#361  
Old 07-21-2012, 02:38 AM
Well, Nolan made his first slip up.

I feel that this movie suffers from extreme hyperbole. We have a gunman calling himself The Joker killing people at TDKR showing, and deranged fans sending death threats to critics who gave the movie a bad rating.

I walked into this movie with a group of people already calling this the greatest movie ever, and they all walked out claiming their minds were blown by the greatness of this movie.

I personally felt like it was a mess. Catwoman was a throw away character. Alfred ran away for lame reasons for most of the film. The final fight was weak. Certain revelations were just rehashed from Batman Begins. Bane went down way too easy. The editing was wonky at times (and I'm not talking about action scenes). Plus, Batman never really did much. In fact John Blake does most everything for him. This felt like a John Blake movie featuring Bruce Wayne with an appearance by Batman.

To me, this is Indiana Jones and The Kingdom of the Crystal skull all over again. It's not horrible, but it certainly doesn't come close to its predecessors.

By far the worst Nolan Film.

5/10
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  #362  
Old 07-21-2012, 02:40 AM
Saw it at a 10am showing, not busy at all, maybe ~20% full, however it was playing on I-don't-know-how-many screens. I actually thought I'd driven to the wrong theater because I couldn't find the 10am showing on the marque for some time.

I really enjoyed this one especially, as many are saying here, as a conclusion to this Batman series. The final moments of the film were probably my favorite of the whole series. From the time...

Spoiler:
...the kids see Batman rising about the buildings, carrying out the nuclear device, through Bruce finding happiness and a special someone, the promise that someone will take the mantle (Nightwing?) and the cut to black.


I thought there were some things that were un-Batmanish happening, especially in those scenes, but those persist throughout the trilogy. Nolan made the closest-to-the-comic version Batman yet, but it still a film world. Scratch what I said, Batman Year One is one that nails it, but that's not going to fly with movie audiences.

Unless I missed or am forgetting something after reading through pages of threads here, I guess I'm alone in thinking Catwoman was probably the best part of the film. Well, not as in the trilogy, but as in the standalone film. She seemed to be a lot of what Batman was in the first two movies. Or maybe I'm a sucker for lipstick and heels. Hm. I'll have to stew on that.

I get what people are saying about the comparisons to Avengers being off the mark, but I think dismissing those comparisons is also off the mark. Yeah, the tones are different. If The Avengers is a comic book movie, Nolan's Batman movies are graphic novels. If The Avengers is theme night at the dance club, Nolan's Batman is a regular night... I shoulda just stopped at the comic book metaphor. I could edit that out, but there would be some kind of something lost in this mind to keyboard to internet translation thing I have going on here.

So about comparisons to The Avengers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Kenshin View Post
Somewhat of a side rant:

The movie is going to be compared to Avengers since they came out the same year and will probably be 2 of the 5 highest grossing movies of all-time. But it's really stupid to compare these Batman movies to other superhero movies. As people have said before on this very thread, they're just so... DIFFERENT.

Nolan's Batman trilogy is to superhero movies what Raging Bull is to sports movies. Yes, Raging Bull is a "boxing" movie, but the sport itself isn't all that important. It's more of a character study. Can you really compare Raging Bull to, say, Hoosiers for sports movie supremacy? There are people who love both (myself included) but they're just so different in tone and concept.

I think Nolan's Batman is the same. I'm not saying it's too good to be compared to other superhero movies, just that it's too different. In fact, if it wasn't a character as iconic as Batman, it probably wouldn't even be considered a superhero movie, just a crime drama. I think if Raging Bull wasn't based on the life of a historic boxer, we might not even consider it a real sports movie. Terry Malloy was a boxer, but On the Waterfront isn't considered a sports movie?
Well yeah, they are different in that way, but they are also a lot alike when you have...

Spoiler:
...a billionaire playboy superhero giving his life to save a city by using his high tech gadgetry to fly away with a device that will destroy everything.


There were other similarities, but I don't care. I don't care that those are being pointed out. This was a kick-ass movie. Nitpicking movies can be a lot of fun and I can't wait for The Screening Room's script of this one because they are going to make fun of what so many of us don't care about or care and apologize about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jig Saw 123 View Post
Spoiler:

6. How did Bruce get back to Gotham?
This has been brought up so much and I think it is so legit a question. Granted, and like I think I said, it didn't bother me but I did have a huge moment taken out of the movie because...

Spoiler:
the city is under siege. Bad guys are everywhere. The police are trapped and the ones who aren't are hiding in shadows like rats. And then, after being presumably somewhere in the Middle East, or at least not Gotham because, you know, Gotham doesn't look like a city in the Middle East, Bruce Wayne strolls up on a desolate road all like, "Hey, I'm Bruce Wayne and I'm back! Booyah!"


There was a missing scene. And the editing was weird there too because, watch it again, the scene before...

Spoiler:
Gordon and the other cops look off frame to the right. It cuts and you see the boy run up with the apple and thugs attack him. Then Catwoman walks in from screen right to save the day. In movie magic land, the way this scene is cut, we are to expect Gordon and the other cops are standing off screen left, but no, here comes Bruce Wayne. It's a different scene. What the hell were Gordon and the other cops look screen right at?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jig Saw 123 View Post
Another issue I had.

Spoiler:
Who's idea was it to send every Gotham City police officer to the sewers?
Spoiler:
It was Gordon's wasn't it? He was trying to stop Bane, right?


Quote:
Originally Posted by darkface View Post
My favorite part:
Spoiler:
My favorite part was when Batman tells Commissioner Gordon who he is. I forget the line, but when he described how he put his coat over the kid... the flashback, then Gordon says... Bruce Wayne--next we see the BAT hover away the bomb with the soundtrack pounding... it brought a grown man to tears
That scene, though the last moments had me as equally varklempt. I'm pretty easily moved to that emotion, probably because of some inner pain that I need to work out by wearing a mask and fighting bad guys, but yeah man, I was right there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by john_rambo View Post
Loved it. Perfect way to end it... not gonna go all in depth just give a few thoughts.

Spoiler:

Also really liked how a large portion of it was completely Batman free, and it showed what Gotham could turn into without him.

The intensity of the takeover of Gotham was some of the most thrilling and well excecuted Cinema I have seen in a long time. Especially loved the use of the National Anthem that was used in an earlier trailer.

Also loved how they made Catwoman the not quite hero, not quite villain that she is.
Agree on all accounts. Again, I really think Catwoman isn't getting the love she deserves. I think for all the moaning about Hathaway as the character, and my own concerns, she was the bright moment for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Kenshin View Post
Spoiler:
Regarding those 2 issues:

2. I agree it was weird that she slept with Bruce, but in the comics, Talia really loved Bruce and was always conflicted. Her dream in some cases was to marry Bruce and have him join the League of Shadows. I wish they conveyed it a bit clearer in this movie, because as is, it's just... confusing and unnecessary.
I didn't think it was weird or confusing at all. What I do think is confusing is...

Spoiler:
Why no one doesn't think that maybe she just wanted to bang Bruce Wayne. I mean, obviously she's a woman, but that doesn't mean she might not just want to get some from time to time. Come on man, that's gotta be some huge ego boosting sex triumph right there. Not only did he melt in her hands by giving up his company to her, but in her mouth. And come on, he's a hot dude. I don't get why this is so out there. These aren't asexual beings. We have good physical and psychological reasons for her to go at him. She could have dry humped his hand towel and it would of made sense. I can't think of a good example, but had the gender roles been reversed in this scenario, no one would be questioning this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rilocay View Post
Spoiler:
So Bane breaks Bat's back, we all knew that would happen. But then we see Bruce fall from the prison climb twice - and that fall looks real nasty. I know it's a plot device but c'mon, he would be screwed from that after his back just healed. A bit too far from me and my major gripe with the film.
See, my whole thing with all that was that I thought...

Spoiler:
You only had one shot to make it out. The rope was tied around the waist. Wouldn't that break your back? My take was that people tried to climb out and if they didn't, SNAP! So when Bruce didn't make it out the first time, I was like, "Okay so that's not what I thought it was." But then I'm also wrestling with the fact that he was recovering from this horrible injury. Sorry, but in the pit, it didn't look like they had very good physical therapy equipment, so the whole thing seemed too miraculous for me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by john_rambo View Post
Spoiler:
my guess is the way he got into Gotham is one of those that was left on the cutting room floor for whatever reason. I figured he just used some nifty gadget though... and really didn't care enough to let it bother me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottmushroom View Post
Spoiler:
I'm kind of surprised that this is such an issue with folks, the last two movies have shown that Bruce gets where Bruce wants to get. The man is a billionaire with endless connections. In this case it really isn't even important how he got back its that he did IMO
Yeah but I think the problem people are having, because it was my... Well, not problem, but like I said, one of those things that made me go hmmm is that...

Spoiler:
Bruce wasn't a billionaire at that point though. He lost all his gadgets at that point. He was pawned back to the stone age in those regards. It wasn't until he got back with Fox that he got all his magic mojo back. He got his mojo back in the pit, but still no magic mojo. And let's not forget that the city was blocked off, no one could leave or enter. There really was, like Rambo says, something that was missing there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jz68 View Post
Why does Batman
Spoiler:
talk in his raspy voice when he's trying to convince Selina to stick around and save Gotham? At that point, she's already aware of his real identity since she overheard Bane call him Mr Wayne.
I thought we had decided since the first movie that...

Spoiler:
His hood has some kind of voice changing thing. So whenever he wears the hood he sounds like Harvey Fierstein's gentile cousin.


So, I'm glad to see so many of the same points of questions arise that I had. In no way I'm I using any of that as a criticism of the movie. The one thing I think that stood out is how Nolan turned Batman into, and I really don't think I'm digging here, such a huge Christ figure over the course of three films. It seemed pretty blatant, even with the promise of...
Spoiler:
a second coming


One other thing I wanted to chime in on is that, as much as I think Caine is great, I could help thinking that at some point he had to be thinking...

Spoiler:
"Fucking hell, if Ledger got an Oscar for this franchise, I better step up my game."

Last edited by The Postmaster General; 07-21-2012 at 02:47 AM..
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  #363  
Old 07-21-2012, 02:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postmaster General View Post

I didn't think it was weird or confusing at all. What I do think is confusing is...

Spoiler:
Why no one doesn't think that maybe she just wanted to bang Bruce Wayne. I mean, obviously she's a woman, but that doesn't mean she might not just want to get some from time to time. Come on man, that's gotta be some huge ego boosting sex triumph right there. Not only did he melt in her hands by giving up his company to her, but in her mouth. And come on, he's a hot dude. I don't get why this is so out there. These aren't asexual beings. We have good physical and psychological reasons for her to go at him. She could have dry humped his hand towel and it would of made sense. I can't think of a good example, but had the gender roles been reversed in this scenario, no one would be questioning this.


Spoiler:
haha I hear you, but it felt odd because I wasn't sure if they were trying to explore the rather complicated relationship Talia has with Bruce in every other Batman medium (comics, the animated series, heck even the video games) or if it was just superfluous. If it wasn't Talia, I (and probably other Batman fanboys) wouldn't have an issue whatsoever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postmaster General View Post
I get what people are saying about the comparisons to Avengers being off the mark, but I think dismissing those comparisons is also off the mark. Yeah, the tones are different. If The Avengers is a comic book movie, Nolan's Batman movies are graphic novels. If The Avengers is theme night at the dance club, Nolan's Batman is a regular night... I shoulda just stopped at the comic book metaphor. I could edit that out, but there would be some kind of something lost in this mind to keyboard to internet translation thing I have going on here.

I don't want to dismiss the comparisons, but I just think it's difficult because they strive for very different things.

Like I said, it's like comparing Hoosiers to Raging Bull. Of course people do it (any "Greatest Sports Movies of All Time" list has both of them very high I'm sure) but I feel people want to, and will, compare these two movies more for the DC/Marvel rivalry than for any actual cinematic purposes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postmaster General View Post

Yeah but I think the problem people are having, because it was my... Well, not problem, but like I said, one of those things that made me go hmmm is that...

Spoiler:
Bruce wasn't a billionaire at that point though. He lost all his gadgets at that point. He was pawned back to the stone age in those regards. It wasn't until he got back with Fox that he got all his magic mojo back. He got his mojo back in the pit, but still no magic mojo. And let's not forget that the city was blocked off, no one could leave or enter. There really was, like Rambo says, something that was missing there.





Agree comlpetely.
Spoiler:
Given not just his circumstances at that time, but the circumstances of Gotham (it's not like he could've just called Fox to send a plane or anything) it definitely seems like something was missing. Not enough to detract from the movie, but yes, it's not as simple as "He's Batman!" Especially this version of Batman, who is definitely closer to a normal human than the Batman in the Justice League comics.

Last edited by Darth Kenshin; 07-21-2012 at 03:02 AM..
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  #364  
Old 07-21-2012, 03:30 AM
Darth, did you

Spoiler:
know Miranda was Talia before hand?



I thought of one other part that took me out of the movie, but this was totally Pee-Wee Herman's fault.

When the cop's hat flew off, I heard Pee-Wee's voice in my head, doing the same scream he does during that scene from this trailer that he did the voiceover for -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdb2w1Yu97E

I cracked up laughing because I heard it exactly the same. Just that one 2 second scene though, no where else.
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  #365  
Old 07-21-2012, 03:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postmaster General View Post

Yeah but I think the problem people are having, because it was my... Well, not problem, but like I said, one of those things that made me go hmmm is that...

Spoiler:
Bruce wasn't a billionaire at that point though. He lost all his gadgets at that point. He was pawned back to the stone age in those regards. It wasn't until he got back with Fox that he got all his magic mojo back. He got his mojo back in the pit, but still no magic mojo. And let's not forget that the city was blocked off, no one could leave or enter. There really was, like Rambo says, something that was missing there.

Spoiler:
Yeah but let's remember back in his origin story in Begins, that he traveled around the world for 7 years sans his fortune and learned to survive by his wits and connections. Connections which he may still have had.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postmaster General View Post
Darth, did you

Spoiler:
know Miranda was Talia before hand?

I sure as hell did. I thought that was the prevailing thought around here? Was I wrong?
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  #366  
Old 07-21-2012, 03:36 AM
Spoiler:
I figured that the reason Miranda/Talia slept with Bruce was to gain his trust and maybe even make it even more painful for him when he learns the truth by having him fall in love with her.
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  #367  
Old 07-21-2012, 03:57 AM
[QUOTE=electriclite;3578379]
Spoiler:
Yeah but let's remember back in his origin story in Begins, that he traveled around the world for 7 years sans his fortune and learned to survive by his wits and connections. Connections which he may still have had.


Spoiler:
Yeah, but again, it was just how casual the whole thing was. I didn't have a problem with it being unexplainable, just that it was like no big thing. "Hey, whuddup! I'm back!" was how it felt. Especially after spending so much screen time devoted to showing him being beaten down to nothing and so much spent showing how hard it was getting in and out of Gotham. They could have even thrown in two lines of dialogue just to acknowledge what was a pretty interesting feat.



Quote:
I sure as hell did. I thought that was the prevailing thought around here? Was I wrong?
Spoiler:
I know it was a rumor, but you'll notice I don't hang out it upcoming talk so I don't know what people were sure of and what they were thinking was maybe. When watching the movie I didn't think much of it because i hadn't been talking and speculating about it. My reason for asking is in wondering if it tainted the idea that Miranda, not Talia, was just genuinely enjoying Bruce's company.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovemovies View Post
Spoiler:
I figured that the reason Miranda/Talia slept with Bruce was to gain his trust and maybe even make it even more painful for him when he learns the truth by having him fall in love with her.
Spoiler:
It was an ego trip.
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  #368  
Old 07-21-2012, 04:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by electriclite View Post
I sure as hell did. I thought that was the prevailing thought around here? Was I wrong?
Spoiler:
I wasn't so sure because Marion Cotillard had actually gone on record that she was NOT playing Talia Al-Ghul. Obviously, she was flat out lying. And now I'll never trust a word that comes out of her mouth.
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  #369  
Old 07-21-2012, 04:34 AM
Hey,
I just want to see some opinions on the ending (ofcourse with spoiler alerts and such so the film isnt ruined for any1, although this site and its members is doing a great job at that!!)
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  #370  
Old 07-21-2012, 05:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkKnight81 View Post
Didn't like it. Not going to elaborate any further than that since it's taboo around here.
I absolutely agree.
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  #371  
Old 07-21-2012, 05:33 AM
I remember when I first saw TDK, I thought it was a decent 8/10. After a second viewing, it went to 9/10. Upon a third viewing (in the theater, I might add ) it went to a 10/10. Sometimes these things have to wear on you.

TDK had similar negative comments...

-Batman couldn't survive that fall... that's stupid.
-Harvey Dent couldn't survive with his face mangled like that, blasphemy!
-Where's the Narrow's and tain system from BB?
-How did Batman get from point A to point B so fast? bullshit.
-Too long, should have cut more out
-etc

Somehow everyone got past those problems just fine over time. Hopefully some of you schmoes that didn't like TDKR can change your perspective eventually. If not, no big deal. As long as I loved it I'm happy

Last edited by darkface; 07-21-2012 at 05:38 AM..
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  #372  
Old 07-21-2012, 06:04 AM
Yeah, but it's definitely not as great as The Dark Knight. In fact, as I said, I would say it's the weakest film of the trilogy. I still loved it, but I can understand many of the negative comments that are being said. It probably could have been tightened up a bit.

One thing about the movie that come to me while watching it that I haven't seen anybody say was

Spoiler:
I thought Bruce should have been more conflicted about coming back as Batman. I think he chooses to come back as Batman a little rushed. I wanted more inner conflict there.
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  #373  
Old 07-21-2012, 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PR0J3KT M View Post
Spoiler:
I agree. And c'mon. Really? A broken back would cause ischemia and that segment of the spinal cord would die. Yeah in the comics he was able to get better but in almost less than 3 mos?


Nitpicky or not, it kinda bothered me. But hopefully know one tears me up or anyone else up for having an opinion. Haha.
I think he ha a dislocated vertebrae. They popped it back in.

Plus.. he's the goddamn Batman.

Last edited by adamjohnson; 07-21-2012 at 09:15 AM..
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  #374  
Old 07-21-2012, 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovemovies View Post
Yeah, but it's definitely not as great as The Dark Knight. In fact, as I said, I would say it's the weakest film of the trilogy. I still loved it, but I can understand many of the negative comments that are being said. It probably could have been tightened up a bit.

One thing about the movie that come to me while watching it that I haven't seen anybody say was

Spoiler:
I thought Bruce should have been more conflicted about coming back as Batman. I think he chooses to come back as Batman a little rushed. I wanted more inner conflict there.
Hes been waiting for things to go bad again. I think Bruce probably just wants to die instead of continuing to mourn the l oss of Rachel and Batman. Alfred knows this. That's why he leaves.
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  #375  
Old 07-21-2012, 09:28 AM
I thought the ending was pretty well done but the more I think about it, as much as I loved it, I also have a dislike for it.
My overall thoughts was that this movie made for a fantastic terrorism drama movie but with Batman as a cameo. It didn't feel like a Batman movie, which I think in some respects is what Nolan wants, real world issues with Batman there to try to stop it. I can see why critics love this movie from a dramatic film point of view.
Me, still debating in my head but leaning to either 7/10 or 8/10. Certainly not the masterpiece everyone claims it to be, IN MY OPINION keep in mind.
If I had to choose to see TDKR or Avengers again in theatres, I'd choose Avengers. It has that repeat viewing that I felt TDKR's doesn't have as much.
As for the actors:
Bale - Much better this time around. I like that while he still has stupid batvoice, he didn't need to take a breather every 3 words so he got full sentences out. Worked better this time around. Overall good as Wayne and Batman.
JGL - Probably the best character in the movie. In fact it felt like HIS movie and seeing the ending makes it seem more likely that it was his movie. I like that Blake's character was a think on your own kind of guy. Gordon even saw it in him.
Oldman - Nothing different as Gordon but still just as good as TDK. He plays that role really well. Glad it wasn't all in the hospital.
Hathaway - I think she did well with what she had to work with. Sexy aside, her character and motivations felt genuine. I liked her.
Hardy - Bane was evil, pure and malevolent. His voice amplifier was actually a nice effect. I liked how his character worked, even though it wasn't like the comics in terms of the muscle enhancements. He played evil really well.
Cotillard - The moment I heard her voice I was reminded of Liam Neeson's accent, hers was similar to his. Rumours that she may be Talia didn't mean anything to me, once she spoke. I knew for a fact that this woman was Talia Al Ghul. Honestly not much to say about her.
Caine and Freeman - Much like their previous roles, nothing special. Underused in some respects and I have a few issues with how things went down. That aside, not much to say about them.

Overall, I do recommend the movie though I have PLENTY of gripes, overall I did enjoy it. I'll post my gripes next week when spoilers are less likely to happen. I do have a list though, it's fairly long.
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  #376  
Old 07-21-2012, 09:28 AM
If this is a current movie talk why use spoilers tags?

Anyways the movie was good, there were some things I didnīt like or understand (looked stupid to me) but it was a good movie with a nice ending. It was really chaotic and they really made a good job this time profiling the decadence of a city.

Christian Bale did a terrific job, his and Oldmanīs performance were the best of the three movies imho. Hardy,Hathaway and JGL were also great.
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  #377  
Old 07-21-2012, 09:33 AM
What do you guys think of the ending, specifically....

Spoiler:
Alfred seeing Bruce in Italy.
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  #378  
Old 07-21-2012, 09:42 AM
With the ending. I liked seeing Blake discover the cave and Alfred seeing Bruce and Selina in Italy. It was well done.
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  #379  
Old 07-21-2012, 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jig Saw 123 View Post
What do you guys think of the ending, specifically....

Spoiler:
Alfred seeing Bruce in Italy.
As I said, I like that Bruce found some real happiness. In this mythos, Batman isn't something that Bruce intends to be forever. But it traumatizes him, and any chance for a normal life is shattered when Rachel died. I never imagined Bruce as capable of leaving the Batman behind, but Nolan found a way to make it believable.

With that said, I still like my idea better. Alfred goes to the cafe, sees the same thing as the first time - a guy in a chair with his back turned. It looks like Bruce but we dont knwo for sure. He turns, and jut before we see his face, cut to black, the end.

That's a very Nolan ending. Similar to the one in Inception. Ambiguous.
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  #380  
Old 07-21-2012, 09:48 AM
Heh, just realized she never once touched a whip.
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  #381  
Old 07-21-2012, 09:50 AM
Victory has defeated you.

So this is basically the same plot as Rocky 3, right?
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  #382  
Old 07-21-2012, 09:51 AM
Spoiler:
I had a feeling they possibly would've have done the "Inception"-like ending, but that would've been the problem. It would be too much like Inception, so I figure that Nolan wanted true finality, so we got the shot of Bruce.
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  #383  
Old 07-21-2012, 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jig Saw 123 View Post
What do you guys think of the ending, specifically....

Spoiler:
Alfred seeing Bruce in Italy.
Spoiler:
I think it was a nice touch. It gave Alfred the image he always wanted. Alfred was a surrogate father even though they don't mention that strait up in the film. All parents just want to see their children happy and safe and seeing Bruce continue this crusade must have been killing him because he wanted whats best for Bruce. He wanted Bruce to live a regular life and be happy. Like every (or most) parents want for their children. I liked it.


The area I would like to discuss mainly is...

Spoiler:
John Blake becoming Knightwing/Robin/Batman?
I felt the ending was AMAZING. It really left me in shock but amazingly happy. My only thing i that it kinda gave you a glimpse of what was going to happen but it didnt feel like a end to batman to me. It felt like the movie was ending Bruce Wayne's story but not Batman. I actually feel like their still is a story to tell, especially with that ending. I feel like Bruce can't escape Batman. In the comics he has made some attempts to NOT be Batman. He even was removed from being Batman due to injury or other reasons but he can never escape the cape and cowl. But that may be just a fan holding on to the series.lol

Last edited by venom718; 07-21-2012 at 09:59 AM..
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  #384  
Old 07-21-2012, 10:14 AM
A couple nitpicks

Spoiler:
Bruce can't walk without a cane until his straps on his specially made knee brace but he has no difficulty climbing out of prison.


Spoiler:
The police force has been trapped underground for 3 months but emerges in fresh clothes, cleanly shaved and with the energy to take on a mob of hardened criminals.
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  #385  
Old 07-21-2012, 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamjohnson View Post
Victory has defeated you.

So this is basically the same plot as Rocky 3, right?
There was an abridged training sequence so you may be on to something . I don't know how a couple of push ups and and sit ups would prepare you for a hulking menace like Bane though
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  #386  
Old 07-21-2012, 10:53 AM
I don't agree with people saying this doesn't feel like a Batman movie. If anything it feels the most like a Batman movie out of the three (Or at least tied with BB) with the many plot elements borrowed from the source material, Bats and Cats teaming up and their banter, and the overall more comic booky plot and action. So the suite didn't have as much screen time as the last two, but within the context of the film that's not a problem what so ever. Batman was in it as much as he needed to be. As much as the plot of this film juggles, it felt more focused on Bruce and his arc than TDK did imo. I guess you could say BB and TDKR are about Bruce Wayne, while TDK is about Batman.
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  #387  
Old 07-21-2012, 11:01 AM
Some random thoughts that probably won't make sense :

Spoiler:
The fight scenes that Batman had with Bane were highly effective and wince inducing , especially the first one, i was getting all emotional watching Batman get so brutalized and i felt myself wanting to look away, then you know what happens at the conclusion of that skirmish, simply one of the most powerful scenes in any movie, felt like i was going to cry. One thing is for sure, with the advent of this film and the latest Spiderman, fight scenes are becoming more convincing and visceral in the comic book hero movie realm.

I didn't think the second encounter was as satisfying mainly because they sort of went the Batman and Robon route but you knew that was the only way he was going down ( damage the mask somehow or pull the supply tubes in B and R ). Okay, so they tacked on a second demise to distinguish itself, with Kyle saving the day at the last moment but i was expecting a bit more creativity concerning Bane's ultimate defeat . Just seemed a bit cheap and lazy having him bite the dust via firearms.
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  #388  
Old 07-21-2012, 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GodMagnus View Post
With the ending. I liked seeing Blake discover the cave and Alfred seeing Bruce and Selina in Italy. It was well done.
Spoiler:
how about Alfred discovering the cave and Selina seeing Bruce with Blake in Italy? ... i guess that wouldn't work since Alfred already knows about the cave.
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  #389  
Old 07-21-2012, 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poopontheshoes7 View Post
I don't agree with people saying this doesn't feel like a Batman movie. If anything it feels the most like a Batman movie out of the three (Or at least tied with BB) with the many plot elements borrowed from the source material, Bats and Cats teaming up and their banter, and the overall more comic booky plot and action. So the suite didn't have as much screen time as the last two, but within the context of the film that's not a problem what so ever. Batman was in it as much as he needed to be. As much as the plot of this film juggles, it felt more focused on Bruce and his arc than TDK did imo. I guess you could say BB and TDKR are about Bruce Wayne, while TDK is about Batman.
That's a good point, and i'm not one of those complaining about his lack of screen time but i do feel slightly cheated because of how rousing it was when Batman is involved. The doubts about his choice to become this legend and protector came to a head in this episode and he wouldn't even have decided to rise again if he felt someone else could do what needed to be done. He was already prepared to let his alter ego die until Kyle sparked his interest again and Bane threatened Gotham.

One striking aspect of the film is how unglamorous they made being a "hero" such as Batman seem . Even being a billionaire seemed depressing ( empty, meaningless, lonely, Bruce was wasting away in faded opulence ). SM, Supes, they have their conflicts but it's still awesome to be them. Even IM, it's all fun no matter how dire the circumstances, not so in this world . You would have to be insane to want to live in it let alone try to establish a sense of normalcy and peace.

The film effectively conveyed the price you pay for sacrifice, you are never the same again

Last edited by dellamorte dellamore; 07-21-2012 at 11:20 AM..
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  #390  
Old 07-21-2012, 11:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dellamorte dellamore View Post
Some random thoughts that probably won't make sense :

Spoiler:
The fight scenes that Batman had with Bane were highly effective and wince inducing , especially the first one, i was getting all emotional watching Batman get so brutalized and i felt myself wanting to look away, then you know what happens at the conclusion of that skirmish, simply one of the most powerful scenes in any movie, felt like i was going to cry. One thing is for sure, with the advent of this film and the latest Spiderman, fight scenes are becoming more convincing and visceral in the comic book hero movie realm.

I didn't think the second encounter was as satisfying mainly because they sort of went the Batman and Robon route but you knew that was the only way he was going down ( damage the mask somehow or pull the supply tubes in B and R ). Okay, so they tacked on a second demise to distinguish itself, with Kyle saving the day at the last moment but i was expecting a bit more creativity concerning Bane's ultimate defeat . Just seemed a bit cheap and lazy having him bite the dust via firearms.
Spoiler:
Totally agree especially the first fight in the sewers. I liked how Bane toyed with Batman and we get to witness the sheer power and evil of Bane. It was definitely hard to watch because Batman got the shit knocked out of him but it was very well done. I esp liked all the dialogue that Bane was spewing as he was kicking the Bat's ass. I need to watch it again to take in everything he said.
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  #391  
Old 07-21-2012, 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postmaster General View Post
Darth, did you

Spoiler:
know Miranda was Talia before hand?



Spoiler:
I didn't know beforehand. I figured it out before the reveal. I know Nolan stuck relatively close to the source material, so when they mentioned Bane as Ra's Al Ghoul's child, I knew Nolan wouldn't alter the universe THAT much. The only child Ra's had in the comics that I know of was Talia, so when they started talking about the kid, I put 2 and 2 together.
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  #392  
Old 07-21-2012, 11:53 AM
I loved this movie. Not sure if it is up there with TDK, but it is awful close. Bane was a great film he was cold and calculating as well as brutal. I felt that this film was extremely intense and emotional and I really enjoyed it. I thought the length of the film was good in my opinion I wish it was even longer. This was an intense emotional finish to a great trilogy and I was pleased.
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  #393  
Old 07-21-2012, 12:27 PM
I have some general thoughts about the film, I'll put anything major in spoiler tags but there will be minor spoilers throughout the entire post:

Okay so I saw it twice in IMAX yesterday at the Franklin Institute in Philly. It's a dome theater and I got there pretty late for the first viewing so I had terrible seats. Dome IMAX can be great, but good seats are essential, so for the second viewing I got there an hour and a half early and got the most perfect seats at the very top row in the center. I'm so glad I had the foresight to buy tickets for two showings, my second viewing was much more enjoyable, I could see everything much more clearly and I wasn't craning my neck for 3 hours.

I think the fight scenes in this film were the best out of the trilogy. I'd still like to see a Batman movie with fight scenes as fast and intense as the fights in the Raid, but with the Nolan films there is so much more to offer than just fights.

I thought it was a very impressive conclusion to the trilogy, especially considering how high the bar had been set from The Dark Knight. I think the only flaw in this is that this film suffers the most from being heavily edited compared to the last two. At several points it's obvious that entire scenes had to be cut to keep the film moving forward:

Spoiler:
There are some awkward cuts in the opening scene at Wayne manor. Also when Batman returns to Gotham he magically goes from the bridge with Kyle, to the ice with Gordon, to tunnel with Blake. Kyle's relationship with Juno Temple obviously had some stuff cut out of it. With what little screen time Temple actually got, the entire character probably could have been cut. The montage with Bane releasing the inmates and the entire revolution seemed a bit rushed as well.


However that's not a deal breaker, because at 2 hours and 45 minutes the film really moves along at a brisk pace. I didn't feel like any parts of the film dragged, whereas I can understand some viewer complains about the final act of TDK. Like I said, I spent 6 hours watching this movie yesterday in rather uncomfortable seats(why does a premium IMAX theater have such rigid seats with very little arm and leg room??) but I never felt like the movie had to hurry up.

I agree with Postmaster that Kyle's Catwoman was a high light of the film. I knew she nailed the part from her opening scene with Wayne where she quickly goes from playing the innocent to going "Oops" then kicking his cane out from under him. While Batman was busy being brooding and tragic, Catwoman had the best one-liners of the film and was clearly enjoying being a vigilante. She was morally gray and you never knew which side she was on, true to the comics, but she had the best arc of the film and actually felt like a genuine, three-dimensional character. I also found her relationship with Batman to be kind of touching, especially at the end of the film. The kiss at the end really moved me, and Nolan has come a long way from the awkward, emotionless kiss at the end of Batman Begins.

The ending was very important for a film like this, that was the obvious end to a trilogy about a character who typically has no end. The final act was edge-of-your seat excitement. The final fight with Bane was thrilling and so much more satisfying than the final fight between Batman and Joker in TDK. Everything in the film built up to this moment, and it didn't disappoint. The fight was brutal and real, Bane's speed was impressive and I loved his fast punches leading to him breaking off pieces of the column behind Batman. There was a nice nod to the comics as Batman broke part of his mask, but I like that it didn't completely incapacitate him, but made him angrier and more reckless.

Everything from the final fight to the last shot of the film was just perfect, it was powerful, and emotional. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't teary-eyed for the final few minutes.

Spoiler:
Batman's final words to Gordon really hit me hard, along with his earlier fight with Alfred. There were some tough moments in this film. Talia's twisting the blade in Batman's side as Bane choked him with a rope and Bane's brutal pummeling in their first fight was especially hard to watch. I was struggling to keep my composure as Batman flew out over the sea, stunned to think that Nolan was actually going to kill off Batman. The final reveal of Bruce in Italy and Blake rising as Nightwing were equally as triumphant, as the preceding few minutes were desperate and tragic.


I don't think the ending is ambiguous as some other's may believe:

Spoiler:
I saw the film twice yesterday, and after the first viewing I thought the ending was ambiguous and was leaning towards Bruce being dead. In hindsight I think it was because I was overcome with emotion and because of that I missed a few key details. It wasn't until the second viewing that I picked up on a scene that eliminates all ambiguity and confirms that Bruce does survive. There's a scene where Fox is having some engineers work on the Bat, he's guilt-ridden and needs to know if there's anything he could have done to fix the autopilot. The engineers say that the auto pilot is actually working fine and that a patch was administered 6 months ago. It turns out Bruce fixed the auto pilot almost immediately. He only said he didn't because he knew he was going to fake his own death.

As bleak as this trilogy has been, I'm glad that Nolan allowed Bruce Wayne to find some peace and happiness after all of the tragedy he had suffered.


Is it as good as the Dark Knight? I'm not sure, I don't really think it's necessary. I think each film has some flaws and some strengths over the other film. TDK may have had a better villain, but TDKR unquestionably has the stronger final act. I think I'm just grateful that we have such a great trilogy about Batman, and whoever steps in for the reboot has very, very large shoes to fill.

Last edited by DaveyJoeG; 07-21-2012 at 12:30 PM..
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  #394  
Old 07-21-2012, 12:54 PM
I too disliked a LOT how we see Selina shoot Bane but not his body. We assume he is dead and likely is, but it felt like a cop out. To see his body slide across the floor or something, just to justify that he is brutally taken down as he takes his victims down.
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  #395  
Old 07-21-2012, 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jig Saw 123 View Post
What do you guys think of the ending, specifically....

Spoiler:
Alfred seeing Bruce in Italy.
It pretty much ruined the movie for me, and I'm shocked more people don't feel the same.


Spoiler:
I wouldn't be surprised if Nolan wanted to end the movie with Wayne dying and either DC or WB stepped in and said you can't do that. It just felt like they shoe horned BW and Selina in the end to appease the masses. Your typical Hollywood ending of "hero performs a heroic stunt where there is no way he could have survived, but of course he does because we don't want to upset people."

And I'm not one of those guys who hates happy endings. I just want an apprpopiate ending. And with the tone of the overall trilogy, and the realism that Nolan strived for, I think having Wayne sacrifice himself to save the city he loves, while also have the Batman legend live on with Blake taking up the mantle would have been the most appropriate ending. What a POWERFUL and MEMORABLE emotional punch that would have left. But no, we get the "oh and btw BW escaped and lived happily ever after."

I cannot begin to explain how disappointed I was leaving the theater. I thought Nolan was the one director who would have the balls to kill off BW, but apparently he doesn't and he went for the safe cookie cutter ending.
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  #396  
Old 07-21-2012, 01:11 PM
Saw this last night, and am probably going again tonight to digest it all a little better. But, for now, some scattered thoughts:

Nolan definitely tries to have his cake and eat it too. It definitely leads to some of the plot holes, because with so much he's trying to do...something's gotta give logically. However, all of the nitpicks I've been reading really didn't bother me. To me, it was about the bigger picture...and yeah, you gotta sacrifice one for the other...but it's a small price I'm willing to play.

However, it did get in the way of some of the dramatic punches. With so much going on, I sometimes didn't feel as invested as I should have. There were certain aspects I wish were explored more than others. That's my only real major gripe. But again, there's so much to applaud here that it doesn't make it any less enjoyable.

I love how different this one feels from The Dark Knight. It makes no bones about it. As a viewer, there's a bit of an adjustment period (and especially since I re-watched TDK about 12 hours earlier), but once I accepted what kind of film this was, I found myself enjoying what it was going for more and more.

Like I mentioned earlier, Nolan really shoots for the stars with this one. I loved the Tale of Two Cities aspect of it. Adds a timeless quality. It just feels like a BIG movie. Even more so then TDK.

It's also definitely growing on me. Not that I left the theater disappointed (on the contrary), I just didn't have that immediate feeling I had leaving TDK. But as I think about it more and more...holy fuck, this was something else. Can't wait to go for a second helping.

And yes...Selina was one of my favourite aspects of this one. I was pretty indifferent to the idea beforehand, but Anne Hathaway had her way with me.
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  #397  
Old 07-21-2012, 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by intheDirectionoftheMoon View Post
It pretty much ruined the movie for me, and I'm shocked more people don't feel the same.


Spoiler:
I wouldn't be surprised if Nolan wanted to end the movie with Wayne dying and either DC or WB stepped in and said you can't do that. It just felt like they shoe horned BW and Selina in the end to appease the masses. Your typical Hollywood ending of "hero performs a heroic stunt where there is no way he could have survived, but of course he does because we don't want to upset people."

And I'm not one of those guys who hates happy endings. I just want an apprpopiate ending. And with the tone of the overall trilogy, and the realism that Nolan strived for, I think having Wayne sacrifice himself to save the city he loves, while also have the Batman legend live on with Blake taking up the mantle would have been the most appropriate ending. What a POWERFUL and MEMORABLE emotional punch that would have left. But no, we get the "oh and btw BW escaped and lived happily ever after."

I cannot begin to explain how disappointed I was leaving the theater. I thought Nolan was the one director who would have the balls to kill off BW, but apparently he doesn't and he went for the safe cookie cutter ending.
No. Nolan has final cut. The ending is exactly what he wanted.

Spoiler:
What's so wrong with Nolan wanting Bruce to find some happiness after all of the suffering and tragedy he's experienced? In this film, Bruce Wayne's entire arc is about him overcoming his need for martyrdom by learning to fear death. After Rachel he wants to die as Batman to escape the guilt and grief he wallows in everyday. In this film he's able to overcome that and by rediscovering his soul he is able to move on, and become a real human being again. I like tragedies as much as the next guy, but Bruce deserved some happiness after the incredibly dark and bleak events in the trilogy. Bruce dying at the end wouldn't have done any service to the character within the context of this trilogy. It's got nothing to do with balls.




Quote:
Originally Posted by GodMagnus View Post
I too disliked a LOT how we see Selina shoot Bane but not his body. We assume he is dead and likely is, but it felt like a cop out. To see his body slide across the floor or something, just to justify that he is brutally taken down as he takes his victims down.
I'm sorry, I just don't understand what you were expecting to see? It's a PG-13 movie, and I think they got away with a hell of a lot considering.

Last edited by DaveyJoeG; 07-21-2012 at 01:54 PM..
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  #398  
Old 07-21-2012, 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
I'm sorry, I just don't understand what you were expecting to see? It's a PG-13 movie, and I think they got away with a hell of a lot considering.
Very true. There were a lot of cut-away scenes because the violence would be too much for a PG-13. TDK did the same thing.
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  #399  
Old 07-21-2012, 02:17 PM

DaveyJoe, you hit the nail on the head with your review. Great stuff.
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  #400  
Old 07-21-2012, 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
I have some general thoughts about the film, I'll put anything major in spoiler tags but there will be minor spoilers throughout the entire post:

Okay so I saw it twice in IMAX yesterday at the Franklin Institute in Philly. It's a dome theater and I got there pretty late for the first viewing so I had terrible seats. Dome IMAX can be great, but good seats are essential, so for the second viewing I got there an hour and a half early and got the most perfect seats at the very top row in the center. I'm so glad I had the foresight to buy tickets for two showings, my second viewing was much more enjoyable, I could see everything much more clearly and I wasn't craning my neck for 3 hours.

I think the fight scenes in this film were the best out of the trilogy. I'd still like to see a Batman movie with fight scenes as fast and intense as the fights in the Raid, but with the Nolan films there is so much more to offer than just fights.

I thought it was a very impressive conclusion to the trilogy, especially considering how high the bar had been set from The Dark Knight. I think the only flaw in this is that this film suffers the most from being heavily edited compared to the last two. At several points it's obvious that entire scenes had to be cut to keep the film moving forward:

Spoiler:
There are some awkward cuts in the opening scene at Wayne manor. Also when Batman returns to Gotham he magically goes from the bridge with Kyle, to the ice with Gordon, to tunnel with Blake. Kyle's relationship with Juno Temple obviously had some stuff cut out of it. With what little screen time Temple actually got, the entire character probably could have been cut. The montage with Bane releasing the inmates and the entire revolution seemed a bit rushed as well.


However that's not a deal breaker, because at 2 hours and 45 minutes the film really moves along at a brisk pace. I didn't feel like any parts of the film dragged, whereas I can understand some viewer complains about the final act of TDK. Like I said, I spent 6 hours watching this movie yesterday in rather uncomfortable seats(why does a premium IMAX theater have such rigid seats with very little arm and leg room??) but I never felt like the movie had to hurry up.

I agree with Postmaster that Kyle's Catwoman was a high light of the film. I knew she nailed the part from her opening scene with Wayne where she quickly goes from playing the innocent to going "Oops" then kicking his cane out from under him. While Batman was busy being brooding and tragic, Catwoman had the best one-liners of the film and was clearly enjoying being a vigilante. She was morally gray and you never knew which side she was on, true to the comics, but she had the best arc of the film and actually felt like a genuine, three-dimensional character. I also found her relationship with Batman to be kind of touching, especially at the end of the film. The kiss at the end really moved me, and Nolan has come a long way from the awkward, emotionless kiss at the end of Batman Begins.

The ending was very important for a film like this, that was the obvious end to a trilogy about a character who typically has no end. The final act was edge-of-your seat excitement. The final fight with Bane was thrilling and so much more satisfying than the final fight between Batman and Joker in TDK. Everything in the film built up to this moment, and it didn't disappoint. The fight was brutal and real, Bane's speed was impressive and I loved his fast punches leading to him breaking off pieces of the column behind Batman. There was a nice nod to the comics as Batman broke part of his mask, but I like that it didn't completely incapacitate him, but made him angrier and more reckless.

Everything from the final fight to the last shot of the film was just perfect, it was powerful, and emotional. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't teary-eyed for the final few minutes.

Spoiler:
Batman's final words to Gordon really hit me hard, along with his earlier fight with Alfred. There were some tough moments in this film. Talia's twisting the blade in Batman's side as Bane choked him with a rope and Bane's brutal pummeling in their first fight was especially hard to watch. I was struggling to keep my composure as Batman flew out over the sea, stunned to think that Nolan was actually going to kill off Batman. The final reveal of Bruce in Italy and Blake rising as Nightwing were equally as triumphant, as the preceding few minutes were desperate and tragic.


I don't think the ending is ambiguous as some other's may believe:

Spoiler:
I saw the film twice yesterday, and after the first viewing I thought the ending was ambiguous and was leaning towards Bruce being dead. In hindsight I think it was because I was overcome with emotion and because of that I missed a few key details. It wasn't until the second viewing that I picked up on a scene that eliminates all ambiguity and confirms that Bruce does survive. There's a scene where Fox is having some engineers work on the Bat, he's guilt-ridden and needs to know if there's anything he could have done to fix the autopilot. The engineers say that the auto pilot is actually working fine and that a patch was administered 6 months ago. It turns out Bruce fixed the auto pilot almost immediately. He only said he didn't because he knew he was going to fake his own death.

As bleak as this trilogy has been, I'm glad that Nolan allowed Bruce Wayne to find some peace and happiness after all of the tragedy he had suffered.


Is it as good as the Dark Knight? I'm not sure, I don't really think it's necessary. I think each film has some flaws and some strengths over the other film. TDK may have had a better villain, but TDKR unquestionably has the stronger final act. I think I'm just grateful that we have such a great trilogy about Batman, and whoever steps in for the reboot has very, very large shoes to fill.
Great review, Davey. I agree with a lot of your points, but I think for me, Bruce's arc was the most satisfying one in the film. Nolan really did create the most suitable and justifiable ending for the Batman of his trilogy.

Spoiler:
Having Bruce find peace and happiness was the best possible choice for the character. After all, he suffered and endured so much, including learning to fear death and revalue his life, that he deserved to survive and be happy. Plus, what really got me stoked was the scene alluding to Robin continuing Batman's legacy. What a fantastic final shot, I was pumped!

It wasn't just the conclusion that sold me, I was there from the get go. I liked how Nolan took his time and built everything up. The plot builds slowly, much like the storm that Selina refers to in the film. This makes all the twists and dramatic moments of the film that much more impactful. I was also horrified during Bane's breaking of Batman, what a brutal and fantastic scene! Also, everyone in the cast really nailed it this film, especially newcomers Anne Hathaway, Tom Hardy, and Joseph Gordon Levitt.

My personal favorite scene? When Bruce makes the climb up the prison walls without a rope. Spine-tingling!!!!
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