#761  
Old 08-06-2012, 01:30 AM
I guess you could say Nolan went somewhat ambiguous with the ending, you can easily see Blake becoming Batman ( or Robin or Nightwing ) or you could see him serving the people of Gotham without resorting to becoming a creature of the night. He could assist the police and law enforcement in other ways besides the vigilante route or he could do both .

After the events in TDKR i don't think there would be a pressing need for someone like a Batman to stalk the alleyways once again, at least not right away. In the film Gotham was experiencing an unprecedented time period of peace that was only shattered after Bane came on the scene.

It's possible Nolan left the trilogy in a manner that it could be left as such and it would still be satisfying with a clear denoument or it can be continued in some fashion with Blake becoming a masked crime fighter, that's why it's so genius.

We now know there will be a reboot, so who knows if they continue with how TDKR ended or just allow someone to create an entirely different Batman world, i'm going with the latter.
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  #762  
Old 08-06-2012, 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dellamorte dellamore View Post

We now know there will be a reboot, so who knows if they continue with how TDKR ended or just allow someone to create an entirely different Batman world, i'm going with the latter.
I'm ready for a different Batman world. Some fans are acting like we will either get Nolan's dark realistic version, or Schumachers over the top, neon version. All I know is that I would have rather seen a Bane with the tube going right into the back of his head, and a Ra's Al Ghul that is truly immortal. That's not to say I didn't think Nolan's Batman movies weren't superb, but I'm excited for a change up.
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  #763  
Old 08-06-2012, 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dellamorte dellamore View Post
I guess you could say Nolan went somewhat ambiguous with the ending, you can easily see Blake becoming Batman ( or Robin or Nightwing ) or you could see him serving the people of Gotham without resorting to becoming a creature of the night. He could assist the police and law enforcement in other ways besides the vigilante route or he could do both .

After the events in TDKR i don't think there would be a pressing need for someone like a Batman to stalk the alleyways once again, at least not right away. In the film Gotham was experiencing an unprecedented time period of peace that was only shattered after Bane came on the scene.

It's possible Nolan left the trilogy in a manner that it could be left as such and it would still be satisfying with a clear denoument or it can be continued in some fashion with Blake becoming a masked crime fighter, that's why it's so genius.

We now know there will be a reboot, so who knows if they continue with how TDKR ended or just allow someone to create an entirely different Batman world, i'm going with the latter.
Over the 8 years that Batman was away things appeared to get better in Gotham, but before Bane even showed up the city still had its fair share of problems. Nolan touched on the effects of job loss and class inequality in TDKR. Both of those elements were occuring and worsening without the help of Bane. Gotham will always need someone to watch over it.

I just don't see how Robin could end up doing anything else other than donning a suit and creating an alter ego after the end of TDKR. Batman even tells him to wear a mask to protect his loved ones in the film. This isn't Inception, it's pretty clear to me what was intended for the character.

Last edited by psycheoutsteve; 08-06-2012 at 05:50 PM..
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  #764  
Old 08-06-2012, 07:20 PM
I'm just as excited for the prospective reboot as I was for Rises itself. The pedigree Nolan has given this icon can attract all sorts of talent from all sorts of backgrounds and acclaim. I can't wait to see what kind of cast and crew team up to take over the reigns.
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  #765  
Old 08-06-2012, 10:48 PM
Couple of thoughts:

before I saw TDKR, people who know me, in life, were all telling me the same thing: "dude, you're going to love the ending of this movie." I got that from people whose taste I trust. They were right. One of the things I really liked about the way TDKR ended was that everyone could take out of it exactly what they wanted to believe:

-If you wanted to believe that Blake would be the "hero without a mask" you could believe that. There's no direct evidence that contradicts him going down that road, although, IMHO, its strongly implied that he won't.

-if you wanted to believe that Blake would replace Bruce as Batman, you could believe that.

-if you wanted to believe (as I do) that Blake would become Robin/Nightwing, and that Bruce would come back and take up the mantle of Batman, in a very different Bat-verse (with Selina at his side) you could believe that. Personally, this is the way I chose, because Blake does need to be trained, and if TDKR taught Bruce anything, its that Gotham still needs him in the cape and cowl. In other words, I don't think Bruce "retired", I think he took a vacation. However, that is just me, and that's how I read it, your mileage may vary.

As for what direction the Bat-verse goes post-Nolan, I have some thoughts. The reason why Nolan's Bat-verse works, and why it will be very hard to compete with for future generations, is that it had its own distinctive style, Its own flavor. The best incarnations of Batman are the ones that stay true to what Kane & Finger created, while adding their own perspective. The schumacher Batman films wiffed badly. Nolan managed to create a world that connected with Detective Comics #27. There were so many scenes in the Nolan Batman that were lifted straight from the books, with little to no alteration.

Staying to that point, Batman's library of top stories is HUGE. Way bigger than any other hero in comics. (even for a brand like the x-men, you rattle off the five best stories, and then, there's a pause. That's the result of the fact that for the better part of the last thirty years, the x-books have been garbage. Batman doesn't have a "garbage gap" like that). There's so much there to adapt, Nolan only scratched the surface. And, for TDKR, the stories he chose to adapt are not considered classics. Nolan adapted B-level Batman stories. The ones I saw referenced the most often:



and:



I saw tons of No Man's Land in TDKR, and that book is squarely a B-quality bat-book. Batman has tons better stories over the years, including the huge recently published hit court of owls crossover (if AJ thinks its good, then you know it is), there is plenty of source material left to draw on that film going audiences haven't had a wiff of. What about a big screen version of the Long Halloween? How about HUSH? There are possibilities.

As for a specific direction I'd like, here's the thing. I'd like to see Batman get back to his roots, even further than than the Nolan-verse Bat. The comics, IMHO, have done it right for seventy years, and I'd want that Batman. The one whose a detective. The one who is a super-genius. The one who trains his whole life to fight crime, rather than seven years. The one who, despite being a loner, always seems to have an apprentice. I loved Nolan's take on the character, but I agree with the poster above: I want an immortal Ra's Al Ghul, a Bane with tubes on the back of his head. I'd want a Joker whose first story includes Harley Quinn. Fast fact: ask batman fans to rank their favorite bat-villians, and the Joker always wins by a landslide, #2 is always Ra's, but third and fourth are a close race between two-face and Harley. Harley is rampantly popular amongst the fans, she may be the most popular comic book character to never have been in a movie. I also want a Joker who shoots Barbara through the back. I want Oracle, and I want Nightwing. Obviously, I don't want all of that in one film, but the tone I'd be going for is a Batman that is at the same time very dark, but who also has the crime fighting boot kicking fun that marked the avengers.

My idea would be to do a movie called "the knights of Neo-Gotham", That shows how a small group of people band together to fight for the city they live in, that shows Batman as an odd kind of inspiration. You'd obviously start with Batman, and then, as his legend grows, show how the city both grants him allies and enemies. I haven't really thought out this idea all the way, and it shows, but there are so many stories, and so many ideas that make Batman unique in comics. Nolan, IMHO, has just scratched the surface.
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  #766  
Old 08-07-2012, 12:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by soda View Post
Couple of thoughts:

before I saw TDKR, people who know me, in life, were all telling me the same thing: "dude, you're going to love the ending of this movie." I got that from people whose taste I trust. They were right. One of the things I really liked about the way TDKR ended was that everyone could take out of it exactly what they wanted to believe:

-If you wanted to believe that Blake would be the "hero without a mask" you could believe that. There's no direct evidence that contradicts him going down that road, although, IMHO, its strongly implied that he won't.

-if you wanted to believe that Blake would replace Bruce as Batman, you could believe that.

-if you wanted to believe (as I do) that Blake would become Robin/Nightwing, and that Bruce would come back and take up the mantle of Batman, in a very different Bat-verse (with Selina at his side) you could believe that. Personally, this is the way I chose, because Blake does need to be trained, and if TDKR taught Bruce anything, its that Gotham still needs him in the cape and cowl. In other words, I don't think Bruce "retired", I think he took a vacation. However, that is just me, and that's how I read it, your mileage may vary.

As for what direction the Bat-verse goes post-Nolan, I have some thoughts. The reason why Nolan's Bat-verse works, and why it will be very hard to compete with for future generations, is that it had its own distinctive style, Its own flavor. The best incarnations of Batman are the ones that stay true to what Kane & Finger created, while adding their own perspective. The schumacher Batman films wiffed badly. Nolan managed to create a world that connected with Detective Comics #27. There were so many scenes in the Nolan Batman that were lifted straight from the books, with little to no alteration.

Staying to that point, Batman's library of top stories is HUGE. Way bigger than any other hero in comics. (even for a brand like the x-men, you rattle off the five best stories, and then, there's a pause. That's the result of the fact that for the better part of the last thirty years, the x-books have been garbage. Batman doesn't have a "garbage gap" like that). There's so much there to adapt, Nolan only scratched the surface. And, for TDKR, the stories he chose to adapt are not considered classics. Nolan adapted B-level Batman stories. The ones I saw referenced the most often:



and:



I saw tons of No Man's Land in TDKR, and that book is squarely a B-quality bat-book. Batman has tons better stories over the years, including the huge recently published hit court of owls crossover (if AJ thinks its good, then you know it is), there is plenty of source material left to draw on that film going audiences haven't had a wiff of. What about a big screen version of the Long Halloween? How about HUSH? There are possibilities.

As for a specific direction I'd like, here's the thing. I'd like to see Batman get back to his roots, even further than than the Nolan-verse Bat. The comics, IMHO, have done it right for seventy years, and I'd want that Batman. The one whose a detective. The one who is a super-genius. The one who trains his whole life to fight crime, rather than seven years. The one who, despite being a loner, always seems to have an apprentice. I loved Nolan's take on the character, but I agree with the poster above: I want an immortal Ra's Al Ghul, a Bane with tubes on the back of his head. I'd want a Joker whose first story includes Harley Quinn. Fast fact: ask batman fans to rank their favorite bat-villians, and the Joker always wins by a landslide, #2 is always Ra's, but third and fourth are a close race between two-face and Harley. Harley is rampantly popular amongst the fans, she may be the most popular comic book character to never have been in a movie. I also want a Joker who shoots Barbara through the back. I want Oracle, and I want Nightwing. Obviously, I don't want all of that in one film, but the tone I'd be going for is a Batman that is at the same time very dark, but who also has the crime fighting boot kicking fun that marked the avengers.

My idea would be to do a movie called "the knights of Neo-Gotham", That shows how a small group of people band together to fight for the city they live in, that shows Batman as an odd kind of inspiration. You'd obviously start with Batman, and then, as his legend grows, show how the city both grants him allies and enemies. I haven't really thought out this idea all the way, and it shows, but there are so many stories, and so many ideas that make Batman unique in comics. Nolan, IMHO, has just scratched the surface.
I saw tons of No Man's Land in it, and I actually thought I'd see it in TDK with the narrows all being driven mad.

The question for me now is, would things be able to get back together? Would Gotham ever be able to recover? Every criminal - every single one - is walking the streets and there is STILL very little escape for the citizens.

Gotham is now very far from the "realistic" version Goth-cago that we saw in TDK. And it can lead in very well to an Arkham city type of location.

I mean, an entire city of lawlessness with Batman around to keep it going? Who wouldnt want to see that film.

And, by the way, Bruce Wayne did retire to wherever-in-europe, but lets be real - alot of people know he's batman. And while he may want to be retired, to quote Godfather, he can always be pulled back in.

And with his identity seemingly public knowledge, that in a way could open up doors to Batman, Inc., where Bruce trains other vigilantes - just like John Blake - to take Batman global.

There's lots of fun possibilities here, most notably, I think, to continue the franchise without rebooting and having all that backstory remain canon.
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  #767  
Old 08-07-2012, 01:54 AM


Hmmmmmmmm.
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  #768  
Old 08-07-2012, 12:57 PM
In an interview with GQ - Costume Designer Lindy Hemming talks about a deleted scene that gave us back story on Bane and his mask - http://wp.me/p2CCWq-1v2
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  #769  
Old 08-07-2012, 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by P1NSTR1PEZ View Post
In an interview with GQ - Costume Designer Lindy Hemming talks about a deleted scene that gave us back story on Bane and his mask - http://wp.me/p2CCWq-1v2

they shoulda included that scene.
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  #770  
Old 08-07-2012, 04:16 PM
Just came here to post about the deleted scene - that sounds awesome. Nolan shoulda tried to keep that. Hopefully we'll at least see it at some point.....
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  #771  
Old 08-07-2012, 08:03 PM
Yeah, I think TDKR is a great film, but this movie deserves an extended cut more-so than any other Nolan movie. It's his only movie that really feels like stuff is missing. I really hope Nolan goes against his standard practice and released an extended edition of this on BluRay... or IMAX.
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  #772  
Old 08-08-2012, 09:05 PM
I finally saw it. I give it 8/10. Could have been cut like 15 mins. I really dont have any complaints. Just a good movie and a great ending. Well done, sir.
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  #773  
Old 08-09-2012, 06:08 PM
I just saw the movie for the second time. I liked it even better then my first time! (it did help to have a better seat this time) Great suspence, very emotional, great conclusion
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  #774  
Old 08-12-2012, 06:28 AM
Just saw it for the third time, in Imax... and I love that the more I see it the more intricate the plot gets and the more I can fully see the genius of this movie.

And I said it from the get go, the ending was just so perfect. It felt like a great Series Finale to a show I have loved since the series premiere! It was just very satisfying!

I hope they keep the Imax scenes in tact for the Blu Ray release, unlike how they fucked Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol
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  #775  
Old 08-12-2012, 07:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyNet View Post
Just saw it for the third time, in Imax... and I love that the more I see it the more intricate the plot gets and the more I can fully see the genius of this movie.

And I said it from the get go, the ending was just so perfect. It felt like a great Series Finale to a show I have loved since the series premiere! It was just very satisfying!

I hope they keep the Imax scenes in tact for the Blu Ray release, unlike how they fucked Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol
I saw it last night for the third time as well... and it just keeps getting better and better. I loved it the first time I saw it, but after seeing it two more everything just fits so well. Still a 10/10 for me.
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  #776  
Old 08-13-2012, 02:46 PM
Maybe someday when they decide to reboot this, he will be old enough to take a part:

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  #777  
Old 08-16-2012, 09:41 AM
Joseph Gordon-Levitt talks Spoilers for The Dark Knight Rises - http://wp.me/p2CCWq-1Ft
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  #778  
Old 08-19-2012, 09:20 AM
Finally saw the movie a day ago, review with spoilers.



8/10 (BB-9/10) (TDK-10/10)

This was a great movie, but Nolan's vision has run it's course, especially for the main character. And it did run a little long in some places, and not long enough in others.
Bane. I couldn't get enough of him. He was done perfectly. I was just waiting for scenes with him that didn't include him. I even liked that they dropped the "Venom" portion of his comic book character, and just made him a bad a55 without any assistance.
Catwoman. She was pretty good, I kind of missed the "cat" aspects of her character. But a perfect performance by Hathaway.
Blake. Second best part of the movie behind Bane. I would LOVE a Nightwing spinoff.
Batman. What was really poorly done which I would of loved was him retraining himself in the prison more detailed than just some pushups, pullups, and a jump. This is where I wish Nolan borrowed a bit more from the Knightfall comics, have a gauntlet of fighting, etc. If he extended this scene to cut say, Alfred scenes which were a bit redundant and boring, it would of been an improvement. The rest of his character was pretty much par for the course. Good, but we've seen it all before. And I won't miss the raspy voice in the reboot.
Talia. This was a total miscast. I didn't buy her as a corporate giant, I didn't buy her as a damsel in distress, or a psycopathic revenge driven madwoman. Plus her evil character seemed pretty much pried into the movie just like Venom was in Spiderman. By the time she was revealed, the movie seemed rushed. And her sleeping with Wayne early on didn't make any sense to me. No chemistry, no development, I just didn't buy it.
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  #779  
Old 08-19-2012, 01:57 PM

Finally saw this in IMAX (3rd time seeing it)
Soooo damn beautiful seeing this on a 6 story screen.

Still though, my main complaint is that there was too many characters and the runtime could of been clocked down by like 10 to 15 minutes. Oh and we should of had more Batman too

Despite all of those complaints, Nolan nailed it out of the park and Hardy was brilliant as Bane esp during the first fight between Batman and him
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  #780  
Old 08-20-2012, 11:46 PM

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  #781  
Old 08-21-2012, 03:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by P1NSTR1PEZ View Post
Joseph Gordon-Levitt talks Spoilers for The Dark Knight Rises - http://wp.me/p2CCWq-1Ft
Well, I think it is a fact that he is now Officially the Unofficial Robin/NightWing.
Just as Heath Ledger will forever be the Joker, Christian Bale will forever be Bruce Wayne and Michael Caine will forever be Alfred after this great trilogy.

People are going to expect his NightWing/Robin movie in a couple of years for sure and WB will be unwise to not cash in on this audience expectation.
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  #782  
Old 08-21-2012, 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamjohnson View Post

Fantastic.
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  #783  
Old 08-22-2012, 04:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamjohnson View Post

This does a fantastic job at succinctly illustrating how, on a thematic level, questions raised in TDK are answered in TDKR
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  #784  
Old 08-23-2012, 10:00 PM
Couldn't resist buying this book today:

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  #785  
Old 08-23-2012, 11:02 PM
How TDKR should have ended...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLyoo...ayer_embedded#!
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  #786  
Old 08-24-2012, 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jig Saw 123 View Post

Hahaha..it was funny.
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  #787  
Old 08-28-2012, 06:03 PM
I know I'm going to be the minority, but oh well.

I love Nolan, and his movies (The Prestige is my favorite). I just dont see what some of you see in this movie. Some of you are blind to the fact that this movie had many plot holes, poor pacing, and just flat out stupid story decisions.

First off, people are talking about Old Batman, and how it's the end of his cycle. Uhhhh, he was Batman maybe what? 1 year? He became Batman in Begins, and defeated Scarecrow and Rahz. Then right after we get TDK, where he takes out the Joker (errr arrests). I'm just geusstimating that was a one year time frame from both of those movies, hell I'll give you 2 years (stretching). Then he takes an EIGHT year long hiatus, and his body is that jacked up?? WTF! Professional football players/Boxers/MMA fighters last longer than that. He was BARELY Batman, so why would he pass the torch so soon? stupid.

Alfred leaving was retarded. Remember in Batman Begins? "You still haven't given up on me have you?" Alfred's response "NEVER!" Oh wait, except in this movie I'll ditch you, then magically appear back in at the end.....dumb. The Talia twist was stupid, and could be seen from a mile away. Bane was cool, but then was turned into a normal henchman at the end of the film when Batman beat the crap out of him (how?) and was just abruptly shot by catwoman on the batpod. He was thrown away completely.

Then the most important part, Batman was BARELY in the freaking movie. He shows up after about 40-50 minutes, shoots a gun once, it breaks, then rides his batpod around for awhile running from police, then boom over. Then comes the very apparently choreographed fight scene with him and Catwoman. I'm sorry it looks extremely slow in this one. But hey Begins you couldn't see shit. During all this action, the music mix is SO HIGH you can barely hear the dialogue at times. Bottom line, the first time we finally see Batman, he barely does anything, then poof, he's gone for awhile again.

Then somehow when Gordon gets captured, he knows that it's Bane, even though his name was never mentioned.......plot hole. And how Blake knows Bruce is Batman is SOOOOO fucking stupid, and makes no sense. So what then, every orphan who puts on a fake face will know he's Batman? That's just lazy right there, and unnecessary.

Then we get to Batman fighting Bane, finally something cool! Even though the Subway scene getting to him was pretty flat. So then Bruce is broken and now he's in a prison where he should be retraining among other things to work on how he will beat a foe such as Bane, but nope...we get him doing push ups and sit ups, while falling over and over trying to get out. Then when he finally gets out, he magically finds a way back to Gotham (Remember, he's got no money now too), and just appear out of nowhere near Catwoman.........ugh come on! Now he fights Bane again the SAME exact way as he did before, but this time manages to kick his ass......ugh ok.

I have many many other gripes with this movie such as the ridiculous way he somehow survives the nuke at the end. And why did they have to turn this into a ticking time bomb story line? We already had that in Batman Begins, did we really need it again? Talia dies so poorly in the truck (acting wise as well), yet a previously injured Gordon rolls out just fine. I'm sorry Nolan fanboys the Robin thing was just stupid. Why not Dick, or Jason, or something other than Robin??

Overall the movie was just overbloated with subplots and story lines that were completely unnecessary. I was so disappointed when I saw this. After I saw TDK i wanted to see it again like right after. After I saw this movie, I felt it would be a chore to watch it again, but I did, and it didn't get any better. I have many other gripes, but don't feel like writing too much more.


I'd like to close again saying I'm not a Nolan hater, nor a Marvel fanboy. I love Nolan's work, and while I didn't like this movie, it was still shot extremely well, the acting was great, and the special fx were top notch. But I think a lot of people are fooling themselves. This movie could have been SO much more, and that's what I was doing while watching it was seeing the potential, and what could have been done differently.

Batman Begins 9/10, TDK 9/10, TDKR 6/10
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  #788  
Old 08-28-2012, 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by halflife View Post
I know I'm going to be the minority, but oh well.

I love Nolan, and his movies (The Prestige is my favorite). I just dont see what some of you see in this movie. Some of you are blind to the fact that this movie had many plot holes, poor pacing, and just flat out stupid story decisions.

First off, people are talking about Old Batman, and how it's the end of his cycle. Uhhhh, he was Batman maybe what? 1 year? He became Batman in Begins, and defeated Scarecrow and Rahz. Then right after we get TDK, where he takes out the Joker (errr arrests). I'm just geusstimating that was a one year time frame from both of those movies, hell I'll give you 2 years (stretching). Then he takes an EIGHT year long hiatus, and his body is that jacked up?? WTF! Professional football players/Boxers/MMA fighters last longer than that. He was BARELY Batman, so why would he pass the torch so soon? stupid.

Alfred leaving was retarded. Remember in Batman Begins? "You still haven't given up on me have you?" Alfred's response "NEVER!" Oh wait, except in this movie I'll ditch you, then magically appear back in at the end.....dumb. The Talia twist was stupid, and could be seen from a mile away. Bane was cool, but then was turned into a normal henchman at the end of the film when Batman beat the crap out of him (how?) and was just abruptly shot by catwoman on the batpod. He was thrown away completely.

Then the most important part, Batman was BARELY in the freaking movie. He shows up after about 40-50 minutes, shoots a gun once, it breaks, then rides his batpod around for awhile running from police, then boom over. Then comes the very apparently choreographed fight scene with him and Catwoman. I'm sorry it looks extremely slow in this one. But hey Begins you couldn't see shit. During all this action, the music mix is SO HIGH you can barely hear the dialogue at times. Bottom line, the first time we finally see Batman, he barely does anything, then poof, he's gone for awhile again.

Then somehow when Gordon gets captured, he knows that it's Bane, even though his name was never mentioned.......plot hole. And how Blake knows Bruce is Batman is SOOOOO fucking stupid, and makes no sense. So what then, every orphan who puts on a fake face will know he's Batman? That's just lazy right there, and unnecessary.

Then we get to Batman fighting Bane, finally something cool! Even though the Subway scene getting to him was pretty flat. So then Bruce is broken and now he's in a prison where he should be retraining among other things to work on how he will beat a foe such as Bane, but nope...we get him doing push ups and sit ups, while falling over and over trying to get out. Then when he finally gets out, he magically finds a way back to Gotham (Remember, he's got no money now too), and just appear out of nowhere near Catwoman.........ugh come on! Now he fights Bane again the SAME exact way as he did before, but this time manages to kick his ass......ugh ok.

I have many many other gripes with this movie such as the ridiculous way he somehow survives the nuke at the end. And why did they have to turn this into a ticking time bomb story line? We already had that in Batman Begins, did we really need it again? Talia dies so poorly in the truck (acting wise as well), yet a previously injured Gordon rolls out just fine. I'm sorry Nolan fanboys the Robin thing was just stupid. Why not Dick, or Jason, or something other than Robin??

Overall the movie was just overbloated with subplots and story lines that were completely unnecessary. I was so disappointed when I saw this. After I saw TDK i wanted to see it again like right after. After I saw this movie, I felt it would be a chore to watch it again, but I did, and it didn't get any better. I have many other gripes, but don't feel like writing too much more.


I'd like to close again saying I'm not a Nolan hater, nor a Marvel fanboy. I love Nolan's work, and while I didn't like this movie, it was still shot extremely well, the acting was great, and the special fx were top notch. But I think a lot of people are fooling themselves. This movie could have been SO much more, and that's what I was doing while watching it was seeing the potential, and what could have been done differently.

Batman Begins 9/10, TDK 9/10, TDKR 6/10
I agree with many of your points. I think people call this a masterpiece because they've been so blinded by Nolan's 'greatness' that they think it's fundamentally impossible for him to make a mistake. The Dark Knight Rises is his mistake. I myself was completely excited for its release, I bought my IMAX tickets for the midnight showing a full month in advance and I even saw it twice just to see if a second viewing would help, but all it did was make me like John Blake slightly more. Otherwise, as you mentioned, the story suffers greatly from poor pacing and plot holes. Now, people will say these plot holes require the suspension of disbelief, but I say that's not an excusable conclusion to draw when the movie clearly just suffers from unexplainable coincidences. For instance, as you said, how does Gordon know about Bane? His name is never mentioned during his brief kidnapping and he automatically says he has an army when he's dozing off when he's being carried through the sewers? The Alfred issue I feel was put in the story because they didn't know what else to do with the character during the five month recovering period for Bruce so, instead, they just had Alfred completely disappear.

In regards to how Bruce got back to Gotham, fans in particular will say he's Batman, he doesn't need a 'boring' explanation for how he does what he does. This would fly well in the Burton' movies, but when Nolan has taken the liberty of explaining how Bruce gets back and forth to Gotham, twice, in the previous two movies, you have to explain how he does it here--especially when Gotham is on heavy lockdown.

I find it humorous that this movie shares the most similarities to typical comic book movies--especially with even The Avengers. But, thankfully it's over, and perhaps five or so years down the line we'll see a much different approach to Batman.
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  #789  
Old 08-28-2012, 07:43 PM
I think the thing about how Wayne got back to Gotham is a bit overblown

There is no time frame for when he got back to Gotham, was there? Who is to say that it wasn't 3 or 4 or 5 days later??

Also, after Bane left Wayne at that prison, within a few scenes, he was back in Gotham.

Was there something I am missing?
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  #790  
Old 08-28-2012, 09:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyNet View Post
I think the thing about how Wayne got back to Gotham is a bit overblown

There is no time frame for when he got back to Gotham, was there? Who is to say that it wasn't 3 or 4 or 5 days later??

Also, after Bane left Wayne at that prison, within a few scenes, he was back in Gotham.

Was there something I am missing?
Before Bruce 'rises' from the prison, Lucius concludes they have about 18 hrs or so until the bomb goes off. Bruce was in that prison for five months. When Bane defeats him, he wakes up there, so, I'm assuming Miranda assisted Bane and his men back and forth from the prison to Gotham with her resources and Wayne Enterprises now under her belt.
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  #791  
Old 08-28-2012, 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jig Saw 123 View Post
Before Bruce 'rises' from the prison, Lucius concludes they have about 18 hrs or so until the bomb goes off. Bruce was in that prison for five months. When Bane defeats him, he wakes up there, so, I'm assuming Miranda assisted Bane and his men back and forth from the prison to Gotham with her resources and Wayne Enterprises now under her belt.
No man....he says 23 days.

Talk about paying attention.
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  #792  
Old 08-29-2012, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by CuatroDiablos View Post
No man....he says 23 days.

Talk about paying attention.
I know he did not say that many days between then and when Bruce gets back to Gotham because by the time Bruce arrives in Gotham, the bomb has 11 hrs. until it detonates...
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  #793  
Old 08-29-2012, 09:36 AM
Yeah he did , I just saw it on a bootleg , what where you expecting to have a countdown written on screen?
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  #794  
Old 08-29-2012, 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jig Saw 123 View Post
I know he did not say that many days between then and when Bruce gets back to Gotham because by the time Bruce arrives in Gotham, the bomb has 11 hrs. until it detonates...
What makes you think he arrived only 11 hours before the bomb was set to detonate?..did you even see the ending ? he had time to fix the autopilot , leave John Blake a bag with coordinates to the batcave, leave the mansion to the orphan kids , find a way for Selina to start all over with a "clean slate" .....he clearly arrived on Gotham way before meeting Selina. I never thought this movie would be so complicated for some , I guess Nolan needs to do a better job explaining because some people can't fill those scenes for themselves.
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  #795  
Old 08-29-2012, 10:07 AM
Quote:
Some of you are blind to the fact that this movie had many plot holes, poor pacing, and just flat out stupid story decisions.
Quote:
I think people call this a masterpiece because they've been so blinded by Nolan's 'greatness' that they think it's fundamentally impossible for him to make a mistake.
I didn't like the ticking time bomb either. Or Talia's twist. People who did probably aren't blindly worshiping at the alter of a false god, they're just posters who didn't have a problem with the story choices I had a problem with. The narrative isn't as exciting when you say it like that, but it's probably truer.

Quote:
Then somehow when Gordon gets captured, he knows that it's Bane, even though his name was never mentioned.......plot hole.
Bane himself revealed exposition along the lines of nobody knew who I was until I put on the mask. He is apparently a notorious terrorist with a notorious appearance.

Quote:
Then he takes an EIGHT year long hiatus, and his body is that jacked up?? WTF! Professional football players/Boxers/MMA fighters last longer than that.
Pro football players and boxers and mma fighters are routinely jacked up, aren't they? His specific injuries apparently resulted from events at the end of the previous movie, such as the gun shot. I didn't notice the details until I read about it on this messageboard. There's a lot of continuity that went over my head.
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  #796  
Old 08-29-2012, 10:42 AM
He also survived a fall that literally killed another person that did the exact same thing.

I'd say his injuries are pretty consistent with a guy who goes out and gets beat up night after night for a couple of years. But lets not forget the decade or so of training as well.

But physical injury isnt why Batman hung up the cowl, it was emotional. Rachel died and he was distraught, he was waiting for another threat so his life had a purpose in her absence, and was anxious for death to relieve him of this pain and responsibility.
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  #797  
Old 08-29-2012, 10:53 AM
I need to see this a second time. I agree on some of the plot holes and pacing but I HAVE to believe Nolan wouldn't be that sloppy. I need to watch a second time, completely dissecting it.

Some of the continuity brought up in this thread, and even some of the questions, are things I definitely didn't notice the first time.
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  #798  
Old 08-29-2012, 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CuatroDiablos View Post
Yeah he did , I just saw it on a bootleg , what where you expecting to have a countdown written on screen?
Nolan did have a countdown on screen. On the tv in the Pit there's a timer counting how many days it's been since Bane took control of Gotham.

I don't understand why the viewers who enjoyed the film are "blind" to its flaws. Apparently if you embrace the movie you're a Nolan fanboy. Well I thought it was great and I think Inception was weak and I hated the Prestige.

As a fan of the movie, I can respect the fact that some people didn't like it. It's cool! But why is it so hard for some of you to accept the fact that we did enjoy the movie? Why must we be dismissed as Nolan fanboys that are blind to anything? We liked the movie, get over it!

Last edited by DaveyJoeG; 08-29-2012 at 11:23 AM..
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  #799  
Old 08-29-2012, 11:57 AM
And of course there are silly moments in Rises, as there were silly moments in the batman trilogy as a whole. We're more used to the atmosphere of the trilogy than we're probably aware of. Of all the complaints and believability issues posted in this thread, I don't think I have seen a single person point out how silly it is that Bruce Wayne donned a skimask in a doctor's office and repelled down to another patient's room and nobody noticed the guy since the whole area was pretty well lit - in the parking lot, in the lobby, across the way, in the rooms adjacent. And I'm sure there are plenty of scenes where Batman appears out of nowhere despite there being no conceivable way for him to ninja his way into the hidden corner without anybody noticing. Most fans of the trilogy are used to it, and there's a compromise between laboriously sweating the small stuff and shooting something powerful or exciting for the sake of being cinematic (for example, there is probably an easier way to fake the good doctor's death than Bane's elaborate opening scene, but I liked the way it was staged and I prefer that ingenuity over stark efficient believability). I'm sure the cuts to this movie are causing some people to have issues with the pacing - it has been confirmed that Nolan's original cut was over an hour longer than the theatrical release, but a few of these complaints feel like things we should be used to by now. I'm still surprised people didn't want to accept Bruce Wayne traveling from one place to another place. The world is not small enough for a man like Bruce Wayne to hide / the entire trilogy has been filled with explanations for various improbable travels / as another poster pointed out, it would be a plot hole if Bruce suddenly showed up on another planet, because there's no precedence for that, when there is so much precedence for this. It's too bad some fans didn't enjoy the movie and weren't involved in the experience, but it's also pretty plain when somebody wasn't engaged with the movie and sat at odds with it, the staging, the cinematic choices, un-seduced by Rises and pointing out moles and unsymmetrical features as if those imperfections were responsible - when mostly you're just not vibing with the movie.
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  #800  
Old 08-29-2012, 12:23 PM
I agree that TDKR has no new flaws that can't be found in the previous films of the franchise. In fact in some ways it's the best of trilogy. TDKR has the strongest and most exciting final act of the trilogy, whereas the first two films peaked somewhere in the 2nd act. TDKR does feel more rushed, and has the worst editing of the trilogy, and I think a lot of issues would be alleviated with a longer cut of the film.

It's on par with the other two films. Batman Begins wasn't perfect, but coming off of Batman and Robin it seemed like a masterpiece. The Dark Knight wasn't perfect, but Ledger's performance elevated it and made people ignore its flaws. TDKR isn't perfect, but the hype and anticipation building off of the second film lead to inevitable disappointment for some viewers.

It just seems like a lot of nitpicks are being cited as deal-breakers here. Narratively, visually, and thematically TDKR is just as strong if not stronger than a film like the Avengers. But I'm not seeing anything close to level of nitpicking on the Avengers, it seems like people are able to relax and enjoy themselves for that movie while they want to pick TDKR apart. I think Nolan's biggest mistake was setting the bar too high in his own franchise.

I agree with Shini that sometimes people just don't vibe with a movie. It can be technically flawless but if it doesn't suck you in, compel you and invest you in the story then it's all pointless. Plot holes be damned! I've overlooked many plot holes for the sake of mise-en-scene for countless films, independent and blockbuster. If a movie is entertaining enough it doesn't matter what rules it breaks. Some film movements like the French New Wave revolve around and embrace the breaking of cinematic rules. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I hated Breathless but loved Pierrot le Fou. Alas it seems TDKR is not clicking for some viewers, and that's cool, but don't dismiss others as fanboys just because the movie did click for them. The implications about enjoying Nolan's bodily fluids are especially off-putting.

Last edited by DaveyJoeG; 08-29-2012 at 12:36 PM..
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