Gay Marriage

[smok3h]

Following a day in which North Carolina voted to pass a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage (and civil unions and any other kind of legally recognized same-sex union), President Obama has officially announced that he now favors gay marriage (a reversal of his previous opinion).

I think it's only fitting that we discuss this. So do you favor same-sex marriage?

My answer to that is: Yes. Logically I cannot understand how anyone could be against it. People claim to not be anti-gay, but pro-marriage. I believe that intentional or not, this is a farce. The sad thing is is that many of these people are so anti-gay that they don't even realize it. They've convinced themselves that they're not anti-gay by coming up with some bogus rallying cry. I want to hear an intelligent person logically defend the statement that they're not anti-gray, but only pro-marriage.

Ultimately, the way I see it is this: if you vote for something that takes away the rights of a gay individual, then you're committing an anti-gay action, and thus, are being anti-gay.

[Squid Vicious]

Originally Posted by smok3h

President Obama has officially announced that he now favors gay marriage (a reversal of his previous opinion).

Not exactly.

[smok3h]

Haha, ok, so he only personally believes in it. But I still think that it's an important first step.

Normally I'm in favor of state laws, but not when it has do with issues of equal rights.

[Vong]

So it's legal for first cousins to get married in North Carolina, but not gay people...man, that state is fucked up.

[Vong]

I take that back...half of the United States is fucked up.

[SS-Block]

Ban all marriage, and ban breeding. As populations decrease, we'll employ people to deconstruct infrastucture accordingly. We say bon voyage to the natural ecosystem, and let the rest of life get on with it. There, sorted.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally Posted by Vong

I take that back...half of the United States is fucked up.

States where gay marriage is legal are also states where marrying cousins is legal. And both are legal throughout Canada.

[QUENTIN]

I believe that gay people should be allowed to get married in the sense that I believe accused terrorists deserve a trial by jury with full legal representation in the sense that I believe black men should be able to drive automobiles within the legal limits without being pulled over all the time. That is to say that I advocate a situational equality within the context of the society we are given even though such equality is in the broader sense fundamentally absurd. That a state can ban a relationship between individuals, or that a President's view on the matter is of national significance, is really awful to contemplate.

It's a ridiculous and tragic farce that consenting adult American citizens are legally prohibited from marrying other consenting adult American citizens on the basis that their genitals are the same type, but it's even more ridiculous that the government has any say in the matter in the first place and that those adults need state and federal permission slips to engage in an intimate, personal commitment.

[Vong]

Originally Posted by The Postmaster General

States where gay marriage is legal are also states where marrying cousins is legal. And both are legal throughout Canada.

My point is, if two consanguineous individuals are allowed to marry then why is it so immoral to allow same sex couples to?

[The Postmaster General]

Originally Posted by Vong

My point is, if two consanguineous individuals are allowed to marry then why is it so immoral to allow same sex couples to?

Yeah, I got that part with the first post. It's been floating around in gif form for a few days on social media. My confusion came from the second post and in trying to figure out where you were drawing the line between fucked up and not fucked up. By posting a list of 25 states where cousin marriage was legal, as a reference for saying half of America is fucked up, it appeared that you were saying "fucked up" goes along with legal cousin marriage. My point was that "fucked up" might not be so black and white as legal cousin marriage, because that also seemed to go mostly hand-in-hand with the government staying out of gay marriage. That's why I posted the confused version of Seinfeld. You seemed to be mixing messages: showing disdain toward laws disallowing gay marriage and disdain with America in general.

My take on gay marriage is probably pretty obvious because I like weddings. The more the better. Just don't put me in a wedding party and I'm fine. Open bars are cool. If there isn't even a wedding, I really like marriages because I really like shopping for cards and gifts. Even if it's a court house wedding, it's nice to know more married couples. Whatever the case, I'm just fine with people getting married. I don't think we can say something is sacred, but only to us. That's kind of Taliban-ish sounding.

Even if someone doesn't want to share with me that they are married, it's nice to know that people can express their love in whatever way they see fit. I don't even mind if that means they are extended rights such as tax credits or whatnot. Some people might abuse it, but people already abuse it - heterosexual couples do that all the time. Some heterosexual couples marry just for whatever entitlements, while others don't marry in order to receive different types of entitlements. If people were so concerned with the sanctity of marriage - these types of frauds would have been dealt with long before it because an issue of homosexuals getting married.

[Squid Vicious]

Originally Posted by smok3h

Haha, ok, so he only personally believes in it. But I still think that it's an important first step.

How? What he basically said was, "I support gay marriage, but I'm gonna do fuck all about it." He might as well have just not said anything at all, because his personal opinion is of no consequence in this context.

Oh, and it's also worth nothing that this was also Dick Cheney's position in 2004.

[smok3h]

Originally Posted by Squid Vicious

How? What he basically said was, "I support gay marriage, but I'm gonna do fuck all about it." He might as well have just not said anything at all, because his personal opinion is of no consequence in this context.

Oh, and it's also worth nothing that this was also Dick Cheney's position in 2004.

What did you expect him to say? He's a politician. Of course he's going to carefully pick and choose every word. He took a huge risk by coming out in support of same-sex marriage, but he also helped cover his ass by saying he believes it should be decided by the states. Make no mistake, Washington is closely monitoring how the nation is reacting to this news. If they see enough support for the issue, we might see action (eventually). That's why it's an important first step.

[The Postmaster General]

The criticism against the first sitting president to support gay marriage is bigger political maneuvering than anything Obama did regarding this matter. The ignoring of the context he brought it up and the statements that have been made from the administration since the announcement is just underhanded and cheap.

[hrdude]

Our current Prime Minister in Australia, Julia Gillard who is an athiest and "living in sin" with her partner will not support gay marriage. Purely a political decision unfortunately.

[JCPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Vong

So it's legal for first cousins to get married in North Carolina, but not gay people...man, that state is fucked up.

What's the big deal, provided everyone is a consenting adult? If two siblings/cousins want to get it on, why should it be anyone else's business? It's kind of stunning to me that people can go to prison for that.

I know there's the arguments regarding parents and kids but that's why there are other laws to handle that since it's at least pedophilia and statutory rape.

IMO, there's no difference between the right for siblings/cousins to get married and the right for gay marriage (and the right for heterosexual marriage). All should be legal regardless of societal taboos. And for that matter, laws sending people to prison for consensual incest should be eliminated.

[Cop No. 633]

Originally Posted by JCPhoenix

What's the big deal, provided everyone is a consenting adult? If two siblings/cousins want to get it on, why should it be anyone else's business? It's kind of stunning to me that people can go to prison for that.

I know there's the arguments regarding parents and kids but that's why there are other laws to handle that since it's at least pedophilia and statutory rape.

IMO, there's no difference between the right for siblings/cousins to get married and the right for gay marriage (and the right for heterosexual marriage). All should be legal regardless of societal taboos. And for that matter, laws sending people to prison for consensual incest should be eliminated.

You have a hot cousin you'd like to bang. Admit it.

As for the whole gay marriage issue, I think if you are against it and will vote against it and will post a status update about how you are against it, then you have way too much fucking time on your hands and no imagination. There's so many more things to worry over than two dudes getting married. It's really silly to think there are people who think about how evil it is on a daily basis.

[Squid Vicious]

The bottom picture is actually from 1959, but the point still stands...

[Frosty_86]

Originally Posted by smok3h

Following a day in which North Carolina voted to pass a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage (and civil unions and any other kind of legally recognized same-sex union), President Obama has officially announced that he now favors gay marriage (a reversal of his previous opinion).

I was highly pissed when the marriage amendment passed. I personally voted against the amendment. I will vote against any law that takes away rights of citizens just because they are different than the so-called majority. On election day a few weeks back I was talking to one of the guys that works with me. He's a 62 year old man who is heavily involved in his church. He was also voting against the amendment because he fully believed in separation of church and state. And to him this completely violated that line. I think a church has the full right to deny a couple to marry, it's been like that for years. I don't think the government should be able to butt in on religion, even though I am an atheist. I don't think a state should be aloud to deny the right of same-sex couples to marry because to me it infringes on the inalienable rights that are promised by the Constitution of the United States. And state can not deny a person the pursuit of happiness just because he or she is gay. I think people should be able to marry whomever they want to.

I think a real marriage is ultimately about love and trust, and a person should marry the person he or she loves and trusts the most over anybody else. I was friends with a girl in high school who had two gay next neighbors. At the time I met them they had been together for 15 years. Which means now they have been together for 25 years. In the time both of their parents had past away. One of the guys had a sister that did not agree with his way of life and disowned him. So these guys literally only had each other and of one of them died the other one would have absolutely no rights because of similar amendments and bills passed in North Carolina a few weeks ago. Is that right? I think not

[Flimmaker1473]

I couldn't care less if two gay people want to get married. That doesn't hurt me. But as a Christian in the bible it does say that marriage is shared between a man and a woman. I have had mixed feelings on this . But I say if people want to get married, who is anyone to stop them?

[DRbeauty]

The Bible also says a woman should marry her rapist, and gives exact instructions and how slaves should be sold. 18 years of Bible school was awesome!!

[Badbird]

Originally Posted by Flimmaker1473

But as a Christian in the bible it does say that marriage is shared between a man and a woman. I have had mixed feelings on this . But I say if people want to get married, who is anyone to stop them?

As an non-Christian, I don't give two shits about what the Bible says about anything. Our laws are not based on that book. Besides, the Bible has some pretty fucked up ideas about marriage anyway:

[DRbeauty]

Thank you Badbird for posting this chart. One of the many reasons I am now an agnostic is the cherry picking of religious people of what they want to follow in that horrible book

[Badbird]

And now people are freaking out over Oreos.

[Flimmaker1473]

I personally don't care if you believe in God or not. And I don't care about those charts. I don't care if you don't like the bible. But that is what I feel. God said a marriage should be shared between a man and woman. Like I said if two queers want to get married, go ahead that won't hurt me. That is why I think it should be legalize. Let people do whatever they want to do if it isn't hurting anyone. But it is unnatural. And I would like to see anyone try to argue that against me .

[Vong]

Originally Posted by Flimmaker1473

But it is unnatural. And I would like to see anyone try to argue that against me .

If you claim something as "unnatural" then you are either saying it doesn't happen "in nature" or doesn't constitute the natural (what allows creatures to continue to exist in nature) norm of a species. If it's the former, you are dead wrong. If it's the latter, you would be right.

It always tickles me that the religious will spout "unnatural" against homosexuality, as if they think it's right to use science to support their hate-filled and backwards religious propaganda against gay people.

[Cop No. 633]

If being gay is unnatural and only found in humans who have a "choice", then why do I constantly see male dogs trying to fuck each other?

[The Postmaster General]

Originally Posted by Cop No. 633

If being gay is unnatural and only found in humans who have a "choice", then why do I constantly see male dogs trying to fuck each other?

Not all dogs go to heaven.

[DRbeauty]

Wow. I was just expressing my beliefs about the religion I was indoctrinated for 18 years in Bible school and all. If you don't care about the fact that the Bible clearly condemns me for being bisexual, than that's fine. That's your belief. The fact is I'm going to hell according to the three Abrahamic religions because I enjoyed having sex with women.If there is a God, When I die, I will not apologize for that. I love my fiancee, who is a man, but I've berm sexually attracted to women for longer than with men.Since childhood.Anyways, homosexuality and bisexuality is rampant in nature, God's creations. I never chose to be bi, so I would then ask him why he creates only tohave them suffer than be destroyed.This s not a supposed loving God, but then I'm speaking as if I believe such a God exists. I believe we now finally have the scientific proof now that he doesn't. Never thought I would see that in my lifetime.

[Badbird]

Uh oh. Google has caught the gay.

So assuming the ring wing bigots decide to boycott Google, how will they find anything on the internet? Is there like a Christian Mingle version of Google?

[Flimmaker1473]

Originally Posted by DRbeauty

Wow. I was just expressing my beliefs about the religion I was indoctrinated for 18 years in Bible school and all. If you don't care about the fact that the Bible clearly condemns me for being bisexual, than that's fine. That's your belief. The fact is I'm going to hell according to the three Abrahamic religions because I enjoyed having sex with women.If there is a God, When I die, I will not apologize for that. I love my fiancee, who is a man, but I've berm sexually attracted to women for longer than with men.Since childhood.Anyways, homosexuality and bisexuality is rampant in nature, God's creations. I never chose to be bi, so I would then ask him why he creates only tohave them suffer than be destroyed.This s not a supposed loving God, but then I'm speaking as if I believe such a God exists. I believe we now finally have the scientific proof now that he doesn't. Never thought I would see that in my lifetime.

The Bible says that being gay is an abomination. It doesn't say to hate gay people though or condemn them. Who is to say a gay person can't get into heaven?

As for there being scientific proof that God doesn't exist that is a LIE. Science doesn't have all the answers. But believe what you want.

[DRbeauty]

If yOu've read the Bible it clearly states in several passages what awaits us queers. Maybe I should post some verses for you. If you do not repent of your sins you will go to hell. There is no getting around that. Being gay is a sin according to religion. Science has provided many factual answers to life's questions, whereas the bible which is compromised of unoriginal work, inconsistencies, and story after story promoting racism, hatred, and misogyny. If you choose to live your life believing a fairy tale that's up to you.

[Flimmaker1473]

Being gay is a sin.

Science has THEORIES. They are not FACT. Science has proven SHIT. You are calling my religion a fairy tale. Look at get you want to be agnostic or whatever. That is your right. But don't call my beliefs a fairy tale. If you choose to believe irrationally in science then why can't I believe irrationally in God?

This is why I hate the internet. People can spew stuff like this.

[DRbeauty]

I eon't want to be agnostic I am first of all. Second of all I suggest you put on your big girl pants and deal with the fact that there are other opinions out there. Besides your own. If you believe science hasn't proven "shit" than you must be a very uneducated person. It amuses me that theists such as yourself find it perfectly ok to proclaim your religion when religion promotes the belief that you cannot be a good person or go to heaven if you don't do x,y,z. How thou can't see how that in itself is insulting boggles my mind. Very interesting how you believe a book is the truth and son's even question it. Thank you for calling me a sin.Ask your god why he made me this way

[DRbeauty]

Furthermore, I will call your beliefs a fairytale, nonsense, stupidly, superstition all I want, and you can call me a hellhound simmer as
ICU as you want. I guess it's only ok to be insulting if God is on yor side? Open your mind

[Flimmaker1473]

Here is the thing. You are trying to pass your opinions as fact.

Science has theories like I said. They not fact. Some of them do make sense. But they are called theories for a reason. That leaves room for something else to be the case.

You have to be willing to accept that there is a God to go to heaven. That makes perfect sense. Why would you get to reside in heaven if you don't accept the creator?

You called my beliefs a fairytale and you don't see how it is insulting? Come on now. I could easily say you don't believe in God because of your bitterness of what the bible says about gays. How you kinda just sound bitter with your post. Did you not have a good experience at Bible school?

And no one is born gay. You are gay by choice or by experiences you had when you were younger. The whole born gay thing is B.S and just a cop out.

By the way my mind is open. And I choose God. You know why? I don't believe that yeah ... there's this big giant universe and it's expanding, it's all gonna collapse on itself and we're all just here just 'cause ... just 'cause'. That, to me, is the most ridiculous explanation ever.

[Squid Vicious]

Originally Posted by Flimmaker1473

And no one is born gay. You are gay by choice or by experiences you had when you were younger. The whole born gay thing is B.S and just a cop out.

Cool. So, when did you choose to be straight?

[DRbeauty]

I love how you presume to know me and my experiences to assume I and millions of other gays have chosen to be persecuted, hated, murdered,and oppressed for our "choice". Maybe il have a seance and tell my dead gay friend who commuted suicide that if only he didn't choose to be gay his life would not have been miserable. Do you realize how ignorant you sound. Even my Christian mom who is a schoolteacher knows homosexuality Is no choice, when many of her preschool students exhibit homosexual tendencies, and later do accept what they are. I cannot continue a serious conversation with you, if you believe this foolishness

[Flimmaker1473]

Originally Posted by Squid Vicious

Cool. So, when did you choose to be straight?

Everyone is born straight. Like I said it is unnatural to be gay.

[Flimmaker1473]

Originally Posted by DRbeauty

I love how you presume to know me and my experiences to assume I and millions of other gays have chosen to be persecuted, hated, murdered,and oppressed for our "choice". Maybe il have a seance and tell my dead gay friend who commuted suicide that if only he didn't choose to be gay his life would not have been miserable. Do you realize how ignorant you sound. Even my Christian mom who is a schoolteacher knows homosexuality Is no choice, when many of her preschool students exhibit homosexual tendencies, and later do accept what they are. I cannot continue a serious conversation with you, if you believe this foolishness

Your gay friend committed suicide because he was weak.

Being Gay is a choice. No one is born to like the same sex. Like I said it is a cop out for gay people to say to make sense of the fact they like the same sex.

[DRbeauty]

Yes, he was weak from being beaten every day by his father and asshole So called Christians. Thank you for that