#1  
Old 06-13-2003, 06:36 PM
How insightful.
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  #2  
Old 06-13-2003, 07:06 PM
Re: BOOKS ARE DUMB

Quote:
Originally posted by goretothecore
Heloooooooooooooo
How long did that take you to write? "Hello" has two "L"s and fewer "O"s
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  #3  
Old 06-13-2003, 08:31 PM
Books aren't dumb. Usually it's the people who can't read them.
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  #4  
Old 06-13-2003, 09:32 PM
I'm hurt that I've wasted my time by replying to four of your pointless threads today, gore.

Oh well, raises my post count I guess.
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  #5  
Old 06-13-2003, 09:32 PM
BUTTER FLY IN THE SKY

I CAN FLY TWICE AS HIGH

IT'S IN A BOOK


ON READING RAINBOWWWWWWW
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  #6  
Old 06-13-2003, 09:45 PM
I'll be honest about my opinions regarding books...

Books are the least entertaining form of entertainment out there. From my point of view, why sit alone at home and read a book while you can go out and do something fun? I, similar to many people, hate books and hate reading them. Reason? I just find no enjoyment, and it seems strange how one can say a book is better than a movie ( if a remake ). Books and movies are totally different, one is a visual and one is text. Yeah, someone may say that books leave open the imagination factor, but movies show you things that you may not have caught while reading, make it simpler, and with the visualizations, make it much, much more enjoyable! I mean, lets say the Matrix was made from The Matrix- The Book. Would anyone, at all, enjoy it as much as the movie? I doubt it. Lastly, I hate reading books, as I stated before.

SImply put, books are boring to me and would rather watch a movie ( exception: magazine ). However, my opinions aren't intended to affect anyone and I hope I have not offended anyone, I just wish to express my views.

Thanks a lot.
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  #7  
Old 06-13-2003, 09:56 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Zombie
I'll be honest about my opinions regarding books...

Books are the least entertaining form of entertainment out there. From my point of view, why sit alone at home and read a book while you can go out and do something fun? I, similar to many people, hate books and hate reading them. Reason? I just find no enjoyment, and it seems strange how one can say a book is better than a movie ( if a remake ). Books and movies are totally different, one is a visual and one is text. Yeah, someone may say that books leave open the imagination factor, but movies show you things that you may not have caught while reading, make it simpler, and with the visualizations, make it much, much more enjoyable! I mean, lets say the Matrix was made from The Matrix- The Book. Would anyone, at all, enjoy it as much as the movie? I doubt it. Lastly, I hate reading books, as I stated before.

SImply put, books are boring to me and would rather watch a movie ( exception: magazine ). However, my opinions aren't intended to affect anyone and I hope I have not offended anyone, I just wish to express my views.

Thanks a lot.
M'kay. I insist you never read anything, ever again. Intellectual
stimulation, who needs that?!
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  #8  
Old 06-13-2003, 10:15 PM
Heed the chain-smoking Japanime's sarcasm, Zombie. He means it.
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  #9  
Old 06-14-2003, 12:01 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by goretothecore
I am hurt
Are you serious??!!
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  #10  
Old 06-14-2003, 04:32 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Zombie
I'll be honest about my opinions regarding books...

Books are the least entertaining form of entertainment out there. From my point of view, why sit alone at home and read a book while you can go out and do something fun? I, similar to many people, hate books and hate reading them. Reason? I just find no enjoyment, and it seems strange how one can say a book is better than a movie ( if a remake ). Books and movies are totally different, one is a visual and one is text. Yeah, someone may say that books leave open the imagination factor, but movies show you things that you may not have caught while reading, make it simpler, and with the visualizations, make it much, much more enjoyable! I mean, lets say the Matrix was made from The Matrix- The Book. Would anyone, at all, enjoy it as much as the movie? I doubt it. Lastly, I hate reading books, as I stated before.

SImply put, books are boring to me and would rather watch a movie ( exception: magazine ). However, my opinions aren't intended to affect anyone and I hope I have not offended anyone, I just wish to express my views.

Thanks a lot.
I disagree.

I love movies too. But I very rarely find a movie I will watch right to the end - many movies just fizzle out after 45 minutes. Even when a movie is so good that I will watch it right to the end - I watch it in 30 minute segments because I get sick of sitting in front of a TV for longer than that.

On the other hand, if I am reading a really good book, I can read for hours and hours without my concentration ever breaking or my enthusiasm waning. If I am reading a thrilling Paul Wilson book, or a scary Jonathan Aycliffe book or an intellectually-stimulating Richard Dawkins book or a gory Richard Laymon book - I am completely there, the book totally absorbs me and my attention does not waver.

If I'm watching a movie, there are more distractions. I'll be thinking, 'Hey, he was in that other movie,' 'wow, that song is good - turn it up,' or, 'amazing camera-work!' All of those things are good - but they are all reasons why I get pulled out of the world of the movie and made aware of reality.

With books - there are no such distractions. No actors - the characters are exactly who the author wants them to be. And the words work a sort of magic on your mind - when I'm reading a very good writer, I don't see words on the page - instead I see what he is describing, I hear the characters and feel the breeze. And if the quality of the prose is maintained - I could stay in this semi-hypnotic state for the whole book.

Movies are visual and noisier, yes, but they are also far too short. Two hours is just not long enough to tell a complex story. A character arc will be severely shortened just to fit a story into two hours. At the same time - I don't think I could sit and watch a movie for longer than two hours. So it's a catch-22 situation - movies can never attain the depths that a book can attain.

For example - compare any of John Irving's books to any movie that is a good character study? Which creates better characters?

Anf if you like horror. Read some Richard Laymon or Poppy Z Brite and then watch the nastiest horror movie ever made. Which is nastier?

That's because books can go to extremes that movies cannot due to censorship and time constraints. And don't tell me it's because words have less impact. To me, words have a much greater impact than images on a screen. Because words will burrow into your head, mess with your thoughts and make you feel what the author wants you to feel. Movies are, by their very nature, external - you can see and hear everything but you can't forget that you are sitting 6 feet away watching a TV or a screen.

Now - I'm not saying I don't like movies. I do. I love movies - my parents own a video library and I have been surrounded by thousands of movies all my life. I watch lots of movies but I find them a little tiring in a way that a good book never is.
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  #11  
Old 06-14-2003, 05:28 AM
Books are essential. You can't get your mind working if you don't read. Simple as that.
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  #12  
Old 06-14-2003, 06:11 AM
I think the reason that people like Zombie think that books are boring is because they don't read much and people are always telling them that books are filled with 'intellectual stimulation'.

And anything intellectual has got to be boring. Right?

Well, it's not entirely true. There are plenty of intelligent books out there. But there are intelligent movies too. There are also plenty of books that are just plain exciting, sexy, funny or scary. There are books packed with graphic violence, rotting corpses, quirky teenagers, convicts on the run...etc...etc...

What I mean to say is that anything you can find in a movie,, you'll be able to find in a book ten fold.

Zombie - I'm just curious to know this: Which books have you read that convinced you that books aren't very entertaining?

In my experience, whenever somebody tells me that they find reading boring, they follow it up by saying that they DO read. That they occasionally read a John Grisham, Anne Rice or Tom Clancy book. Hell, if those were the only writers I had ever read - I'd think that books are boring too.
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  #13  
Old 06-14-2003, 06:36 AM
How can one not like books? Even my most idiotic friends read.
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  #14  
Old 06-14-2003, 07:07 AM
I agree with EoghainFOKeeffe. I'm reading Richard Laymon's 'In The Dark' and just finished Simon Clarke's 'Stranger'. The latter provided some mental stimulation but it was mostly just a really entertaining pulp horror novel. Lot's of violence and mayhem backed up with some strong characters so that I at least gave a shit about whether they suffered. Laymon books are the written equivalent of a slasher movie though. There really ain't much to stimulate the old gray matter in his books. It's just heads down sex and violence. Brilliant!!!
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  #15  
Old 06-14-2003, 07:43 AM
You're right, PsychoCandy. Richard Laymon certainly knew how to have fun with words. His books are incredibly entertaining. When Laymon is at his best, he can make you forget everything except the story he's telling. Did you ever read ENDLESS NIGHT or BODY RIDES? They are two of my favourites. IN THE DARK was good, but not one of me top ten Laymons.

Have you ever been to rlk.cjb.net, PsychoCandy? There's a really great message board there for talking about Laymon books. (That's not spam, by the way. I have no affiliation with RLK, I just like the site and I post there a lot.)
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  #16  
Old 06-14-2003, 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by EoghainFOKeeffe
You're right, PsychoCandy. Richard Laymon certainly knew how to have fun with words. His books are incredibly entertaining. When Laymon is at his best, he can make you forget everything except the story he's telling. Did you ever read ENDLESS NIGHT or BODY RIDES? They are two of my favourites. IN THE DARK was good, but not one of me top ten Laymons.

Have you ever been to rlk.cjb.net, PsychoCandy? There's a really great message board there for talking about Laymon books. (That's not spam, by the way. I have no affiliation with RLK, I just like the site and I post there a lot.)
I haven't read Endless Night or Body Rides yet. I have a hardback copy of Body Rides and am going on holiday a week today so I think i'll take it along with me. I also have the Beast House trilogy in paperback and I may take those also. A weeklong readathon of undemanding carnage sounds like funtimes right now.
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  #17  
Old 06-14-2003, 10:21 AM
Quote:
Which books have you read that convinced you that books aren't very entertaining?
To Kill a Mockingbird
Farenhiet 451

Those are the major two, as I am not a major book reader and I have read those for school purposes.

I just felt bored and hated them, being honest with you.
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  #18  
Old 06-14-2003, 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Zombie
To Kill a Mockingbird
Farenhiet 451

Those are the major two, as I am not a major book reader and I have read those for school purposes.

I just felt bored and hated them, being honest with you.
Well i've read both of them and loved them to bits. I can kinda understand though why you might have found them boring...especially Farenheit 451. They didn't bore me in the slightest though. I think one of the reasons that so few people read these days is a direct result of the books that kids get forced to read at school. I think it's more important to encourage people to read something...anything...and too many schools are putting kids off reading in the name of providing what they think is some kind of intellectual stimulus. I started reading at a very early age and before I even reached high school I had been reading Stephen King, James Herbert and Tolkien for some years. So I already knew that there was a world of books that are simply there to entertain and not provide the sort of intellectual brainfood that teachers seem to think is required. I urge you to go to your local library and pick up a copy of Stephen King's 'Salem's Lot' or a copy of Simon Clarke's 'Blood Crazy' or a copy of 'Night In Lonesome October' by Richard Laymon or 'Summer Of Night' by Dan Simmons or 'Legend' by David Gemmell. I assure you that these books are not boring in the slightest and within a few chapters you should find yourself drawn into the story and genuinely concerned for the characters. Good luck.
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  #19  
Old 06-14-2003, 11:05 AM
Quote:
direct result of the books that kids get forced to read at school
Which is definelty my reason. I can't stand reading at school and forced by the school. I have no intention on doing things, and plus I think it is just that I have to do homework like crazy and read at the same time. Kind of bums me.

Quote:
I urge you to go to your local library and pick up a copy of Stephen King's 'Salem's Lot' or a copy of Simon Clarke's 'Blood Crazy' or a copy of 'Night In Lonesome October' by Richard Laymon or 'Summer Of Night' by Dan Simmons or 'Legend' by David Gemmell. I assure you that these books are not boring in the slightest and within a few chapters you should find yourself drawn into the story and genuinely concerned for the characters. Good luck.
Thank you , very much. I have heard a lot about these writers and have heard only but good things. I probably will try to pick up a book for the summer, because right now i have finals . I intend on picking up Stephen King's 'Salem's Lot' because I am an avid horror movie fanatic. Thanks again

One question: How is Tom Clancy's books? I heard they are very complex, especaily if you don't understand political and military "things". However, I'm curious because his games rock in my opinion.
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  #20  
Old 06-14-2003, 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Zombie
Which is definelty my reason. I can't stand reading at school and forced by the school. I have no intention on doing things, and plus I think it is just that I have to do homework like crazy and read at the same time. Kind of bums me.
I agree that schools are largely responsible for turning people off reading. No matter how good a book is, it's impossible to enjoy it if you are forced to read it for educational purposes. School is responsible for turning me off Jane Austen for life. We were forced to read EMMA and I hated it - in fact, I couldn't even finish it. If this had been the first book I ever read - I would never have bothered to read again.

Luckily, my father taught me to read at an extremely young age and I was reading 'adult' books before I started school. I discovered books on my own - which is the best way to do it.

The system in the US is terrible. The schools actually give students a list of stuff to read for summer. So everybody ends up reading the same stuff, stuff that is pre-approved by teachers. In Irish schools, it's only necessary to read one book and one play over the course of any school year. Apart from that - students are not told what to read. The result is that a lot more people read for pleasure.

One question: How is Tom Clancy's books? I heard they are very complex, especaily if you don't understand political and military "things". However, I'm curious because his games rock in my opinion. [/QUOTE]

I wouldn't recommend him. Especially if you aren't used to reading much. His books are very, very, very long and he goes into a lot of technical detail that can be pretty boring unless you're an engineer. If you read him at this stage, he might turn you off books forever!

I'd recommend sticking with some of PsychoCandy's suggestions. King, Laymon and Clark are great - readable and a lot of exciting fun.

But if you like the Clancy computer games, maybe you should try Robert Ludlum. He's a MUCH better writer than Clancy, and much more exciting. THE PROMETHEUS DECEPTION is really good. As are all of the BOURNE books.
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  #21  
Old 06-14-2003, 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by EoghainFOKeeffe
I agree that schools are largely responsible for turning people off reading.
That's even an understatement.
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  #22  
Old 06-14-2003, 01:34 PM
These threads got really eerie when the posts by goretothecore were deleted. Just a whole bunch of people who's posts revolve around something that no longer exists. Like an episode of Twin Peaks or something...
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  #23  
Old 06-14-2003, 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by bob
These threads got really eerie when the posts by goretothecore were deleted. Just a whole bunch of people who's posts revolve around something that no longer exists. Like an episode of Twin Peaks or something...
"It was a dream, we live inside a dream."
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  #24  
Old 06-14-2003, 02:09 PM
I like how such a stupid post sparked such an interesting discussion on books!
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  #25  
Old 06-14-2003, 02:43 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Zombie
I mean, lets say the Matrix was made from The Matrix- The Book. Would anyone, at all, enjoy it as much as the movie? I doubt it.
If you want to read a book about the Matrix, look up Neuromancer by William Gibson
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  #26  
Old 06-14-2003, 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Zombie
I mean, lets say the Matrix was made from The Matrix- The Book. Would anyone, at all, enjoy it as much as the movie?
I would love to read a book with a similar theme to THE MATRIX. I tried to watch the movie three times but I gave up each time - it was a clever idea, but I found the execution to be pretty dull. It's the kind of complex idea that would work much better in a novel.

I'll have to give that Gibson book a try, Peterparker. A friend of mine kept promising to lend me his copy - I'm still waiting. Maybe I'll get it at the library instead.
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  #27  
Old 06-14-2003, 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Zombie


One question: How is Tom Clancy's books? I heard they are very complex, especaily if you don't understand political and military "things". However, I'm curious because his games rock in my opinion.
His earlier books (up to Sum Of All Fears) were really good, although they were long. His books now suck though. They used to have more action, now it's just guys sitting behind desks. If you really want to check out a Tom Clancy book, I'd suggest Patriot Games.

And yes, his games do rock.

Last edited by Raymond Babbit; 06-14-2003 at 10:14 PM..
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  #28  
Old 06-14-2003, 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Raymond Babbit
His earlier books (up to Sum Of All Fears) were really good, although they were long. His books now suck though. They used to have more action, now it's just guys sitting behind desks. If you really want to check out a Tom Clancy book, I'd suggest Patriot Games.
Which ones would you consider his most exciting, Raymond? I really enjoyed PATRIOT GAMES and the first third of CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER. But I had to struggle to read anything else by him.

Have you read Robert Ludlum? How would you rate Clancy's earlier books compared with Ludlum?
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  #29  
Old 06-14-2003, 10:13 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by EoghainFOKeeffe
Which ones would you consider his most exciting, Raymond? I really enjoyed PATRIOT GAMES and the first third of CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER. But I had to struggle to read anything else by him.

Have you read Robert Ludlum? How would you rate Clancy's earlier books compared with Ludlum?
I thought Clancy's best books were Patriot Games, Hunt For Red October, Clear and Present Danger, Netforce and Rainbow Six. Sum Of All Fears was good, but that's when it started getting boring. The last one I even tried to read was Bear and the Dragon, but I couldn't get through it.

The only Ludlum books I've read are the first two Bourne books, but I plan on checking out the third one, along with some of his other stuff. They seemed to start out kind of slow, but eventually they got better. Both of the books I read by him were better than Clancy's stuff.
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  #30  
Old 06-15-2003, 03:19 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Claw
BUTTER FLY IN THE SKY

I CAN FLY TWICE AS HIGH

IT'S IN A BOOK


ON READING RAINBOWWWWWWW
[/QUOTE

You forgot to take a look...
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  #31  
Old 06-15-2003, 10:38 AM
Ahem. These are the lyrics. Let's sing along...

Butterfly in the sky
I can go twice as high
Take a look
It's in a book
A Reading Rainbow

I can go anywhere
Friends to know
And ways to grow
A Reading Rainbow

I can be anything
Take a look
It's in a book
A Reading Rainbow
A Reading Rainbow
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  #32  
Old 06-15-2003, 11:25 AM
You wonder why he got banned
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  #33  
Old 06-15-2003, 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by movies35
You wonder why he got banned
Ah. This is book related. What's wrong with you?
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  #34  
Old 06-16-2003, 03:08 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Zombie
To Kill a Mockingbird
Farenhiet 451

Those are the major two, as I am not a major book reader and I have read those for school purposes.

I just felt bored and hated them, being honest with you.

WELL OF COURSE YOU HATE BOOKS! They've been forced down your throat.

Involuntary reading is the worst kind of reading, especially if you hate the book. I've seen a lot of kids say the same thing you have because teh only reading they've done is whatever their english class assigns them.

You obvioulsy haven't met the right book yet. You really should try looking for a book with a subject or story that interests YOU!

Books are VERY important, just ask Hollywood. Most screenwriters will tell you to write books instead of screenplays, because books are a more respected form of writing in Hollywood then screenplays, and can usually get made faster then most screenplays. Unless of course you have a very exceptional screenplay.


Trust me, not all books are boring, you just aren't looking.
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  #35  
Old 06-16-2003, 04:41 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by electriclite
Books are VERY important, just ask Hollywood. Most screenwriters will tell you to write books instead of screenplays, because books are a more respected form of writing in Hollywood then screenplays, and can usually get made faster then most screenplays. Unless of course you have a very exceptional screenplay.
I agree with that, electrilite. I love to write and I'm very interested in screenplays. But I write books because they are more fun to write (in my opinion) and the chances of getting a book published are far greater than the chances of getting a screenplay produced.

Writing a book is like jumping in at the deep end. It forces you to learn all aspects of writing - from dialogue to descriptions to pacing. Once you have learned to write a good book, it's a lot easier to take a step back and write a screenplay - you just leave out all the descriptions and focus on dialogue.
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  #36  
Old 06-17-2003, 03:54 PM
Many excellent point have been made here. When something is forced upon you, you naturally tend to resent it. I would much prefer to see a teacher giving students more leeway in choosing books that they would prefer rather than making one book mandatory. I am very fortunate in that I was always encouraged to read and to read what I wanted to, and it's sad to me to see people who can't get the same pleasure out of a good book.
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  #37  
Old 06-19-2003, 11:50 AM
I have a friend who feels pretty much the same way as Zombie. As far as I know, there has been ONE (1) book he really liked - which was the excellent Ender's Game. At least now I can say "See! You liked one".

I know a couple people who don't like any movies or TV shows or just anything that plays on that kind of a screen. It just doesn't do it for them. I imagine there are people who feel the same way (though probably fewer of them) who can't ever enjoy reading.

You might also try books on tape.
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  #38  
Old 06-21-2003, 02:43 AM
I personally like it when my school forces me to read. Usually I don't find any time to read, but once it's for homework I can take all the time I want.
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  #39  
Old 06-22-2003, 07:36 PM
Schools should not force certain books down on others. I used to get reading lists for the summer in which I would have to choose from a list of six books, picking three. I promise you that all of the books were really terrible. I do like to read though when I am allowed to choose what it is that I read. I love Richard Laymon, Bentley Little, among others because their books are immensely enjoyable without ever growing dull. I was up till three in the morning yesterday reading The Traveling Vampire Show by Laymon because it was so good that I just had to finish it. Btw, has anyone else read the aforementioned fantastic book? It is now one of my favorite books that I have ever read. Take Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury and make it about 100 times edgier and you have got The Traveling Vampire Show. I also believe that Laymon is underrated when it comes to creating characters because he created some unbelievably likable and unlikable characters in The Traveling Vampire Show.
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  #40  
Old 06-22-2003, 09:01 PM
I agree with Freeway. When I was a little younger, we would have to read certain books. And let's face it, they sucked. Nothing interesting or philosophical in any of them, a newberry award means nothing. Now, this summer, I was allowed to read one fiction and one nonfiction book of my choice. Which is good, because I chose to read:

Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
A Clockwork Orange

I really can't wait to see what a book report on Fear and Loathing would be like. I also decided to pick up 2001: A Space Odyssey, out of sheer enjoyment. Sometimes reading a book can offer something that the movie might be missing. Plus, books are portable.. Besides, books work fine for me. Being a screenwriter, (one of many on this board) I tend to imagine something like a movie in my head when I'm reading or writing. I don't mind sitting at home alone when there's nothing else to do, in fact, that's what I'm doing right now. I like stories in any form: Books, movies, art, music. It's all good. All are excellent forms of art. Plus, I think to be a true auter, you should know a great deal about literature, among the other arts. Thank you, and good day...

Last edited by Grim H.; 06-22-2003 at 09:14 PM..
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