but Rawls playing Wagner as the police raided the place? Took me out of the episode again).

There were all kinds of great secondary and tertiary characters this season, like Cutty and Slim Charles. This season to me was all about maintaining and perceiving appearances, from Carcetti to Avon to Stringer just being a big question mark to McNulty in the end. Also humorous to see McNulty in a new post every season. Great stuff--looking very forward to the next two seasons.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiert Spionam View Post
Anyway, I know you've already started watching Season 4, but you should still check out this trailer for it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg94rUtzkz8
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  #90  
Old 08-11-2010, 12:39 AM
Geez... reading the excitement of all the schmoes watching it for the first time kind of makes me want to rewatch the whole show. If only I had the time...
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  #91  
Old 08-11-2010, 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayestrain View Post
Spoiler:
Mazoune also distracts me--I don't know how to take his character and he takes me out of the show at times.
Personally, I thought he was pretty cool, but no worries, you won't be seeing him again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayestrain View Post
Spoiler:
I thought the scene of Carcetti walking through "Hamsterdam", the look on his face as he took it all in, was great, as was the final police bust up with the video shots, adding immediacy (but Rawls playing Wagner as the police raided the place? Took me out of the episode again).
Word. I grew up in a sortof shitty neighborhood and I went to HS in what is considered, apparently, to be one of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the country (personally, I don't believe that since it wasn't even the most dangerous neighborhood in my city), but when Bubbles was walkin' through Hamsterdam at night for the first time......Holy fuckin' shit. TERRIFYING!

As for Rawls playin' Wagner, I thought that shit was hilariously awesome and so him. Rawls is the shit

Last edited by Smiert Spionam; 08-11-2010 at 07:58 AM..
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  #92  
Old 08-11-2010, 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiert Spionam View Post
As for Rawls playin' Wagner, I thought that shit was hilariously awesome and so him. Rawls is the shit
Spoiler:
Got to admit, I was pretty shocked by the quick shot of Rawls at the gay bar, as Mouzone's goon was trying to track down Omar. Unexpected!
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  #93  
Old 08-15-2010, 05:29 PM
So after watching excesive amounts of The Wire, did anybody else have the strong urge to wanna shoot someone in the head?
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  #94  
Old 08-15-2010, 05:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiert Spionam View Post
So after watching excesive amounts of The Wire, did anybody else have the strong urge to wanna shoot someone in the head?
It definitely increases the anger levels, but Simon said he wanted the show to do that. Shamefully, I find myself using street slang a lot more too.
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  #95  
Old 08-15-2010, 06:18 PM
I find myself working "There you go again...givin' a fuck when it ain't your turn to give a fuck." into everyday conversation.
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  #96  
Old 08-15-2010, 07:03 PM
I have "...when it's not your turn..." written in the box under my faceboook profile pic

Its so true about myself and it gets me into a lot of trouble, but I'm working on it. Its not the worst trait to have, but yeah, it gets you into shit.
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  #97  
Old 08-15-2010, 08:07 PM
Prez is still my favourite Wire character...I went from all-out despising that fella to loving the bones offa him, such a dramatic and undeniably heartfelt turnaround that surprised the hell out of me.
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  #98  
Old 08-15-2010, 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadCoverVersion View Post
Prez is still my favourite Wire character...I went from all-out despising that fella to loving the bones offa him, such a dramatic and undeniably heartfelt turnaround that surprised the hell out of me.
While I wouldn't call him my favorite, I do think that he came full circle really well, especially in season 4, which he totally owned. Definitely a great and interesting turnaround that totally works within the dramatic frame of the series.
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  #99  
Old 08-15-2010, 08:38 PM
I really dug how, as I stated earlier in the thread, most of the characters come off as unlikable in the beginning, but as they grow, you learn to love 'em, even the douchey ones. Not necessarily because of their personalities, but because of their morals and their convictions.
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  #100  
Old 08-15-2010, 08:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiert Spionam View Post
I really dug how, as I stated earlier in the thread, most of the characters come off as unlikable in the beginning, but as they grow, you learn to love 'em, even the douchey ones. Not necessarily because of their personalities, but because of their morals and their convictions.
I agree.

Bar Herc. He is a grade-A douche from beginning to end.
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  #101  
Old 08-15-2010, 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadCoverVersion View Post
I agree.

Bar Herc. He is a grade-A douche from beginning to end.
Oh c'mon, really? Just because Herc is simpleton doesn't make him bad. Atleast he doesn't fuck over/turn on friends at the drop of a hat like some people *cough*McNulty*cough*
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  #102  
Old 08-15-2010, 10:34 PM
Yeah McNulty becomes less and less appealing as the show continues. Herc may not screw over friends, but he's not a very complex character. He simply looks out for himself above all else. I found myself appreciating Landsman by the end of the show. Yeah I hated him during the first season, as a character, the actual performance is great and the actor is quite funny as Landsman. I felt like the character redeemed himself when he took pity on Bubbles and let him go at the end of the 4th season.
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  #103  
Old 08-15-2010, 10:39 PM
Just finished Season 4 tonight. This was my reaction to the finale (specifically "the scene" that happens about 3/4 of the way through)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s
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  #104  
Old 08-15-2010, 10:49 PM
Yeah, Bourne, I was fuckin' crushed. The first thing on the show that genuinely pissed me off...
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  #105  
Old 08-15-2010, 10:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiert Spionam View Post
Yeah, Bourne, I was fuckin' crushed. The first thing on the show that genuinely pissed me off...
It's such a perfectly directed scene, tough as it is to watch. Just watching it you feel boxed in and helpless. The direction on this show is just unbelievable.
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  #106  
Old 08-15-2010, 11:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne101 View Post
It's such a perfectly directed scene, tough as it is to watch. Just watching it you feel boxed in and helpless. The direction on this show is just unbelievable.
Ready to have your mind blown?

Spoiler:
Remember the season 1 discussion about how chess pieces work? Notice how Bodie was incapable of moving very far, just like a pawn, where as Chris and Snoop approach him from the sides? Chris crosses the street diagonally like a Bishop, Snoop goes up and around a car in an "L" shape like a Knight, while O-Dog comes straight up like a Rook.

Anyway, like I said, I was really upset. I swear, I thought the series was gonna end with Bodie runnin' shit. It seemed like the series was grooming him to take over.

Last edited by Smiert Spionam; 08-15-2010 at 11:27 PM..
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  #107  
Old 08-16-2010, 02:56 AM
The interesting thing about McNulty is (and this is something that Simon carried over from Homicide) that the more engaged in his work he is, the bigger ass he is. As great as he is at the job, it eats him up and turns all of his worst character traits loose.

When he backs away from all of the interference and small minded nonsense the bosses saddle him and every other creative cop with (I've written about that here previously) and goes back to patrol, he becomes a far more stable and mature person. He only developed his relationship with Beadie and her kids after that move and it was strained again when he went back to intensive detective work as the series wound down. What was it his ex-wife (the utterly awesome Callie Thorne, who I also loved on Homicide) said when she saw him with the kids? Something like "If I'd known you were going to grow up, we might have stood a chance."

Some people, like The Bunk, know how to keep it together. To balance the proper amount of team play to stay around but not so much as to lose your edge as a detective. Jimmy could never find that balance. Even as much as a Bunk In Training as she eventually became, I'm not sure Kima is on pace to duplicate his success.

We already saw how her devotion to the job, the time and effort it took and the consequent time it stole from her relationship and personal life cause her to lose that connection. She might end up a good cop but I doubt she'll be all that happy. In quitting when he did, I think McNulty would find that path. Like Frank Pembleton, he had to walk away to keep his sanity. And as much as I loved those two characters, I found that a satisfyng way for the shows to play out.
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  #108  
Old 08-16-2010, 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiert Spionam View Post
Ready to have your mind blown?

Spoiler:
Remember the season 1 discussion about how chess pieces work? Notice how Bodie was incapable of moving very far, just like a pawn, where as Chris and Snoop approach him from the sides? Chris crosses the street diagonally like a Bishop, Snoop goes up and around a car in an "L" shape like a Knight, while O-Dog comes straight up like a Rook.

Anyway, like I said, I was really upset. I swear, I thought the series was gonna end with Bodie runnin' shit. It seemed like the series was grooming him to take over.
That's awesome. 'Nuff said.
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  #109  
Old 08-16-2010, 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiert Spionam View Post
Oh c'mon, really? Just because Herc is simpleton doesn't make him bad. Atleast he doesn't fuck over/turn on friends at the drop of a hat like some people *cough*McNulty*cough*
I gotta say, I find it really interesting that you like Herc and Rawls. I've never encountered another Wire fan who felt that way.

As for not fucking his friends over, Herc fucks over Carver big time twice and is ultimately responsible for

Spoiler:

-Randy's foster mother being killed
-Randy turning from a sweet young kid into a semi-hardened and desperate young man with no options or future
-All the season 5 work done to put Marlo away being undone and Marlo getting off
-Bubbles being beaten repeatedly to the point that he's desperate enough to make the hot shot that kills Sherrod


I think Herc does more damage to good people than Marlo, Avon, anyone but the Greek maybe. He's the most despicable character in the series for my money.

Rawls is a slimy bureaucratic fuck with no concern for justice or the citizens of Baltimore who plays dirty politics rather than doing real po-lice work too as far as I'm concerned.

They're all good characters, i.e. well-developed and compelling, but those two I don't think are remotely good people and are to blame for much of the day-to-day tragedy the show chronicles.
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  #110  
Old 08-16-2010, 07:21 PM
Good points about Herc, Quentin, but I really disagree that he did more to harm "good" people than Marlo or Avon. Even though the show goes out of its way to portray Avon as being a better guy than Marlo, he orders the murder of an innocent civilian in the very first episode. Even if Avon or Marlo don't directly hurt good people such as Randy and the other kids, their criminal organizations have vastly affected the lives of many citizens in Baltimore. Entire communities live in fear because of their tactics. The Wire is big on portraying ripple effects and almost every event in the show can be traced to a cause and effect pattern. Marlo wasn't the one who threw the molotov cocktail into Randy's home, but it was done in his honor.
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  #111  
Old 08-16-2010, 07:50 PM
Gotta agree with Quentin, those two characters really got me the angriest along with the guy that kept robbing Bubbles and that mean cop to the kids in season 4.
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  #112  
Old 08-16-2010, 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
Good points about Herc, Quentin, but I really disagree that he did more to harm "good" people than Marlo or Avon. Even though the show goes out of its way to portray Avon as being a better guy than Marlo, he orders the murder of an innocent civilian in the very first episode. Even if Avon or Marlo don't directly hurt good people such as Randy and the other kids, their criminal organizations have vastly affected the lives of many citizens in Baltimore. Entire communities live in fear because of their tactics. The Wire is big on portraying ripple effects and almost every event in the show can be traced to a cause and effect pattern. Marlo wasn't the one who threw the molotov cocktail into Randy's home, but it was done in his honor.
Yeah, it was probably hyperbolic to say they do more damage than major drug traffickers/heads of violent criminal enterprises.

I guess it'd be more accurate to say their actions pissed me off even more than Marlo and Avon's because of what should be expected of them.

Drug dealers don't have a responsibility to their community, don't pledge to make it better, we don't expect much out of them except dealing drugs and contributing to societal destruction.

Herc, Rawls, and Levy maybe piss me off more because they're hypocritical and defoul the system meant to protect people from the harm of their ostensible enemies (violent criminals) from within, which allows for Avons and Marlos to flourish. Marlo's a cold motherfucker and as you point out, Avon has a citizen killed in the first episode, but to some extent that is a part of their job and their role. The three guys noted above indifference to doing their job and singular focus on milking the system to their benefit, consequences be damned, when they're supposed to be improving things, makes them more despicable to me even if they aren't in fact more directly harmful.

Last edited by QUENTIN; 08-16-2010 at 08:18 PM..
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  #113  
Old 08-16-2010, 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QUENTIN View Post
I gotta say, I find it really interesting that you like Herc and Rawls. I've never encountered another Wire fan who felt that way.

As for not fucking his friends over, Herc fucks over Carver big time twice and is ultimately responsible for

Spoiler:

-Randy's foster mother being killed
-Randy turning from a sweet young kid into a semi-hardened and desperate young man with no options or future
-All the season 5 work done to put Marlo away being undone and Marlo getting off
-Bubbles being beaten repeatedly to the point that he's desperate enough to make the hot shot that kills Sherrod


I think Herc does more damage to good people than Marlo, Avon, anyone but the Greek maybe. He's the most despicable character in the series for my money.

Rawls is a slimy bureaucratic fuck with no concern for justice or the citizens of Baltimore who plays dirty politics rather than doing real po-lice work too as far as I'm concerned.

They're all good characters, i.e. well-developed and compelling, but those two I don't think are remotely good people and are to blame for much of the day-to-day tragedy the show chronicles.
Alright, you made some good points about Herc, but the difference I feel is that the shit with Randy was completely unintentional, he just dropped the ball hard because he's a moron. It wasn't that he didn't care, he was just too stupid to realize how important it was that he protect him. The shit with Bubbles, however, was a completely dick thing, but at the time, his ass was on the line at the time. Again, he didn't want harm to come to Bubbles, but as this series has shown, people act against their better judgment and do a lot of stupid shit when their career/life is on the line and Herc is no exception. Not making excuses, but I feel other characters still did much worse and for more selfish reasons.

As for Rawls, again, not a squeaky clean guy by any means, but as far as the police superiors go (atleast before Daniels made Major), he was the most legit of the bunch. Sure, he was a careerist, but so were most of the cops who weren't out on the street. However, compared to Burrell and Valchek, Rawls actually DID care about what as happening on his streets and kept up to date on most things. He was the one who was quickest to want to shut down Hamsterdam because he knew it was fucked up and wrong. He also never juked the stats. I point the finger at Burrell for having the most negative impact. Every single thing he ever did was to further his own agenda...

As I said earlier in the thread, most of the characters on the show aren't all that likable for numerous reasons, but we come to like them once we learn more about their morals and where their priorities lie. But if you wanna talk about REAL pieces of shit with no redeeming qualities, how about Colicchio, Mayor Royce, or Clay Davis?

Last edited by Smiert Spionam; 08-16-2010 at 08:23 PM..
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  #114  
Old 08-16-2010, 09:01 PM
Mayor Royce wanted to keep Hamsterdam up after he learned that it may have caused crime to go down. That was brief, however, as his advisers warned him that it would be career suicide.

Herc showed some human qualities when he apologized to Bodie's grandmother after storming through her home in a brutish manner. Carver, ironically, didn't care and just walks out cussing right in front of her.

I'm just saying.
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  #115  
Old 08-16-2010, 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
Mayor Royce wanted to keep Hamsterdam up after he learned that it may have caused crime to go down. That was brief, however, as his advisers warned him that it would be career suicide.

Herc showed some human qualities when he apologized to Bodie's grandmother after storming through her home in a brutish manner. Carver, ironically, didn't care and just walks out cussing right in front of her.

I'm just saying.
Indeed. None of the main characters are saints, which is another reason why The Wire is probably the most realistic show that's ever been on TV.
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  #116  
Old 08-16-2010, 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
I found myself appreciating Landsman by the end of the show. Yeah I hated him during the first season, as a character, the actual performance is great and the actor is quite funny as Landsman.
I thought the speech he gave at the policeman's wake (at the bar) in Season 3 was awesomely delivered and epic.

Wouldn't have had the same kind of weight (pun intended) coming from another character.
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  #117  
Old 08-16-2010, 11:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne101 View Post
Just finished Season 4 tonight. This was my reaction to the finale (specifically "the scene" that happens about 3/4 of the way through)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s
Spoiler:
Are you referring to Bodie's death? I'm a little tipsy so I can't remember if that's actually in the finale. If you are, I'm right there with yo. I had to stop the episode and take a little time-out after that. No joke.
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  #118  
Old 08-17-2010, 12:55 AM
I never saw one speck of evidence that Rawls cared about anything or anybody in this world.

Burrell struck me (and this is probably me giving the benefit of the doubt to the character because I love Frankie Faison so much) like a guy who had started with the right motives but had lost his way somewhere along the line. Royce (who was pretty clearly modeled on Marion Berry) was the same.

Again, the message is that you can't really beat the system. In order to get anywhere to do some serious reforming, you have to give up most everything that made you want to do that in the first place.
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  #119  
Old 08-17-2010, 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Turgidson View Post
I never saw one speck of evidence that Rawls cared about anything or anybody in this world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gtaf9Hp04yY
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  #120  
Old 08-17-2010, 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xseanymacx View Post
Spoiler:
Are you referring to Bodie's death? I'm a little tipsy so I can't remember if that's actually in the finale. If you are, I'm right there with yo. I had to stop the episode and take a little time-out after that. No joke.
Yep. That's what I'm referring to.
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