#6481  
Old 06-10-2012, 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brando @$$ Fat View Post
I'm sorry you feel that way. It's a shame you put your hatred of an individual ahead of the entire sport.
It really is... I may check out a game or two, I'm not really sure at this point. I'm extremely disappointed in Boston.... They kick Miami's fucking ass for 3 straight games in a row, then lose Game 6 (which I am OK with, since I give credit to LeBitch for having a big game, I'll never deny his talent - just his will to win and his complete lack of closing instinct) and let Game 7 get away in the final 6 minutes. It was just as fucking disappointing as the loss to the Lakers in Game 7 of the NBA Finals a couple of years back. Both suck huge amounts of fucking ass.

I'm not going to close the door on Boston's "Big 3" era just yet. I think the ONLY person who might end up leaving would be Allen. I see KG signing a short-term 1 or 2 year contract and retire as a Celtic along with Pierce. Rondo/PP34 and Doc are all going to be back next year. So I think Garnett will be there too. I hope so, anyway. If not though, it's been a good run for the men in green and I'm glad they at least got 1 Championship out of it. It's most definitely better than none!

Having said all of that, I may watch the Finals (after reconsidering my stance) just to see if OKC can deny LeBitch & Co. another ring for the 2nd year in a row. The Thunder deserve the Championship more than those fucking jerkoff assholes in Miami do, anyway. Only time will tell.
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  #6482  
Old 06-10-2012, 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaw2929 View Post
The Thunder deserve the Championship more than those fucking jerkoff assholes in Miami do, anyway.
People say that and it's such a dumb argument. The Thunder play MUCH more stupid and hero-ball than the Heat do, and their stars make no attempt to play D. There's nothing classier about them than the Heat. I'm no fan of Lebron, but I do find it fairly hypocritical to hate on him and love OKC.
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  #6483  
Old 06-10-2012, 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AceD View Post
People say that and it's such a dumb argument. The Thunder play MUCH more stupid and hero-ball than the Heat do, and their stars make no attempt to play D. There's nothing classier about them than the Heat. I'm no fan of Lebron, but I do find it fairly hypocritical to hate on him and love OKC.
I disagree.

Here's what's classier about the Thunder than the Heat: Leborn held a decision special to announce that he was going to Miami, then had a huge party. Kevin Durant simply tweeted that he signed an extension with the Thunder.

People who hate Lebron and love OKC don't feel that way for basketball reasons. So your point about OKC's hero ball vs. Lebron's unselfishness, while accurate, isn't relevant because the people angry with Lebron are angry for reasons that have nothing to do with his game.

Granted, the Decision was a long time ago, but it still doesn't sit well with people. It's that simple.

For the record, I love Lebron. I love how he plays the game. I love how, aside from The Decision, he seems to be a good person (never in any trouble with the law, doesn't have 11 kids from 8 different women, etc.). He doesn't throw his teammates under the bus when they lose like Kobe. As a player, Lebron is everything you want. But that's coming from a basketball fan's perspective. I can see how casual fans feel differently, and it's not going to change.
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  #6484  
Old 06-10-2012, 07:29 PM
Really looking forward to this series, it should be a good one. I think it could go either way. I'll probably cheer for the Heat as I am a big Wade fan. I'm also kind of sick of people shitting on the Heat constantly and loving OKC. I'm not a fan of how OKC carries themselves sometimes. Westbrook and Harden frequently get on my nerves.

Last edited by Bourne101; 06-10-2012 at 07:35 PM..
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  #6485  
Old 06-10-2012, 08:52 PM
This series will be fucking intense. Can't wait. I hate to be predictable, but I'm saying OKC in 6.

And I've always felt that Durantula was far more humble than King James. I like the way he responds to adversity. He is mature beyond his years.
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  #6486  
Old 06-10-2012, 09:35 PM
If the Heat pull it out, it won't be because of any unfair advantages with their superstar roster. This is a team that has scratched and clawed to get here. I give them respect for that much, even though the Thunder have a lot more depth and are probably the favorites.
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  #6487  
Old 06-10-2012, 10:35 PM
I predict OKC will win the finals. The heat had youth on their side in their series against the Celtics, but OKC not only has youth, they also play better as a team. The Heat have no depth as a team and often look confused as to what plays they should run or who they should pass to. In other words, it doesn't matter if they have Lebron, Wade, and Bosh. OKC has an arsenal. The Heat are gonna get stomped.
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  #6488  
Old 06-10-2012, 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycheoutsteve View Post
I predict OKC will win the finals. The heat had youth on their side in their series against the Celtics, but OKC not only has youth, they also play better as a team. The Heat have no depth as a team and often look confused as to what plays they should run or who they should pass to. In other words, it doesn't matter if they have Lebron, Wade, and Bosh. OKC has an arsenal. The Heat are gonna get stomped.
Hell yes!
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  #6489  
Old 06-11-2012, 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Kenshin View Post
People who hate Lebron and love OKC don't feel that way for basketball reasons. So your point about OKC's hero ball vs. Lebron's unselfishness, while accurate, isn't relevant because the people angry with Lebron are angry for reasons that have nothing to do with his game.

Granted, the Decision was a long time ago, but it still doesn't sit well with people. It's that simple.

For the record, I love Lebron. I love how he plays the game. I love how, aside from The Decision, he seems to be a good person (never in any trouble with the law, doesn't have 11 kids from 8 different women, etc.). He doesn't throw his teammates under the bus when they lose like Kobe. As a player, Lebron is everything you want. But that's coming from a basketball fan's perspective. I can see how casual fans feel differently, and it's not going to change.
I don't disagree with any of that. My point is exactly what you said: people don't dislike him for logical or basketball reasons. Well put.
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  #6490  
Old 06-11-2012, 12:02 PM
It doesn't help that LeBron was so massively hyped coming into the NBA that it wouldn't be enough for him to be a first ballot hall of famer only five years into his career. People by and large are miserable wretches (myself included) who project their insecurities out on athletes who don't meet expectations, however outrageous they might be. It would be like if Jesus came back as Willem Dafoe instead of Jim Caviezel.

Who do you guys think will win the battle of the flopping: Battier or Harden? That's what I'm most intrigued to see. Battier is more experienced and prolific with his flopping, but Harden's acting skills are a little better. I think that concussion he suffered must've really awakened his inner Meryl Streep.
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  #6491  
Old 06-11-2012, 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brando @$$ Fat View Post
It doesn't help that LeBron was so massively hyped coming into the NBA that it wouldn't be enough for him to be a first ballot hall of famer only five years into his career. People by and large are miserable wretches (myself included) who project their insecurities out on athletes who don't meet expectations, however outrageous they might be. It would be like if Jesus came back as Willem Dafoe instead of Jim Caviezel.
Agreed. Most sports fans are complete hypocrites. People still talk about Jordan's 63-point playoff came with awe... and never mention that his team lost that game. Those same fans pick apart Kobe's 81 point game because he didn't have any assists or pick apart Lebron's triple doubles in games he wins because of perceived lack of clutch play. It's just a different era in how we consume sports.

And the hype regarding Bron is an enormously good point. I heard it said recently that if Bron had been born 10 years earlier, he'd be much less of a head case (to the degree that he is a head case). I completely agree. He was the first great athlete of the internet generation... and to his credit, he's been by far the greatest true star to live up to his hype. I mean, as a Jr in high school people were saying he'd be the most talented player to ever play... and now he is. He might be the best. Think about that. He had every excuse to fail under the weight of his hype and expectations and as an individual player he hasn't. Not a lot of guys could survive his hype that way.
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  #6492  
Old 06-11-2012, 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AceD View Post
And the hype regarding Bron is an enormously good point. I heard it said recently that if Bron had been born 10 years earlier, he'd be much less of a head case (to the degree that he is a head case). I completely agree. He was the first great athlete of the internet generation... and to his credit, he's been by far the greatest true star to live up to his hype. I mean, as a Jr in high school people were saying he'd be the most talented player to ever play... and now he is. He might be the best. Think about that. He had every excuse to fail under the weight of his hype and expectations and as an individual player he hasn't. Not a lot of guys could survive his hype that way.
I agree with you on this to the extent of individual accomplishment. However, if he doesn't win a Championship, he will go down as an over-rated under-achiever.
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  #6493  
Old 06-11-2012, 09:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AceD View Post
Agreed. Most sports fans are complete hypocrites. People still talk about Jordan's 63-point playoff came with awe... and never mention that his team lost that game. Those same fans pick apart Kobe's 81 point game because he didn't have any assists or pick apart Lebron's triple doubles in games he wins because of perceived lack of clutch play. It's just a different era in how we consume sports.

And the hype regarding Bron is an enormously good point. I heard it said recently that if Bron had been born 10 years earlier, he'd be much less of a head case (to the degree that he is a head case). I completely agree. He was the first great athlete of the internet generation... and to his credit, he's been by far the greatest true star to live up to his hype. I mean, as a Jr in high school people were saying he'd be the most talented player to ever play... and now he is. He might be the best. Think about that. He had every excuse to fail under the weight of his hype and expectations and as an individual player he hasn't. Not a lot of guys could survive his hype that way.
Part of this is where we're judging from historically. People forget that a lot of the exact same criticisms (i.e. "he lacks the will to win in the big moment") were leveled against Magic and others while they were playing. We'll be able to more accurately judge these things once his career is over.

I think one place where some of the hate comes is a lack of appreciation for LeBron's hard work. There was an interesting 30 for 30 about Todd Marinovich in which he said that people would come up to him at places like the gas station and say "Do you know the things I could have accomplished if I had your ability?" and he would say something to the effect that the reason he had the ability was because he worked really hard at it from a young age, so he'll be damned if it's anybody's ability to waste but his own. With LeBron, there is definitely a sense that he is the Mozart of natural (physical) ability and he, the person LeBron, is wasting it. Of course, I would disagree with that, but it is hard to judge these things until we have historical perspective.

It's funny though, because I think all of it has to do really with his exposure off the court. In a place like France, where the media is limited, and filtered through the more journalistic entities (i.e. not Skip Bayless, Stephen A. Smith, ESPN) LeBron is significantly more popular and respected.
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  #6494  
Old 06-11-2012, 10:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon View Post
Part of this is where we're judging from historically. People forget that a lot of the exact same criticisms (i.e. "he lacks the will to win in the big moment") were leveled against Magic and others while they were playing. We'll be able to more accurately judge these things once his career is over.
Good point. I think part of the problem is that as fans we're always thinking in terms of top 10 lists. We're always trying to find ways to separate what all these very accomplished men did with their careers and who did more. There isn't a whole lot separating Wilt, Magic, Kareem, etc. I've caught myself on more than one occasion saying that Wilt Chamberlain "only" won two championships, which is stupid because I'm not the champion of anything, but if you're comparing him to Bill Russell then that's an important distinction to make.
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  #6495  
Old 06-13-2012, 04:24 PM
So OKC goes up 1-0. I'm very pleased with that result! LeBitch scores 30 and DWade is still nowhere to be found in these 2012 Playoffs. It's kinda like they've switched roles, and they STILL can't get it done!

Hey Heat fans, consider this: Miami lost 3 straight games to the Celtics in the post-season and pretty much were owned by Boston in their regular season match ups. With that in mind, do you HONESTLY think they can defeat the Thunder? A younger, more athletically gifted team who does everything Miami can but with better efficiency? With the problems the Heat had with the "old, washed up" Boston Celtics, there's no way in HELL they're winning this series vs. OKC!
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  #6496  
Old 06-13-2012, 07:53 PM
Heat can still win because Lebron can single handedly annihilate a team. Even one as good as the Thunder. However, that can only save them for a game or two. If they're going to win the series, Wade (I'm convinced he's still hurt) and Bosh (useless last night) need to give them SOMETHING.

I'm not talking about all-star numbers. But they have to be able to be productive and at least keep the defense honest (i.e. keep Ibaka out of the lane, force Sefalosha to guard Wade so Durant wears himself out guarding Lebron). I firmly believe Lebron can carry much of the load for the Heat.
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  #6497  
Old 06-14-2012, 11:50 PM
Well, now things get interesting.......
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  #6498  
Old 06-16-2012, 03:50 AM
Well here I was thinking the Thunder were going to win this in 5 games. And while still possible, it's not probable. It'll most likely end up taking them 6 or 7 games, but they will end up ultimately winning the 'Chip in the end.
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  #6499  
Old 06-17-2012, 02:51 PM
The whole "Lebron carrying the team" strategy isn't going to last. Game two started out horrible for the Thunder, they were just playing bad basketball. Westbrook was trying to be a hero and taking off balance shots and the rest of the team wasn't taking them at the opportune times. And yet, the Thunder still came back to be within 2 points of winning at one point. If they settle down for game 3, I predict tonights game to be another victory for OKC.
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  #6500  
Old 06-17-2012, 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycheoutsteve View Post
The whole "Lebron carrying the team" strategy isn't going to last. Game two started out horrible for the Thunder, they were just playing bad basketball. Westbrook was trying to be a hero and taking off balance shots and the rest of the team wasn't taking them at the opportune times. And yet, the Thunder still came back to be within 2 points of winning at one point. If they settle down for game 3, I predict tonights game to be another victory for OKC.
I don't really buy that argument. The alternative argument is equally reasonable: The Heat have been leading the Thunder for seven out of eight quarters, therefore they should win, etc.

We just need to see how it plays out. I think the most interesting and most likely scenario is that the Heat take two out of three home games and we get a 3-2 series going back to OKC.
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  #6501  
Old 06-17-2012, 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon View Post
I don't really buy that argument. The alternative argument is equally reasonable: The Heat have been leading the Thunder for seven out of eight quarters, therefore they should win, etc.

We just need to see how it plays out. I think the most interesting and most likely scenario is that the Heat take two out of three home games and we get a 3-2 series going back to OKC.
This is basketball, if they keep the score relatively close throughout those quarters, or they manage a comeback by the 4th each time, then there is only one quarter that matters, the 4th quarter. And since the heat often have trouble closing out games, OKC has an equal chance of winning despite the current numbers.
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  #6502  
Old 06-17-2012, 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycheoutsteve View Post
This is basketball, if they keep the score relatively close throughout those quarters, or they manage a comeback by the 4th each time, then there is only one quarter that matters, the 4th quarter. And since the heat often have trouble closing out games, OKC has an equal chance of winning despite the current numbers.
Stats wise, the Thunder have struggled a lot more to close games all season (and throughout the Durant-Westbrook era) than the Heat have. Basketball is about having the best player... and the Heat clearly have the best player, which is what matters in close games too (and don't give me the "Lebron can't close" nonsense... the Thunder are equally if not moreso stupid with how they execute late in games).

We've also seen that in a basketball series that having to come back multiple times eventually lets you down (hell, it already let the Thunder down). The Thunder are the better team and if they play smart they have a great chance of winning. But they don't have the best player and they don't always play smart.

This is going 7, I just hope it's not the battle of the stupid players.
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  #6503  
Old 06-17-2012, 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycheoutsteve View Post
This is basketball, if they keep the score relatively close throughout those quarters, or they manage a comeback by the 4th each time, then there is only one quarter that matters, the 4th quarter. And since the heat often have trouble closing out games, OKC has an equal chance of winning despite the current numbers.
I'm just pointing out that your narrative is rather arbitrary. You're basically saying "Ha, despite the Heat crushing the Thunder for the most part, the Thunder are still coming back in the fourth quarter! Therefore, they're going to start winning more." and I'm just saying the exact same facts can point to (along the lines of what AceD is saying) "Ha, despite some comebacks the Heat are crushing the Thunder for the most part! Therefore, they're going to start closing out and winning more."

I think the real answer is the middle: They're going to keep trading victories.
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  #6504  
Old 06-18-2012, 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon View Post
I'm just pointing out that your narrative is rather arbitrary. You're basically saying "Ha, despite the Heat crushing the Thunder for the most part, the Thunder are still coming back in the fourth quarter! Therefore, they're going to start winning more." and I'm just saying the exact same facts can point to (along the lines of what AceD is saying) "Ha, despite some comebacks the Heat are crushing the Thunder for the most part! Therefore, they're going to start closing out and winning more."

I think the real answer is the middle: They're going to keep trading victories.
Yeah, I think you twisted my words a bit. I'm not saying they're going to start winning more because they come back or they keep it close, I'm saying they have a good chance. I'll agree with your comment that they'll probably keep trading victories, but I'd have to say that your initial comment about the Heat dominating most of the quarters is pretty arbitrary. If you've got a 1 point game in the 4th quarter, then all those runs the Heat made during the previous quarters don't really count for shit. In that event, only the last few possessions will matter and it's anybody's game.


And as for AceD's comments, yes you've got me with the whole Thunder being a young team and being statistically worse in the closing games department, but I have to disagree with your comments regarding basketball being about having the best player. Yes, you can take your team to a championship with one man who supplies a majority of the points, but ideally you want a well rounded team so you don't have to rely on that one guy all the time.
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  #6505  
Old 06-18-2012, 04:32 PM
Disappointing game last night. OKC was playing sloppy as shit for being in the Finals, and I really think it DOES haveta do with the fact they're a young/inexperienced team when it comes to late rounds of the Playoffs and being in the Finals. I'd like to see them get at least one win in Miami... Cuz if they don't, they're fucked!
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  #6506  
Old 06-18-2012, 05:11 PM
OKC is playing the exact same type of basketball they have all playoffs... and much like the Heat last year, hero-ball is letting them down on the biggest stage. That and terrible coaching.
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  #6507  
Old 06-18-2012, 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AceD View Post
OKC is playing the exact same type of basketball they have all playoffs... and much like the Heat last year, hero-ball is letting them down on the biggest stage. That and terrible coaching.
Can't argue with that at all. Unfortunately I think Miami's going to get a 2nd championship. Maybe once LeBitch wins his ring, he'll be more humbled moving forward.... (Probably not, but you never know)
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  #6508  
Old 06-18-2012, 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaw2929 View Post
Can't argue with that at all. Unfortunately I think Miami's going to get a 2nd championship. Maybe once LeBitch wins his ring, he'll be more humbled moving forward.... (Probably not, but you never know)
I Don't get this... what makes less humble than any other star?
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  #6509  
Old 06-18-2012, 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AceD View Post
I Don't get this... what makes less humble than any other star?



I mean really? You're going to celebrate like you actually "won" something, when you didn't win SHIT? Fucking clown.

Last edited by jaw2929; 06-18-2012 at 06:18 PM..
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  #6510  
Old 06-19-2012, 09:22 AM
it's good for the NBA haha

I thought basketball was boring until I saw the Thunder play. they are an exciting team to watch
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  #6511  
Old 06-20-2012, 04:29 PM
Westbrook drops something like 42 points on Miami, and then proceeds to hand them the game because he had a mental lapse in judgment and fucking FOULED them when it wasn't necessary. Because he wasn't paying attention to the clock.... Un-fucking-believable.

The way the Thunder have been playing in comparison to the Heat, it's this simple: Miami looks like it's playing for a Championship and is clearly determined to win it. OKC are fumble-fucking through the games and don't seem to have any sense of urgency whatsoever, it doesn't seem like they realize they're in the fucking Finals right now!

I'm not going to count the Thunder out entirely. Just look at what happened in their series vs. San Antonio. I predict they'll win game 5 tomorrow in Miami and then proceed to lose Game 6 at home. Though I WOULD love to see this thing go 7. But regardless (as much as it pains me to say it) Miami will finally end up winning their Championship this year, and they'll have actually fucking deserved it this time around.
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  #6512  
Old 06-20-2012, 05:05 PM
I think the pressure is still on the Heat to close out at home, to be honest.

If OKC come off of a win in a big game 5, they're going home 3-2 with two games left. Honestly, I would rather be going back to the loudest crowd in the NBA down 3-2 than having to close out on the road in OKC.

I still think Miami will win the series, but it's still worth mentioning.
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  #6513  
Old 06-20-2012, 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon View Post
I think the pressure is still on the Heat to close out at home, to be honest.
Good point. It also adds a little pressure that LeBron, for the first time in his career perhaps, is showing signs that he might be overextending himself. At least a little. That said, OKC's body language at the end of that game was telling. If I had to bet on it, I'd put it on the Heat closing it out at home.
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  #6514  
Old 06-20-2012, 11:53 PM
What do you guys think about the Ariza/Okafor trade to Washington for Lewis and a draft pick? Trying to give Wall more help out there in D.C. though I don't know how much this improves their team (if any).

Opinions?
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  #6515  
Old 06-21-2012, 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaw2929 View Post
What do you guys think about the Ariza/Okafor trade to Washington for Lewis and a draft pick? Trying to give Wall more help out there in D.C. though I don't know how much this improves their team (if any).

Opinions?
Smart trade. Okafor and Ariza are good guys, and Washington's roster was filled with a bunch of immature, uncoachable morons. If last season was any indication, the Wizards are primarily trying to change the culture of the team.

There are also cap ramifications, as Rashard Lewis will be waived (not sure if it's the amnesty clause, which can still be applied as long as the team didn't use it last offseason). Makes sense for both sides, although certainly not a groundbreaking move.
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  #6516  
Old 06-21-2012, 11:29 PM
Agreed Darth, that trade should help the Bulle- err Wizards next year I think.

Miami's gonna win their 2nd Championship and LeBitch FINALLY gets his fucking ring. So I think the ONLY likeable NBA Champions in the past 12 have been the Pistons, Celtics and Mavericks. Otherwise it's the same old Spurs/Lakers/Heat horse-shit, all 3 teams of which are completely fucking unlikeable (unless you're a fan of theirs) IMO.

I caught part of the 3rd quarter of tonight's game and the Thunder looked like they don't even fucking BELONG in the Finals! I stopped watching once the 3rd was over. Good for the Heat, they deserve it (as much as I can't stand 'em). So hopefully someone else other than Miami/LA and San Antonio can win it next year. Jesus.
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  #6517  
Old 06-22-2012, 12:13 AM
I thought it was interesting when LeBron said the difference between this year and last year is that he wasn't "playing with hate." That was a very telling post-game interview.

Also, even though I don't think he's the best coach by any means, I find it really hard not to like Spoelstra. What a likable, hard-working guy he is.
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  #6518  
Old 06-22-2012, 01:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brando @$$ Fat View Post
I thought it was interesting when LeBron said the difference between this year and last year is that he wasn't "playing with hate." That was a very telling post-game interview.

Also, even though I don't think he's the best coach by any means, I find it really hard not to like Spoelstra. What a likable, hard-working guy he is.
Biggest difference between this year and last year: they weren't playing against Dirk Nowitzki. They had the best player in the series this year. That certainly wasn't the case a year ago.

I agree with you on Spoelstra. He's an average coach, but he's handled this situation with a lot of class. Gets slammed by the media, has Riley's shadow lurking over him, gets shown up by players (i.e. the Wade incident vs. the Pacers). Happy for him.
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  #6519  
Old 06-22-2012, 02:01 AM
I forgot the game was on last night and I really don't feel like I've missed anything. Maybe it's cause I'm stuck with a team that can't get out of the 2nd round.
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  #6520  
Old 06-22-2012, 04:18 AM
I'd just like to add that I will concede: I'm one of LeBron's haters that has been "silenced" now. He's proven he actually deserves to win his Championship this year. His post game interview where he admitted that he was fuckimg humbled by Dallas and that he was going about everything the wrong way, has made me gain respect back for him. While I'm not a fan of his or Miami's, I respect what they've accomplished this year. You'll not see me hating on LeBron anymore from here on out. But I still want someone else to win the Championship next year dammit!
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