#81  
Old 09-30-2012, 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotch View Post
@Erroneous my previous name was Sgizzy316. I understand your point of view. Obviously tone cannot be translated through text so sometimes it's hard to determine what angle someone is taking especially in a discussion that can create so much passion. It's true that we are all effected by our environment and where we grow up and reside. So your point of view meeting what the majority of your part of the country feels makes perfect sense.
I didn't realize you were Sgizzy316. Why do you switch between names?
  #82  
Old 09-30-2012, 09:33 PM
http://www.joblo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146873

geez l put this in the non movie area but this is a great area for you guys to talk about this polition in Australia who wanted gay marriage to not be reconized at all

His statements were that bad that he was booted out of the Liberal party
  #83  
Old 09-30-2012, 10:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by magjournal View Post
You pointed out that civil unions are a state issue, meaning you can go anywhere in the country and your marriage is recognized, but you can't do the same and have a civil union always recognized. They're not equal and they really should be.
That is the beauty of America. The same goes for abortion, gun laws, smoking laws, driving laws, capital punishment, ect....

The biggest issue I have with gay people and this issue is this; they are in such a hurry to get what they want now. Let it come naturally. Every issue in the gay world has taken time for people to accept and understand. There are millions of people who think being gay is a choice. You can't get from A to Z without getting through the other letters. I say they not push so hard and piss people off so much and just give it some time. Win a few states and give it some more time. In the end, I think they will get what they want. Then the fun begins. I want to see messy gay divorces. lol
  #84  
Old 09-30-2012, 10:36 PM
Well it is true that you see alot of gay people fighting for there rights

They have fought this for ages and now to some exstent people are seeing other things about then just being gay

Even in Australia we have the mardi grah in Sydeny every year and that shows that normal hetersexaul people are seeing another side

But i am surprised that in some states of America they have passed the gay marriage law and there has been no problem
Why is it so hard to make changes

i
  #85  
Old 09-30-2012, 11:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by magjournal View Post
I didn't realize you were Sgizzy316. Why do you switch between names?
It was time for an upgrade
  #86  
Old 09-30-2012, 11:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
That is just the point. It is not the same thing. Both relationships are not the same thing. The only thing that makes it the same is that we are all humans. If someone wants to marry their dog (and some people have tried), we call it a different name.
Holy mother fucking shit. Okay. Forget it. Whatever credibility you may have had is gone. You have nothing of value to offer this conversation. You have no concept of reality. You are spouting indefensible nonsense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
You paint us all as obtuse.
Because that's what you are. You just compared two consenting adults to a man marrying a dog. If it weren't for the Joblo code of conducts, I would release the Kraken on your ass.

Even if you were just joking, you've managed to make yourself look worse. You are belittling an entire population, telling them to fuck off and that they can have their civil rights only when you are good and ready enough to give it to them. But for now you're just not "comfortable" in holding them with the same regard that you do as normal, well adjusted straight people. So instead, they're on the same plane of existence as dogs and other four legged animals.

I suppose that when gays are allowed to marry in your state, you would prefer that they hold the ceremony in a kennel for now, because your not ready to let them have access to a church or human courthouse just yet.

So go ahead gays. Wait it out. Erroneous hasn't elevated you to human yet, and we really need to show respect for his feelings. Meanwhile if one of them has to go to the hospital, their partners will have to wait outside why they fucking die.
  #87  
Old 10-01-2012, 05:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
That is the beauty of America. The same goes for abortion, gun laws, smoking laws, driving laws, capital punishment, ect....

The biggest issue I have with gay people and this issue is this; they are in such a hurry to get what they want now. Let it come naturally. Every issue in the gay world has taken time for people to accept and understand. There are millions of people who think being gay is a choice. You can't get from A to Z without getting through the other letters. I say they not push so hard and piss people off so much and just give it some time. Win a few states and give it some more time. In the end, I think they will get what they want. Then the fun begins. I want to see messy gay divorces. lol
American is meant to protect the minority from the majority. How can they do that if the rights of flesh-and-blood people are held to a vote by the public? No one would dare hold heterosexual marriage to a public vote in each state. And of course gays want their rights now. Would you tell blacks in the 1960s to just "let it come naturally"? They waited a hundred years after slavery was abolished and they still didn't have equal rights, and it wasn't until they marched and protested that they got equal rights. I see this as no different; they're being penalized for being born a certain way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotch View Post
It was time for an upgrade
I thought you were the highest tier of Schmoe. But you've had this account for eight years and you've definitely used the Sgizzy316 account recently.
  #88  
Old 10-01-2012, 06:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
You are doing what the liberal media loves to do and just make the other side seem like horrible people and it is wrong.
Hmm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
If someone wants to marry their dog (and some people have tried), we call it a different name.
Yes, you're right. How dare I paint "the other side" as horrible people when they openly write things like this...
  #89  
Old 10-01-2012, 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
That is the beauty of America. The same goes for abortion, gun laws, smoking laws, driving laws, capital punishment, ect....

The biggest issue I have with gay people and this issue is this; they are in such a hurry to get what they want now. Let it come naturally. Every issue in the gay world has taken time for people to accept and understand. There are millions of people who think being gay is a choice. You can't get from A to Z without getting through the other letters. I say they not push so hard and piss people off so much and just give it some time. Win a few states and give it some more time. In the end, I think they will get what they want. Then the fun begins. I want to see messy gay divorces. lol
So gay people have to wait till everybody is cool with gays to get married? You are aware there are still people who see interracial marriages as wrong, right? Exactly how long do you think gay people have been waiting for the right to get married? Like do you believe this desire only started 4 years ago? Seriously, just take a moment and imagine the mundane aspects of your life being a political and legal issue and then think about "being in a hurry" again in that context.

How are gay people pissing off people? There are folks who are just mad/hate/against gay people for being gay, period. Like you just mention gays and they go off like a science fair volcano. And this is without bringing up the leatherdaddy, Village People, bull-dyke imagery. You do not wait for these people to "get with it", and you certainly don't hold the activation date for your legal rights to be affirmed with them.

Black folk were getting killed for fighting for their civil rights, and there were lots of people angry about that back then as well. When MLK was shot should black people have taken a break sat back and waited for everyone else to get cool with this whole inalienable rights for all idea?

There is no "right time', "better time" more "convenient time" for fighting for your rights. Gays not being allowed to marry in this country despite being full US citizens is an injustice. If you let things stay as they are and not push the issue people will just think everything is fine and dandy the way they are, and nothing changes. Plain and simple.

Sometimes people need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century. And as of late we seem to be more inclined to revisit the past (The Pill, Scopes Monkey trial, etc). So the gays get to have this.

Last edited by electriclite; 10-01-2012 at 08:50 PM..
  #90  
Old 10-01-2012, 08:20 PM
Well you would have to look at Australia as a exsample

The Australian goverment allows gays certain rights but they will not pass through a bill of marriage between two partners who are gay male or female

There is even gay polititions in the goverment as well and they have not got enough support to pass it through

I still think that marriage should be between man and women but one day this will be changed and l am not going to say l would be against it

But l have to say that there is a few gay members on this board and l think we need to becareful on how we affend them



i
  #91  
Old 10-02-2012, 12:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badbird View Post
Holy mother fucking shit. Okay. Forget it. Whatever credibility you may have had is gone. You have nothing of value to offer this conversation. You have no concept of reality. You are spouting indefensible nonsense.
I make plenty of sense. You are the other hand, can not have a conversation without getting insulting and I again reported you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magjournal View Post
American is meant to protect the minority from the majority. How can they do that if the rights of flesh-and-blood people are held to a vote by the public? No one would dare hold heterosexual marriage to a public vote in each state. And of course gays want their rights now. Would you tell blacks in the 1960s to just "let it come naturally"? They waited a hundred years after slavery was abolished and they still didn't have equal rights, and it wasn't until they marched and protested that they got equal rights. I see this as no different; they're being penalized for being born a certain way.
.
Sorry dude, I dont make the laws. That is just how it works. Like abortion they should pass an admendment. End the debates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squid Vicious View Post
Yes, you're right. How dare I paint "the other side" as horrible people when they openly write things like this...
I am sorry you do not understand my point. I am not going to that my time to spell it out for you. It is sad a few of you can't seem to understand the point and always go straight into the gutter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by electriclite View Post
So gay people have to wait till everybody is cool with gays to get married? You are aware there are still people who see interracial marriages as wrong, right? Exactly how long do you think gay people have been waiting for the right to get married? Like do you believe this desire only started 4 years ago? Seriously, just take a moment and imagine the mundane aspects of your life being a political and legal issue and then think about "being in a hurry" again in that context.
Yes. Yes. And there are millions less who think this way from 20 years ago. People were in the closet until recently. Gay people have come a long way in a short period of time. I believe they should be patient. If you don't agree that is cool, but don't pretend that the way you think is how the majority think. When it is put to a vote, it loses pretty much every time.

Quote:
How are gay people pissing off people? There are folks who are just mad/hate/against gay people for being gay, period. Like you just mention gays and they go off like a science fair volcano. And this is without bringing up the leatherdaddy, Village People, bull-dyke imagery. You do not wait for these people to "get with it", and you certainly don't hold the activation date for your legal rights to be affirmed with them.
Exactly. There are still millions of anti gay people and they are mostly from the mid west and south. Don't shoot the messenger.


Quote:
Black folk were getting killed for fighting for their civil rights, and there were lots of people angry about that back then as well. When MLK was shot should black people have taken a break sat back and waited for everyone else to get cool with this whole inalienable rights for all idea?

There is no "right time', "better time" more "convenient time" for fighting for your rights. Gays not being allowed to marry in this country despite being full US citizens is an injustice. If you let things stay as they are and not push the issue people will just think everything is fine and dandy the way they are, and nothing changes. Plain and simple.

Sometimes people need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century. And as of late we seem to be more inclined to revisit the past (The Pill, Scopes Monkey trial, etc). So the gays get to have this.
Getting married is not a right. You can not compare what black people went through to what gay people are going through.

Sometimes when you drag people kicking and screaming into the 21st century bad things happen. I feel it is better if things take their time a times. There is nothing wrong with saying they should be patient.
  #92  
Old 10-02-2012, 12:11 AM
Well it is true it is a shame that when you talk about diffrent topics you are always going to ahve someone who will be negtive about it

maybe whe that happens you look at the positive ones because there are plenty here to look at

I wanted to state this again how many American states or is it counties that have passed the Gay marriage law
  #93  
Old 10-02-2012, 01:20 AM
Erroneous, just as a friend looking out I would suggest you not report people from any topic in the political boards. There's a reason JoBlo requires us all to get permission to post specifically on these threads. And reporting people will not help you make friends easily. I know you will probably say that you aren't looking to make friends but you are looking to post and contribute on some of these conversations. Reporting people will make your time short lived. And if you look at this discussion in its' entirety it seems to be you versus everyone else. Often when that happens it's time to look in the mirror and see who really might be in the wrong. I'm not saying that you are in the wrong or that every time there is a majority that they are always right, I'm still making the point that reporting people in these types of situations doesn't help you in the long run.

My last question to you is that since you say that getting married is not a right, why such the uproar in not calling it marriage for gays and lesbians?
  #94  
Old 10-02-2012, 01:27 AM
Maybe some people ahve diffent veiws because they have grown up in diffeent era

Where it was always a man and a women who got married and then they had children

Which makes a family untit

But l have to say things are diffrent these days and you will have couples who are male and female or gay

I hope eventaully everyone will be excepted

But l think it will be a long time before this will be excepted in some countries
  #95  
Old 10-02-2012, 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotch View Post
Erroneous, just as a friend looking out I would suggest you not report people from any topic in the political boards. There's a reason JoBlo requires us all to get permission to post specifically on these threads. And reporting people will not help you make friends easily. I know you will probably say that you aren't looking to make friends but you are looking to post and contribute on some of these conversations. Reporting people will make your time short lived. And if you look at this discussion in its' entirety it seems to be you versus everyone else. Often when that happens it's time to look in the mirror and see who really might be in the wrong. I'm not saying that you are in the wrong or that every time there is a majority that they are always right, I'm still making the point that reporting people in these types of situations doesn't help you in the long run.

My last question to you is that since you say that getting married is not a right, why such the uproar in not calling it marriage for gays and lesbians?
I do not agree with you. I have seen many people use disrespect to others and I am going to report them when it happens to me. People hear (badbird and some others) should learn how to talk to people nicely. Perhaps their time will be short lived.

Marriage is not right. Me, personally, I have no uproar. I am saying how a lot of closed minded people think. Me, personally, I do not think they should be called the same thing, because they are two totally different types of relationships. If they call both a marriage, I am not going to bitch and complain. It does not matter to me all that much, but I still have my opinion and will vote accordingly.

I also think they took off the requirement of having to ask to be in this board. A few people did not ask and are allowed it. Bond girl never asked and is posting for one
  #96  
Old 10-02-2012, 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
Yes. Yes. And there are millions less who think this way from 20 years ago. People were in the closet until recently. Gay people have come a long way in a short period of time. I believe they should be patient. If you don't agree that is cool, but don't pretend that the way you think is how the majority think. When it is put to a vote, it loses pretty much every time.



Exactly. There are still millions of anti gay people and they are mostly from the mid west and south. Don't shoot the messenger.




Getting married is not a right. You can not compare what black people went through to what gay people are going through.

Sometimes when you drag people kicking and screaming into the 21st century bad things happen. I feel it is better if things take their time a times. There is nothing wrong with saying they should be patient.


Won't somebody PLLLLEEEEEAAAAASSSSSEEEE think of the bigots???
  #97  
Old 10-02-2012, 12:16 PM
Let's envision Erroneous's posts in the 1950s with some good old Mad Libs:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
Here is my opinion on interracial marriage.

I have nothing against Asian people. This is a state issue. If the people of a state want to call a legal relationship between a yellow and a white a marriage and it is the will of the people, then marriage is what we call it.

If it comes up for a vote and it defeated, then the will of the people who live in that state have every right to not call a legal relationship between a yellow and a white a marriage.

Personally, who the fuck cares what a legal relationship is called. Civil unions give the same rights and priviledges as a marriage, then that should be good enough for all. What is so wrong with normal unions being called a marriage and interracial union being called a civil union? Interracial couples should stop being such assholes and thinking they are being treated differently than other reg couples. For the last few thousand years, a marriage was between a white man and a white woman. period. I am not going to call an interracial couple a normal couple. They are an interracial couple and more power to them and good luck, go have mixed babies, ect, but they are still an interracial couple. That is how we label them in society. Get over it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
NO, you are. I say marriage is equal to civil union. One is for normal couples and one is for interracial couples. You are the one saying Civil union is not a marriage. I never said they were not equal, but they are not the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
We can stick to the legal definition and leave religion out of it since that does not matter since it is politicians making up the laws. What you say is true, but only for those in the minority who are totally against interracial people. The majority are people like me that have no issue with Asian people, but just want the two different unions to be called different things. To people like me, it is like calling a Caucasian a Caucasian and an Asian an Asian. If Asians want to be called Caucasians, it is not going to happen. I am not talking about mixed race, which is a totally dif topic. lol

What happened in the 50's is not the same at all. To the hardcore people, who just hate Asian people in every way, it is the same. But like I said, those people are in the minority. Most people have no issue with Asian people mainly, because everyone knows someone who is Asian and likes them. Everyone has an Asian friend, cousin, brother, sister, ect. Civil unions do not limit marriage. All the same rights and priviledges are afforded for all. Asian people do not even call their spouse a spouse. They say "laopo or laogong" and everyone on both sides is cool with that. Asian people do not want a different word, because they want to believe that what they are doing is the same is everyone else. They are not. All people like me ask is to call a standard type relationship between a white man and a white woman, a marriage and an interracial relationship to be called a civil union. I, we, are not looking down on Asian people or trying to making it seem like a civil union is not as good. For the legal definition, it has to be called different things, because they are not the same. There needs to be some sort of way to distingish between the two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
NO, you are. I say marriage is equal to civil union. One is for normal couples and one is for interracial couples. You are the one saying Civil union is not a marriage. I never said they were not equal, but they are not the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
That is just mind-numbingly stupid???? You should open your mind and start thinking then.

It is called two different things, because non-mixed couples who are married don't want interracial couples to call their relationship the same thing. It is that simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
That is just the point. It is not the same thing. Both relationships are not the same thing. The only thing that makes it the same is that we are all humans. If someone wants to marry their dog (and some people have tried), we call it a different name.

You paint us all as obtuse. I am painting many of you as baiters. Like I said in my prev post people who want both relationships to be called the same thing call people who do not think like that do every name in the book to make us seem wrong. As if we are all horrible people for not agreeing with your view.

Last edited by JCPhoenix; 10-02-2012 at 12:22 PM..
  #98  
Old 10-02-2012, 01:01 PM
So instead of making a real argument or having an opinion you just change his words come on....
  #99  
Old 10-02-2012, 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderStorm View Post
So instead of making a real argument or having an opinion you just change his words come on....
...not sure if serious...
  #100  
Old 10-02-2012, 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderStorm View Post
So instead of making a real argument or having an opinion you just change his words come on....
I absolutely have things to say regarding this issue and it begins with provoking him to think about what he has posted so far in a more critical manner.

The whole point of replacing all of Erroneous's references to gay marriage with references to interracial marriage was not to take potshots but directly in response to Erroneous's quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
Getting married is not a right. You can not compare what black people went through to what gay people are going through.
The point was to show just how comparable the issues are using as many of his own arguments about gay marriage as possible except replacing all instances of it with interracial marriage to show how ludicrous and offensive his posts sound. The point was to show how it IS indeed a comparable issue (I chose Asians instead of blacks partly because I'm Asian and partly because I'm aware Erroneous's wife is Asian, to make the point hit harder).
  #101  
Old 10-02-2012, 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post


Yes. Yes. And there are millions less who think this way from 20 years ago. People were in the closet until recently. Gay people have come a long way in a short period of time. I believe they should be patient. If you don't agree that is cool, but don't pretend that the way you think is how the majority think.
A "short period of time" is a very suggestive definition, especially given the fact that there is no official set standard for how long an oppressed/threatened group has to wait in order to qualify to petition to have the same rights as other people who they share the exact same citizenship with. The gay rights movement has been in effect since the 60's. The Stonewall riots were in 1969. Is 43 years not long enough?

I am under no delusion that what I believe is shared across the country. I've got at least one vocal relative who makes their opinion well known and a couple others whom I can easily assume what their opinion is. My question is why are their feelings the ones being prioritized above those who are pro gay marriage? Why are we supposed to be held hostage by bigots?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
Exactly. There are still millions of anti gay people and they are mostly from the mid west and south. Don't shoot the messenger.

When it is put to a vote, it loses pretty much every time.
You've highlighted a very important fact and that is people can't vote in favor of something that is unconstitutional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
Getting married is not a right. You can not compare what black people went through to what gay people are going through.
Maybe not, but I can compare the backlash and vitriol against those groups when they began requesting to have something similar as the rest of their fellow citizens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
Sometimes when you drag people kicking and screaming into the 21st century bad things happen. I feel it is better if things take their time a times. There is nothing wrong with saying they should be patient.
This patience thing has been long applied everytime gays or any other group has tried to get something everyone else had and came up against challengers. Charlene Strong had to fight for other people to be able to have access to their same-sex spouses and make legal decisions for their partners without having to go through a lawyer and collecting a binder full of legal proof they can be there and make decisions. They wanted the the implied rights immediately given to any straight couple. Lots of people were against giving them that as well. One was even quoted as seeing it as part of a continued gay "agenda", what with them already living out in the open, competing for public office, being taught and accepted as normal in schools. This "agenda" is the agenda of all human beings. They want nothing more then what straight people take for granted. And let's be clear, its not the right to get married, its the right to the legal rights afforded immediately to married people.

The bottom line is before we actually created special provisions for gays because we wouldn't give them the same rights as straight couples, we ended up up giving them special rights not afforded to straight people, which also ended up pissing off straight people. They thought, and correctly so, that gays were getting special rights, but only because they were actually denied a simple one. So in the end we either open up the same rights as straight people to them or we take away all their rights so as not to upset others, which is at the heart of your "patience" argument.

Last edited by electriclite; 10-02-2012 at 03:11 PM..
  #102  
Old 10-02-2012, 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by electriclite View Post
A "short period of time" is a very suggestive definition, especially given the fact that there is no official set standard for how long an oppressed/threatened group has to wait in order to qualify to petition to have the same rights as other people who they share the exact same citizenship with. The gay rights movement has been in effect since the 60's. The Stonewall riots were in 1969. Is 43 years not long enough?

I am under no delusion that what I believe is shared across the country. I've got at least one vocal relative who makes their opinion well known and a couple others whom I can easily assume what their opinion is. My question is why are their feelings the ones being prioritized above those who are pro gay marriage? Why are we supposed to be held hostage by bigots?
Thank you for a spirited and civil debate. 43 years is not enough, no. CA the most liberal state around voted down same sex marriage. Clearly, 43 years is not enough. It is going to take time, but in the end they will win.




Quote:
You've highlighted a very important fact and that is people can't vote in favor of something that is unconstitutional.
I don't think the Constitution would ever have an amendment declaring gays can't marry or abortion illegal.



Quote:
This patience thing has been long applied everytime gays or any other group has tried to get something everyone else had and came up against challengers. Charlene Strong had to fight for other people to be able to have access to their same-sex spouses and make legal decisions for their partners without having to go through a lawyer and collecting a binder full of legal proof they can be there and make decisions. They wanted the the implied rights immediately given to any straight couple. Lots of people were against giving them that as well. One was even quoted as seeing it as part of a continued gay "agenda", what with them already living out in the open, competing for public office, being taught and accepted as normal in schools. This "agenda" is the agenda of all human beings. They want nothing more then what straight people take for granted. And let's be clear, its not the right to get married, its the right to the legal rights afforded immediately to married people.
That is why I am in favor of making civil union have all the rights and privs as a marriage. It is really unfair to be in a relationship with a gay person for a long period of time and then have someone else make important decisions. It is a lot easier to modify laws. The insurance companies suck in this regard.

Quote:
The bottom line is before we actually created special provisions for gays because we wouldn't give them the same rights as straight couples, we ended up up giving them special rights not afforded to straight people, which also ended up pissing off straight people. They thought, and correctly so, that gays were getting special rights, but only because they were actually denied a simple one. So in the end we either open up the same rights as straight people to them or we take away all their rights so as not to upset others, which is at the heart of your "patience" argument.
10 years or so ago people were up in arms that gay people were able to adopt children. This is not nearly the issue it once was. Patience works. One of the few things that patience will not fix is if you name your child Adolf or grow a Hitler tashe.
  #103  
Old 10-02-2012, 04:35 PM
Just to throw my 2 cents in not that it especially matters, I don't have a real problem with gay marriage being legalized according to the government. In this case it isn't the governments concern and if it makes two people happy then it isn't any of my or the governments business. Now if the government tries to pass laws forcing religious institutions to accept gay marriage then that is a different story, but if gay marriage is legal in civil society no problem.
  #104  
Old 10-02-2012, 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderStorm View Post
So instead of making a real argument or having an opinion you just change his words come on....
That's all the argument you need.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderStorm View Post
Now if the government tries to pass laws forcing religious institutions to accept gay marriage then that is a different story, but if gay marriage is legal in civil society no problem.
Right, just like how the government forces Catholic churches to marry any non-Catholic that wants to get married there. Oh, wait. They don't. Never mind; just another red herring.
  #105  
Old 10-02-2012, 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
I make plenty of sense. You are the other hand, can not have a conversation without getting insulting and I again reported you.
Listen. I don't know how to put this out there without blowing your cover, but... I've figured you out. You are clearly a time traveler from the 50s or 60s. I know that the 21st century must be very confusing for someone displaced by so many decades, and I don't know how you've figured out how to work a computer so well, but you really need to take it down a notch. Timecops are out there, and they are looking for people in the wrong decade. They may be tracking you at this very moment. I would suggest getting gay married as soon as possible in order to maintain your secret identity.


PS, If your time machine still works, could you please go back and stop 9/11? That would be great.
  #106  
Old 10-02-2012, 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
Thank you for a spirited and civil debate. 43 years is not enough, no. CA the most liberal state around voted down same sex marriage. Clearly, 43 years is not enough. It is going to take time, but in the end they will win.


I don't think the Constitution would ever have an amendment declaring gays can't marry or abortion illegal.
Californians also voted back in the 70's that property taxes would never be raised. Now they have a growing deficit and one less avenue to generate revenue from.

Referendums are not all sacred, legal brilliance. You can't vote for something that can be deemed illegal. Otherwise pot would be legal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
That is why I am in favor of making civil union have all the rights and privs as a marriage. It is really unfair to be in a relationship with a gay person for a long period of time and then have someone else make important decisions. It is a lot easier to modify laws. The insurance companies suck in this regard.
Agreed, unfortunately these people who we have to be patient with voted in one of the Carolinas, I believe, to actually rescind that option for both gays and straight people. Essentially tossing out the baby with the bathwater in order to assert their bias.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
10 years or so ago people were up in arms that gay people were able to adopt children. This is not nearly the issue it once was. Patience works.
Right, but not because gay people sat around and patiently waited. They made an issue of it and fought and now because of that effort it is one of the things that is no longer an issue.

Things do not change because there's some timer out there that dings and voila! You now have a right. Its work.

Last edited by electriclite; 10-02-2012 at 05:57 PM..
  #107  
Old 10-02-2012, 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by electriclite View Post
Right, but not because gay people sat around and patiently waited. They made an issue of it and fought and now because of that effort it is one of the things that is no longer an issue.

Things do not change because there's some timer out there that dings and voila! You now have a right. Its work.
Somewhat relevant: most recent Savage Love...

I was wondering what you think about the Folsom Street Fair, the annual gay leather/fetish/BDSM street fair in San Francisco. Do you think it is still a socially relevant display? Or do you think that in this time when we are fighting for civil rights and equality that it does more harm than good?

Better Displaying San Francisco


I'm pretty sure that the Folsom Street Fair remains socially relevant—and highly so—to folks in the leather/fetish/BDSM scene in San Francisco. It's also relevant to anyone who believes in freedom of sexual expression. (For an idea of what Folsom looks like, and to see the scale of the thing, search for "Folsom Street Fair" on YouTube.)

And it's important to emphasize that the Folsom Street Fair, which took place last weekend, isn't exclusively gay. Thousands of straight kinksters attend every year. About the only difference between the straight attendees and the queer ones is that no one claims that the kinky straight people at Folsom make all heterosexuals everywhere look like sex-crazed sadomasochists. (For the record: Sex-crazed sadomasochists are my favorite kind of sadomasochists.)

Straight people, of course, aren't fighting for their fundamental civil rights. Kinky straights can marry in all 50 states, after all, and no one is pledging to kick kinky straights out of the armed forces or to write anti-kinky-straight bigotry into the US Constitution. So maybe it's not the same—maybe it's not as politically risky—when straight people come out in bondage gear, leather chaps, and pony masks. But straight people are a big part of Folsom, too.

But you didn't ask about kinky straight people. You wondered if the Folsom Street Fair was harming the struggle for LGBT equality.

The Folsom Street Fair has taken place on a Sunday in September in San Francisco every year since 1984. Pride parades have been taking place on a Sunday in June in cities all over the country since the early 1970s. And every year, we hear from concern trolls about the damage that's supposedly being done to the LGBT rights movement by all those drag queens, go-go boys, dykes, and leather guys at Pride or Folsom or International Mr. Leather.

But everyone acknowledges—even our enemies—that the gay rights movement has made extraordinary strides in the 43 years since the Stonewall Riots in New York City. We're not all the way there yet, we have yet to secure our full civil equality, but the pace of progress has been unprecedented in the history of social justice movements. The women's suffrage movement, for example, was launched in the United States in 1848. It took more than 70 years to pass the 19th Amendment, which extended the vote to women. In 1969, at the time of the Stonewall Riots, gay sex was illegal in 49 states. Gay sex is now legal in every US state, gay marriage is legal in six states and our nation's capital (and in all of Canada), and gays, lesbians, and bisexuals can serve openly in the military. (The armed forces still discriminate against trans people.) And we've made this progress despite fierce opposition from the religious right, a deadly plague that wiped out a generation of gay men, and—gasp—all those leather guys at Folsom and the go-go boys and drag queens at Pride.

We couldn't have come so far, so fast if Folsom or pride parades were harming our movement. And I would argue that leather guys, dykes on bikes, go-go boys, and drag queens have actually helped our movement, BDSF. They demonstrate to all people that our movement isn't just about the freedom to be gay or straight. Our movement is about the freedom to be whatever kind of straight, gay, lesbian, bi, or trans person you want to be. And freedom, as Dick Cheney famously said, means freedom for everyone—from pantsuit-wearing POS sellouts like Mary Cheney and Chris Barron to kinky straight people and hot gay boys in harnesses.

I don't think it's a coincidence that cities with big pride parades and events like Folsom are more tolerant and more accepting of sexual minorities than cities that don't have big gay parades and fetish street fairs. If an event like Folsom were actually counterproductive, BDSF, you would expect San Francisco to be less tolerant and less likely to back equal rights for sexual minorities, not more likely.

And finally, BDSF, any attempt to shut down the Folsom Street Fair—or to ban drag queens, go-go boys, dykes on bikes, or leather guys from pride parades—would be so poisonously divisive that it would do more harm to our movement than a thousand Folsom Street Fairs ever could.
  #108  
Old 10-02-2012, 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badbird View Post
That's all the argument you need.




Right, just like how the government forces Catholic churches to marry any non-Catholic that wants to get married there. Oh, wait. They don't. Never mind; just another red herring.
I never said the government would do that I was just saying when it wouldn't be acceptable, damn your a hostile, ignorant person you need to relax and actually read and understand what I said before you make statements that make you sound like a fool.

Last edited by ThunderStorm; 10-02-2012 at 06:54 PM..
  #109  
Old 10-02-2012, 08:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderStorm View Post
I never said the government would do that I was just saying when it wouldn't be acceptable, damn your a hostile, ignorant person you need to relax and actually read and understand what I said before you make statements that make you sound like a fool.
I'm reporting you!
  #110  
Old 10-02-2012, 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
I do not agree with you. I have seen many people use disrespect to others and I am going to report them when it happens to me. People hear (badbird and some others) should learn how to talk to people nicely. Perhaps their time will be short lived.

Marriage is not right. Me, personally, I have no uproar. I am saying how a lot of closed minded people think. Me, personally, I do not think they should be called the same thing, because they are two totally different types of relationships. If they call both a marriage, I am not going to bitch and complain. It does not matter to me all that much, but I still have my opinion and will vote accordingly.

I also think they took off the requirement of having to ask to be in this board. A few people did not ask and are allowed it. Bond girl never asked and is posting for one
Well l have to agree that some members use disrepect to other
I only had it happen to yesterday

I feel here on this board that there is many opinions and when a person goes against something being said it causes a uproar and what happens is what we are seeing at the moment
Sometimes it is best to bypass a persons commnet if it offends you

On the right of reporting someone well in my case a couple of days ago a person was saying things that were not nice to say to a lady when the person has not done anything to deserve it

it was getting quite bad and l was lucky l have Erroneous to turn too because a certain perosn was hurting me to the exstent that l was a mess because of it

I know this is going off subject but sometimes you have to report to stop the harrassment plus the admin and mods can see if it is worth having that person spoken too or figure out why the person is not happy

it is a shame we have to get angry over things but sometimes all you want is for it to stop

Anyway l hope all of this stops because l really like having the chance to post here on political subjects
  #111  
Old 10-02-2012, 08:39 PM
Okay we are back on topic of gay marriage

Geez it always takes a woman to control all you men

Anyway there is a diffrence between married straight couples and gay couples

But l have to say that if one or the two are happy they should go for it and if it becomes law which one day it will

But l think Australia is way off on passing it through at the moment
  #112  
Old 10-02-2012, 10:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderStorm View Post
Just to throw my 2 cents in not that it especially matters, I don't have a real problem with gay marriage being legalized according to the government. In this case it isn't the governments concern and if it makes two people happy then it isn't any of my or the governments business. Now if the government tries to pass laws forcing religious institutions to accept gay marriage then that is a different story, but if gay marriage is legal in civil society no problem.
A marriage or union in the government's eyes is a legal merger. Two people (or companies if you will) join into one. Has everything to do with taxes and all kinds of rights. It is absolutely the government's concern.
  #113  
Old 10-02-2012, 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by electriclite View Post
Things do not change because there's some timer out there that dings and voila! You now have a right. Its work.
That is 100% not true. Every gay person has a turkey like pop up timer inserted in and on their body. Everyone knows that silly
  #114  
Old 10-02-2012, 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderStorm View Post
I never said the government would do that I was just saying when it wouldn't be acceptable, damn your a hostile, ignorant person you need to relax and actually read and understand what I said before you make statements that make you sound like a fool.
What's to understand? You proposed a preposterous, hypothetical argument that is never coming to fruition as a worst case scenario reason as to why you are opposed to gay marriage.

A lot of people seem to have a huge misunderstanding as to what marriage is with regard to how it is defined by religion and by government. Any church can freely discriminate against anyone it wants right now; legalizing gay marriage isn't going to change that.

So come up with a better argument as to why we shouldn't legalize gay marriage.
  #115  
Old 10-03-2012, 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badbird View Post
What's to understand? You proposed a preposterous, hypothetical argument that is never coming to fruition as a worst case scenario reason as to why you are opposed to gay marriage.

A lot of people seem to have a huge misunderstanding as to what marriage is with regard to how it is defined by religion and by government. Any church can freely discriminate against anyone it wants right now; legalizing gay marriage isn't going to change that.

So come up with a better argument as to why we shouldn't legalize gay marriage.
I am not opposed to gay marriage though.
  #116  
Old 10-03-2012, 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
A marriage or union in the government's eyes is a legal merger. Two people (or companies if you will) join into one. Has everything to do with taxes and all kinds of rights. It is absolutely the government's concern.
I mean it is not their concern who you marry.
  #117  
Old 10-03-2012, 06:51 PM
Are they letting anyone in the Politics forum now?

Goodbye, thought-provoking discourse...
  #118  
Old 10-03-2012, 08:04 PM
Well this discussion has been interesting and it has its ups and downs

but that is why it is good to see quite a few opinions on the subject

I would like to know if there is any members who are gay and have gotten married so they could explain what they feel

Alot of members who are married are married to a woman or have girlfreinds

What l see of women or men who are gay nad maaried seem happy and contented with what they have done

I do think that when married gay couples want to bring children into there union you have to becareful on what you teach them plus on what they see

You see it is alright to have a family in a gay marriage but when you have to go out into the public and the kids have to cop it at school about there homelife it can be difficult if not taught on the way to handle it plus the bullying that they might get too

Vong l think we are all adults here and l say we can have a good discussion where ever we are on the forum

it is also good to have more members in this area so it igives us a more wider veiw on thoughts and opinions
  #119  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:06 PM
I'm all for gay marriage. Gay people (or heterosexuals) getting married is affecting no one's lives but their own. Also, the argument that sexual attraction is a choice is not only wrong but useless anyway. Even if being gay was a choice, that wouldn't be grounds to be against it. It's still adults engaging in consensual sex.
  #120  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vong View Post
Are they letting anyone in the Politics forum now?

Goodbye, thought-provoking discourse...
Great contribution to the topic, obviously you are part of the problem.
 

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