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View Poll Results: His punishment should be..
Put him in jail and death row 4 23.53%
Put him in jail and life in prison punishment 4 23.53%
Put him in a mental hospital until he's eighteen years old 5 29.41%
Juvenile detention center until eighteen years of age 2 11.76%
Juvenile/prison with parole 2 11.76%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 07-07-2012, 03:03 PM
What punishment should this nine year old kid get?

The kid is beyond a genius, in fact, his IQ is 192, already taking college level classes at the age of when someone like him are studying typical third grader subject, knows how to cook food and clean dishes, and could teach anyone his age about any subject. Despite all of this, one night, this kid finds this gun that was down in the basement that was even unaware to his parents, goes upstairs while they were sleeping on a Saturday early morning at 2:06 AM, pulls the trigger to his mother forehead and then afterwards to his father nose. The aftermath that occurs hours after this kid shot his parents what punishment should a juvenile like himself get after committing a horriflying crime?

Last edited by John@$$; 07-08-2012 at 02:37 PM..
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  #2  
Old 07-07-2012, 03:28 PM
Serves the parents right for having a gun in the house and not keeping it in a locked safe.

Kids probably gonna need psychological help though.
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  #3  
Old 07-07-2012, 03:39 PM
I voted "Put him in jail and death row."

Totally serious too. Kid's obviously smart enough to know exactly what he was doing.... So yeah, fuck him.
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  #4  
Old 07-07-2012, 03:52 PM
I believe 100% in the wisdom of the Simmons decision and I think any serious psychologist will tell you that no matter what sort of IQ score a child gets, his brain really isn't formed and totally appreciative of both consequences and morality at nine.
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  #5  
Old 07-07-2012, 03:53 PM
Is this a hypothetical or something that actually happened?

Regardless, the kid is nine years old. I don't care if he's the smartest person on the planet, the concept of putting him on death row is absolutely fucking asinine. The prefrontal cortex is far from being fully developed at this age, so to give such harsh punishments would be ridiculous.

Last edited by Bourne101; 07-07-2012 at 04:01 PM..
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  #6  
Old 07-07-2012, 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne101 View Post
Is this a hypothetical or something that actually happened?
There have been instances where juveniles under the age of twelve have committed crimes such as what was in my hypothetical post such as this story I'm about to post.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...cee/54259732/1
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  #7  
Old 07-07-2012, 08:39 PM

An 11 year old fucking knows not to killed people. If you don't grasp the concept of life and death at 11 then there is something rotten in Denmark.
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  #8  
Old 07-07-2012, 10:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverload View Post
An 11 year old fucking knows not to killed people. If you don't grasp the concept of life and death at 11 then there is something rotten in Denmark.
That is an overly simplistic way of looking at it. Most children at that age know that it's probably not a good idea to shoot someone in the head, but their concept of life and death at this age is very simplistic. Complex comprehension of things like guilt, remorse, and the severity of consequences can take up to the age of 20 to fully develop. Add to that environmental factors and there is potential for kids that age to do a lot of dumb shit. I'm not saying there shouldn't be consequences, but it's better to try and get to the root of the problem then to simply lock them up for life or put them on death row. I don't support the death penalty in general, but especially not in cases where you're dealing with people under the age of 18.
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  #9  
Old 07-07-2012, 11:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaw2929 View Post
I voted "Put him in jail and death row."

Totally serious too. Kid's obviously smart enough to know exactly what he was doing.... So yeah, fuck him.
This...
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  #10  
Old 07-07-2012, 11:29 PM
Gotta say, I'm totally with Bourne on this. But even if he was 30 or 40 or 50, I don't support the death penalty at any age. Life in prison without the possibility of parole, sure. But not the death penalty.
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  #11  
Old 07-07-2012, 11:42 PM
I think there is an analytical element to this, obviously. In the Simmons decision the Supreme Court said more or less that it was not the practice of civilized nations to kill individuals under 18. The deeper reason for this is well explained by Bourne. But just prima facie, how can so many of you advocate killing a child of nine under any circumstances outside of extremely immediate self defense?

Last edited by Gordon; 07-07-2012 at 11:48 PM..
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  #12  
Old 07-07-2012, 11:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon View Post
It is amazing to me that so many people here would advocate killing a child.
It's amazing a child as super intelligent as that one, would kill his parents.
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  #13  
Old 07-07-2012, 11:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaw2929 View Post
It's amazing a child as super intelligent as that one, would kill his parents.
Well imaginary kids do a lot of things. But still, raw IQ scores are a very indirect way of measuring functional capabilities and the types of faculties involved in a decision like this are not really necessary the ones involved in raw intelligence; e.g. his nine year old self fails to have a developed an understanding of the matters involved in this decision. Additionally there could be other imaginary factors going on like imaginary abuse or imaginary molestation.

Last edited by Gordon; 07-07-2012 at 11:57 PM..
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  #14  
Old 07-08-2012, 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon View Post
I think there is an analytical element to this, obviously. In the Simmons decision the Supreme Court said more or less that it was not the practice of civilized nations to kill individuals under 18. The deeper reason for this is well explained by Bourne. But just prima facie, how can so many of you advocate killing a child of nine under immediate self defense?


.
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  #15  
Old 07-08-2012, 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovemovies View Post
Gotta say, I'm totally with Bourne on this. But even if he was 30 or 40 or 50, I don't support the death penalty at any age. Life in prison without the possibility of parole, sure. But not the death penalty.
Im on the fence about putting a 9 year old to death,thats a tad young. But in the case of kid in the usa today link above, i dont know,i mean lil asshole killed essentially 2 people. So id have to take the stance that jaw2929 took and say fuck him. Not death penalty,but lock him away longer than that story mentioned.

As far as the death penalty goes for me, all for it,someone takes a life or several llives,well guess what,you just forfeited your right to be alive. Its cheaper to execute a murderer(s) than keep them in prison for the rest of their lives on the tax payers dime.

I know it may sound fucked up,but the world is fucked up and could always use one less man...in this case a piece of shit murderer
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  #16  
Old 07-08-2012, 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne101 View Post
That is an overly simplistic way of looking at it. Most children at that age know that it's probably not a good idea to shoot someone in the head, but their concept of life and death at this age is very simplistic. Complex comprehension of things like guilt, remorse, and the severity of consequences can take up to the age of 20 to fully develop. Add to that environmental factors and there is potential for kids that age to do a lot of dumb shit. I'm not saying there shouldn't be consequences, but it's better to try and get to the root of the problem then to simply lock them up for life or put them on death row. I don't support the death penalty in general, but especially not in cases where you're dealing with people under the age of 18.
It's like some people lost all memory of ever being 11. You never felt guilt or remorse at that age? 11 is pretty fucking old to not have that kind of comprehension.

I know the frontal lobe isn't fully developed at that age, but that only effects certain inhibitions. Children certainly know guilt and remorse, and there is no excuse for a child to not know an extreme right from wrong such as DON'T MURDER PEOPLE.

If a child tortures animals, you can't say "it's okay, their frontal lobe hasn't fully developed, children don't know better." That's bullshit. Not only do very young children know not to torture animals, most are appalled by the very idea of it. Those that do torture animals grow up to be pretty fucked up adults. Same for children that murder people.
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  #17  
Old 07-08-2012, 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBateman View Post
Its cheaper to execute a murderer(s) than keep them in prison for the rest of their lives on the tax payers dime.
Except that's not true at all. In most states, it costs more than twice as much to execute someone than it does to house them in maximum-security prison for 50 years. In all states it costs a minimum of hundreds of thousands of dollars more.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

Quote:
The only way to make the death penalty a "better buy" than imprisonment is to weaken due process and curtail appellate review, which are the defendants' (and society's) only protections against the grossest miscarriages of justice. The savings in dollars would be at the cost of innocent lives: In nearly half of the death-penalty cases given review under federal habeas corpus, the conviction is overturned.
As for this hypothetical kid, yeah, intelligence is not the same thing as maturity, wisdom, or experience. No matter how smart a kid is, they're still a kid. My elementary school was full of nothing but kids with genius-level IQs and it wasn't uncommon to have a 9-year-old who was a chess prodigy doing Lambda calculus by day and scared of the boogeyman in his closet at night. They can't be treated like adults because they aren't adults. There's not enough information to suggest whether he be put in juvie or a mental institution or what because he'd need to see a psychiatrist, or several of them, to diagnose his mental state.

By the way, those advocating killing a child are putting their country in the elite club of Iran, Nigeria, Saudia Arabia, and Sudan as the only states in the world that execute child offenders. More progressive nations to recently abolish the practice include Yemen, Pakistan, and the Democratic Republic of The Congo.

Last edited by QUENTIN; 07-08-2012 at 04:09 PM..
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  #18  
Old 07-08-2012, 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverload View Post
It's like some people lost all memory of ever being 11. You never felt guilt or remorse at that age? 11 is pretty fucking old to not have that kind of comprehension.
Where did I say that I never felt guilt or remorse or that one doesn't at that age? I said that full comprehension of those feelings is not fully developed at that age and that if you combine that with certain environmental factors it can lead to children committing crimes.

This isn't as black and white as you're making it out to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverload View Post
I know the frontal lobe isn't fully developed at that age, but that only effects certain inhibitions. Children certainly know guilt and remorse, and there is no excuse for a child to not know an extreme right from wrong such as DON'T MURDER PEOPLE.
What do you mean no excuse? How about children with reactive attachment disorder? Many of them are passed along from one foster home to the next after being dumped by their parents in early childhood (and in many cases they are abused). We're just supposed to give up on these kids and call it quits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverload View Post
If a child tortures animals, you can't say "it's okay, their frontal lobe hasn't fully developed, children don't know better." That's bullshit.
This is being far too simplistic. No one is saying that children don't know better. The frontal lobe not being developed is not an excuse for children committing horrible crimes, but rather it suggests that there is potential to help them with proper interventions. At age 11 there is still around 9 years (or even more in some cases) for development. Plenty of time to try and help the child.

But I guess lockin' 'em up for life or shooting some sodium pentothal in their veins will just make things easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverload View Post
Not only do very young children know not to torture animals, most are appalled by the very idea of it. Those that do torture animals grow up to be pretty fucked up adults. Same for children that murder people.
I'm not disagreeing with this. But in many of the cases where children who tortured animals and went on to kill people, it was either ignored initially or they were simply sent to juvenile to waste away for a few years before being released. There needs to be more focus on interventions during the years of frontal lobe development so that some of these children can have a chance.

Last edited by Bourne101; 07-08-2012 at 04:35 PM..
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  #19  
Old 07-08-2012, 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne101 View Post
Where did I say that I never felt guilt or remorse or that one doesn't at that age? I said that full comprehension of those feelings is not fully developed at that age and that if you combine that with certain environmental factors it can lead to children committing crimes.
Indeed. What's weird about this thread is that this psychological aspects of the nature of brain development is really not up for dispute at all. It's not like this is some paradigmatic squabble where all opinions are equal -- kids brains are simply underdeveloped in this area, and that is hard fact. Every scientist involved in this area will tell you this.
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  #20  
Old 07-08-2012, 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaw2929 View Post
I voted "Put him in jail and death row."

Totally serious too. Kid's obviously smart enough to know exactly what he was doing.... So yeah, fuck him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by God of War View Post
This...
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBateman View Post
I know it may sound fucked up,but the world is fucked up and could always use one less man...in this case a piece of shit murderer














Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverload View Post
An 11 year old fucking knows not to killed people.
What if the 11 year old thinks he's really right about his reasons for killing another person?
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  #21  
Old 07-08-2012, 04:58 PM
BREAKING NEWS:

They just released pictures of the 9 year old kids' parents/victims!

Spoiler:



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  #22  
Old 07-08-2012, 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QUENTIN View Post
Except that's not true at all. In most states, it costs more than twice as much to execute someone than it does to house them in maximum-security prison for 50 years. In all states it costs a minimum of hundreds of thousands of dollars more.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty


.

Touche sir, i probably should of put some backbone into that statement with research. I learned something new today.

I still stand by my other statement though,if someone takes an innocent life or lives,sorry but you blew your chance at getting older. Sorry thats just how i've always felt.
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  #23  
Old 07-08-2012, 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBateman View Post
I still stand by my other statement though,if someone takes an innocent life or lives,sorry but you blew your chance at getting older. Sorry thats just how i've always felt.
And thus lowering yourself to a killer's level.

That's not justice, it's bloodlust.
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  #24  
Old 07-08-2012, 06:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postmaster General View Post
What if the 11 year old thinks he's really right about his reasons for killing another person?
Hm. I'm going to elaborate and modify my initial voting a little bit. If this 9 or 11 year old kid was getting raped by his parents, abused or any variation of either one.... And his parents were monsters/animals anyway.... Well then no death penalty for the kid. Psychiatric evaluation/asylum or possibly pleading temporary insanity may be more the route to go. Because if his parents were raping, abusive assholes - then I can understand why he'd kill them.
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  #25  
Old 07-08-2012, 07:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postmaster General View Post
BREAKING NEWS:

They just released pictures of the 9 year old kids' parents/victims!

Spoiler:



That's really funny.


I voted to put the kid in the mental hospital until he is 18.
I think that is the best course of action for him. He might be a genius, but he could be rainman too. Isn't this how the latest Halloween movie went? However, they should keep tabs on him long after he gets out. Next issue like this and we should never see him free again.
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  #26  
Old 07-08-2012, 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovemovies View Post
And thus lowering yourself to a killer's level.

That's not justice, it's bloodlust.
PBateman examined why the death penalty is popular with the public.
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  #27  
Old 07-08-2012, 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovemovies View Post
And thus lowering yourself to a killer's level.

That's not justice, it's bloodlust.
How exactly is locking someone away for their entire life any more "just"? If anything it's cowardice.
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  #28  
Old 07-08-2012, 10:14 PM
Umm this is a hard one to answer

I had two opinions on this but picked life in prison..

But l am tossing between the two

if you put him in prison he will learn other diffrent ways to do bad things to other people and we might pay for it in the end

i also felt like picking the mental hospitol where he would get proper help for waht he had done

but to kill your parents in other ways why would you do this

Also having a gun in the house where a child can get at it was very foolish

I also want to state that maybe this kid could do alot of adult things but really the child is till a child
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  #29  
Old 07-08-2012, 10:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jolanar View Post
How exactly is locking someone away for their entire life any more "just"? If anything it's cowardice.
Obviously, it would only be for the most severe of crimes. And there are some people who just are too damaged to ever be able to be rehabilitated. Those are the people who would get life without parole.
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  #30  
Old 07-08-2012, 10:42 PM
Well l know there was a crime in England where these two children who were around nine or ten yrs old who killed a child who was around 4 yrs old

Thses two children were sent to prison for life and got paroled only recently they would be in there 30s now

So like l said we can send a child to prrison and they might come out worse people when they come out and l can tell you they do let killers out of prison

I just feel as though this boy needs mental help not jail times to see why he decided to kill mum and dad

There is always a reason on why killers kill
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  #31  
Old 07-09-2012, 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne101 View Post
That is an overly simplistic way of looking at it. Most children at that age know that it's probably not a good idea to shoot someone in the head, but their concept of life and death at this age is very simplistic. Complex comprehension of things like guilt, remorse, and the severity of consequences can take up to the age of 20 to fully develop. Add to that environmental factors and there is potential for kids that age to do a lot of dumb shit. I'm not saying there shouldn't be consequences, but it's better to try and get to the root of the problem then to simply lock them up for life or put them on death row. I don't support the death penalty in general, but especially not in cases where you're dealing with people under the age of 18.
The only post that makes any actual sense in this whole thread
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  #32  
Old 07-09-2012, 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovemovies View Post
And thus lowering yourself to a killer's level.

That's not justice, it's bloodlust.
Haha,what? I'm not lowering myself to anything. How is it bloodlust exactly? Please explain.

Get a grip dude,good god. There's nothing wrong with the death penalty when it comes to piece of shit murderers or serial killers of innocent people.

What would you rather do? Study their psyche? Find out why they did it? Try and save them?
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  #33  
Old 07-09-2012, 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by John@$$ View Post
PBateman examined why the death penalty is popular with the public.
I did?
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  #34  
Old 07-09-2012, 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBateman View Post
What would you rather do? Study their psyche? Find out why they did it? Try and save them?
When you take a life for any reason other than self defense you ARE lowering yourself to the killer's level and it IS bloodlust. You are free to disagree with me, but that is how I feel. It is barbaric and death penalty needs to be abolished.

As to your last questions: if it's possible to save them and change them, then yes. But I know some are just damaged goods and are beyond help. For those people you lock them away. Life without parole.
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  #35  
Old 07-10-2012, 02:47 AM
Ideas for future MISC. threads:

If time travel existed, do you think murders should be killed before they are born?

If we could cure every illness known to man, by having every working person in the country pay $1, should we pass laws to ensure they pay?

If 2 men were stranded in space, would it be natural for them to copulate given the proper circumstances and should NASA recognize their union?
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  #36  
Old 07-10-2012, 02:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postmaster General View Post
Ideas for future MISC. threads:

If time travel existed, do you think murders should be killed before they are born?
If you have ever watched the Twilight Zone show you'll know that that is probably not a very good idea.

Or was that the Outer Limits? Always get those two mixed up.
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  #37  
Old 07-10-2012, 03:03 AM
It was an episode of All In The Family.
Spoiler:
Mike and Gloria thwarted Edith's rapist by throwing boiling water on his father who was serving in Korea and romancing a local girl. The father was also a cross dresser trying to get discharged. I remember catching it back in the days when I'd trip on acid and stay up watching Nick at Nite.

Last edited by The Postmaster General; 07-10-2012 at 03:05 AM.. Reason: added spoiler tag
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  #38  
Old 07-10-2012, 08:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postmaster General View Post
BREAKING NEWS:

They just released pictures of the 9 year old kids' parents/victims!

Spoiler:



LOL, this made me howl.

As for the poll, I went with putting him in a mental hospital until he's 18. At his age, there's still a chance to find out what's going on up there and get him help. Bourne101 summed it up pretty perfectly.
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  #39  
Old 07-14-2012, 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBateman View Post
I did?



You gave a response that the typical average person would normally make when they try to expland why they defend the death penalty.

Last edited by John@$$; 07-14-2012 at 05:55 PM..
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