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  #1  
Old 06-21-2010, 11:28 PM
The use of the N-word in edited-for-TV broadcasts...

Okay, so I know editing for TV, for the most part, as most censorship, is just dumb unto itself. So let's just set that response aside and not harp on it.

Now, something else that's just dumb unto itself: I was watching Bad Boys 2 on TNT this past weekend, and while enjoying the sheer ridiculousness of the movie (gotta love a club owner who supplies his patrons with X and then soaks the dance floor with water) I was also laughing at the ridiculousness of the dialogue editing. It actually seemed to fit the movie better than the actual script did, since hearing people say things like mammajamma in the heat of a moment somehow made the movie seem more natural. If I was solarized and over-contrasted, I too would probably angrily refer to someone as such.

Then something somehow bothered me.

I "get" why things are censored. Don't really appreciate censorship, but sure, if a kid is flipping through the channels (though I don't get why something should be censored at 1 in the AM, but anyway...) and hears some f-bombs or what-not, I guess a parent wants to not have to worry about correcting that, because apparently the TV carries more weight than parenting skills in this day and age.

Then why, for the love of Ted Turner, did an entire scene contain as much "nigger" this and "nigger" that as was originally put into the script. I mean, it just seemed... offensive, but not for the reason they censor to avoid offense, but I mean, why was this okay? And they weren't using the word in the fashionable "bro" usage, they really meant it as a pejorative.

Please spare me any grandstanding about who says what and gets away with saying what, because there's nothing to lead me otherwise to believe that "ass hole" should be censored but not a derogatory term used against blacks. It makes no sense what-so-ever, and as a parent (who's kid was long ago in bed - well, the one that would matter, not the one who screams and eats from my wife's tits) I would much rather my kid "pick up" a term like "ass hole" or even "fucker" much more than the N-bomb. Not that this matters to me, but it does matter to TNT, and that's why they censored to begin with. They censor "god" when used with "damn" for fuck's sake, as if they need to protect the sanctity of religious Michael Bay fans.

The bad part is that complaints as such, to the station or a cable provider would only result in what? More censorship. So on one hand censorship is really stupid, but on the other hand, it's not just stupid but downright offensive when it sounds racially biased.

What do you say, Ted Turner?



"I say @#ck them &@ddamned niggers!"


You get the point.

Last edited by The Postmaster General; 06-21-2010 at 11:30 PM..
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  #2  
Old 06-21-2010, 11:40 PM
This may seem strange, but nigger isn't considered to be a swear word in the TV censorship sense and thus you will often see the word used in even basic cable TV shows that families watch. I was once watching the Bernie Mac sitcom and they used the word 3 times or more in one episode. But if they used the shit or fuck, it would be bleeped or edited. It's the way it is.

Last edited by River Dog; 06-21-2010 at 11:43 PM..
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  #3  
Old 06-21-2010, 11:49 PM
I'm in no way trying to antagonize or poke at you but... what are you trying to say? That's the problem with these guidelines, people tend to cherry pick and pick out things that muddles up the entire point to begin with.

People hate censorship, but they get angry at use of words like Fuck and The N Word.

It's like those people who want to be treated the same, but want special exceptions. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Censorship is a double edged sword. On the one hand we think we're protecting our kids, but on the other hand we're ruining it for everyone else and just adding to the notion that we need to be protected by the thought police because we can't do it themselves.

I want no censorship on television. Why not let us decide what we want to hear and see?

While I can definitely understand your anger at the profuseness of the N word, I'm not too sure what you're trying to say. Do you approve of censorship or just wanted it implemented in certain circumstances? And when do we draw the line on what's bad to say? And aren't there contexts to the words?

It's a big can of worms that can go on and on and on.
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  #4  
Old 06-22-2010, 12:10 AM
The Bad Boys II TV version is hilarious just because of the sheer amount of dubbed dialogue. My favorite line:

"That made my soul pucker." Hint: "Soul" was not the original word.
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  #5  
Old 06-22-2010, 01:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by River Dog View Post
This may seem strange, but nigger isn't considered to be a swear word in the TV censorship sense and thus you will often see the word used in even basic cable TV shows that families watch. I was once watching the Bernie Mac sitcom and they used the word 3 times or more in one episode. But if they used the shit or fuck, it would be bleeped or edited. It's the way it is.
That's is whacked, because like Terminal articulates, it's like cherry picking, I guess my problem is that it feels biased. I'll expand a bit more with my response to Terminal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminal_83 View Post
I'm in no way trying to antagonize or poke at you but... what are you trying to say? That's the problem with these guidelines, people tend to cherry pick and pick out things that muddles up the entire point to begin with.

People hate censorship, but they get angry at use of words like Fuck and The N Word.

It's like those people who want to be treated the same, but want special exceptions. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Censorship is a double edged sword. On the one hand we think we're protecting our kids, but on the other hand we're ruining it for everyone else and just adding to the notion that we need to be protected by the thought police because we can't do it themselves.

I want no censorship on television. Why not let us decide what we want to hear and see?

While I can definitely understand your anger at the profuseness of the N word, I'm not too sure what you're trying to say. Do you approve of censorship or just wanted it implemented in certain circumstances? And when do we draw the line on what's bad to say? And aren't there contexts to the words?

It's a big can of worms that can go on and on and on.
No, I wouldn't think you were picking here. I understand why it's confusing or seems hypocritical, and actually let it stew in my head for a couple days before bringing it to the boards.

First off, I have no problem with the N-word, as it's used in that movie, or even as a more clear-cut pejorative, like in Goodfellas. I actually talked to my kid about the word, because he heard some Jay-Z, and I just explained it to him as, well, I'll just say I think everyone would be approving of my explanation because I think we are all on the same page for the most part. Back on topic though, I have no problem with the N-word onto itself. If someone uses the word to spew racist garbage or to defame a race, my problem isn't the word but the intent.

I don't favor or lean toward censorship. I actually seek out, to a degree, material for my kid to be exposed to as a learning tool to discuss these things. At the same time, I don't intrinsically have a problem with censorship and it really doesn't stew my blood like it does a lot of people. This doesn't include when works are banned or censored to a degree of being erased from existence.

The root of why I took issue with this case, is that in a way, it feels like the network, or as River Dog points out - networks, are saying it's okay to use this particular word. What weirds me out is that it's a sort of, like you say, a thought police-type thing, but it's strange because, like you mention, a lot more people have a problem with the N-bomb, as much as the F-bomb, than they do with something like goddamn, shit, or nearly every single other thing TNT edited out of that broadcast.

It's just a strange feeling I get, like the censors are comfortable with this word, but uncomfortable with taking "god's" name in vain. As my wife mentioned, why is it not okay to insult the concept of a fictional entity (other's have a different take, I know) but it's okay to insult a race.

So, for me, it just reeks of a creepy bias within the media, and one that seems in favor of white christian morality. I mean, it's like some weird puritanical thing like "down with breasts, and up with slavery!" [/slight hyperbole]

I mean, censorship is bad enough on it's own, but I don't get why, if someone is going to censor, why would they overlook something like that. If what River Dog is saying is true, and I have no reason to believe otherwise, although I do vaguely now remember the episode he's talking about, and I remember the context being way different, as in Bad Boys 2 it was being said in an angry and demeaning manner (albeit for humorous effect)

Do you follow what I'm on about any more than before? It isn't that the N-word angered me, but more of the idea that the network is saying these words, that are less potentially offensive aren't okay, but something that is widely considered more offensive (but mainly, not solely though) to one particular population.

For instance, it would be like me teaching my kid to not say "shit" at school, but ignoring his use of the N-bomb. I mean, the kid would surely come off like a racist because of the meanings of these words, so in turn it feels like this type of censorship is racist.

In all, I think my issue with this lies less in the appearance of the word, and more to do with the back assward 1950s-ish mentality of the censors. If they want to air censored versions of movies, whatever, I think it's silly, doesn't really anger me or bother me even (sometimes it's funny) but it's really just more of the notion that they are indirectly approving one thing and not another. It's like a bunch of Klansmen sitting around trying to dictate the moralities expressed on TV. [/further slight hyperbole]

Basically, I'm starting to just repeat here, it's a cultural biased being inflicted in our homes. As for why something would be censored at 1 in the morning, the whole censorship thing all together, and much else that surrounds this all, that's for other rants that people have made much better than I can.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Badbird View Post
The Bad Boys II TV version is hilarious just because of the sheer amount of dubbed dialogue. My favorite line:

"That made my soul pucker." Hint: "Soul" was not the original word.

Yeah, it's funny too because I saw it years back, I think it was even on VHS, and I don't remember it even having that much swearing. It has a lot, but the dubbed dialogue is just funny because it almost draws more attention to the swearing because a) it's distracting, but hilarious and b) you often end up trying to figure out what they actually said. It's like the equivalent of a woman screaming "Oh no! My bikini just fell off! Don't look!"

Last edited by The Postmaster General; 06-22-2010 at 01:30 AM..
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  #6  
Old 06-22-2010, 02:36 AM
Wait......I'm confused. Did they censor the word or didn't they?
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  #7  
Old 06-22-2010, 09:56 AM
I don't think it's just about the N word as I have heard many different racist or derogatory words used on every day basic cable shows. These are apparently not on the list of words that get the censor's all heated. So as I mentioned before, racist comments are not required to be censored, but mother fucker (for example) is.
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  #8  
Old 06-22-2010, 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badbird View Post
The Bad Boys II TV version is hilarious just because of the sheer amount of dubbed dialogue. My favorite line:

"That made my soul pucker." Hint: "Soul" was not the original word.
My favorite line of all time came from watching the Farrelly brothers classic "Kingpin" on TBS one morning. The scene where Munson has his car fixed because Big Ern fixed it up, and the mechanic originally says "someone put sugar in your tank." and Munson says "Sugar?!".

Sugar was changed to "something". So it became "someone put something in your tank."....."SOMETHING?!"

No idea why they had to change that but ever since that day, thanks to the sheer ridiculousness of it, I've let tv censorship slide because its, well, ridiculous.
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  #9  
Old 06-22-2010, 11:55 AM
I agree with your post. It seems hypocritical of censors to ultimately dictate what is offensive and what isn't. And even in the context of two black men throwing it around to one another, it can still be deemed offensive language because of the lack of guidelines for that certain word.

Now, you explained it better than I ever could, so I just want to agree with your statement, but also pose a question...

Is it all channels in the US/Canada that censor films? Even movie channels? I know HBO don't censor because they're subscription service or something. Because being from the UK, I don't notice much censorship, the best example I can come up with is Scrubs being edited to not include some of the more vulgar comedy scenes or whatever. I've never seen words being replaced with kid friendly dialogue
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  #10  
Old 06-22-2010, 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiert Spionam View Post
Wait......I'm confused. Did they censor the word or didn't they?
No, they left it in. And it isn't that the word is there, but like KillBill it seems hypocritical, and I point that it's somewhat racially biased, as in no white guys are going to, in general be offended by it (very generally speaking) --- It sort of added for me that they censor "goddamn" but not the N-bomb.

I think what bothers me about it is that I know that the censorship boards and these cable networks, the FCC is mostly run by white people, and like River Dog points out, they are all bothered and offended by something like "motherfucker" but a word like this, they are totally cool with. It sort of makes me feel like they are comfortable with using the word themselves, or at the least, think nothing of it being used.

There's a few things about it that irk me, and it's nothing I really want to rally against as much as just point out, because probably more than anything it's just a big "WTFUCK?"

To me, it's just one of those things that deserves being pointed out - sort of like a in a business suit coming out of the bathroom with TP stuck to the sole of his shoe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillBill View Post
I agree with your post. It seems hypocritical of censors to ultimately dictate what is offensive and what isn't. And even in the context of two black men throwing it around to one another, it can still be deemed offensive language because of the lack of guidelines for that certain word.

Now, you explained it better than I ever could, so I just want to agree with your statement, but also pose a question...

Is it all channels in the US/Canada that censor films? Even movie channels? I know HBO don't censor because they're subscription service or something. Because being from the UK, I don't notice much censorship, the best example I can come up with is Scrubs being edited to not include some of the more vulgar comedy scenes or whatever. I've never seen words being replaced with kid friendly dialogue

Yeah, and it's just funny because generally speaking most words they censor are considered less offensive than that particular word. It just seems really ignorant, especially so for such a large cable network. I would think it would be like trying to explain to Ted Turner himself why he shouldn't refer to Tyler Perry as "My nigga."

About what gets aired and what doesn't, it's totally inconsistent. For instance, Comedy Central (at one time recently, not sure if they still do it) would play movies totally uncensored if it was like 2 in the morning. Everything was left in, except I don't think they showed like graphic nudity or anything, but just because the shows they'd play didn't contain that. An example is them airing The South Park Movie.

But with my cable service, you get Comedy Central and TNT as part of a package, so there's no logic there why one station can do it and another can't, although I'm sure it has to do with sponsorship and such things. For instance, I don't think the American Association for Retired People want to advertise on Comedy Central during South Park, but they might pull spots on TNT.

What they refer to as "premium channels" though, that's your HBOs and Showtimes - they just play things as is all times all the time, but they don't air R-rated content before 8pm or after like 5 or 6am.

That's North America. I think in Canada they roll differently and every parent leaving the hospital, instead of a bill, they get a box of porn or something. They are much more lax with censorship.
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  #11  
Old 06-22-2010, 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaStrangelove View Post
That's North America. I think in Canada they roll differently and every parent leaving the hospital, instead of a bill, they get a box of porn or something. They are much more lax with censorship.
Yeah. It's like this everywhere else in the world, actually. Especially in France.
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  #12  
Old 06-22-2010, 05:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monotreme View Post
Yeah. It's like this everywhere else in the world, actually.
That can't be true. You just mean, for the most part, like Western countries, Australia and so-forth, right? I have a hard time believing somewhere like China or Iran would air something like Bad Boys 2 uncensored. That is to say, i would believe it, but just be majority surprised. I'm actually surprised that Israel is so lax, but at the same time, am very comfortable with knowing that the US is pretty heavy on Puritan values and for the most part pretty prudish - well, you have both extremes, but the above mentioned extreme seems to be the ones dictating what values we will follow.
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  #13  
Old 06-22-2010, 06:54 PM
One day I was watching Major League on either comedy central, TNT, or whatever. All the swears were hilariously changed. It eventually got to a part where Cerano was having words with that pitcher he hated. So here comes him telling the guy to go fuck himself (but in Spanish) and I expect some hilarious cut of his dialogue. Completely uncensored.

How does this relate to the topic? It shows that they just don't fucking care. So that's why the n-word showed up and that's why they didn't censor Spanish swears.
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  #14  
Old 06-22-2010, 08:03 PM
Thanks for the detailed information Bubba. Always struggled getting to grips with it.

As for the N-bomb debacle, have other instances of the N-word been censored in other broadcasts? Because if they have then there's probably some holes in what goes on and doesn't. Or maybe there can be exceptions...? In the sense that if it were to be deemed appropriate to use such a word within its context? Like I said with Bad Boys 2 it's targetted at an African American audience, y'know, two VERY big stars of that ethnicity starring alongside oneanother.... and the FCC saw that and said "Hey, if the main audience is saying is so casually like these two, then maybe we can let it slide." Or something to that affect.

I don't know how that makes the FCC come off because when it boils down to it, it's still an offensive word no matter how much Will Smith and Martin Lawrence re-appropriate it to endear each other.

Edit: And also, looking through the other replies, I notice another instance of the N-word being used in Bernie Mac's show, so again, it seems only appropriate to use it within and african american community. Maybe the FCC think that white people just don't watch those shows...

Last edited by KillBill; 06-22-2010 at 08:07 PM..
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  #15  
Old 06-22-2010, 11:58 PM
No, because for that to be the case, they'd actually have to care. I think Gilpesh called it - I might be just saying that because it compliments my theory that it just doesn't affect the censors.

I'm wishing I could remember that Bernie Mac episode, because what I'm remembering, Bernie Mac was sort of using it in an academic sort of way, as in he was actually talking about the word itself, and not using it casually.

But no, I can't think of other instances where I've heard it, though I can't believe that I hadn't heard it like back in the 80s or something. Part of what surprised me about it was that, well, it's 2010. I swear though, that Bernie Mac episode, it was like a discussion about the word itself and not just being used casually. I really wish I could recall the episode, and I really wish that a Google search for "Bernie Mac <that word>" didn't yield results stemming from actual racist comments about Bernie Mac. That's like trying to find out where your wife is spending all your shared money and finding out she's banging the whole town. I mean, so I'd imagine.
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  #16  
Old 06-23-2010, 05:40 AM
Quite honestly I don't think I have ever heard the N word or any other racist comment bleeped in my entire lifetime of watching television. From movies to talk shows to educational programming to sitcoms to drama's - it would get through long before any swear word would.
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  #17  
Old 06-23-2010, 10:29 AM
They censored it out of Goodfellas and Pulp Fiction.

Someone may have already called the difference as being "--ga" and "--ger", as in the context of the usage.
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  #18  
Old 06-23-2010, 10:41 AM
Never watch most movies because of this. Censorship of changing the words like fuck and shit is funny and sad.
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  #19  
Old 06-23-2010, 10:57 AM
Some of the stuff they come up with is where it's funny, but the fact that it's censored is what's not so funny.

For the record, is the phonetic pronunciation of your name, "John <sound of squeaky toy> <cash register opening> <cash register opening>"? That's how I hear it in my head.
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  #20  
Old 06-23-2010, 11:19 AM
No. It just spelled different like ass but with @$$ instead of ass. Don't like censored at all.
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  #21  
Old 06-23-2010, 11:47 AM
Don't worry, that's just inside my head. When ever I slam a car door, I don't hear a car door slamming, but instead hear a bag of marbles being dropped in an iron skillet. 38 out of 41 doctors have deemed me a mystery of neuroscience, while 2 promptly dropped out of the field with one going into veterinary work and the other a monk; that 41st guy, though, was last seen on the news running naked through an open air mall.
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  #22  
Old 07-03-2010, 07:08 PM
It's a weird double standard. It's as if TNT used the same excuse black folks (yes I'm black) use. "It's O.K. if it's us". As much as people want to try to deflate the word by over using it that never works. It just mutates into "well it's the tone" or "it's O.K. if it ends in an a". You're only making excuses to still use the word. I wonder why my people want to cling on to it or "own" it. If some one called you a c*ntrag would you say to yourself 'okay I'm gonna own that and turn it around so people can't hurt me with it anymore'? Personally I don't like it when other brothers use it on me and I react the same way I would if it was coming from anyone else who wasn't black.

Anyway, it's an old retarded word that can never be erased from our lexicon and the double standard will live on forever. Sadly.
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  #23  
Old 07-06-2010, 01:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seansea View Post
It's a weird double standard. It's as if TNT used the same excuse black folks (yes I'm black) use. "It's O.K. if it's us". As much as people want to try to deflate the word by over using it that never works. It just mutates into "well it's the tone" or "it's O.K. if it ends in an a". You're only making excuses to still use the word. I wonder why my people want to cling on to it or "own" it. If some one called you a c*ntrag would you say to yourself 'okay I'm gonna own that and turn it around so people can't hurt me with it anymore'? Personally I don't like it when other brothers use it on me and I react the same way I would if it was coming from anyone else who wasn't black.

Anyway, it's an old retarded word that can never be erased from our lexicon and the double standard will live on forever. Sadly.

Good post, and welcome to... welcome back to the boards?

I always find the use of the word for comradery similar to how I may call a good friend an "asshole" or make a momma joke. It's something done through familiarity, which is where the "that's okay" factor comes in. The use in that movie wouldn't have mattered to me as much if they did allow "asshole" used in a friendly manner, which it was thoughout the movie, or some similar example.
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  #24  
Old 07-06-2010, 03:02 PM
Ok, I'm gonna chime in here with the best possible grasp on everything that's been said here.

I find censorship as a whole to be a waste of time and completely and utterly pointless. As Bubba said it before, parenting these days is based more on television and what's shown on it than being an actual parent and doing your job as a parent and taking responsibilites. Censorship just proves that our culture and our people can't handle things that happen in daily life and just gives people a reason to bitch when something is shown or heard that is "off-color" (for lack of a better term). I have no problem with the use of the n-word. I don't use it myself (unless in a discussion discussing the word), but I don't get offended by it. In fact, sometimes in context, it can be funny (I'll probably get flamed by that comment, but oh well).

Take Blazing Saddles, for example. It's a classic and was a film that was nearly BANNED. Why? Because "nigger" is spoken so much? Nope. Because of one scene in particular. The flatulence scene. A scene that that used to be more offensive than a pejorative term describing (more or less) a race of people. It's also reportedly the first time flatulence was ever put into a movie. This scene used to be censored on TV whenever broadcast. I noticed just recently (like, within the past COUPLE years), it was put back in. Now, as far as censoring goes in that movie, I haven't a clue where the line is drawn. I've seen daytime broadcasts where "nigger" is spoken SOMETIMES and bleeped others. I've watched it where "shit" is spoken, but not "nigger." I've seen it where all of the "cuss words" (I hate that term) are bleeped, but "nigger" is still spoken. All of this jumble on three different networks, AMC, Comedy Central, and TBS, some of which these multiple occurances happen on the same network over a period of time. Unless I'm mistaken (I'll admit, I didn't do research, so I'm sure someone else can clarify), isn't AMC a subsidiary of TNT?

To even further to spectrum of "nigger" being spoken on TV, Chappelle's Show was notorious for the use of the word. When it was broadcast in regual season, the only things bleeped were the "curse words." Everything else was fair game. Hell, even "dick" and "pussy" were spoken...and yes, in the context used to describe said organs. A few months ago, I saw they were showing reruns of the show, and guess what? EVERYTHING was edited. Why? You've already crossed the line using the term in the first place, why change it up? I believe one episode in particular, using a play on words showcasing the "Niggar" family, has that skit cut from future broadcasts. Why?

As most everyone has said, sometimes the censoring can be a little silly, especially when it comes to trying to find out what people are really saying. One of the first instances I remember was watching The Crow, and the lead detective says to Sir. Ernie Hudson: "bull flippin' spit." Sorry, I can't help but find humor in that. I just think there should be a line for all networks as to what is acceptable and what is not, because clearly, nobody knows.

Oh, and the FCC fucking sucks. I say we have an uprising.
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  #25  
Old 07-21-2010, 12:58 AM
I recall watching House Party on broadcast TV and the N-word was uncensored. I couldn't believe it. Same with Comedy Central's broadcast of Chris Rock's "Kill The Messenger."

This is highly unacceptable. It's enabling more people to use the word as if it's harmless.
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  #26  
Old 07-21-2010, 01:56 AM
So that's funny. It really does seem to come down to who is using it, because with Goodfellas, they do edit the word out comically, and in Pulp Fiction, they edit out the scene where Jimmy explains why he doesn't want Marvin in the garage.
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  #27  
Old 07-21-2010, 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaStrangelove View Post
and in Pulp Fiction, they edit out the scene where Jimmy explains why he doesn't want Marvin in the garage.
this one ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNoqexybDiA

Edited for TV movies are the stuff. Where else could you find some precious gems like : Die Hard 2: "Yippy ka yay Mister Falcon" or Snakes on a planes: "I want these monkey fighting snakes off my plane"
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  #28  
Old 07-21-2010, 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtyfrog View Post
this one ?

Yes, that's the one. Thanks! ...well, except obviously they didn't overdub it, then edit the scene out.

The version I was specifically speaking of, it cuts from them picking up the briefcase to them in the diner talking about almost getting killed, without explanation on how they got their beach bum outfits. It also cuts the entire Zed scene. This may have been on CW (or WB or UPN), though, which I think is the only non-cable station to have shown Pulp Fiction. I think Bravo's version so far has been the closest to leaving everything in.

So is everyone thinking it's depending on who uses the word? So far we have 2 examples of whites using it and it being edited out, and multiple ones of African-Americans using it and it being left in.


EDIT: Ha. I tried looking for the "cut scenes" version a few minutes before realizing, "What would be the point of watching examples of scenes cut from movies on YouTube? It's not funny like overdubbed dialogue!"

EDIT 2: Oh, did find this though - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1qqYVhKwhI

Last edited by The Postmaster General; 07-21-2010 at 12:28 PM..
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