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  #1  
Old 03-03-2011, 10:36 PM
Fuck George Lucas! No 3D Star Wars!!

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A long time ago, in uh, this galaxy, we announced that George Lucas had devised yet another way to earn millions off of his existing franchise by converting all six STAR WARS movies to 3D and re-releasing them in theaters.

Now we have an official date for when this exercise begins. THE PHANTOM MENACE 3D will be released February 10, 2012. If the technology had existed at the time, Lucas obviously would have made the new trilogy 3D for the extra cash, but he’s got so much leverage with this series, he can just have a do-over and re-release them all again.
No! No! No,no no no no no no no NO! I need Heath Ledger to rise from the dead and do his Joker and fuck up Lucas like he did the mob.

Fuck George Lucas! I officially hate you. I grew up watching Star Wars. I went to all the original screenings of all 6 Star Wars. I watched Star Wars episode 4 litterally 200 times growing up, because back in the 80's when Star Wars was first on HBO, it was on like everyday, three times a day and I watched it each time. I watched the very first digital screening of Episode 1 when it was in only 3 theaters in the whole world (Winnetka, CA) and fuck did it look bright and clear! I was at the Chinese Theater in Hollywood for a Friday night 8 pm showing of Episode 4 when it was redone with all the special effects and new shit. I owned it when it was on a record and 8 track (I shit you not). I bought it when it was on VHS and DVD. I enjoyed the prequels. I am a Star Wars man.

I WILL NOT BE GOING TO SEE THEM IN 3D AND NEITHER SHOULD YOU! I am totally 100% for someone making money and capitalism, but this is totally out of hand. George Lucas has enough money and there is no need to fleece people anymore. I want these 3D showings to fail. Go pay for another 3D movie showing and go into the Star Wars theater if you have to, but please for the love of movies, do not give this man one more cent of your money.

It is even a joke he is going to start with episode 1, which is considered the worst of the 6. George you fucking hack, James Cameron is the king and you are second class. Go spent some of the money you made on the last triology and make a new triology. Give us something new mother fucker!

Last edited by Erroneous; 03-03-2011 at 11:13 PM..
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  #2  
Old 03-03-2011, 10:46 PM


Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope.
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  #3  
Old 03-03-2011, 10:54 PM
This is the best news I've heard in a while. Converting Star Wars to 3D makes perfect sense. I'm sure Lucas will put the best team behind it, and they will look great. I'll definitely check them out when they're released. Thanks for reminding me. I completely forgot about this.
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  #4  
Old 03-03-2011, 10:55 PM
Have fun with that Lucas, I'll be spending money on newer films that day.
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  #5  
Old 03-03-2011, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by CosmicPuppet View Post
This is the best news I've heard in a while. Converting Star Wars to 3D makes perfect sense. I'm sure Lucas will put the best team behind it, and they will look great. I'll definitely check them out when they're released. Thanks for reminding me. I completely forgot about this.
I rather he put the best team behind a new star wars movie. He will probably use the pure profits he makes off the 3D releases to finance the new series just like last time. Fucker!
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  #6  
Old 03-03-2011, 11:09 PM

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  #7  
Old 03-03-2011, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
I rather he put the best team behind a new star wars movie. He will probably use the pure profits he makes off the 3D releases to finance the new series just like last time. Fucker!
That's one thing you have to give Lucas. The man knows strategy. He is the world's best autistic director/producer. Give him an actor and he won't know what the hell to do with them, but give him some technology and the man can do wonders.
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  #8  
Old 03-04-2011, 10:17 AM
He doesn't know what he wants. If you watch various interviews over the years, it's totally clear he's flying by the seat of his pants 99% of the time. At one point he "always envisioned" 3 trilogies.

He should be directing animation, and that's it. Once the Clone Wars have run their course (maaaybe one more season of the show), hopefully he'll see what legions of fans have been saying for years.
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  #9  
Old 03-04-2011, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
It is even a joke he is going to start with episode 1, which is considered the worst of the 6.


That's the funniest thing about all this. Whenever Lucas goes to the "Star Wars" well to milk the franchise some more with new rereleases, he will ALWAYS have to start with the crappiest, most universally hated movie in the series, "Episode 1".
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  #10  
Old 03-05-2011, 09:08 AM
Seriously... You're NOT being forced to go see the re-releases (again, I know) - I'm gonna go, millions of others will go. Hell - people that are bitching about the re-releases will go... But you don't have to. This is the same whining and moaning that happened with the first (and second ) DvD releases of the OT... It's also the same whining and moaning that happens when a new Star Wars product is released. I'm shocked that this doesn't happen with the Clone Wars TV series.

Oh, and George Lucas "milking" the franchise? IF you came up with something that was THAT successful (so successful that it's been around for 33 years) and you made hundreds of millions of dollars off of it... tell me you wouldn't do the same. Here's the thing - People are still paying for all of the Star Wars stuff that comes out, there's still a demand for new product, and until there's NO profit there will continue to be Star Wars re-releases, toys, cartoons, everything else, etc. So yeah... George Lucas deserves the right to "milk" Star Wars. It's his. He created it. You didn't. So stop acting like George Lucas walked into your home, had sex with your mother, stole your wallet and then kicked your dog in the balls. You choose to pay, it's not ol' George's fault.

This is just my opinion.

Last edited by bourahioro; 03-05-2011 at 09:14 AM..
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  #11  
Old 03-05-2011, 09:14 AM
There's no question: George Lucas? Giant douchebag.

However. If I were him, would I do the same fuckin' thing? Hells yes I would.

If people keep coming back for more, dropping their pennies to see what else has been done, why stop capitalizing on it? You'd have to be a complete idiot to stop.

But he's absolutely a douchebag. A very, very rich douchebag.
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  #12  
Old 03-06-2011, 12:06 PM
The last time he re-released the original trilogy, he used the profits to make the prequel trilogy. I just wonder if he's planning on making more Star Wars movies with the profits of these 3D releases.

Right now, I don't think I want to see these 3D releases. I've already ordered the blu-rays of all six movies and just don't buy into the 3D hype all that much. Still, I do love going to the theater to watch movies and I do love Star Wars. I might change my mind between now and then. We'll see.
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  #13  
Old 03-06-2011, 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bourahioro View Post
Seriously... You're NOT being forced to go see the re-releases (again, I know) - I'm gonna go, millions of others will go. Hell - people that are bitching about the re-releases will go... But you don't have to. This is the same whining and moaning that happened with the first (and second ) DvD releases of the OT... It's also the same whining and moaning that happens when a new Star Wars product is released. I'm shocked that this doesn't happen with the Clone Wars TV series.

Oh, and George Lucas "milking" the franchise? IF you came up with something that was THAT successful (so successful that it's been around for 33 years) and you made hundreds of millions of dollars off of it... tell me you wouldn't do the same. Here's the thing - People are still paying for all of the Star Wars stuff that comes out, there's still a demand for new product, and until there's NO profit there will continue to be Star Wars re-releases, toys, cartoons, everything else, etc. So yeah... George Lucas deserves the right to "milk" Star Wars. It's his. He created it. You didn't. So stop acting like George Lucas walked into your home, had sex with your mother, stole your wallet and then kicked your dog in the balls. You choose to pay, it's not ol' George's fault.

This is just my opinion.
And an accurate one. Skip it if you want, people. But it is Lucas's franchise. He can do with it as he likes.
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  #14  
Old 03-06-2011, 10:25 PM
I wonder if people will ever realize that if you really hate George Lucas and don't want to support the Star Wars 3D re-releases, instead of bitching and whining about it (as some fans have been doing since the Special Edition releases), all you really have to do is not see it. Lucas releasing it in 3D isn't going to affect the movies you already have in your possession.

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he will ALWAYS have to start with the crappiest, most universally hated movie in the series, "Episode 1".
So universally hated that people saw it again and again, making it one of the highest grossing movies of all time.
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  #15  
Old 03-07-2011, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Fred Krueger View Post
I wonder if people will ever realize that if you really hate George Lucas and don't want to support the Star Wars 3D re-releases, instead of bitching and whining about it (as some fans have been doing since the Special Edition releases), all you really have to do is not see it. Lucas releasing it in 3D isn't going to affect the movies you already have in your possession.



So universally hated that people saw it again and again, making it one of the highest grossing movies of all time.
People are stupid. TF2 made $400 mill too.
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  #16  
Old 03-07-2011, 03:46 PM
I guess that makes me stupid too, for having enjoyed Transformers 2 for what it was.

Turn your nose up all you want, but the prequels were popular with the general movie going audiences. Granted popularity doesn't equal quality, but I happen to think they're up to par with the original trilogy, and if anything, make the original films stronger than they were when first released.
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  #17  
Old 03-07-2011, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Fred Krueger View Post
I guess that makes me stupid too, for having enjoyed Transformers 2 for what it was.

Turn your nose up all you want, but the prequels were popular with the general movie going audiences. Granted popularity doesn't equal quality, but I happen to think they're up to par with the original trilogy, and if anything, make the original films stronger than they were when first released.
^^
Seconded... I love 'em all equally. I don't care if others like them or not... But if they don't nobody's forcing them to watch or buy the merch. Lucas isn't the stupid one.
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  #18  
Old 03-07-2011, 06:45 PM
The complainers do have a valid point if Lucas is still refusing to release the original trilogy. He can do rereleases all he wants but if he's specifically withholding the original versions of the films I believe that it is pretty slimy. I don't think the majority of the people are complaining just because new versions exist, it's that they can't get home video releases of the original film they fell in love with. This has been happening for a long time now, from the VHS to DVD and now BluRay, fans have been buying versions of the films they feel are inferior because Lucas is refusing to release the original versions. It's stupid for a consumer to buy something he doesn't want, but with the banishment of the unaltered original trilogy, Lucas is definitely dicking over the very fans that made him to begin with.
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  #19  
Old 03-07-2011, 07:16 PM
Thing is he did re-release the theatrical versions as a special feature on the last boxed set. And they still weren't happy because it wasn't anamorphic widescreen. George Lucas could burn all prints of the prequels and special editions and the fans would still hate him. They've already set it in their minds that he raped their childhood and they'll continue to blame him for all that is wrong in film (but they'll praise the special effects that ILM turns out, ironically).
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  #20  
Old 03-07-2011, 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Fred Krueger View Post
Thing is he did re-release the theatrical versions as a special feature on the last boxed set. And they still weren't happy because it wasn't anamorphic widescreen.
Well that's another valid complaint. Non-anamorphic DVDs were already out of date at that time and ruins the experience of watching it on a widescreen television.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Fred Krueger View Post
George Lucas could burn all prints of the prequels and special editions and the fans would still hate him. They've already set it in their minds that he raped their childhood and they'll continue to blame him for all that is wrong in film (but they'll praise the special effects that ILM turns out, ironically).
This is all hypothetical and you're making sweeping generalizations. You can't prove that any of that is true. Even if it is, I think it's only true to a vocal minority of fans. That doesn't change the fact that some fans have a valid complaint and bone to pick with the man. I understand that you want to defend Lucas, but at the expense of completely shitting on another group of people, seems hypocritical.
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  #21  
Old 03-07-2011, 07:51 PM
I'm not trying to shit on them, DaveyJoeG, and I'm sorry if it comes across as such. But my opinion is that many of them have decided to hate Lucas and his projects because of pettiness. They resort to calling him a greedy bastard (despite the fact that he spread the wealth on the earnings Empire made, and even paid Irvin Kershner's fines laid down by the DGA) all because he wants the films seen the way he intended them to be seen in the first place? Because he thinks it'd be fun to experiment with 3D?

If you don't like the guy or his films, fine. Don't watch them and don't support him. Hell, I love Star Wars and I don't see myself sitting in a theater to watch the films converted into 3D. I also haven't watched a single episode of the Clone Wars.

If a fan can pick and choose what he wants, surely someone who hates Lucas with a passion can pick and choose his battles and not be so upset over so much as a director's decision to not release a particular version of the art he created--especially when it leads to childish name calling and hate spewing. I can't get ahold of Tolkien's original Hobbit where Gollum freely gives Bilbo the ring of power, but it doesn't bother me a bit.
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  #22  
Old 03-07-2011, 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Fred Krueger View Post
I'm not trying to shit on them, DaveyJoeG, and I'm sorry if it comes across as such. But my opinion is that many of them have decided to hate Lucas and his projects because of pettiness. They resort to calling him a greedy bastard (despite the fact that he spread the wealth on the earnings Empire made, and even paid Irvin Kershner's fines laid down by the DGA) all because he wants the films seen the way he intended them to be seen in the first place? Because he thinks it'd be fun to experiment with 3D?
That's cool, I just don't think it's possible for either one of us to give an accurate percentage of fans who have a valid complaint versus the impossible-to-please nutjobs that are just spazzing out. I'd just like to say that I think there are valid complaints towards Lucas' practices and I don't want to see them lost in the shuffle.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Fred Krueger View Post
If you don't like the guy or his films, fine. Don't watch them and don't support him. Hell, I love Star Wars and I don't see myself sitting in a theater to watch the films converted into 3D. I also haven't watched a single episode of the Clone Wars.
The problem is that the people who are complaining DO like Lucas. They are fans of the original trilogy as they originally viewed them in 1977, 1980, and 1983. They just want decent releases of those films.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Fred Krueger View Post
If a fan can pick and choose what he wants, surely someone who hates Lucas with a passion can pick and choose his battles and not be so upset over so much as a director's decision to not release a particular version of the art he created--especially when it leads to childish name calling and hate spewing. I can't get ahold of Tolkien's original Hobbit where Gollum freely gives Bilbo the ring of power, but it doesn't bother me a bit.
This is where we get into the tricky area of ownership of art. Some would argue that art is for everybody to enjoy and that it can transcend the whims of just one man. Legally, Lucas can do what he wants. But he risks betraying the fans that turned the original Star Wars from a campy sci-fi flick into the first monumental blockbuster franchise.

It's clear that Lucas puts his own desires far ahead of what his fans want, and I'm not going to say that's wrong. Just try to empathize with the people who fell in love with Star Wars in 1977 and to this day they can't view it the same way at home.

I wasn't even alive in 1977, and I'm honestly not the biggest Star Wars fan out there, but I can definitely relate to what some fans are going through. I know for me, I would hate it if the same thing happened to say.. Nolan's Batman trilogy. What if 25 years from now, Nolan decided to revisit the trilogy after technology has taken leaps and bounds forward. He replaces Katie Holmes with a CGI Maggie Gylenhal for continuity. Then he puts a CGI Joker in the Dark Knight and TDKR. Would we all agree that we should shut up and enjoy Nolan's revisionist versions or would we be upset that we can't enjoy Ledger's performance as we first saw it?

The easy solution would be to release both versions and let the fans decide for themselves. But Lucas isn't giving his fans that choice.
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  #23  
Old 03-07-2011, 08:35 PM
George Lucas will eventually remake Star Wars. Itís inevitable.
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  #24  
Old 03-07-2011, 11:29 PM
Hey, these movies haven't pooped on my childhood of the originals. It's fucking 3D, so the price alone to see a film I can watch at home pretty much confirmed my complete disinterest in the film.
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  #25  
Old 03-08-2011, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
Nolan's Batman trilogy. What if 25 years from now, Nolan decided to revisit the trilogy after technology has taken leaps and bounds forward. He replaces Katie Holmes with a CGI Maggie Gylenhal for continuity. Then he puts a CGI Joker in the Dark Knight and TDKR. Would we all agree that we should shut up and enjoy Nolan's revisionist versions or would we be upset that we can't enjoy Ledger's performance as we first saw it?

The easy solution would be to release both versions and let the fans decide for themselves. But Lucas isn't giving his fans that choice.

I think that many fans that weren't around for the originals (or maybe even haven't seen them would seek out the old VHS tapes, or even the DVDs that had the untouched OT on them if they wanted to see them that bad... In regards to the Holmes/Ledger analogy: I feel safe in saying that almost everyone who could make this argument was around for the initial release and have either (or both) the DVD and Blu-Rays of Batman Begins, TDK and soon enough TDKR, so *IF* someday Nolan decided to do this, people would have the originals in pristine quality anyway... so really it wouldn't matter.

Lucas honeslty didn't fuck with the OT too much... Yeah he added Hayden's Anakin over the original Anakin in Jedi... but other than that, the only changes were in some scenery or characters that were redone in CGI to make the detail and continuity match with the new trilogy.
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  #26  
Old 03-08-2011, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by bourahioro View Post
I think that many fans that weren't around for the originals (or maybe even haven't seen them would seek out the old VHS tapes, or even the DVDs that had the untouched OT on them if they wanted to see them that bad... In regards to the Holmes/Ledger analogy: I feel safe in saying that almost everyone who could make this argument was around for the initial release and have either (or both) the DVD and Blu-Rays of Batman Begins, TDK and soon enough TDKR, so *IF* someday Nolan decided to do this, people would have the originals in pristine quality anyway... so really it wouldn't matter.

Lucas honeslty didn't fuck with the OT too much... Yeah he added Hayden's Anakin over the original Anakin in Jedi... but other than that, the only changes were in some scenery or characters that were redone in CGI to make the detail and continuity match with the new trilogy.
It would matter, because during my hypothetical situation, DVD and BluRay would be long outdated, and Nolan of course is only releasing his revised versions on the new Hologram format. I don't know about you, but I don't want to watch the Dark Knight on an old shitty VHS, so why I should have to do the same for the Star Wars OT? Why can't I get the shiny new BluRays in crystal clear hi-def and uncompressed surround sound? Fans can get Lucas's special editions, but not the original trilogy. In the future, I'll want to have access to The Dark Knight in the most recent form of technology available.

You may think Lucas didn't fuck with the OT much, others would disagree. He completely erased at least two actors(original Anakin and Jabba) from the trilogy, I think that's a pretty big deal, and that's why I used the Ledger scenario. In my opinion, he took a classic that stood the test of time with practical effects and dated the trilogy with 1998-era computer effects.

You essentially ignored my argument. If Nolan made drastic changes to his Batman trilogy, such as replacing Ledger with a CGI Joker, would you gladly accept that as your official version? Or would you want the choice to view the movie as you originally saw it?
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  #27  
Old 03-08-2011, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
You may think Lucas didn't fuck with the OT much, others would disagree. He completely erased at least two actors(original Anakin and Jabba) from the trilogy
No, he didn't. Sebastian Shaw still has his role as a dying Anakin in ROTJ, and Jabba was untouched in Jedi and added into A New Hope.
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  #28  
Old 03-08-2011, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Fred Krueger View Post
No, he didn't. Sebastian Shaw still has his role as a dying Anakin in ROTJ, and Jabba was untouched in Jedi and added into A New Hope.
Shaw still has his death scene, true, but you're forgetting about the original actor who played Jabba the Hut. This guy:

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  #29  
Old 03-08-2011, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
Shaw still has his death scene, true, but you're forgetting about the original actor who played Jabba the Hut. This guy:

The actor playing Jabba was always intended to be replaced by another creature (originally thought to be a furry creature like Chewbacca), even back in 1977. They neither had the technology--short of stop motion--nor the time to do it. The line, "Jabba, you're a wonderful human being" is meant to be sarcastic.

Last edited by Mr. Fred Krueger; 03-08-2011 at 02:50 PM..
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  #30  
Old 03-08-2011, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Fred Krueger View Post
The actor playing Jabba was always intended to be replaced by another creature (originally thought to be a furry creature like Chewbacca), even back in 1977. They neither had the technology--short of stop motion--nor the time to do it. The line, "Jabba, you're a wonderful human being" is meant to be sarcastic.
Nolan always intended The Joker to be in Batman 3, that doesn't mean the best decision would be to create a CGI Ledger, or to recast a different actor and use technology to insert him into The Dark Knight for continuity.

This isn't a scenario where a studio butchered a director's vision and a Director's Cut benefits the artist and the audience. This is about a man playing with his toys(CGI technology) and trying to fix something that aint broken. How do Irvin Kershner and Richard Marquand feel about the changes made to Empire Strikes Back and the Return of the Jedi? Many audience members aren't happy with them, and you being okay with the changes doesn't necessarily make them wrong.

I'm not saying copies of the prequels and Special Editions need to be burned. I just feel that fans should be able to see the films as they originally enjoyed them, and I don't think that's an unreasonable request.
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  #31  
Old 03-08-2011, 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
Nolan always intended The Joker to be in Batman 3, that doesn't mean the best decision would be to create a CGI Ledger, or to recast a different actor and use technology to insert him into The Dark Knight for continuity.
Completely irrelevant. There's a difference between recasting and replacing an actor that was always meant to be replaced. Would you really have preferred to have Jabba a human in A New Hope and a giant slug in Jedi? Would that have made sense? Again, the intent was always to have the actor removed and replaced with a strange creature, even before Lucas knew Jabba was a slug.

Quote:
This isn't a scenario where a studio butchered a director's vision and a Director's Cut benefits the artist and the audience. This is about a man playing with his toys(CGI technology) and trying to fix something that aint broken. How do Irvin Kershner and Richard Marquand feel about the changes made to Empire Strikes Back and the Return of the Jedi? Many audience members aren't happy with them, and you being okay with the changes doesn't necessarily make them wrong.
You think it's not broke. Lucas was never happy with the end result of the visual effects in Star Wars. As far as Kersh and Marquand, Kersh was for the changes. He had wanted to see more of the Wampa creature and wanted Cloud City to be more open than it ended up being. Other changes, ie adding McDiarmid as the Emperor, were done for continuity's sake.

Marquand is dead, so Lucas couldn't very well attain his "permission." Though the rumor mill is strong that Lucas was the true director of Jedi, and was directly responsible for everyone's favorite scenes in the movie--the throne room scenes.

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I'm not saying copies of the prequels and Special Editions need to be burned. I just feel that fans should be able to see the films as they originally enjoyed them, and I don't think that's an unreasonable request.
You're talking to someone who enjoyed the films prior to the Special Editions. I grew up loving the original trilogy as they were. But if I never see them again (unlikely since I do have the unaltered's on the DVDs Lucas was kind enough to deliver), I'll be more than content to watch my Special Editions.

After 14 years it is simply time for people to get over it.
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  #32  
Old 03-08-2011, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Fred Krueger View Post
Completely irrelevant. There's a difference between recasting and replacing an actor that was always meant to be replaced. Would you really have preferred to have Jabba a human in A New Hope and a giant slug in Jedi? Would that have made sense? Again, the intent was always to have the actor removed and replaced with a strange creature, even before Lucas knew Jabba was a slug.
Completely relevant. We're discussing the simple concept of directors going back and making changes to a released film because of obstacles during filmmaking. Lucas wanted Jabba to be a non-human(but apparently wasn't sure if he wanted a furry creature or a giant slug yet). Okay, so he casts a human, 6 years later makes a giant slug puppet to represent the same character, then 15 years later uses a CGI slug to replace the human actor. Nolan wanted to use The Joker but the actor that played him died, so his decision was to take the sequel in a different direction and write the character out. Which was more respectful to the actor who helped create the character?

Yes I am absolutely fine with continuity errors such as this. When Rachael Dawes was played by a different actor in The Dark Knight, I was not distracted. I'm more distracted by (already)dated CGI effects looking out of place in a 1970s production.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Fred Krueger View Post
You think it's not broke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Fred Krueger View Post
After 14 years it is simply time for people to get over it.
That's right. I prefer the original trilogy, I was completely happy with it. I'm not a big fan of CGI, and I don't think it's right for one man to go back and change movies that an entire staff of people worked on. I understand why Lucas might want to make changes and be so protective, but I'm really flabbergasted by your attitude.

How does it affect you if I can watch the original trilogy on BluRay? I don't begrudge you for preferring the Special Editions, but it seems like I'm completely wrong for disagreeing with Lucas on the direction of the Special Editions. I must admit I'm quite disappointed in the attitudes of my fellow Star Wars fans.
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  #33  
Old 03-08-2011, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
Completely relevant. We're discussing the simple concept of directors going back and making changes to a released film because of obstacles during filmmaking. Lucas wanted Jabba to be a non-human(but apparently wasn't sure if he wanted a furry creature or a giant slug yet). Okay, so he casts a human, 6 years later makes a giant slug puppet to represent the same character, then 15 years later uses a CGI slug to replace the human actor. Nolan wanted to use The Joker but the actor that played him died, so his decision was to take the sequel in a different direction and write the character out. Which was more respectful to the actor who helped create the character?
Again, it's not completely relevant...at all. I don't know why you're sticking with an argument pertaining to a film that has yet to be made in the Dark Knight Returns with a film that was made in 1977. Lucas cast a human as a STAND IN. To be replaced later. Heath Ledger was never meant to be replaced. He is a character that can be easily written out. Jabba was hiring bounty hunters all over the galaxy--his character was going to return in the third film. A human playing Jabba, again as a STAND IN, and jumping over to slug form isn't just a continuity error. It's completely inane.

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Yes I am absolutely fine with continuity errors such as this. When Rachael Dawes was played by a different actor in The Dark Knight, I was not distracted. I'm more distracted by (already)dated CGI effects looking out of place in a 1970s production.
Go back and watch those films in their unaltered state. The Death Star trench unaltered is totally dated, at least in my opinion. As far as the CG effects, Lucas did touch them up in the 2004 releases. Jabba in the '97 special edition admittedly wasn't great (though it was good for '97), but looks much better in the 2004 edition.






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That's right. I prefer the original trilogy, I was completely happy with it. I'm not a big fan of CGI, and I don't think it's right for one man to go back and change movies that an entire staff of people worked on. I understand why Lucas might want to make changes and be so protective, but I'm really flabbergasted by your attitude.

How does it affect you if I can watch the original trilogy on BluRay? I don't begrudge you for preferring the Special Editions, but it seems like I'm completely wrong for disagreeing with Lucas on the direction of the Special Editions. I must admit I'm quite disappointed in the attitudes of my fellow Star Wars fans.

If it seems like I'm trying to make it sound like you're in the wrong for preferring the originals, I apologize. I sincerely don't mean to sound like you're a jerk for not liking Lucas' decision (or me to look like a jerk, either). All I'm saying, from my point of view, is that Lucas as the artist, as the creator of this universe, as the auteur, should have the right to either change the films and make them look as he intended them to look as well as provide only those versions.

Last edited by Mr. Fred Krueger; 03-08-2011 at 05:17 PM..
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  #34  
Old 03-08-2011, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
You essentially ignored my argument. If Nolan made drastic changes to his Batman trilogy, such as replacing Ledger with a CGI Joker, would you gladly accept that as your official version? Or would you want the choice to view the movie as you originally saw it?
Nah... I didn't ignore your argument, I merely countered with a different one.

As far as TDK or TDKR goes, regardless of the changes (that don't yet exist, and likely won't) I would watch both... probably own both.

I've seen BOTH versions of the OT (At the drive in movie theater in its unaltered original state AND on VHS) I grew up with Star Wars as it was released... I would honestly watch either version.

As far as it goes... I'm not saying anyone's wrong for liking or disliking ANY version of ANY film (Star Wars), What I'm saying is that people have options - these options are VHS or DVD. So if you want to watch the originals bad enough, seek them out and watch them - NO ONE is forcing people to buy or watch something they don't want to see... Not even George Lucas.
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  #35  
Old 03-08-2011, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Fred Krueger View Post
Again, it's not completely relevant...at all. I don't know why you're sticking with an argument pertaining to a film that has yet to be made in the Dark Knight Returns with a film that was made in 1977. Lucas cast a human as a STAND IN. To be replaced later. Heath Ledger was never meant to be replaced. He is a character that can be easily written out. Jabba was hiring bounty hunters all over the galaxy--his character was going to return in the third film. A human playing Jabba, again as a STAND IN, and jumping over to slug form isn't just a continuity error. It's completely inane.
I have a very hard time believing that Lucas went through the trouble of hiring an actor to play Jabba with the intention of going back and replacing him years down the road. If they wanted him to be an alien(perhaps furry like Chewbacca) why not do that then? They had the Wookie suit already in the original Star Wars, there's no reason not to use something similar. If you ask me he only came up with the idea to replace the original Jabba actor when he realized technology was almost advanced enough to do so.

The reason I'm talking about The Dark Knight is because I wanted to bring up a film that's more relevant to the JoBlo community. Most of the people in this thread are closer to my age(like bourahioro) and weren't alive when Star Wars was originally released. I wanted to bring up a hypothetical scenario involving a film that we saw for the first time in the theater and consider it to be near-perfect. The Dark Knight is NOT perfect, but most of us are happy with it just the way it is. Just like the original fans of Star Wars who obsessed over in earlier decades.

Replacing Ledger would be sacrilege to TDK fans, and while his role is obviously a lot more significant than Jabba the Hut, I just don't buy that Lucas would cast and pay an actor to appear in his film as a stand in. That's not how filmmaking works.



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Originally Posted by Mr. Fred Krueger View Post
Go back and watch those films in their unaltered state. The Death Star trench unaltered is totally dated, at least in my opinion. As far as the CG effects, Lucas did touch them up in the 2004 releases. Jabba in the '97 special edition admittedly wasn't great (though it was good for '97), but looks much better in the 2004 edition.
I'd love to, where can I find the BluRay?

I'm okay with aspects of the original trilogy being dated. The bottom line is that I prefer practical effects, dated or not, to CGI. I prefer puppet Yoda to CGI Yoda, it's got a physical presence that CGI just can't match. CGI that is dated in less than 10 years is pretty sad, especially coming from a powerhouse like ILM. How much time did Lucas spend rendering those effects if he already had to update them in 2004? I think the answer is that this is more about making money that finally completing Lucas' vision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Fred Krueger View Post
If it seems like I'm trying to make it sound like you're in the wrong for preferring the originals, I apologize. I sincerely don't mean to sound like you're a jerk for not liking Lucas' decision (or me to look like a jerk, either). All I'm saying, from my point of view, is that Lucas as the artist, as the creator of this universe, as the auteur, should have the right to either change the films and make them look as he intended them to look as well as provide only those versions.
It's cool man, there has been a lot of hyperbole on both sides of the debate. The Lucas defense should probably try to empathize a bit more with other fans, and the purists should probably lighten the hell up a bit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bourahioro View Post
Nah... I didn't ignore your argument, I merely countered with a different one.

As far as TDK or TDKR goes, regardless of the changes (that don't yet exist, and likely won't) I would watch both... probably own both.

I've seen BOTH versions of the OT (At the drive in movie theater in its unaltered original state AND on VHS) I grew up with Star Wars as it was released... I would honestly watch either version.

As far as it goes... I'm not saying anyone's wrong for liking or disliking ANY version of ANY film (Star Wars), What I'm saying is that people have options - these options are VHS or DVD. So if you want to watch the originals bad enough, seek them out and watch them - NO ONE is forcing people to buy or watch something they don't want to see... Not even George Lucas.
Fair enough, I shouldn't have said you ignored my argument, I should have politely asked you to answer the specific question about Ledger. I definitely agree with your last paragraph. Nobody is being forced to buy anything, and anybody that does buy a DVD/BluRay and then complains is an idiot.

I just think it'd be nice of the consumers had both versions as an option so they could decide for themselves. The VHS thing is bunk though, assuming you have a decent home theater, would you rather watch The Dark Knight on VHS, DVD, or BluRay?
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  #36  
Old 03-08-2011, 08:31 PM
lol I understand what you're saying in that Blu-Ray and dvd are definitely the greater option over VHS... I'm just saying that it IS an option IF need be. I'm not at all arguing that a Blu-Ray release of the untouched OT would be a good thing.

My only point I'm was trying to made has been: Peeps don't HAVE to buy shit, but they do and STILL bitch.

I totally respect your opinion.

as a postscript I'd like to say that IF both versions were released on Blu-Ray I would buy The Complete Saga of the SE (newer editions) and would also buy JUST the OT (untouched).
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  #37  
Old 03-08-2011, 09:28 PM
Lucas planned it all along!
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  #38  
Old 03-09-2011, 07:30 PM
To all two of the people adamant on defending George Lucas:

I want to hear you defend Lucas' decision to make Greedo shoot first.
Go ahead, let's hear it.
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  #39  
Old 03-10-2011, 08:52 PM
I don't care WHY he did it... and I'm in no position to say whether or not he should have made that particular change. My points were made and I stand firm. Lucas made the Saga and he can do whatever he likes with it. People will pay, so complaining is useless.
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  #40  
Old 03-10-2011, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bourahioro View Post
I don't care WHY he did it... and I'm in no position to say whether or not he should have made that particular change. My points were made and I stand firm. Lucas made the Saga and he can do whatever he likes with it. People will pay, so complaining is useless.


Well you're right that complaining is useless...but as film geeks it is our duty to nitpick every little change he makes to the original trilogy.
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