#6641  
Old 07-18-2012, 01:47 AM
The Nets' plan could work, but didn't they try this already? I thought they had offered Humphries in a heavily front-loaded sign and trade along with Lopez, Brooks, and draft picks for Howard and some scrubs, but Orlando turned it down. I guess the Nets are hoping for 3 things:

1. Obviously, Dwight doesn't get traded to another team before January

2. Lopez has a huge first half of the season. Apparently, Orlando wasn't too keen on having him replace Dwight. I honestly think, when healthy, he's a top 5 center, but that's just me

3. Orlando drops their demand. None of the picks they'd get from Brooklyn have the potential to be lottery picks, and that's another factor that steered them towards the Rockets as trade partners. Maybe Orlando gets desperate in January and can't get a better deal than the one from BK
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  #6642  
Old 07-18-2012, 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Kenshin View Post
The Nets' plan could work, but didn't they try this already? I thought they had offered Humphries in a heavily front-loaded sign and trade along with Lopez, Brooks, and draft picks for Howard and some scrubs, but Orlando turned it down. I guess the Nets are hoping for 3 things:

1. Obviously, Dwight doesn't get traded to another team before January

2. Lopez has a huge first half of the season. Apparently, Orlando wasn't too keen on having him replace Dwight. I honestly think, when healthy, he's a top 5 center, but that's just me

3. Orlando drops their demand. None of the picks they'd get from Brooklyn have the potential to be lottery picks, and that's another factor that steered them towards the Rockets as trade partners. Maybe Orlando gets desperate in January and can't get a better deal than the one from BK
Well said. I don't think Orlando knows what the fuck they are doing. They seem like they are waiting for some team to come along and take all their big contracts and then give them a high level all star. That is not going to happen. They are not in love with anyone. The longer this plays out the better the deal with the Nets offer looks. Orlando will be sorry they did not deal Howard earlier.

I still say the Lakers deal is not good at all. Houston deal is not good either and I think they are stuck with Lin. I don't think they really wanted him and just for the Knicks to over spend. I think they got stuck with Lin and are sorry or will be. I think them picking up Lin hurts getting Howard.

If Howard makes it to game 1 of the regular season, the Nets and Magic will sit back and wait until Jan and see what is up then. I am very confident Howard is going no where. All the deals that could be done have been presented and all turned away.

The biggest joke of them all is I don't even really like Howard. There is something about him I do not like and I mean in the way he plays. I still hope the Nets get him and I am wrong, but if we don't get him I will be happy with Lopez and Hump who I think are decent players. Will be fun to see now how they play with good players to play with.
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  #6643  
Old 07-18-2012, 03:07 PM
Jamison is officially a Laker. I'm pretty pleased with this. It's a one year deal (as opposed to the 2 year deal that the Clips gave to Hill) and he will be a solid contributor off of the bench. I hope the Lakers pick up a few more bench pieces. They could really use some.
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  #6644  
Old 07-18-2012, 03:38 PM
Just read an article on the whole Lin to Houston deal.... On whether it was a good or bad thing. It was split 50/50, but the ultimate answer is: no one's really gonna know. We know he's got the POTENTIAL to be a good/perennial all-star point guard. But will he live up to that potential on a consistent basis is the question. I'm not sure if he can. It'll be pretty interesting to see.....
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  #6645  
Old 07-19-2012, 01:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne101 View Post
Jamison is officially a Laker. I'm pretty pleased with this. It's a one year deal (as opposed to the 2 year deal that the Clips gave to Hill) and he will be a solid contributor off of the bench. I hope the Lakers pick up a few more bench pieces. They could really use some.
Key thing for Jamison is that he doesn't need the ball to be effective. He's a great slasher and finisher. I remember in college he dropped over 30 in a game and only had the ball in his possession for like 40 seconds. He's perfect for Nash and Kobe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaw2929 View Post
Just read an article on the whole Lin to Houston deal.... On whether it was a good or bad thing. It was split 50/50, but the ultimate answer is: no one's really gonna know. We know he's got the POTENTIAL to be a good/perennial all-star point guard. But will he live up to that potential on a consistent basis is the question. I'm not sure if he can. It'll be pretty interesting to see.....
I saw a breakdown of his average salary, and it's on par with the likes of Goran Dragic, Devin Harris, and George Hill. When you consider the market and then factor in Lin's off-court contributions and his potential (if he develops a left hand, watch out), the contract was more than reasonable.
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  #6646  
Old 07-19-2012, 09:22 AM
The Howard report today said that Howard is willing to resign with the Lakers if traded. That would really piss me off. Not because my Nets don't get him (and I really dont want him), but because it is the Lakers. I hate the Lakers and that make these trades for great centers over their history. Orlando can't let the Lakers get another one of their great centers. I am also of the opinion that Bynum is going to be a shitty player to trade for and the trade will end up being shit for Orlando. Orlando is not smart. The Lakers are (although not as much lately) a smart team.
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  #6647  
Old 07-19-2012, 10:05 AM
The Lakers do have a history of getting their man. And as I said before, given their winning culture and big market, I never understood why Dwight didn't want to come to LA. I'm not sure why he changed his mind, though, but he's not the most logical guy in the world.

However, given his flakiness, he might change his mind about this tomorrow. Or, worse, after a trade is actually completed (no such thing as an extend-and-trade any more, so he can't sign an extension until after a trade is complete). He's such a tool that I don't even know if I want him on LA. Yes, he's a better fit than Bynum (better defensively, and I think he'd work better with Gasol) but he's brat. I'm more inclined to give the younger Bynum a chance to develop with Nash than go through this headache.

Anyway, apparently the hold up is Bynum, who hasn't said he'd sign an extension with Orlando. Oddly enough, Cleveland and Houston could be a 3rd team in the deal, giving them Bynum. If that happens, Orlando will be giving up Howard and not even getting a center to replace him: just draft picks and cap relief. I can't imagine that being a better deal than what was previously on the table. Houston's offer was the best, as they have the best assets, but if they're involved and are only getting Bynum, they won't give up as much.

Anyway, if this happens, the lesson to owners is fairly simple: complain all you want, but big market teams will always have an advantage in the NBA. Sorry. No amount of luxury taxes or commissioner interference is going to change that. If you renegotiate the CBA every 2 years, it still won't make a difference.
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  #6648  
Old 07-19-2012, 10:18 AM
A third team will have to be involved if this is going to go down. Even if Bynum wanted to extend in Orlando, the Lakers simply don't have any picks to trade. Cleveland or Houston will have to get involved or it's not happening.
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  #6649  
Old 07-19-2012, 11:08 AM
I'm not sure if I buy into that 3rd team idea. I feel if Bynum said he'd sign an extension, Orlando would be ok trading Howard for Bynum pretty much straight up. Maybe throw in Jason Richardson and take back Metta World Peace (contract is for fewer years, and maybe they could even buy him out). But if Bynum doesn't agree to stay in Orlando, then yes, a 3rd team would be needed.

I don't know much about Bynum's mentality, though. Would he re-sign in a city like Cleveland just to play with Kyrie Irving for the next 5-10 years? I'm not sure what's important to him.
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  #6650  
Old 07-19-2012, 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne101 View Post
A third team will have to be involved if this is going to go down. Even if Bynum wanted to extend in Orlando, the Lakers simply don't have any picks to trade. Cleveland or Houston will have to get involved or it's not happening.
Maybe the Nets, since they like trading and being busy can get involved. They would not end up with Howard, but maybe they can help some bench help of an expiring contract. I will tell you what I would do (although crazy that it wont happen) I would totally take Bynum and play him at center and trade either Hump or Wallace or M Brooksand put Lopez as a forward. Kinda like the Lakers did with Bynum and Gasol.

Hear me out. Joe Johnson and D Will as the guard. Lopez and Hump or Wallace as forwards and Bynum at center. That is a decent team right there. They have a top end talented back court and big men to beat up on small ass Miami. Plus, a decent bench. I would totally be willing to give up Brooks or Hump or Wallace and a pick or two for Bynum even if it is for one year.
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  #6651  
Old 07-19-2012, 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Kenshin View Post
I don't know much about Bynum's mentality, though. Would he re-sign in a city like Cleveland just to play with Kyrie Irving for the next 5-10 years? I'm not sure what's important to him.
I think I remember him saying recently that he wanted to go somewhere where he was consistently the first or second option. I also think he said that he would extend with either Cleveland or Houston.
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  #6652  
Old 07-19-2012, 12:03 PM
Shit. I hate being a Hawks fan. Can't even draw home town players here. Sorry Mr. hope and change (Where have I heard that before?) Ferry but you can't change the culture here.

You're either a title contender or TV fodder and players like Howard will look for a bandwagon to jump on.
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  #6653  
Old 07-19-2012, 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocknblues81 View Post
Shit. I hate being a Hawks fan. Can't even draw home town players here. Sorry Mr. hope and change (Where have I heard that before?) Ferry but you can't change the culture here.

You're either a title contender or TV fodder and players like Howard will look for a bandwagon to jump on.
Correct. And as I said before, you can throw in all the luxury taxes you want, but big market teams will always have an advantage on small market teams. That's the culture of the NBA. No matter how hard the owners and David Stern try, it will never be the NFL.

The only way for small market teams to compete is to draft wisely. OKC got into the Finals by making smart draft picks. Same with the great Spurs run. Small market teams have such a small margin of error. Atlanta had their chances. Look at some of their recent lottery picks:

2004 - Josh Childress over Luol Deng or Andre Iguoudala
2005 - Marvin Williams over Chris Paul or Deron Williams (that had to hurt the most)
2006 - Shelden Williams over Brandon Roy or Rudy Gay
2007 - Al Horford - got that one right. However, that got them just good enough to make the playoffs, meaning they gave up their first round pick in 2008 (which was lottery protected) to Phoenix. Had they not made the playoffs, they would've had a lottery pick in the deepest draft of the 2000's. Maybe they get Kevin Love or Russell Westbrook. But instead, the pick went to Phoenix, who nabbed Robin Lopez. That sounds right for the Hawks.

Had any of those picks gone right, they could've been a different team. Teams in areas like that need to capitalize on every draft pick they get. Unlike the Lakers, who can draft horribly but make up for it with trades or free agents, the Hawks can't screw up when they have good assets.
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  #6654  
Old 07-19-2012, 05:36 PM
I would like to remind you the Knicks sucked for over 10 years. The Celitics had 7 years of shit before the big three. The Clippers have never been good. Dallas was shitty for 20 years before Cuban. Chicago outside of Jordan has done and been nothing. Philly has done very little (even with AI) since 1980. Those are all the biggest markets.


Keep the faith Rocknblues. It takes years to get out from current players and contracts and then you have to get really lucky in who you draft. It might be harder to attract free agents there, but I trust in that players want to win, so one player could be the difference between getting and not getting a FA. I think what Ferry is doing will give the team a chance in the future. That is all you can ask for.

Orlando is not a big market, but they have gotten real lucky in the last 15 or so years with Howard and Shaq. Sadly, they could not do much with them. Boston is not really this huge market. They just have a history of winning. Philly is a big market and have one once since 1980.
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  #6655  
Old 07-22-2012, 07:09 PM
Is it me, or does anyone else think "traitor" when they see guys like Grant Hill, Steve Nash, Ray Allen and others holding up the jersey of their new team? Not in a butt-hurt way, but I almost laugh... These guys getting 1-3 year contracts, and they're all pushing 40.... It's pretty crazy!
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  #6656  
Old 07-22-2012, 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaw2929 View Post
Is it me, or does anyone else think "traitor" when they see guys like Grant Hill, Steve Nash, Ray Allen and others holding up the jersey of their new team? Not in a butt-hurt way, but I almost laugh... These guys getting 1-3 year contracts, and they're all pushing 40.... It's pretty crazy!
No, not at all. It is a job, not war. I know the fans think it is war, but it is not. It is sports. A kids game
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  #6657  
Old 07-22-2012, 10:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
No, not at all. It is a job, not war. I know the fans think it is war, but it is not. It is sports. A kids game
Well I do.
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  #6658  
Old 07-22-2012, 11:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaw2929 View Post
Well I do.
That is your business, but I dont think you should take sports so seriously and I hope you don't limit yourself the same way. When Jason Kidd or Zach Parisi come back to play my teams in a different uniform, I will cheer them for what they gave my teams at that time and then root against them. They are not traitors or an enemy in any way to me.
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  #6659  
Old 07-22-2012, 11:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
That is your business, but I dont think you should take sports so seriously and I hope you don't limit yourself the same way. When Jason Kidd or Zach Parisi come back to play my teams in a different uniform, I will cheer them for what they gave my teams at that time and then root against them. They are not traitors or an enemy in any way to me.
Fair enough. I'll agree to disagree with your outlook on sports.
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  #6660  
Old 07-22-2012, 11:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaw2929 View Post
Fair enough. I'll agree to disagree with your outlook on sports.
LOL OK. But you mean almost everything else too!
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  #6661  
Old 07-22-2012, 11:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaw2929 View Post
Is it me, or does anyone else think "traitor" when they see guys like Grant Hill, Steve Nash, Ray Allen and others holding up the jersey of their new team? Not in a butt-hurt way, but I almost laugh... These guys getting 1-3 year contracts, and they're all pushing 40.... It's pretty crazy!
Traitor is a strong word because, as any athlete will tell you, fans make rivalries, not athletes.

I remember it was a big deal when Alex Rodriguez and David Ortiz had dinner in Boston a couple years ago during a series. They don't care. At the very least, these athletes respect each other (like Nash and Kobe). Sometimes, they even genuinely like each other (A-Rod and Papi). Fans make the rivalry and sometimes take it to an extreme.
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  #6662  
Old 07-23-2012, 01:43 PM
If a star player, more or less in his prime, says "Fuck this hillbilly town, I'm going to a city with more beautiful people like me," then yeah I could understand getting pissed off. But when does that ever happen? Nash and Allen are two athletes who have built up a lot of good will over the years, so it isn't a PR nightmare when they pack up and go somewhere else, nor should it be.
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  #6663  
Old 07-23-2012, 03:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brando @$$ Fat View Post
If a star player, more or less in his prime, says "Fuck this hillbilly town, I'm going to a city with more beautiful people like me," then yeah I could understand getting pissed off. But when does that ever happen? Nash and Allen are two athletes who have built up a lot of good will over the years, so it isn't a PR nightmare when they pack up and go somewhere else, nor should it be.
I hear ya... Question: Do you think Nash or Allen will win a Championship with their new team in the next 3 years?
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  #6664  
Old 07-24-2012, 12:40 AM
Quote:
The Orlando Magic have told rival executives that they might not trade Dwight Howard after all, according to league sources.

An executive who has had discussions with the Magic regarding Howard said Orlando only will trade the star center in a deal that is great for the franchise. The executive said this has been Orlando's stance for the past "week or so."
There is a lot more.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/81...ght-howard-now

So another words the Magic don't like the offers and are going to wait. How typical. How stupid. I guess they are not even going to try to improve the team in any sort of way in hopes to keep Howard. They are going to pray the offers get better.

Fucking stupid from a joke of a team. They should have taken the Nets offer months ago. Dumb fucks. That was their best option from the jump and is still their best option, but now they have to wait until Feb or some dream team comes along. What they did was waste another year. They would have better off sucking ass and get a lottery pick along with all the Nets picks and cap room and look to rebuild.

Howard will not be happy. The fans will not be happy. They will blame Howard for wanting to leave even though the team has done nothing to help him. They are all dumb fucks the whole way round. Do they even have a coach yet? If the Magic were a girl, they would be Katy Perry. Cock teasers. All these months and weeks of rumors and nothing for now for months.

I just want it to be over already. Has been like this for almost a year now.
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  #6665  
Old 07-24-2012, 01:54 AM
Here are the only things that matter as far as I'm concerned:

1. Dwight is coming off major back surgery. It's entirely possible he comes out this year, and combining injury with apathy, is far from stellar. That might actually weaken his trade value.

2. They screwed it up by trying to shop him so vigorously instead of saying "we're not trading you, we're going to get better." Now, there's no way they can improve their team. The roster they're going to put out in November is an insult to the fans.

3. Very few superstars have demanded trades, weren't accommodated, and had things work out. In fact, I can only think of Kobe Bryant, and that only worked out because Gasol was dropped into their laps midway through the season.

4. This was just an awful offseason for Orlando. They say they want to hit the "reset" button and dump bad contracts, yet they resign Jameer Nelson for 3 years, $20 million. That's worse than the Chris Duhon, Jason Richardson, or Glen Davis contracts they were trying to shed in the process of trading Howard. Meanwhile, they let the MOST IMPROVED PLAYER IN THE NBA (who is only 24) walk because, at that point, they were committed to rebuilding. Nice mixed messages they're sending.

5. There are only three ways this works out for Orlando's benefit: one is that a team overachieves and might be willing to "rent" Howard for a title run. This is extremely unlikely and really only happens in baseball.

Another way is that one of the young centers drafted in the first round looks good and Orlando tries to acquire him (other than Anthony Davis, who is not for sale, even for Howard). Highly, highly unlikely to happen, since Orlando doesn't seem to want a young center in return (they apparently really don't like Al Horford or Book Lopez, so they're just morons).

Lastly, another team shows some promise and Dwight demands a trade there unexpectedly. I don't want to think about this too hard, but what if Cleveland has a strong beginning? What if Kyrie Irving and Damian Waiters become an elite backcourt and Tristan Thomas continues to grow. Would Dwight decide he wants to play with a great point guard and a power forward who can bang with him? Cleveland has a young center (Zeller), a solid player (Varejao, who is a great value), and a few expiring contracts (including Luke Walton's $6 million). How about a package of Zeller, Varejao, Walton, and draft picks for Howard and some crappy contracts from Orlando? Certainly plausible, but still unlikely.

My prediction: Orlando buckles down and accepts the Nets' inevitable offer in February (which, again, might be less than it was now, depending on how Dwight performs) or he gets signed-and-traded to Dallas after the season ends.

Last edited by Darth Kenshin; 07-24-2012 at 02:02 AM.. Reason: Wrote "Detroit" instead of "Cleveland"
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  #6666  
Old 07-24-2012, 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Kenshin View Post
Here are the only things that matter as far as I'm concerned:

1. Dwight is coming off major back surgery. It's entirely possible he comes out this year, and combining injury with apathy, is far from stellar. That might actually weaken his trade value.

2. They screwed it up by trying to shop him so vigorously instead of saying "we're not trading you, we're going to get better." Now, there's no way they can improve their team. The roster they're going to put out in November is an insult to the fans.

3. Very few superstars have demanded trades, weren't accommodated, and had things work out. In fact, I can only think of Kobe Bryant, and that only worked out because Gasol was dropped into their laps midway through the season.

4. This was just an awful offseason for Orlando. They say they want to hit the "reset" button and dump bad contracts, yet they resign Jameer Nelson for 3 years, $20 million. That's worse than the Chris Duhon, Jason Richardson, or Glen Davis contracts they were trying to shed in the process of trading Howard. Meanwhile, they let the MOST IMPROVED PLAYER IN THE NBA (who is only 24) walk because, at that point, they were committed to rebuilding. Nice mixed messages they're sending.

5. There are only three ways this works out for Orlando's benefit: one is that a team overachieves and might be willing to "rent" Howard for a title run. This is extremely unlikely and really only happens in baseball.

Another way is that one of the young centers drafted in the first round looks good and Orlando tries to acquire him (other than Anthony Davis, who is not for sale, even for Howard). Highly, highly unlikely to happen, since Orlando doesn't seem to want a young center in return (they apparently really don't like Al Horford or Book Lopez, so they're just morons).

Lastly, another team shows some promise and Dwight demands a trade there unexpectedly. I don't want to think about this too hard, but what if Cleveland has a strong beginning? What if Kyrie Irving and Damian Waiters become an elite backcourt and Tristan Thomas continues to grow. Would Dwight decide he wants to play with a great point guard and a power forward who can bang with him? Cleveland has a young center (Zeller), a solid player (Varejao, who is a great value), and a few expiring contracts (including Luke Walton's $6 million). How about a package of Zeller, Varejao, Walton, and draft picks for Howard and some crappy contracts from Orlando? Certainly plausible, but still unlikely.

My prediction: Orlando buckles down and accepts the Nets' inevitable offer in February (which, again, might be less than it was now, depending on how Dwight performs) or he gets signed-and-traded to Dallas after the season ends.

Good points. However,
1. Judging by the interest few teams are worried about his back
3. You are right about Kobe and the league gave Gasol to the Lakers.
5. I dont think Howard wanting to be traded has anything to do with winning a title. I think he is more about money and wants to be in a big market. I don't see him staying in Cleveland if he is traded there.

It is note worthy that Nash (NHL) went to the Rangers for much less than they are asking for at the deadline last year. I hate the Rangers and they stole Nash for almost no one. The Nets deal is looking pretty good to them right now
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  #6667  
Old 07-24-2012, 04:59 PM
You're right in that no one seems concerned about his back yet (except possibly Chicago, who was conspiculously absent in the Howard talk), but my point is I feel it's more likely that, after seeing him play, teams become more concerned because he might slow or break down, as opposed to him coming out averaging 27-15 and his stock actually improving.

As for whether or not he wants to win a title, I honestly don't know what Dwight wants. I don't think even he really knows. He's flip-flopped on this more than anything. All we know for sure is he's insecure and wants to be liked, but that ship might have sailed.
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  #6668  
Old 07-24-2012, 09:04 PM
So I've been watching Team USA's exhibitions pretty closely, and I gotta say, their lack of size really does scare me.

Brazil crushed us on the boards, which comes as no surprise given their bigs are athletic and active (Nene, Splitter, and especially Varejao crushed the boards). If any of them had offensive skills, we'd be in trouble.

We dominated Spain, but the size difference was obvious. It will be more apparent when Marc Gasol comes back. We're gonna have a tough battle with Spain in London. What saved us was our ability to pressure the guards and turn them over. Although Calderon didn't play too much, he doesn't really worry me. I think the game plan will be the same. I would be scared if Ricky Rubio was around, as I don't think he'd make the same rushed, poor passes the Spanish guards were making in the 2nd half. I still feel we get the gold.
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  #6669  
Old 07-25-2012, 03:32 PM
I think you're correct on all your points about USA Basketball Darth. However, after watching about 2 or 3 of their games, I'm disinterested in watching any more of them. Why? Because they've dominated the competition so fucking thoroughly, it's boring to watch. There's really not any competition for them and the games usually end in ridiculous blow-outs!

On ESPN Classic and NBA TV they're gonna be showing some classic NBA games over the next few days. Primarily from the 1993 Playoffs/Finals. That was a good time for basketball and I really enjoy watching games from that point in time.
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  #6670  
Old 07-26-2012, 02:11 AM
It's funny, I think the lack of size makes the Olympic games a complete question of luck: if they hit their shots they win, if they have an off shooting night, they lose.
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  #6671  
Old 07-26-2012, 10:55 AM
One reason I watch is just to see the dynamic of the players. It's amazing how many guys have made huge leaps after an international competition. Looking at 2010, Kevin Love, Kevin Durant, and Russell Westbrook all became elite players.

I also like to see how they players interact. It was amazing watching Durant just take over that team in 2010. Back in 2008, there was a legitimate debate about who the best player in the world was: Kobe, Lebron, or possibly Wade. In the Gold medal game vs. Spain, when Kobe took over as everyone else watched, the answer was obvious.

Those are the things I'm looking for here. In a close game, would Lebron still defer to Kobe? Does Durant still have the "4th quarter is MY TIME" swag he developed in 2010 and carried into the NBA? Will any one make a leap to greatness (Harden or Iguodala)? It's interesting.

And yes, a lot of it is luck, but only against a few teams. Talent-wise, the US is so far beyond most teams that, even if they're missing jumpers, they'd still win. Spain and Argentina are probably the only teams with the talent to threaten us.
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  #6672  
Old 07-27-2012, 11:26 AM
Quote:
The '92 Dream Team paved the way for all of us... We understand what they did for our game, but we also are big-time competitors as well, so if we got the opportunity to play them in a game we feel like we would win too.
-- LeBron James

This is exactly why people do not like Lebron James. He just says stupid things. He should learn how to talk to the media.

This is to James (as if he would read it)
You are not Michael Jordan. You will never be Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan would never lose to a punk ass choking bitch like you, EVER! The only way you would beat the 1992 is in your quotes. You and Kobe would get your ass kicked. The 1992 Dream Team is head and shoulders above your team.

David Robinson and Patrick Ewing would dominate over Chandler and he would be on the bench in foul trouble the whole fucking game. Then who do you have at center? No one else will step up and stop those two.

Magic Johnson and John Stockton are pure passers and Magic can score. Chris Paul And Deron Williams are good, but no where near in the league as Magic or Stockton and both their defenses are better.

Jordan and Drexler are better than ever single one and there are a lot of the 2012 guards. Kobe is great, but Jordan is better. Michael Jordan is the greatest NBA player EVER. ANd Jordan was all NBA defense.

I give the 2012 team an edge with the forward position, but they are still small. Larry Bird was all, but done and Barkley would not be able to keep up with pace of the game or Lebron.

The biggest thing to me is the 2012 is weak mentally. They pretty much all wilt when they have some adversity and the pressure is on. The real Dream Team would crush them mentally. They would be too big and too talented to deal with. Plus, the real Dream Team is loaded with pure winners. Kobe is the only winner on this year's team. In the 7 game series, the 92 Dream team would win 4-1 Ewing and Robinson would each score 25, because the 12 team is too small and they are one true center. Jordan and Magic would shut down Durant and James. I would expect Jordan to put up 30 a game and a triple double from Magic. The thing to remember is with the 92 Dream Team, they hardly tried. They did not break a sweat the whole games. They played it like it was an All Star pick up game. There was not one team they had to get serious about and that is what they did. They could have won by 60 every game if they tried.
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  #6673  
Old 07-27-2012, 12:37 PM
I don't see anything wrong with what LeBron said. He's not analyzing each of the match-ups and breaking them down to explain to us why 2012 is better than 1992. It's all conjecture and doesn't really mean anything. It's no different than when a prime Muhammad Ali said he would've knocked out a prime Joe Louis. Of course everyone was mortified when he said it, but that doesn't seem so unreasonable now. Still, it's not like you can go on something other than numbers and speculation and say for sure what would've happened.

Also, I can't think of two players in NBA history more dogged for their mental toughness than Robinson and Ewing. Just saying.
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  #6674  
Old 07-27-2012, 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brando @$$ Fat View Post
I don't see anything wrong with what LeBron said. He's not analyzing each of the match-ups and breaking them down to explain to us why 2012 is better than 1992. It's all conjecture and doesn't really mean anything. It's no different than when a prime Muhammad Ali said he would've knocked out a prime Joe Louis. Of course everyone was mortified when he said it, but that doesn't seem so unreasonable now. Still, it's not like you can go on something other than numbers and speculation and say for sure what would've happened.

Also, I can't think of two players in NBA history more dogged for their mental toughness than Robinson and Ewing. Just saying.
Ewing yes. Robinson, really? I don't think so. Ewing Hakeem was an awesome finals. I am not a Knick fan, but I always thought Ewing got a bad rap. He was a really quality player for a long time.


Also, Joe Louis would have killed Ali in their primes.
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  #6675  
Old 07-28-2012, 02:05 AM
There seems to be 2 very different debates about the Dream Team topic and everyone on tv seems to be confusing them.

Which team was "better?" - everyone points to the fact that the '92 team had 11 hall of famers and (off the top of my head) 17 rings. This team will get nowhere near that. It's not close.

Who would win in a game? - much different topic. Yes, Magic Johnson is better than any point guard on this team, but it's known he got torched by Bobby Hurley in a practice game. He was slow at that age. Chris Paul would eat him alive. No one on the original team could guard Lebron James or Kevin Durant. People like that just didn't exist back then. If you actually break down the matchups, one-by-one, it's much closer than you think. Again, taking into account a hypothetical matchup, not a "who's better" history debate. I will say this: the best lineup of the 2012 team makes a much more complete, balanced team than the best lineup from the Dream Team.

2012 - Chandler, Lebron, Durant, Kobe, Paul. Great perimeter defense, great interior defense and help defense. On offense, you have balance with an elite shooter, a great pick-and-roll pair, and two of the best one-on-one players of all time. Kobe is also very effective off the ball (underrated aspect of his game, but he finds open spots and is a pretty decent spot up shooter when given the chance).

1992 - What's their best lineup? Obviously, Jordan and Barkley are there (there was no contest between Barkely and Malone back then). I think Robinson probably is on the court instead of Ewing. Then what? Do you put the old Magic in over Stockton? Stockton is a better shooter, and neither of them could stay with a quick point guard. Who's the other forward? If you don't have Mullin out there, you don't have any shooting. But if you do, he has to guard Durant or Lebron (AHAHAHAHAHAHA). If you put Pippen in for defense, no shooting. If you put in Malone, again, no shooting, but that forces a tough matchup on the other end (James is such a beast he could probably guard Malone, but Barkley would bully all 145 lbs of Durant).

This team is more balanced, mainly because they have to be. Back in '92, I think any 12 NBA guys would've cruised to the Gold. Not much thought was put in how the guys would complement each other. It was about recognition: getting the big stars to committ and create a trend for the future guys. They didn't have to mesh well. If they did, Tim Hardaway is a backup point guard (for speed purposes, and I know no one wanted Isiah), Bird isn't on the team at all (his back gave out at that point), Joe Dumars probably makes it (best on the ball defender at that time and a better jump shooter than all the other guards), Drexler probably comes off (again, Dumars would be a better fit as MJ's backup) and gets replaced by Dominique (to makeup for Drexler's athleticism) or maybe Tom Chambers (could play multiple positions in international ball). Does Reggie Miller make it over Mullin? It's so hard to tell, but the point is, as a team, the Dream Team didn't mesh as well as we think they did. They just didn't have any comp, so it didn't really matter.

So, in summary, 1992 team has better credentials and that will never change. On the court, it's much closer than people seem to be making it out. If this current team was healthy (Howard, Wade, Rose) and could match the depth of the dream team, I'd say it'd be a 7 game series. As it stands, I think Dream Team wins in 5.

Any one who says the current team couldn't get a game from the Dream Team just doesn't watch basketball. Weird things happen on the court.
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  #6676  
Old 07-28-2012, 02:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
Ewing yes. Robinson, really? I don't think so.
Robinson wasn't considered weak mentally, but people thought he was just "too nice." Didn't have a killer instinct. It's not that he choked or anything, but he was very placid. He still averaged 20 and 10 for 6 or 7 straight years in the playoffs.
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  #6677  
Old 07-28-2012, 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Kenshin View Post
Robinson wasn't considered weak mentally, but people thought he was just "too nice." Didn't have a killer instinct. It's not that he choked or anything, but he was very placid. He still averaged 20 and 10 for 6 or 7 straight years in the playoffs.
I can see that.
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  #6678  
Old 08-09-2012, 12:10 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--la...d-to-l-a-.html
Quote:
The Orlando Magic and Los Angeles Lakers are engaged with the Denver Nuggets and Philadelphia 76ers in a four-way blockbuster that could ultimately deliver superstar center Dwight Howard to the Lakers, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

A deal is not considered imminent, but the talks have grown serious over the course of this week, sources said.

There are multiple moving parts in the fluid talks, but the framework of a possible deal includes Howard and Denver forward Al Harrington going to the Lakers, Philadelphia guard Andre Iguodala going to the Nuggets, Los Angeles center Andrew Bynum moving to the 76ers, and Los Angeles forward Pau Gasol and Denver guard Arron Affalo going to the Magic, sources told Yahoo! Sports.

The Magic would have a better chance of moving Gasol in another deal to get further assets, sources said, and eliminate the risk of Bynum leaving them as a free agent in 2013. Nevertheless, there was still a sense that Gasol's and Bynum's destinations could be fluid in the talks. Either way, one would go to Orlando and the other to Philadelphia, sources said.

The proposed deal includes the Magic also gaining draft picks and salary-cap relief, sources said.
Not that I think this has a chance of happening, but if it did it would be incredibly stupid for the Lakers. You give up Gasol and Bynum for a guy who will probably bail on you for the Nets and a guy well past his prime? Honestly, at this point I would just sign Bynum to an extension, pick up a few more free agent pieces and call it a day.

Last edited by Bourne101; 08-09-2012 at 12:12 PM..
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  #6679  
Old 08-09-2012, 01:24 PM
That can't happen. The Lakers have been adamant that they don't want to lose both Gasol and Bynum in any Howard deal. I don't know what would've changed their minds.
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  #6680  
Old 08-09-2012, 10:27 PM
Well, I was sort of right...

Lakers got Howard, but didn't give up Gasol in the deal. I knew there was no way they'd give up Bynum and Gasol, especially since they don't have any other quality forwards who can fill in for Pau.

Very good deal for LA, as Howard's defense is a huge upgrade (and they need interior D). Also a great deal for Philly, who get a great young center and even though they lose Iguodala, they have enough guys who can play either the 3 or the 4 that they won't miss him so much. It's also great for Denver, as Iguodala gives them another athletic wing player who can run the floor, but instantly becomes the best perimeter defender they've had in ages (he's one of the 5 best in the whole NBA in my opinion).

But... how is this good for Orlando? They only dumped one salary (Richardson's), the best player they got in return is Afflalo (solid, but not even an All-Star), and the draft picks they got are all protected. I know hindsight is 20/20, but they turned down a few offers better than this one in this process. The first major move by the new GM is certainly not a great one.
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