The Dark Knight Rises

[The Postmaster General]

Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG

Well, it was all done in post-production. All of Bane's dialogue was recorded in ADR because they couldn't use his on-location sound. Hell, all of the actors' dialogue shot with IMAX cameras was dubbed in ADR because the cameras are so freaking loud. Nolan said they weren't finished tweaking Bane's voice when the prologue was released. I've listened to the comparison video several times and I was incredibly underwhelmed by it, they're really not that different. Yes his voice sounds a bit louder and less mumbly, but the spirit of the voice is exactly the same. People are acting like he went from Darth Vader to Yoda.

Bane is just like any other character in a Nolan film, what you see and hear in the trailers is not what you see and hear in the final product. Seriously, go back and watch the trailers for The Dark Knight, Nolan used different takes for the final film.

BINGO!

Re-reading through it, I think jz took "different take" as another, unique recording of Hardy saying the lines, not a different take as in being from another recording source.

I just think it's hilarious that there's this unspoken allegation that Hardy, Nolan, King and WB studios are engaging in an active lie…

EDIT: Of course I'm also not clear on what definition of redub and takes each person is using, but ultimately…



I'm just trying to engage in what should be a fairly straight forward discussion but with the usual suspects it turns into a pissing contest.

[jz68]

That's not what Nolan said at all. The first thing he had to say in response to people complaining about Bane's voice was that he wasn't going to tamper with it and what we saw in the prologue was the finished product. It was a week or two later that he backed off and said that there was still some tweaking to be done.

[DaveyJoeG]

Originally Posted by jz68

That's not what Nolan said at all. The first thing he had to say in response to people complaining about Bane's voice was that he wasn't going to tamper with it and what we saw in the prologue was the finished product. It was a week or two later that he backed off and said that there was still some tweaking to be done.

He said both, I think you've misunderstood both of my posts, but that's probably my fault. I should have said that they weren't done tweaking the sound mix. Nolan said that Hardy hadn't finished his ADR sessions but they were not going to change his voice. I don't think they were referring to the volume or distortion level, but the fact that he sounds like Sean Connery after smoking a blunt. I don't remember him ever publicly stating that he would change the voice.

[soda]

who the heck but super-duper film enthusiasts who know all the inner-workings of cinema would Bane's voice, and the dubbing or lack thereof, to create it even be an issue for? Oh, wait.....

[The Postmaster General]

Originally Posted by soda

who the heck but super-duper film enthusiasts who know all the inner-workings of cinema would Bane's voice, and the dubbing or lack thereof, to create it even be an issue for? Oh, wait.....

LOL. I seldom say "word" but: word! I was blown away, when trying to find more backstory on it, to see pages on pages of Google cache devoted to this. I just thought it was an interesting chance to discuss the audio engineering aspect (how much it was changed vs how much was just a better mix), after the sound featurette had been posted but then found myself engaged in the least interesting aspect of Bane and Hardy's performance.

In doing so though, I actually came across this bit of Hardy talking about his inspiration for the voice, which is the guy who's the subject of this documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB0_QEh-KVs

Of course this has probably been discussed already, but it was interesting. The guy sounds much more "average" than I expected voice-wise but I definitely think I get where Hardy was coming from.

But about fervent movie debating, it did remind me of why I don't pay attention to the previews and stuff and was thinking of a rant about it. Between people pissing on Bane's voice from the IMAX preview and people off on Jackson's 60fps footage from The Hobbit, I'm starting to wonder why filmmakers even bother previewing their movies like this. I know there's a demand for it, but I don't even get that because I pretty much like to go in completely cold. I can't image watching that amazing opening in Rises and being taken out by thinking how little or how much the voice had changed. [/tangental topic]

[DaveyJoeG]

Yeah releasing the prologue early kind of backfired after all of the ridiculous bitching.

[P1NSTR1PEZ]

WB Already Planning Batman Reboot - Shooting for 2016 Apparently - http://wp.me/p2CCWq-1pQ

[DaMovieMan]

Anyone else obsessed with this film's music? I can't seem to listen to anything else these days..

Oh, and, Bane's voice is one of the best things about the Batman trilogy.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally Posted by DaMovieMan

Anyone else obsessed with this film's music? I can't seem to listen to anything else these days..

Oh, and, Bane's voice is one of the best things about the Batman trilogy.

I wasn't a fan initially but still have mixed feelings. For me it ranges from amazing to somewhat over the top. I'd definitely pick up the score to listen to on its own but at times I felt it was overwhelming what was happening on screen. (such as during scenes where NSA? is overseeing the terror in Gotham) I think it was the timpani drums that got overbearing for me. On the flip side, I thought the low synth stuff that was present in a lot of the lower key moments was great.

Originally Posted by P1NSTR1PEZ

WB Already Planning Batman Reboot - Shooting for 2016 Apparently - http://wp.me/p2CCWq-1pQ

Summary of the article: Maybe sort of kinda like might be but we aren't really sure yet. This one guy says they may do it.

[CuatroDiablos]

I say continue with what Nolan Left , a great lead Actor like JGL and keep the same tone but bring a little more eccentricity to it by having enemies like the Riddler and Penguin.

[gyro_44]

Originally Posted by DaMovieMan

Anyone else obsessed with this film's music? I can't seem to listen to anything else these days..

Yeah, it's great stuff. What's your favorite track? For me it's Gotham's Reckoning, or Rise. Imagine the Fire is awesome as well.

I think Nolan, just like he has a great understanding of themes, story and visuals, has a great understanding of how sound works in a movie. And he and Zimmer are clearly a force to be reckoned with at this point. Inception also had a stunning score.

[Bossk]

Originally Posted by CuatroDiablos

I say continue with what Nolan Left , a great lead Actor like JGL and keep the same tone but bring a little more eccentricity to it by having enemies like the Riddler and Penguin.

I would say Scarecrow and The Joker were pretty eccentric guys, but I agree. Wait four years, then continue with JGL. Mad Hatter, Dr Strange, hey maybe even make up a new villain?

[castlesave]

i wouldnt mind seeing something completely different. something centered around arkham asylum maybe (similar to the video game perhaps). Or something in the style of the long Halloween. not quite as grounded in reality but not completely childish either.

[adamjohnson]

One of the biggest complaints of TDK is it has low re-watch value, since it's so heavy and even kind of depressing; whereas a film like Avengers had high re-watchability, thanks in part to how FUN it was.

Expect a swing in that direction.

[CuatroDiablos]

Originally Posted by adamjohnson

One of the biggest complaints of TDK is it has low re-watch value, since it's so heavy and even kind of depressing; whereas a film like Avengers had high re-watchability, thanks in part to how FUN it was.

Expect a swing in that direction.

TDk IMO is way more rewatchable than The Avengers , you get sucked in the plot and amazing performances. For the Avengers I will probably skip to the cool action parts and that's it.

[CuatroDiablos]

Originally Posted by castlesave

i wouldnt mind seeing something completely different. something centered around arkham asylum maybe (similar to the video game perhaps). Or something in the style of the long Halloween. not quite as grounded in reality but not completely childish either.

But the Arkham Asylum and City games are a lot more darker than Nolan's TDK , people were already complaining about the tone from this Trilogy I can only Imagine if we get a darker Batman in the future.

[Bossk]

I know it's a totally different world, but I personally like the fun, drama and flow of a movie like X-men: First Class. If they could achieve that kind of atmosphere, it would be perfect for me. I don't know if that could work well for a character like Batman, though. My view of Batman is perhaps still too much influenced by Nolan's adaptation to imagine a different approach.

[hoojib127]

Originally Posted by adamjohnson

One of the biggest complaints of TDK is it has low re-watch value, since it's so heavy and even kind of depressing; whereas a film like Avengers had high re-watchability, thanks in part to how FUN it was.

Expect a swing in that direction.

Well, that's what happens when a movie tackles real-world issues. If more people would actually take the time to stop and think about what they're seeing and how it applies to the real world rather than just treating it as merely another disposable piece of entertainment, maybe there'd start to be less of it out there.

[CuatroDiablos]

Saw this movie again today and it went from a 9/10 to 10/10 ...after a second view this IMO is the best of the trilogy. A blend of BB and TDK , it's fucking perfect and the ending is so fucking amazing.

Best movie of the year so far.

[dellamorte dellamore]

I can see how someone would think TDK has a low re watch value since it made over 500 mil at the box office in NA and over a billion worldwide .

I'll be seeing TDKR for the 4th time next week, that's the same number of times i saw TDK in the theater back in 2008.

These films never get old because of the high quality concerning all aspects of the production . If anything you appreciate them more each time you see them, Rises is no different .

[The Postmaster General]

Originally Posted by dellamorte dellamore

I can see how someone would think TDK has a low re watch value since it made over 500 mil at the box office in NA and over a billion worldwide .

The Phantom Menace broke all sorts of box office records.

[PR0J3KT M]

Originally Posted by DaMovieMan

Anyone else obsessed with this film's music? I can't seem to listen to anything else these days..

Oh, and, Bane's voice is one of the best things about the Batman trilogy.

Agree on both.
I run to the whole soundtrack. Bump up the speed when "imagine the fire" and "why do we fall" come on.

[The Postmaster General]

What is the track they played when Catwoman is breaking into Daggett's safe?

[psycheoutsteve]

Originally Posted by DaMovieMan

Anyone else obsessed with this film's music? I can't seem to listen to anything else these days..

Oh, and, Bane's voice is one of the best things about the Batman trilogy.

I love both Bane's voice and the soundtrack. Tom Hardy's performance is currently underrated right now and overshadowed by Heath's Joker. As for the soundtrack, my favorite track is "Why do we fall?" Not only is the track epic, but it coincides with what is probably my favorite scene in the movie, Bruce's acsent from the prison.

[poopontheshoes7]

Ya, I fuckin' love Bane and Hardy's performance. Bane has damn near as many awesome lines as The Joker did.

[GodMagnus]

I made a mix of TDK score, fav parts from a few different songs to make a longer track, and I like playing "why do we fall" before it and "rise" after it.
Then again I am a huge score music guy. Got plenty of music from trailers, got my Transformers Trilogy score, among other things.
As for Bane's voice, I really enjoyed it. He had a cocky sound to it that made him even more malevolent.

[MisoGenie]

Originally Posted by CuatroDiablos

I say continue with what Nolan Left , a great lead Actor like JGL and keep the same tone but bring a little more eccentricity to it by having enemies like the Riddler and Penguin.

That'd be perfect. We could have a Nightwing trilogy or something. Doubt that'll happen, because that just doesn't have the name Batman does (as in: it'll draw in less people because of the name alone).

[adamjohnson]

Damn it, I really think I could write this next movie.

[GodMagnus]

Originally Posted by MisoGenie

That'd be perfect. We could have a Nightwing trilogy or something. Doubt that'll happen, because that just doesn't have the name Batman does (as in: it'll draw in less people because of the name alone).

The Dark Knight didn't have Batman in the title. People still figured it out.

[DaMovieMan]

Originally Posted by gyro_44

Yeah, it's great stuff. What's your favorite track? For me it's Gotham's Reckoning, or Rise. Imagine the Fire is awesome as well.

I think Nolan, just like he has a great understanding of themes, story and visuals, has a great understanding of how sound works in a movie. And he and Zimmer are clearly a force to be reckoned with at this point. Inception also had a stunning score.

Yes the sound in Nolan's film plays a huge role and Zimmer is arguably the best working film composer right now. 1+1. It makes perfect sense that they're working together and producing fantastic stuff.

As for the favorites, it's hard to pinpoint. Gotham's Reckoning is probably my favorite thing Zimmer has ever done right now. It always brings me back to the prologue which is my favorite scene from the film. I also really really love The Shadows Betray You, one of the bonus tracks. It's so perfect and the chanting works wonders on it. Rise, Imagine the Fire, Why do we Fall?, Despair ... all so excellent.

[adamjohnson]

Originally Posted by MisoGenie

That'd be perfect. We could have a Nightwing trilogy or something. Doubt that'll happen, because that just doesn't have the name Batman does (as in: it'll draw in less people because of the name alone).

I really believe that it was never Nolan's intent to suggest there would be a Nightwing or Robin movie. My opinion is that the John blake we saw in TDKR WAS ALREADY Batman's 'sidekick.'

He was a tough kid from a broken family, but instead of throwing on a leotard and fighting guys twice his size, he helped Batman more behind the scenes, carried a shotgun, and saved a bunch of orphans.

[castlesave]

Originally Posted by CuatroDiablos

But the Arkham Asylum and City games are a lot more darker than Nolan's TDK , people were already complaining about the tone from this Trilogy I can only Imagine if we get a darker Batman in the future.

I know but it would be fun to get to see killer croc, and other more eccentric less realistic characters

[marilynMONROBOT]

Originally Posted by adamjohnson

I really believe that it was never Nolan's intent to suggest there would be a Nightwing or Robin movie. My opinion is that the John blake we saw in TDKR WAS ALREADY Batman's 'sidekick.'

He was a tough kid from a broken family, but instead of throwing on a leotard and fighting guys twice his size, he helped Batman more behind the scenes, carried a shotgun, and saved a bunch of orphans.

No joke man, I have seen the flick twice and loved it already, but you just gave me a whole new level of appreciation for it. I hadn't thought of it in such a seemingly obvious way yet- that, in retrospect, this WAS essentially the Nightwing "movie" that everyone seems to feel was hinted at. Nolan integrated a sidekick so seamlessly into the fray that we didn't even register it as such upon first viewing. That's fresh.

[bigred760]

Originally Posted by adamjohnson

I really believe that it was never Nolan's intent to suggest there would be a Nightwing or Robin movie. My opinion is that the John blake we saw in TDKR WAS ALREADY Batman's 'sidekick.'

He was a tough kid from a broken family, but instead of throwing on a leotard and fighting guys twice his size, he helped Batman more behind the scenes, carried a shotgun, and saved a bunch of orphans.

I think it was Nolan's intent to use Blake's character as a reminder of Batman Begins in that Batman is a symbol and that anybody can or could be Batman.

I wouldn't necessarily call him a sidekick; he was basically doing the same thing as Gordon, Fox, and Alfred . . . helping Batman in his purpose. I think that his real name was Robin was just a "wink, wink" at the Robin character of the comics.

[adamjohnson]

Originally Posted by bigred760

I think it was Nolan's intent to use Blake's character as a reminder of Batman Begins in that Batman is a symbol and that anybody can or could be Batman.

I wouldn't necessarily call him a sidekick; he was basically doing the same thing as Gordon, Fox, and Alfred . . . helping Batman in his purpose. I think that his real name was Robin was just a "wink, wink" at the Robin character of the comics.

Well, that's not right, actually. Not anybody can be Batman, but Batman can be anybody.

And they were, they were all Batman. A hero could be someone putting a coat over a boys shoulders. Blake doesnt need to put on the suit to do that, he can just run that boys home as best he knows how.

Gotham proved to the Joker that there were still good people when they didnt blow up the ferries. The "Batman could be anybody" line, to me, means that it was GOTHAM became the hero, by rising up against their oppressors. Batman couldnt have beaten Bane and all his henchmen by himself. He was just another citizen of Gotham.

[dellamorte dellamore]

That sounds about right to me, not anybody can do what Wayne did as Batman but it wasn't important who did these things but the fact that someone was willing to do them and how a new "hero" will always rise to the occasion and not all of them wll be wearing a mask.

I'm inclined to believe that Nolan wasn't looking to lead in to another series , i think he definitely ended this tale, this series, with that last image and the montage that preceded it .

I see Blake as becoming the man Alfred always pleaded with Wayne to become, they don't need his body but his resources, his knowledge . He's going to carry on the Wayne legacy without an alter ego and from a place of reconcilliation because he already has come to terms with his parent's death

[misbehave]

I've just watch it again for the 2nd time, on a non-IMAX screen this time.
I love it more and more after this 2nd viewing.
And Michael Caine's performance certainly deserve some kind of award (if not Oscar) as best supporting actor. I wish to see him getting some recognition for his great performance.

[adamjohnson]

Originally Posted by dellamorte dellamore

That sounds about right to me, not anybody can do what Wayne did as Batman but it wasn't important who did these things but the fact that someone was willing to do them and how a new "hero" will always rise to the occasion and not all of them wll be wearing a mask.

I'm inclined to believe that Nolan wasn't looking to lead in to another series , i think he definitely ended this tale, this series, with that last image and the montage that preceded it .

I see Blake as becoming the man Alfred always pleaded with Wayne to become, they don't need his body but his resources, his knowledge . He's going to carry on the Wayne legacy without an alter ego and from a place of reconcilliation because he already has come to terms with his parent's death

Yeah. Which i ssomething I always hated about the Nolan Bruce Wayne.

In the comics - and, notable, in one of my favorite books "War on Crime", Bruce uses his money and influence to create jobs in a bad neighborhood, thus ending a history of crime in that area, because Bruce Wayne is someone that can do a lot of good all on his own.

[psycheoutsteve]

Originally Posted by adamjohnson

Well, that's not right, actually. Not anybody can be Batman, but Batman can be anybody.

And they were, they were all Batman. A hero could be someone putting a coat over a boys shoulders. Blake doesnt need to put on the suit to do that, he can just run that boys home as best he knows how.

Gotham proved to the Joker that there were still good people when they didnt blow up the ferries. The "Batman could be anybody" line, to me, means that it was GOTHAM became the hero, by rising up against their oppressors. Batman couldnt have beaten Bane and all his henchmen by himself. He was just another citizen of Gotham.

I think you're partly right in the vein that to be Batman means to have a certain disposition or set of skills, but I also believe that the skills required to be such a symbol can be learned. Bruce learned them, so could Blake. To argue over things like Blake not having the potential to be as good a fighter as Bruce is just arguing over minutia. You don't have to climb a mountain in the Himalayas and train with a secret society of ninjas to learn the skills that make a good fighter. Those plot elements are part of Bruce Wayne's personal journey, which of course would differ greatly from Blake's own. However, just because their paths differ doesn't mean that Blake would be forced into using his resources instead of dressing up as a crime-fighting alter ego like Batman.

My point is, you seem to have your own expectations as to the specific skills and background that Batman should possess, but we're not talking about your definitive interpretation of Batman, we're talking about Nolan's. My guess is that you didn't even think that he'd bring Robin into the mix in this last movie, but it's pretty clear to me that he intended for the character to have a crime fighting alter ego like Batman.

The reason I believe this is because he goes out of his way to mention that Blake is Robin. I mean, if Blake was just going to be some original character that just helped orphans, why would Nolan even bother mentioning that his real name was Robin? He joined the police to fight crime and he resigned from the force because fighting crime according to the law felt like wearing shackles to him. What next step do you expect a character like that to take in this movie? Hmmm...I don't like fighting crime under the police, but I hate injustice...I think I'll just watch over a bunch of orphans. No, just no.

I guarantee you that at least 90 percent of the audiences that have seen this movie know exactly what the last shot of the movie means for Robin. He's taking Bruce's place, whether it's as Batman or another alter ego.

[The Postmaster General]

Blake is actually thinking, "I'm gonna make a fortune on ebay!!!!"