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  #1  
Old 07-02-2013, 11:53 AM
Soooo, that Trayvon Martin case is still going on...

Anyone still following it?

I could of sworn I started a thread about this in this section but I could be wrong. Anyways what an absolute clusterfuck of a situation this is.

Recently CNN aired the Zman's Social Security Number and phone number. GOOD GOD, Look I dislike this Zimmerman guy(he acted reckless and didn't have to follow the kid. He should of followed the dispatcher's orders) but you just dont do something like that. I fucking hate all cable news for the most part but CNN is really pushing the envelope.

Nothing good is gonna come out of this. We already have a teenager dead, his parents torn apart by this and a guy's life that is gonna be changed forever . Even if he is found innocent, he'll have to be looking over his shoulder every second.

Anyone think he'll be found guilty? I don't think they have enough evidence to go up against the Stand Your Ground Law in Florida but we shall see.

My biggest fear is that there a reaction similar to the Rodney King verdict. Riots in the streets is probably something that could happen. I hope for the best but am fearing for the worst.
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  #2  
Old 07-02-2013, 12:02 PM
Quote:
My biggest fear is that there a reaction similar to the Rodney King verdict. Riots in the streets is probably something that could happen. I hope for the best but am fearing for the worst.
I'd riot if Zimmerman was found innocent. Fucking dude went looking for trouble. Asshole, neighborhood watch goon. You don't pull a gun when you're losing a fight that you started.
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  #3  
Old 07-02-2013, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Preston_79 View Post
I'd riot if Zimmerman was found innocent. Fucking dude went looking for trouble. Asshole, neighborhood watch goon. You don't pull a gun when you're losing a fight that you started.
I agree with the sentiment Zimmerman is a fucking dumbass and reckless for starting that fight. Honestly I don't know what to think though, because there is people saying that Trayvon Martin was reaching for the gun and beating him. Who knows what is true, but Zimmerman better go to prison for a long time. The problem is if Zimmerman is innocent from witnesses and evidence, he should not go to jail because that is how the system works. A kid lost his life for no reason though just a sad, sad case.
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  #4  
Old 07-02-2013, 06:04 PM
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Last edited by SS-Block; 03-31-2014 at 03:56 PM..
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  #5  
Old 07-02-2013, 06:20 PM
I live in Florida so this is not only on the local news every day but is one of the main topics in everyone's conversation. I remember when it first happened and all of these pro athletes posed in pictures wearing a hood to honor this victim of a crazy white man with a gun. It seemed like a no brainer at the beginning. But despite all of the information that leaked about Zimmerman's character early on, now it seems that Martin had a few issues of his own. As much as I don't always agree with our legal system this is why we have it. Making quick decisions usually lead to a wrong decision.
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  #6  
Old 07-02-2013, 06:47 PM
Agree 100% Scotch. There are a lot of gray, fuzzy, cloudy areas to this trial. That Rachel womans testimony was a disaster, she basically got caught lying on several accounts from what ive read. So who the hell knows what's gonna come out of this. It seems like both Martin and Zimmerman have/had issues in the past. I don't think he'll be convicted of 1st degree murder, but I can see a manslaughter charge with 10-12 yrs followed by a wrongful death suit somewhere in there as well.

May or may not be a stupid question but does anyone see a shit storm if Zimmerman is found innocent of all charges? Maybe not so an LA Rodney King kinda deal but I could and I emphasize the could, see this going south real quick if that's the result
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  #7  
Old 07-02-2013, 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Block View Post
If Trayvon threw the first punch, Zimmerman had a right to respond. His response was tad heavy handed, if you ask me, just a tad, just an incy wincy bit, but he could argue justifiable self defense.
Thats a joke.

...

Right?
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  #8  
Old 07-02-2013, 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Block View Post
If Trayvon threw the first punch, Zimmerman had a right to respond. His response was tad heavy handed, if you ask me, just a tad, just an incy wincy bit, but he could argue justifiable self defense. People have been killed from one punch. Who threw the first punch?
That's irrelevant. George Zimmerman racially profiled Trayvon, and called the police on him. He then told the operator that he would pursue Trayvon, and the operator told him NOT to. He pursued Trayvon, and shot him dead. If Trayvon the first punch it was without a doubt because he felt like he was in danger. That's what the stand your ground law is about. Protecting yourself when you feel like your life is being hreatened. If anything, Trayvon should have shot Zimmerman. But then we'd be reading about how Trayvon was on death row for murder...


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The threat of riots is a strange one. What would the riot be about? one team losing? the false belief that good ol' whitey gets away with murder, even though they're over 50% of the prison population? that you had money on the outcome and you down some? The judge and jury are exploring all the available facts, and they haven't figured it out yet, so I don't believe others KNOW FOR A FACT what went on.
African Americans make up roughly 13% of the US population, and 40% of the prison population.
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  #9  
Old 07-02-2013, 08:35 PM
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Last edited by SS-Block; 03-31-2014 at 03:55 PM..
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  #10  
Old 07-02-2013, 08:36 PM
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Last edited by SS-Block; 03-31-2014 at 03:55 PM..
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  #11  
Old 07-02-2013, 08:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Block View Post
What's your point?
How are you "arguing" for both sides? One second youre being offensive about the situation, the next youre quoting the following (albeit racist in nature it seems) controversial post.

And you quoted me and remarked in a sense that I dont even understand. What are you trying to convey here? Your stance or are you needlessly stirring shit up?

EDIT: Just to be sure. If I disagree with you, AND MAYBE throw a punch and am wearing a jacket. Things get heated, I begin to sweat. My right axillary area begins to itch. I scratch it. Do you shoot me willy nilly? No justification, no sight of a weapon or otherwise? You just cock it and blow me away?

Last edited by Inglorious; 07-02-2013 at 08:50 PM..
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  #12  
Old 07-02-2013, 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotch View Post
I live in Florida so this is not only on the local news every day but is one of the main topics in everyone's conversation. I remember when it first happened and all of these pro athletes posed in pictures wearing a hood to honor this victim of a crazy white man with a gun. It seemed like a no brainer at the beginning. But despite all of the information that leaked about Zimmerman's character early on, now it seems that Martin had a few issues of his own. As much as I don't always agree with our legal system this is why we have it. Making quick decisions usually lead to a wrong decision.

Yeah, but the point is that Trayvon's issues would not have been an issue if an overly aggressive neighborhood watch captain had followed the 911 operator's directions and not followed and confronted the kid.

Black people, much like women, have an issue when strange (perceivably "white") males are following them at night.

Also, there were recorded discrepancies in Zimmerman's story when he was being interviewed by officers at the police station after the incident.
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  #13  
Old 07-02-2013, 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Block View Post
the false belief that good ol' whitey gets away with murder, even though they're over 50% of the prison population?
What was yours?
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  #14  
Old 07-02-2013, 09:10 PM
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Last edited by SS-Block; 03-31-2014 at 03:53 PM..
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  #15  
Old 07-02-2013, 09:15 PM
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Last edited by SS-Block; 03-31-2014 at 03:52 PM..
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  #16  
Old 07-02-2013, 09:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Block View Post
That white people don't get away with murder, so why should people riot as if there's political or systemic corruption -- and that's only relevant if Zimmerman is white or hispanic white.
There's plenty of racial injustice in America's legal system.

FACT CHECK:
Five times as many whites report using illegal drugs as blacks.
Ten times as many blacks are sent to jail on drug related offenses.

So if your point is that the legal system is equal for whites and blacks, then I must refute your point.
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  #17  
Old 07-02-2013, 09:38 PM
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Last edited by SS-Block; 03-31-2014 at 03:52 PM..
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  #18  
Old 07-02-2013, 10:11 PM
This is basically the "white privilege" thread all over again. But please, white people, tell minorities how they should feel some more.
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  #19  
Old 07-02-2013, 10:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Block View Post
There are many variables to consider: types of drugs, quantity, first offense or repeat offense, taken at home or dui.
The point still stands. Five times as many white people partake. Black people are sent to prison at ten times the rate as whites.

If 1 white person goes to prison on drug charges, 10 blacks go. Yet the ratio for whites to blacks doing illicit drugs would be 5:1.

I can't factor in those variables, as I don't have those statistics. But it seems liek you're assuming that black people are more likely to have copious amounts of various dangerous drugs, and do a shit ton of them before jumping behind the wheel and recklessly endangering other peoples life. What else am I supposed to take from that statement?
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  #20  
Old 07-02-2013, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeMovie View Post
[Zimmerman] then told the operator that he would pursue Trayvon, and the operator told him NOT to.
I have no real side in this, but this is has come up a lot, and it's not relevant at all. The operator has no authority over Zimmerman. He had no obligation to take what she said seriously. I just think going down this road is foolish because it's the wrong road.

Quote:
If 1 white person goes to prison on drug charges, 10 blacks go. Yet the ratio for whites to blacks doing illicit drugs would be 5:1.

I can't factor in those variables, as I don't have those statistics. But it seems liek you're assuming that black people are more likely to have copious amounts of various dangerous drugs, and do a shit ton of them before jumping behind the wheel and recklessly endangering other peoples life. What else am I supposed to take from that statement?
Those variables he brought up have nothing to do with what you're saying. In proportional ratios, inner-city people are more likely to be involved in violence connected to the drug trade and possession of drugs for distribution. A lot of America's inner cities are populated by minorities. There's some cultural problems embedded in American society, but the 10-1 stats you are referring to includes every 16 year-old suburban kid who gets caught with some dope, and that's skewers things a bit.
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  #21  
Old 07-02-2013, 10:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AceD View Post
I have no real side in this, but this is has come up a lot, and it's not relevant at all. The operator has no authority over Zimmerman. He had no obligation to take what she said seriously. I just think going down this road is foolish because it's the wrong road.
My point wasn't necessarily that he disobeyed an order given by an operator. It was more to show that he was the aggressor. He called the police which was the extent of action he should have taken. The operator advised him not to, which he could have taken or left. The point is, he decided to go forward with it. Which resulted in the killing of an innocent teenage kid.

Quote:
Those variables he brought up have nothing to do with what you're saying. In proportional ratios, inner-city people are more likely to be involved in violence connected to the drug trade and possession of drugs for distribution. A lot of America's inner cities are populated by minorities. There's some cultural problems embedded in American society, but the 10-1 stats you are referring to includes every 16 year-old suburban kid who gets caught with some dope, and that's skewers things a bit.
The 10-1 stats refer to the amount of African American males incarcerated on drug related charges compared to White males incarcerated on drug related charges.
I'm not sure what 16 year old suburban kids have to do with it?
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  #22  
Old 07-02-2013, 10:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badbird View Post
This is basically the "white privilege" thread all over again. But please, white people, tell minorities how they should feel some more.
no one told minorities how they should feel at all, but hey buddy way to bring up a point that has absolutely nothing to do with any discussion in this thread good job! I mean I have this crazy idea that if anyone who is a minority and is reading this thread then they can speak up about it, rather than some white kid doing it. I know its crazy to believe that minorities can speak for themselves rather than needing you to do it, but trust me they can.

@AceD that's a good point about the operator I actually didn't know that.

I don't really understand why this thread got onto white and black crime statisitcs, minority rights etc. Those don't have anything to do with this case. This case was purely about a mixed raced Latino man who killed an African American kid. Do I think Zimmerman should be punished yes I do. Do I know if it should be murder or manslaughter no I do not as I don't and no one knows what really happened that not. However, the prosecution is doing a shitty job right now that is for sure and I think it is definitely going to have a huge impact on the ruling of the case.

Last edited by ThunderStorm; 07-02-2013 at 10:54 PM..
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  #23  
Old 07-02-2013, 11:56 PM
Zimmerman is hispanic right?
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  #24  
Old 07-03-2013, 12:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badbird View Post
This is basically the "white privilege" thread all over again. But please, white people, tell minorities how they should feel some more.
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  #25  
Old 07-03-2013, 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by echo_bravo View Post
Zimmerman is hispanic right?
Yes. Sorry echo looks like another one of your threads is getting politicized lol
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  #26  
Old 07-03-2013, 12:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderStorm View Post
I don't really understand why this thread got onto white and black crime statisitcs, minority rights etc. Those don't have anything to do with this case. This case was purely about a mixed raced Latino man who killed an African American kid. Do I think Zimmerman should be punished yes I do. Do I know if it should be murder or manslaughter no I do not as I don't and no one knows what really happened that not. However, the prosecution is doing a shitty job right now that is for sure and I think it is definitely going to have a huge impact on the ruling of the case.
To ignore race in a case like this is to ignore a larger problem. Martin wasn't robbing a house, or killing anyone, or doing drugs on the corner, or anything illegal for that matter. Zimmerman wasn't basing his suspicions on any crime he witnessed. He was basing his suspicion on how Trayvon Martin looked.

Keep in mind, Trayvon wasn't walking around with a ski mask with a giant loot sack slung over his shoulder. He was wearing a hoodie because it was raining. He was walking home and on the phone with his girlfriend.

i'm not saying 100% that this is race related. Maybe Zimmerman thought everybody in a hoody was automatically a criminal, and would have pursued the hoody bearer regardless of whether they were white/hispanic/asian or whatever.. Maybe he was terrified of the kind of sneakers Martin was wearing. Maybe a voice from heaven told him to do it. Whatever the reason, an innocent person is dead because they didn't look 'normal' to someone else.
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  #27  
Old 07-03-2013, 01:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderStorm View Post
I don't really understand why this thread got onto white and black crime statisitcs, minority rights etc.
B/c people don't read the entire thread. They just make an initial comment, someone quotes them with a rebuttal and they start their own off topic argument usually riddled with personal attacks.

These threads eventually just become another failed attempt at a civil and logical conversation that wanted to use facts but ended up being consumed by individual's emotions and personal views. It's usually not what the OP intended for (unless we are talking about Jim Coyler) but unfortunately that's what the majority of these threads amount to.
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  #28  
Old 07-03-2013, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by creekin111 View Post
Yes. Sorry echo looks like another one of your threads is getting politicized lol
Yeah thats what I thought in regards to him being hispanic (not that it matters really) but since so many people are hung up on race and trying to refer to him as a white man so they can label this white on black crime I just wanted to make sure he was in fact hispanic.

And yeah the politicizing was bound to happen haha.

It should also be noted that female friend of Trayvon's (the one that couldn't read cursive) did Trayvon and his family no favors when she took the stand. That was brutal to watch.
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  #29  
Old 07-03-2013, 06:05 AM
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Last edited by SS-Block; 03-31-2014 at 03:52 PM..
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  #30  
Old 07-03-2013, 06:51 AM
It seems like a lot of people assume that only white people can racially profile. Just to be clear, anyone is capable of racial profiling. Racial profiling is STILL race related.
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  #31  
Old 07-03-2013, 07:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMovie View Post
It seems like a lot of people assume that only white people can racially profile. Just to be clear, anyone is capable of racial profiling. Racial profiling is STILL race related.
So for THIS thread (and because I like Echo a lot)... dont do it. Lets move on.
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  #32  
Old 07-03-2013, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Inglorious View Post
So for THIS thread (and because I like Echo a lot)... dont do it. Lets move on.
I don't understand. This is a debate forum. What was this thread created for if not to debate details of an ongoing court case? If anyone has a good point to make, I'd love to hear it.
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  #33  
Old 07-03-2013, 08:35 AM
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Last edited by SS-Block; 03-31-2014 at 03:51 PM..
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  #34  
Old 07-03-2013, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by SS-Block View Post
Who assumes only white people can racially profile? Give me one example.
I never said anyone did. Bringing up that Zimmerman is hispanic 'seems' to imply that this case is no longer race related. That's all.


Quote:
Do we know for sure that Zimmerman is guilty of racial profiling?
It seems pretty obvious that Zimmerman racially profiled. I personally don't understand how any other conclusion can be reached. So if you have reason to believe that he didn't racially profile Martin, please explain where you're coming from. I'd love to hear it.

Here is is what Zimmerman saw: A black man in a hoodie walking home in the rain on his cell phone. That was enough information for Zimmerman to determine that Martin was a criminal.

the extent of Zimmermans descriptions of this 'suspicious guy' never amounted to anything more than 'he's a a black male in his late teens' 'he's wearing a dark grey hoodie and tennis shoes' and 'he's walking around and looking around in the rain'.

The most suspicious thing that Martin did was run away. Which we later found out was because he was creeped out that he was being followed by Zimmerman.
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  #35  
Old 07-03-2013, 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMovie View Post
I don't understand. This is a debate forum. What was this thread created for if not to debate details of an ongoing court case? If anyone has a good point to make, I'd love to hear it.
Its the opposite, really. I asked for this forum years ago (and it existed and was removed prior to that). It was probably removed for these types of interactions. This forum is for us to more or less socialize. Not debate.

Politics forum is that-a-way. *Points*

(Yes its a political topic, but this isnt politics)
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  #36  
Old 07-03-2013, 09:46 AM
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Last edited by SS-Block; 03-31-2014 at 03:51 PM..
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  #37  
Old 07-03-2013, 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inglorious View Post
Its the opposite, really. I asked for this forum years ago (and it existed and was removed prior to that). It was probably removed for these types of interactions. This forum is for us to more or less socialize. Not debate.

Politics forum is that-a-way. *Points*
Debate is a type of social interaction. I didn't start this thread. So if the thread is out of place hopefully it'll be moved to the proper place rather than be deleted. In the mean time I see nothing wrong with debating the details of the case in this thread and in this section.
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  #38  
Old 07-03-2013, 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Block View Post
Its not about where i'm coming from. I suggest you read the following link, an article from one of CNN's legal analysts.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/30/op...cial-profiling
Interesting read, but the link hardly proves that Zimmerman wasn't motivated by race. It instead appeals to keep an open mind, and do research before coming to a conclusion.

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No. According to the transcript of Zimmerman's call to the police, the most suspicious thing Trayvon did was to be looking into houses in an area of many recent burglaries.
http://www.documentcloud.org/documen...zimmerman.html

Zimmerman never said that Trayvon was looking INTO houses. That would be suspicious. Instead he said that Trayvon was looking around AT houses. I as well as many people look around at my surroundings as I walk by. It's not uncommon to look around your surroundings.
In regards to recent break ins, they aren't uncommon. The particular neighborhood that this occurred in was a gated neighborhood with a key pad to get in. There are gated neighborhoods less than 10 minutes away from the shooting with 24 hour guard gates, guard patrols, and security cameras throughout the neighborhood, as well as neighborhood watch. This particular neighborhood i'm referencing has also had burglaries over the last year.

My point being, walking around and looking around in a neighborhood should not be enough evidence to determine someone is a criminal.

Quote:
That's only the reason Zimmerman phoned the police. It wasn't the reason Zimmerman used his gun. The gun was used later on. What happened later on? How did the incident start? those questions are the key to this case.

The link above also provides a strong argument proving against the relevancy of racism.
What happened later on is also important. There seems to be conflicting views of what happened during and after pursuit. Regardless of the pursuit though, the facts still stand. Trayvon wasn't up to no good, yet he was treated as such and was ultimately killed.
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  #39  
Old 07-03-2013, 10:42 AM
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Last edited by SS-Block; 03-31-2014 at 03:51 PM..
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  #40  
Old 07-03-2013, 10:50 AM
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