The Dark Knight Rises

[shawn-o]

Originally Posted by The Postmaster General

Nolan is very adamant about his films not having any political message.

For Sure. I definitely get what Nolan was saying when he said his biggest inspirations for TDKR were Metropolis and A Tale of Two Cities

[shawn-o]

Originally Posted by Darth Kenshin

This is 8 years after Dark Knight and Gotham has changed a lot in that time. Makes sense to shoot in a completely different city to show that now, Gotham IS a completely different city.

hmmm...I didn't think of it like that before, as much as I missed Chi-town, that does make alot of sense.

[dellamorte dellamore]

I'm glad someone finally filmed key scenes of a Batman film in NYC .

I guess the debate will never end as to what Gotham is modeled after, supposedly different writers had various inspirations and some even combined multiple cities to create a sort of amalgam of major Us cities to stand in as Gotham, from what i understand.

I see Gotham as Manhattan and Wayne manor as being located outside the city limits, possibly to the east on Long Island ( Northern Nassau County ) or even to the North of NYC (Westchester County maybe ). Could easily be in Connecticut also.

That's just the vision i always had since the Burton films because as a child in love with the Tv series incarnation i pictured Gotham as Los Angeles, that's probably because it was filmed there.

Oheka Castle on LI stood in for Wayne Manor in BF and B and R, at least some of the exteriors, i'm not sure if any interior shots were filmed there and one scene in BF was filmed in Nyc ( an exterior shot of Wayne entering the building where Meridian had an office ) , so that further cemented my connection with Batman's Gotham and Nyc .

I did notice two things in TDKR concerning the locations. The hospital scenes were shot in England, you can tell because the doors in the hospital have a circle on them, i forgot what's written on them but i've been there 4 times and they are on every public door in that country . Same thing for the airport scenes . So that means Gordon was flown to England to be treated for his injuries at a Uk hospital ( maybe he didn't have adequate insurance coverage ) and Selina flew to England from the Usa and then tried to leave that country just to escape Gotham

[shawn-o]

Originally Posted by adamjohnson

I saw two weird cameos - the guy who plays Quinn on Dexter played the Bridge Cop. And Chris Judge - Teal'c from Stargate - was a merc in it for like 2 seconds.

Also Tom Lennon as the doctor of course.

Don't forget Chris Ellis as the priest leader of the boys home. A guy who was in like almost every action movie from the 1990s and early 2000s

The Dark Knight was the exact same way I felt recognizable faces here and there, I loved it.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally Posted by shawn-o

For Sure. I definitely get what Nolan was saying when he said his biggest inspirations for TDKR were Metropolis and A Tale of Two Cities

Yeah, I think he's more interested in the storytelling aspect, the conflicts and resolves. Like Gordon (the schmoe, not the fictitious commissioner) said, there's surely something people can take from it but Nolan seems pretty much just about the craft, at least from what he said. Of course, he could be secret agent working for The Ministry of Propaganda. After…

Spoiler:

The whole Talia and Robin thing, I don't think he can be trusted.

[Bossk]

I have only seen the movie once, now. Although it didn't meet my unrealistic high expectations, I really enjoyed myself. Great movie, great villain, great hero. One thing I didn't really get though was:

Spoiler:

The whole 'bloodtransfusion' thing in the airplane

What was THAT all about? Does anyone know? I don't recall it being referred to later on in the movie...

[DaveyJoeG]

Originally Posted by Bossk

I have only seen the movie once, now. Although it didn't meet my unrealistic high expectations, I really enjoyed myself. Great movie, great villain, great hero. One thing I didn't really get though was:

Spoiler:

The whole 'bloodtransfusion' thing in the airplane

What was THAT all about? Does anyone know? I don't recall it being referred to later on in the movie...

Spoiler:

They put Dr. Pavel's blood in a dead man so when the CIA searched the wreckage, they would think he died in the crash. It was used to cover Bane's tracks, and also get them to stop searching for Dr. Pavel. Later Miranda is talking to Bruce and trying to convince him to continue the reactor program. Dr. Pavel's essay about turning that reactor into a weapon is why Bruce pulled the plug, and Miranda tells him that Dr. Pavel died 6 months earlier, so they should go ahead with it.

[Bossk]

Thanks, DaveyJoeG! That makes so much sense, that I should have figured it out for myself! :-) I guess a lot of things were going on in a short period of time in the movie, especially when you are sitting front row in an IMAX theatre, like I have. I'm looking foreward to having a second look at the movie, one of these days.

[DaveyJoeG]

Originally Posted by Bossk

Thanks, DaveyJoeG! That makes so much sense, that I should have figured it out for myself! :-) I guess a lot of things were going on in a short period of time in the movie, especially when you are sitting front row in an IMAX theatre, like I have. I'm looking foreward to having a second look at the movie, one of these days.

No worries man, there's a lot going on in this movie, it's easy to miss subtle details like that. I also saw it in the front row of an IMAX theater and I had a tough time following a lot of the action. I saw it a second time in IMAX with the most perfect seats at the top row, and everything was much more clear.

[Digifruitella]

Originally Posted by shawn-o

Don't forget Chris Ellis as the priest leader of the boys home. A guy who was in like almost every action movie from the 1990s and early 2000s

The Dark Knight was the exact same way I felt recognizable faces here and there, I loved it.

Thats what I loved about it, it's sprinkled with so many recognizable faces. Actors you may not know the names of, but have seen them before in bit parts of else.

While we're at it, I recognized, Reggie Lee, Rob Brown (really quick glimpse of him in the Gotham Exchange scene playing a cop), Michael Papajohn (he may have been one of the cops or the mercs. He shows up in the last act of the flick somewhere. And lastly Frederic Lehne. Used to see him in the 90's all the time, plus he's the US Marshall guy in season 1 of Lost. He shows up in the Gotham Stock Exchange scene as well as some suit outside the building

[psycheoutsteve]

Originally Posted by Digifruitella

Thats what I loved about it, it's sprinkled with so many recognizable faces. Actors you may not know the names of, but have seen them before in bit parts of else.

While we're at it, I recognized, Reggie Lee, Rob Brown (really quick glimpse of him in the Gotham Exchange scene playing a cop), Michael Papajohn (he may have been one of the cops or the mercs. He shows up in the last act of the flick somewhere. And lastly Frederic Lehne. Used to see him in the 90's all the time, plus he's the US Marshall guy in season 1 of Lost. He shows up in the Gotham Stock Exchange scene as well as some suit outside the building

I loved the fact that Michael Jai White and Eric Roberts showed up in TDK. It was great to see Matthew Modine in TDKR as well.

[Digifruitella]

Originally Posted by psycheoutsteve

I loved the fact that Michael Jai White and Eric Roberts showed up in TDK. It was great to see Matthew Modine in TDKR as well.

I truly love Nolan's 'obsession' if you want to call it that, in giving 80's actors roles in his films.

Also, was I tripping or did I also see Doyle from Justified? Yep, Joseph Lyle Taylor was in this too, so no. Plus the dump truck driver was also one of the guys from Justified.

[gyro_44]

A few other actors who pop up in tiny little parts -

Brent Briscoe (A Simple Plan, Sling Blade) as a cop

Desmond Harrington (Dexter) as... a cop

Yeah, the movie is full of "who's that?" faces.

[hoojib127]

Originally Posted by Digifruitella

I truly love Nolan's 'obsession' if you want to call it that, in giving 80's actors roles in his films.

Yep. Then there was Rutger Hauer in "Batman Begins" and Tom Berenger in "Inception." I suppose both William Devane and Tom Conti in this film could also qualify as two more of those.

A couple Lost bit players also made appearances: Bret Cullen (Goodwin) who played the Congressman, and Fredric Lehne (Marshal Mars) who played the Exchange Security Chief.

[shawn-o]

Originally Posted by hoojib127

Yep. Then there was Rutger Hauer in "Batman Begins" and Tom Berenger in "Inception." I suppose both William Devane and Tom Conti in this film could also qualify as two more of those.

A couple Lost bit players also made appearances: Bret Cullen (Goodwin) who played the Congressman, and Fredric Lehne (Marshal Mars) who played the Exchange Security Chief.

Don't forget Anthony Michael Hall...I kind of wished he showed up again as Mike Engel for Gotham Tonight!

There was another actor who brought Daggit's assistant to exile, a bald latino actor-Noel Gugliemi. Always plays a mexican gangster in his movies. Training Day, Street Kings, SWAT...even Bruce Almighty

[Bossk]

Link to a scene (not great quality):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK77Q4j53L8

[P1NSTR1PEZ]

This is AMAZING - Hanz Zimmer takes you inside of The Dark Knight Rises music process in a video + Bane's voice - http://wp.me/p2CCWq-1nO

[Digifruitella]

Originally Posted by shawn-o

There was another actor who brought Daggit's assistant to exile, a bald latino actor-Noel Gugliemi. Always plays a mexican gangster in his movies. Training Day, Street Kings, SWAT...even Bruce Almighty

Yes, forgot about him. Hector from The Fast & The Furious.

[Digifruitella]

Oh yeah and also Bellick from Prison Break

[jz68]

Originally Posted by P1NSTR1PEZ

This is AMAZING - Hanz Zimmer takes you inside of The Dark Knight Rises music process in a video + Bane's voice - http://wp.me/p2CCWq-1nO

He's flat out lying about Hardy's voice not being messed with. Anybody who saw the prologue last year will tell you how noticeable the changes were.

[hoojib127]

Originally Posted by jz68

He's flat out lying about Hardy's voice not being messed with. Anybody who saw the prologue last year will tell you how noticeable the changes were.

Never saw the prologue last year, but Bane's voice sounded like Edward Heath on a respirator to me.

[jz68]

Here's a bootleg of the prologue from last year.

http://www.telly.com/H3GG8?fromtwitvid=1

[adamjohnson]

Originally Posted by hoojib127

Never saw the prologue last year, but Bane's voice sounded like Edward Heath on a respirator to me.

All right here, folks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZW5qyc2g6U

[spooky]

Originally Posted by jz68

He's flat out lying about Hardy's voice not being messed with. Anybody who saw the prologue last year will tell you how noticeable the changes were.

Richard King said they tried to make Bane's voice as understandable(and natural) as possible. of course they used effects on his voice, but they were kept on a more minimal tone. he never said that it was flat out Hardy's voice and nothing else.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally Posted by P1NSTR1PEZ

This is AMAZING - Hanz Zimmer takes you inside of The Dark Knight Rises music process in a video + Bane's voice - http://wp.me/p2CCWq-1nO

That is really awesome! I like the line about technology making things harder and can relate to that - giving you more liberation for tweaking and so forth. There used to be a time where you'd record something and that was about it and now the production process can go forever.

Originally Posted by jz68

He's flat out lying about Hardy's voice not being messed with. Anybody who saw the prologue last year will tell you how noticeable the
changes were.

You took what he said totally out of context. Pretty much every single actor in every film's voice is "messed with." What he was saying is that they didn't add effects or anything, hence him going on to talk about how they tooled with adding water sounds and breathing sounds but decided to leave it as is. All he said was that Hardy was actually doing that voice, then he added that the only thing they did was "make it as understandable as possible."

I also don't get the big hub dub over the IMAX prologue and the final cut. The only difference seems to be equalization. That was the first I've seen the IMAX preview and am flat-out dismayed that so much has been made over the difference. The way people have been talking, I thought it was completely redubbed. It's the exact same voice recording.

Originally Posted by g05

Richard King said they tried to make Bane's voice as understandable(and natural) as possible. of course they used effects on his voice, but they were kept on a more minimal tone. he never said that it was flat out Hardy's voice and nothing else.

Yeah, I open all the threads I want to read then reply to them one by one. I still maintain it's the easiest way to navigate and reply on these forums, despite occasionally sounding like that guy in Pootie Tang who repeats what Chris Rock's character in Tang's entourage always says.

[jz68]

The voices are clearly different. The final version sounds like a bad dub.

[DaveyJoeG]

The changes to Bane's voice are minimal. He's a bit louder and less mumbly, but that's typical of every Nolan film. Go back and watch the trailer for The Dark Knight. He always uses different takes for the trailers and the final version of the film. I think the fact that they are different takes from Hardy is causing the exaggerations about his voice being completely revamped.

[adamjohnson]

Originally Posted by The Postmaster General

That is really awesome! I like the line about technology making things harder and can relate to that - giving you more liberation for tweaking and so forth. There used to be a time where you'd record something and that was about it and now the production process can go forever.



You took what he said totally out of context. Pretty much every single actor in every film's voice is "messed with." What he was saying is that they didn't add effects or anything, hence him going on to talk about how they tooled with adding water sounds and breathing sounds but decided to leave it as is. All he said was that Hardy was actually doing that voice, then he added that the only thing they did was "make it as understandable as possible."

I also don't get the big hub dub over the IMAX prologue and the final cut. The only difference seems to be equalization. That was the first I've seen the IMAX preview and am flat-out dismayed that so much has been made over the difference. The way people have been talking, I thought it was completely redubbed. It's the exact same voice recording.






Yeah, I open all the threads I want to read then reply to them one by one. I still maintain it's the easiest way to navigate and reply on these forums, despite occasionally sounding like that guy in Pootie Tang who repeats what Chris Rock's character in Tang's entourage always says.

It was redubbed. Some of the lines are actually different, and you can hear very clearly the one line that wasn't changed.

Or different takes.

What I hated about his voice was that it sounded like we were inside his mask. And not as a third party, listening to it outside, muffled by the mask.

And it was so much damn louder than anybody else.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally Posted by adamjohnson

It was redubbed. Some of the lines are actually different, and you can hear very clearly the one line that wasn't changed.

Aside from the one that was cut shorter, which one?

[misbehave]

Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG

I'm just glad we didn't get a shot of Bruce being crowd-surfed by the people, with his arms spread out like a cross. I think that symbolism is there, but with the excitement of just seeing the film, I'm a bit too focused on the trees to step back and look at the forest. Although I must admit I might have continued to go to church if Jesus had a hovercraft.

LMAO,
You last comment just made my day.

[misbehave]

Originally Posted by The Postmaster General

Ha!

I'm waiting for the deleted scene with him walking on water to get back to Gotham.

What about…

Spoiler:

A flood to destroy life on Earth (Gotham)

LMAO......

[The Postmaster General]

[Digifruitella]

Originally Posted by The Postmaster General

I also don't get the big hub dub over the IMAX prologue and the final cut. The only difference seems to be equalization. That was the first I've seen the IMAX preview and am flat-out dismayed that so much has been made over the difference. The way people have been talking, I thought it was completely redubbed. It's the exact same voice recording.

Actually, no. It's not the same. I remember when I went to see the Prologue his voice intonation overall was sinister, that Prologue vs Theatrical comparison is spot on. There's only one line that hasn't changed and that is "Crashing this plane" everything else was glaringly a different redub. Listen to it again, and pay attention to his intonation

[The Postmaster General]

Originally Posted by Digifruitella

Actually, no. It's not the same. I remember when I went to see the Prologue his voice intonation overall was sinister, that Prologue vs Theatrical comparison is spot on. There's only one line that hasn't changed and that is "Crashing this plane" everything else was glaringly a different redub. Listen to it again, and pay attention to his intonation

It actually is the intonation, pacing and where he places emphasis that make me think it was the same, just a different mix. I'm pretty far alone on this, I know, because the Internet has been buzzing about it being beyond proof that it's redubbed. But the best I can tell the equalization is different and some filtering. I hope I'm not seeming daft here and will admit the first time I listened to it, there were distractions and the 2 - 4th time was through a bluetooth earpiece. I'm just not hearing the lines as differently as everyone else is. I mean, yes, they sound way different, but to me it sounds the same just in terms of what frequencies are being raised. Why would his voice be so much louder if they redubbed it? It shouldn't be. But it would be much louder if they raised EQ levels. I feel I'm wrong about this, just because everyone is saying it isn't so, but that doesn't mean I can suddenly hear it. Maybe I'll give it ago with better sound but I'd really like to overlay the two audio tracks on top of one another. There's no way in hell it would match up if it was redubbed.

EDIT: Okay, I'm noticing some cadence differences but now I don't even know. I feel like I'm looking at one of those hologram pictures and saying I see the eagle just so people will lay off. I just don't get why it sounds like it's mixed louder than the other characters and why there hasn't been any official clarification. As late as April, at least, Hardy talked about it and didn't say they did any redubbing. Why would Warner Brothers deny redubbing, if people were complaining about it being needed?

[misbehave]

Now I am waiting for the next Batman/NightWing movie (maybe in a few years) with Joseph Gordon Levitt as the hero and hoping to see a cameo appearance by Bale maybe to help out Blake to solve a real tricky case.......

[jz68]

Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG

The changes to Bane's voice are minimal. He's a bit louder and less mumbly, but that's typical of every Nolan film. Go back and watch the trailer for The Dark Knight. He always uses different takes for the trailers and the final version of the film. I think the fact that they are different takes from Hardy is causing the exaggerations about his voice being completely revamped.

They didn't use other takes, they cleaned up the voice in post-production.

[The Postmaster General]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdb2w1Yu97E

[adamjohnson]

Originally Posted by The Postmaster General

Aside from the one that was cut shorter, which one?

See, I have these things called EARS, you may have heard of them, that allow me to deduce different intonations between syllables and words in sentences.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally Posted by adamjohnson

See, I have these things called EARS, you may have heard of them, that allow me to deduce different intonations between syllables and words in sentences.

Well, I'm glad you have ears but a very basic discussion of audio engineering is what I've been talking about. I already said that the voices sounded different, just that I didn't believe it was a new audio recording but instead a different mix and that I just hadn't dun got listen to it reel good.

As one of hundreds of different examples of filters that can change the way your fancy ears hear things...

Premiere Pro uses a direct-simulation method of achieving a chorus effect, making each voice (or layer) sound distinct from the original by slightly varying timing, intonation, and vibrato.

And that's a filter that changes one thing into multiple things of different intonations. There's lots of different ways to make changes like that. It's the way electronic, sample-based musicians are able to put together dissonant tracks to make cohesive pieces. Hell not even getting into all this fancy stuff, it's 2012, everyone has heard of an auto-tuner. I mean, not even getting into music released in the last 30 years, I'm sure you don't believe that the people who do the voices for The Chipmunks actually sung in that register.

Then there's also the fact that these are bootlegged recordings made in different theaters with different acoustics, different recording devices, etc. etc. I'm sure your ears are great and like I said I heard the intonations, cadence and emphasis Hardy used. That just didn't make me think it was a completely different recording (i.e., re-dubbing as in rerecording over top the scene, which is how dubbing is unusually referred to in film) and instead a different mix and the use of filters.

All I asked you was to tell me how the lines were different, aside from one being cut shorter. I was just giving you the benefit of the doubt that maybe the lines were spoken differently (because that's what "lines are actually different" meant to me, much different than the audio is different. Lines are dialogue, not the way the audio is recorded) -- I didn't think you would break from a normal discussion and get condescending on the basis of not agreeing that intonation or even pitch can be radically affected by post tools. I genuinely thought you were saying that the lines were different, i.e. what was being a spoken and just trying to clarify that. Well, you clarified for me that this wasn't what you meant and much more. Thanks for being such a good sport.

[DaveyJoeG]

Originally Posted by jz68

They didn't use other takes, they cleaned up the voice in post-production.

Well, it was all done in post-production. All of Bane's dialogue was recorded in ADR because they couldn't use his on-location sound. Hell, all of the actors' dialogue shot with IMAX cameras was dubbed in ADR because the cameras are so freaking loud. Nolan said they weren't finished tweaking Bane's voice when the prologue was released. I've listened to the comparison video several times and I was incredibly underwhelmed by it, they're really not that different. Yes his voice sounds a bit louder and less mumbly, but the spirit of the voice is exactly the same. People are acting like he went from Darth Vader to Yoda.

Bane is just like any other character in a Nolan film, what you see and hear in the trailers is not what you see and hear in the final product. Seriously, go back and watch the trailers for The Dark Knight, Nolan used different takes for the final film.