#1  
Old 07-06-2012, 03:50 PM
Lance Armstrong

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i-...icle-1.1108307

Quote:

Report: Cyclists with ties to Lance Armstrong turned on Tour de France champion; USADA head warns against witness intimidation

Following a Dutch newspaper report purporting to name five American witnesses in the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency’s brewing knife fight with Lance Armstrong, the chief executive officer of the organization vowed Thursday to stand guard against the witness intimidation that has frequently arisen in cycling’s doping wars.

“It is important to remember that the truth would often be suppressed without witnesses who at great cost to themselves are willing to tell the truth under oath about what they saw and experienced, and any attempt to circumvent the proper procedures in order to bully or silence people who may or may not be witnesses cannot be tolerated,” said Travis Tygart.

USADA has yet to name the Armstrong witnesses, but the Dutch newspaper Telegraaf reported Thursday that five of them were former Armstrong teammates and associates Jonathan Vaughters, George Hincapie, Levi Leipheimer, David Zabriskie and Christian Vande Velde. The article said they had risked six-month bans in a “bizarre” deal to testify against Armstrong.

“No individual cases have been finalized,” Tygart said, “and any attempt to guess at whom potential witnesses might be only leads to inaccurate information being reported and subjects those named to unnecessary scrutiny, threats and intimidation.”

The newspaper’s report thrust the five men, already the subjects of fervent speculation, under renewed scrutiny Thursday at the Tour de France, where Vaughters is a prominent and widely admired team director. Armstrong wrote on Twitter that Tygart had a “vendetta” against him and said the USADA case against him was “plain ol’ selective prosecution.”

“Let me be clear, the riders in question are also victims of (USADA’s) unfair process and antics,” Armstrong added.

Vaughters, who directs the Garmin-Sharp team that Vande Velde and Zabriskie ride for, called the report “completely untrue.” Hincapie and Leipheimer, who ride for other teams, declined to comment, according to The Associated Press. None of the men has been known to have failed doping controls before.

Armstrong has vigorously denied USADA’s accusations that he used banned drugs and methods on the way to his record seven Tour de France titles. The USADA investigation resulted in accusations that Armstrong manipulated his blood with transfusions and drugs since as far back as 1996 and right up until 2010.

Armstrong’s attorneys have repeatedly criticized the agency for refusing to name the 10 people it claims witnessed Armstrong and his associates leading a long-running and complicated doping conspiracy. USADA also charged team doctors and a trainer. USADA is trying to invalidate Armstrong’s titles and has notified him it may seek a lifetime competition ban, which could hurt him even though he is retired from cycling, given his recent adventures in triathlon and interest in cycling team ownership.

Speculation about the witnesses has been rampant, particularly since the riders mentioned in the Telegraaf’s report notified Olympic authorities that they should not be considered for inclusion on the 2012 U.S. Olympic Team. “I’m just here to ride the Tour de France, and so far I’m still in the hunt for the general classification,” said Leipheimer, according to The AP. Hincapie also declined to comment, according to The AP, but said he hadn’t talked to Armstrong recently.

“I’m sad he is going through this,” Hincapie said of Armstrong. “He’s done so many things for the sport. His accomplishments are incredible.”

Armstrong’s attorneys have challenged USADA’s right to punish Armstrong even as they’ve engaged in the arbitration-based process that kicks in when athletes fight USADA’s doping accusations. A legal battle would almost certainly bring to light sordid new allegations against Armstrong, who has been besieged with such accusations in recent years.

Witness intimidation and reputational smear-jobs have long been part of cycling’s endless battles with performance-enhancing drugs and methods. Some of the litigation that has sprung up around Armstrong has been at least as ugly as what broke out in baseball after the release of the Mitchell Report. Armstrong has labeled his accusers liars, drunks and worse, but still they have multiplied.

Earlier this year, the federal government suspended a grand jury probe of Armstrong’s teams without bringing any charges. USADA officials worked closely with federal investigators on the early part of that probe, sitting in on several interviews that Food and Drug Administration criminal investigator Jeff Novitzky conducted with riders in 2010.

Armstrong and his former team director, Johan Bruyneel, are accused by USADA of running a sophisticated doping program on the U.S. Postal Service cycling team and its successors. Bruyneel, a prominent figure in cycling, is sitting out this year’s Tour de France, but he is commenting on the race in a column for De Telegraaf, the paper that published Thursday’s report.

Among those who have come out with public accusations against Armstrong are Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton, two men who were once his devoted lieutenants during some of his victorious rides but later failed anti-doping tests and were ousted from the sport.
This is just embarrassing. Embarrassing for a joke of a sport. They did not catch him during the races and now years later they are basically blackmailing others to turn against him. It is too late. You did not catch him. Let it go. No one cares if he cheated. As far as I am concerned, they all cheat in one form or another. Almost every year, you hear about top people cheating and getting thrown out.

This just in…. George Washington did not chop down a cherry tree. WTFC
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  #2  
Old 07-11-2012, 02:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
No one cares if he cheated.
That's kind of how I feel. Maybe I don't know much about racing. Maybe there is a huge following I'm unaware of. But honestly, I don't understand why they're trying so hard to nail this guy.

I get the Bonds witch hunt. He broke one of the most sacred records in all of sports, so regardless of when it came out, people would want to know if he cheated. I know 7 Tour De France victories is impressive, but is it really worth all of this 7 years after his last win?
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  #3  
Old 08-07-2012, 09:53 AM
Anytime someone has money/jobs on the line when their physique or their athletic performance you can pretty much guarantee they are on, or have been on, some kind of performance enhancing drug. To think otherwise is very ignorant.

In other words, it's not that nobody cared that HE cheated. Nobody cares because EVERYONE cheats.
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  #4  
Old 08-25-2012, 10:51 AM
I believe he did cheat, but.......

1. Who cares? They all cheat in that stupid sport.
2. Who did he really piss off that they have been chasing him for all these years? I bet he slept with someone's wife
3. So let me get this straight. He won for 7 years in a row and they did not catch him during that time after all those tests and they are still going after him? Fuck them. Your time has run out to prove anything to me. There should be a term of limits in which to catch someone. He beat your system fair and square.
4. What is the deal with taking away wins and titles, ect in sports. It is meaningless. Lance is still the guy who won 7 times in a row.

5. Most importantly FUCK THE FRENCH. WE WON AGAIN. YOU LOST AGAIN AND I HATE YOU ALL!
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  #5  
Old 08-26-2012, 12:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
4. What is the deal with taking away wins and titles, ect in sports. It is meaningless. Lance is still the guy who won 7 times in a row.
Agree with the first 3 points, but this one is always a tricky area. When Reggie Bush was asked to return his Heisman, Vince Young was asked if he would accept it (he was 2nd to Bush that year) and he said "no." I think most athletes would feel the same way Vince did.

I remember when Landis was stripped of his Tour victory, they awarded it to the 2nd place finisher. The guy basically said it was pointless because the beauty of winning the Tour is being able to ride the last stage sipping champagne... basically a victory lap. He didn't care to be recognized as the winner.

Personally, I feel if there is actual hardware, it makes sense to remove it. The thing that alway confused me was like vacating wins and seasons. Like, the Fab 5 "vacating" the seasons in which they made the Final Four, yet we all remember those games. It'll be the same with Lance. Whatever trophy he has should be taken from him, but at the end of the day, he won the 7 races and I don't think any of the runners-up would care to be recognized as champion, knowing they were beaten.
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  #6  
Old 08-26-2012, 01:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Kenshin View Post
That's kind of how I feel. Maybe I don't know much about racing. Maybe there is a huge following I'm unaware of. But honestly, I don't understand why they're trying so hard to nail this guy.

I get the Bonds witch hunt. He broke one of the most sacred records in all of sports, so regardless of when it came out, people would want to know if he cheated. I know 7 Tour De France victories is impressive, but is it really worth all of this 7 years after his last win?
I hate this double standard! Oh nobody cares if golden boy Lance Armstrong cheats, but if Barry Bonds did he deserves to be the victim of a witch hunt?! That makes no sense...just because he was "a bad guy" to the media and fans, he gets the shit treatment and Lance doesn't.

Truth is I don't care if any of these guys cheat in either sport! Cycling is a joke and the dirtiest sport on the planet, who was the last legit Tour winner? Anybody know???? lol.

And to single out people like Bonds and Clemens at a time when the majority of baseball was dirty is just flat out wrong. I'm just sick of it.
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  #7  
Old 08-26-2012, 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck Bond View Post
And to single out people like Bonds and Clemens at a time when the majority of baseball was dirty is just flat out wrong. I'm just sick of it.
2 big differences:

First is they have hallowed records that people actually care about. Particularly Bonds, as any sports fan worth his salt knows the number 755. Bonds broke it, but he did it illegitimately.

The other, bigger difference is that the people Bonds and Clemens passed most likely weren't cheating. There is no evidence of Hank Aaron ever using steroids. The issue with Bonds isn't that he used steroids to compete against other people who were on steroids (which is the case with Lance). The problem is, he's breaking the records of athletes who did it properly. That's not fair to them. Notice, the record people care about is the all-time record with Bonds, not the single-season record in which he passed Mark McGwire. That's because McGwire cheated also. Aaron, to the best of our knowledge, didn't.
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  #8  
Old 08-27-2012, 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck Bond View Post
I hate this double standard! Oh nobody cares if golden boy Lance Armstrong cheats, but if Barry Bonds did he deserves to be the victim of a witch hunt?! That makes no sense...just because he was "a bad guy" to the media and fans, he gets the shit treatment and Lance doesn't.

Truth is I don't care if any of these guys cheat in either sport! Cycling is a joke and the dirtiest sport on the planet, who was the last legit Tour winner? Anybody know???? lol.

And to single out people like Bonds and Clemens at a time when the majority of baseball was dirty is just flat out wrong. I'm just sick of it.
I agree with most of what you said. Bonds and Clemens were caught cheating while they were playing still. They were not singled out alone. They were others. Cycling is a joke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Kenshin View Post
2 big differences:

First is they have hallowed records that people actually care about. Particularly Bonds, as any sports fan worth his salt knows the number 755. Bonds broke it, but he did it illegitimately.

The other, bigger difference is that the people Bonds and Clemens passed most likely weren't cheating. There is no evidence of Hank Aaron ever using steroids. The issue with Bonds isn't that he used steroids to compete against other people who were on steroids (which is the case with Lance). The problem is, he's breaking the records of athletes who did it properly. That's not fair to them. Notice, the record people care about is the all-time record with Bonds, not the single-season record in which he passed Mark McGwire. That's because McGwire cheated also. Aaron, to the best of our knowledge, didn't.
The records should not make a difference. Even cheaters like Melky should be held to the same standard as Bonds.
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  #9  
Old 08-28-2012, 01:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
The records should not make a difference. Even cheaters like Melky should be held to the same standard as Bonds.
A main point I was trying to make was in justifying going after these athletes after they retired. It's worth it for Bonds because of the records. Look at Brady Anderson, who suspiciously hit 52 home runs one season (he had 72 in his previous 8 seasons combined). Does any one care now if he used steroids? I certainly don't, and I'm sure most sports fans don't, either. But Bonds is different. Even if he was caught 10 years later, it would matter because of the records. I agree that every athlete, including a guy like Melky, should be held to the same standard while playing. But once they retire, I feel most of us don't care unless something historic was on the line.

Also, Bonds' cheating really only comes up regarding records, again, because he passed guys who were clean. Notice, no one ever suggested taking away his MVPs or Silver Slugger awards. Those can be justified by an average fan the same way Lance's cheating is: it's a corrupt sport, everyone did it, and he (Bonds or Lance) was just better than his contemporaries. However, Bonds passing clean athletes makes it more of an issue.

Why does this matter for Bonds and not for Lance in my opinion? Because Lance's record isn't relevant to the average sports fan. Go to a sports bar and ask who won the most Tour de Frances other than Lance. I don't think any one really knows, so his impact on clean athletes (assuming the older guys were clean... I really don't know anything about cycling) isn't as significant as Bonds passing Aaron.
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  #10  
Old 08-28-2012, 01:11 AM
Ask the average sports fan if they have more reverence for Barry Bonds or Ken Griffey Jr. and outside of San Francisco you'll get the same answer every time. The asterisk does exist in sports.
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  #11  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brando @$$ Fat View Post
Ask the average sports fan if they have more reverence for Barry Bonds or Ken Griffey Jr. and outside of San Francisco you'll get the same answer every time. The asterisk does exist in sports.
Actually Ken Griffey Jr is still cool in my book. Bonds is just an asshole, so yea fuck him.
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  #12  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
I believe he did cheat, but.......

1. Who cares? They all cheat in that stupid sport.
Canada called .... they want Ben Johnson's gold medal back from Carl Lewis.

Because no ones cheat in the 100m sprint anyway
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  #13  
Old 08-28-2012, 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieMaster View Post
Actually Ken Griffey Jr is still cool in my book. Bonds is just an asshole, so yea fuck him.
That was the idea. Griffey didn't use anything.
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  #14  
Old 08-28-2012, 01:35 PM
Still waiting on that chinese 15 yo results ..... and if not tested positive , would make her the fastest swimmer in the world ... even beating Phelps ! Yes ... female beat male for once !
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  #15  
Old 08-28-2012, 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brando @$$ Fat View Post
That was the idea. Griffey didn't use anything.
I wouldnt mind if he did.
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  #16  
Old 09-15-2012, 12:51 PM
My opinion of Lance is that he cheated.
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  #17  
Old 10-11-2012, 12:06 PM
.

Last edited by SS-Block; 03-31-2014 at 06:22 PM..
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