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C'mon Hollywood: Greenlight Bill and Ted 3!

Mar. 20, 2012by:

With the recent announcement that the script for a third Bill and Ted adventure had been completed, the fan reaction was almost unanimous; Excellent! The script will now make its way through the studio system with numbers crunched, marketability questioned, and the bankability of its stars examined, while we fans wait for the one word we all want to hear: Greenlight!

There are scripts floating around the lake of Hollywood like dead fish in a nuclear fallout, which isn’t to say they aren’t any good, there’s just a shitload of ‘em out there. Now, even though we haven’t read the script, the fact that Alex Winter and Keanu Reeves have collaborated to create something they feel is appropriate, timely, and ripe for exploration is all we need to get excited and hope for the absolute best.

"Ted, while I agree that, in time, our band will be most triumphant. The truth is, Wyld Stallyns will never be a super band until we have Eddie Van Halen on guitar."

The first Bill and Ted film, BILL AND TED’S EXCELLENT ADVENTURE was a modestly budgeted film that starred Reeves and Winter as two aspiring rockers who were, well, not very good. However, their excellent adventure led them through time to collect enough information (or, people, in this case) to deliver a worthy history report. It was an unexpected hit and connected with audiences immediately, becoming an instant classic with a multitude of quotes to follow to this day, including the use of the word “dude,” into mainstream youth culture, which lives on to this day.

The sequel, BILL AND TED’S BOGUS JOURNEY took our heroes through another type of adventure, this time through the realms of the afterlife, escorted by death himself, played brilliantly by William Sadler. Sadler nearly stole the show, taking the grim reaper into a fish-out-of-water environment as he dealt with Bill and Ted, making him an engaging and hilarious character. Of course, there were our requisite favorites from the first film, the late George Carlin as Rufus, Evil Bill and Ted, Robot Bill and Ted, and of course, Station! BOGUS JOURNEY ended up being a hit as well, and, in my opinion, surpassed the original. It took the initial concept and really ran with it, giving our heroes a worthy journey to explore their personalities and challenging them to overcome their demons, all while retaining that goofy, off-kilter sense of humor and out-there visuals, creatures, and scenarios.

"You might be a king or a little street sweeper, but sooner or later you dance with the reaper."

It’s a simple concept, but made new and fresh with outlandish characters, quote-worthy dialogue, and an imaginative environment, even when replicating the “real” world.  Bill and Ted delivered a wholesomely original concept that left two awesome films as its legacy. Keanu Reeves went on to massive success by learning kung fu, saving bus passengers from a bomb, and “lawyering” up with the devil. Alex Winter stayed more behind the scenes, but managed to have a respectable career, although nothing on the scale of Reeves’. And that’s okay. Winter is still cool and never got into any shenanigans that brought his character into question (no masturbation in movie theaters, blowjobs from hookers, or throwing phones in hotels…that we know of). In essence, our two lead actors remain as likable as their counterparts of Bill and Ted: Aloof, silly, fun, and respectable.

"They do get better."

The untimely death of George Carlin leaves a gap to be filled, but not recreated. Rufus deserves to have his legacy left intact, however a comedic guide is still needed for the film’s heritage. It’s likely there’s a character similar in the script and my suggestion for that role would be Zack Galifianakis, Danny McBride, or Louie C.K. They each have their own brand of comedy, as Carlin did, that could segue nicely into the franchise.

Bill and Ted’s journey in the previous films always hinted at and teetered on their future. Twenty years later, there’s no better time than now to explore where the boys ended up and to give them a new journey that will take them through their lives and other worlds once again. It’s not about completing a trilogy or even laying the foundation for a new one, it’s simply about telling another story about these characters and making a good film that can stand up to the previous two.

"This is not what I expected this place to look like at all."
"We got totally lied to by our album covers, man."

We are inundated with so many unnecessary sequels, reboots, and warmed over stories these days, and now we finally have a property worthy of a continuation. To deny these characters another day on stage would be a tragic injustice. We put up with enough bullshit so its imperative to support a project that actually deserves to be made, rather than one that's being shoved down our throats.  For once, I'd like to see the good guys win.

Until Bill and Ted grace the screen again, remember to be excellent to each other…and Party On, Dudes!

 

Extra Tidbit: Anyone remember Alex Winter's sketch comedy show The Idiot Box on MTV? I thought it was pretty damn fun at the time with a very distinct Bill and Ted "vibe" to it, just a little more batshit crazy. Check it out.
Source: JoBlo.com

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1:04AM on 03/30/2012

People forget who Bill & Ted are

I'm for this. Alex Winter and Keanu know who Bill & Ted are. Winter, especially, has proven this over the years in extensive interviews. Most of you guys in this talkback are wrong. Bill & Ted are NOT slackers. And they're NOT dumb. No one that uses the English language in the way that Bill & Ted do can be considered dumb. What they are is oblivious to that which they do not hold personal value in. They didn't know basic history (and one assumes most other subjects) because the topic (and more
I'm for this. Alex Winter and Keanu know who Bill & Ted are. Winter, especially, has proven this over the years in extensive interviews. Most of you guys in this talkback are wrong. Bill & Ted are NOT slackers. And they're NOT dumb. No one that uses the English language in the way that Bill & Ted do can be considered dumb. What they are is oblivious to that which they do not hold personal value in. They didn't know basic history (and one assumes most other subjects) because the topic (and more importantly the method of which the material was delivered to them in school) didn't interest them. However, they didn't feel any negative feelings toward school either -- other than frustration when they saw it effecting them in a direct negative way. And they STILL didn't blame school. Or even Ted's dad. They are almost incapable of negative response toward others (except in the most dire situations), and this is what makes them -- at least in the fantasy of these movies kind of way -- a perfect foundation to build world peace on. What make Bill & Ted Bill & Ted is not immaturity.

Bill & Ted, as they met the historical figures, showed genuine interest and eventually excitement (during the final presentation) in their new-found knowledge. Because they got to experience it the way they like to experience everything in their lives: through interaction with fun people.

By Bogus Journey, they had the best full time job their education could afford them. No doubt, their inability (and disinterest and unawareness) in playing the "game" to find a better-paying job led to their minimum wage job at Pretzels and Cheese. But Bill & Ted had dreams. And they worked for them.

Bill & Ted are not slackers, they're not dumb. The entire premise of those movies is built on how important they are in the future -- their philosophy. Their way of looking at the world. When they see something they don't like, they rarely get angry -- they simply go away, and try to experience what they do like: cool people and fun times. But unlike The Dude, they are willing to work (and put themselves in danger) to achieve that goal. That's not a slacker. A utopian dreamer, perhaps, but not a slacker. Their personalities and way of life have nothing to do with immaturity, and are EASILY transferable to adulthood -- that's the whole point! And that's why I'm excited for this.
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2:01PM on 03/20/2012
Bill S Preston Esquire, and Ted Theodore Logan MUST RETURN. That would be most triumphant.
Bill S Preston Esquire, and Ted Theodore Logan MUST RETURN. That would be most triumphant.
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+6
1:17PM on 03/20/2012

I'm fine either way.

Remember that you should always leave your audience wanting more, not thinking they've had enough; which is about where I am with these.

I will admit that reading this definitely made me want to go back and watch the first two!
Remember that you should always leave your audience wanting more, not thinking they've had enough; which is about where I am with these.

I will admit that reading this definitely made me want to go back and watch the first two!
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11:38AM on 03/20/2012
I am going to have to disagree with this article. Now don't get me wrong I liked the Bill & Ted movies for their foolish fun. The thing is, Bill & Ted are young archetypes. They work as a capsule of a certain time (the 80's) and a certain age (high school) there is an innocence about them. The original actors are all out. You can't go back there. And re-casting or re-booting it seems senseless. Any reboot would take a modern approach and lose that typical 80's thing. Keanu and Alex
I am going to have to disagree with this article. Now don't get me wrong I liked the Bill & Ted movies for their foolish fun. The thing is, Bill & Ted are young archetypes. They work as a capsule of a certain time (the 80's) and a certain age (high school) there is an innocence about them. The original actors are all out. You can't go back there. And re-casting or re-booting it seems senseless. Any reboot would take a modern approach and lose that typical 80's thing. Keanu and Alex coming back would never BE Bill & Ted. Bill & Ted are eternal teenagers. I'm going to say that this would be an EPIC fail no matter how you approach it, let's just let Bill & Ted alone.
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10:35AM on 03/20/2012
No matter what the script, Alex Winter and Keanu Reeves must return to their roles.
No matter what the script, Alex Winter and Keanu Reeves must return to their roles.
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10:14AM on 03/20/2012
Doesn't need to be wrung through the hollywood executives & producers or they will ruin every piece of it, they should just get it made independent & have Alex Winter himself direct it. This is what the fans want & its time to finally get the upper hand for once. The last thing we need is another situation similar to Ghostbusters 3. The difference being this movie needs to happen.
Doesn't need to be wrung through the hollywood executives & producers or they will ruin every piece of it, they should just get it made independent & have Alex Winter himself direct it. This is what the fans want & its time to finally get the upper hand for once. The last thing we need is another situation similar to Ghostbusters 3. The difference being this movie needs to happen.
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9:09AM on 03/20/2012

The Idiot Box

I remember there was a character on The Idiot Box named Lockjaw. He was a cop who had stepped on a rusty nail during a chase and gotten Tetanus. The running joke was that he would drool uncontrollably and could never close his mouth. Lockjaw would be drinking at a bar and throw back a shot just to have it pour out all over the bar. Hilarious.
I remember there was a character on The Idiot Box named Lockjaw. He was a cop who had stepped on a rusty nail during a chase and gotten Tetanus. The running joke was that he would drool uncontrollably and could never close his mouth. Lockjaw would be drinking at a bar and throw back a shot just to have it pour out all over the bar. Hilarious.
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5:38AM on 03/20/2012
I'm down as long as the script is as good as they say it is, and as long as they get a good director! They also need to be able to stand up to the director if their going in a direction that is not right!
I'm down as long as the script is as good as they say it is, and as long as they get a good director! They also need to be able to stand up to the director if their going in a direction that is not right!
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5:49AM on 03/20/2012
Alex Winter has become an accomplished director over the years, I'd actually like to see him take a crack at this. Keep it in the family y'know!?
Alex Winter has become an accomplished director over the years, I'd actually like to see him take a crack at this. Keep it in the family y'know!?
10:22AM on 03/20/2012
If not Alex Winter to direct why not get the director of the original movie Stephen Herek to do it, since he is now doing DTV movie starring Triple H, sure he needs the work & of course knows the characters.
If not Alex Winter to direct why not get the director of the original movie Stephen Herek to do it, since he is now doing DTV movie starring Triple H, sure he needs the work & of course knows the characters.
3:52AM on 03/20/2012
The people who are bashing this idea obviously weren't fans of Bill and Ted to begin with so fuck'em! Bring on part 3! The potential script idea sounds great and everyone is on board.
The people who are bashing this idea obviously weren't fans of Bill and Ted to begin with so fuck'em! Bring on part 3! The potential script idea sounds great and everyone is on board.
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5:00AM on 03/20/2012
Or we are fans, but we also remember what happens when a fanbase puts too much faith in a long awaited sequel and then moans and groans after it turns out it sucks about how Hollywood is unoriginal and they should have let a great movie just be great without trying to add more to it. Lest we forget the great Indiana Jones war of 2007-08 with IJII on the horizon and the ongoing Ghostbusters 3 civil war between Akyroyd and Murray, with fans caught between the two.

Just saying, no need to
Or we are fans, but we also remember what happens when a fanbase puts too much faith in a long awaited sequel and then moans and groans after it turns out it sucks about how Hollywood is unoriginal and they should have let a great movie just be great without trying to add more to it. Lest we forget the great Indiana Jones war of 2007-08 with IJII on the horizon and the ongoing Ghostbusters 3 civil war between Akyroyd and Murray, with fans caught between the two.

Just saying, no need to speak for us just because we are not of the same views.
6:06AM on 03/20/2012
I can see fans being scared because of the curse of later day sequels but hey, every curse can be broken right?
I can see fans being scared because of the curse of later day sequels but hey, every curse can be broken right?
-1
2:31AM on 03/20/2012

hmmmmm......?????

Where's a "Comon Hollywood" be creative article, as in no reboots, prequels, or overdue sequels.
Not sure how i feel about seeing a 3rd instalment. I can't see these actors acting as immature, & childish as in the first 2 films. & if they were to do a later in life with families & such. I don't think it would fit well with the first 2 films either. However can't say i hate the idea either
Where's a "Comon Hollywood" be creative article, as in no reboots, prequels, or overdue sequels.
Not sure how i feel about seeing a 3rd instalment. I can't see these actors acting as immature, & childish as in the first 2 films. & if they were to do a later in life with families & such. I don't think it would fit well with the first 2 films either. However can't say i hate the idea either
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1:45AM on 03/20/2012
I don't know what to say. On the one hand, it would be long overdue, but on the other we have to consider two things.

1) The long, overdue Sequel never works.
2) What could possibly happen?

The first is self-explanatory (and on a sidenote, I'm surprised to see a Joblo writer in support of it, not a bad thing, but still). See: Indiana Jones 4, Die Hard 4, Star Wars Prequels, etc.

The latter: shouldn't they be world changing stars by now? Unless some crazy event happens a la
I don't know what to say. On the one hand, it would be long overdue, but on the other we have to consider two things.

1) The long, overdue Sequel never works.
2) What could possibly happen?

The first is self-explanatory (and on a sidenote, I'm surprised to see a Joblo writer in support of it, not a bad thing, but still). See: Indiana Jones 4, Die Hard 4, Star Wars Prequels, etc.

The latter: shouldn't they be world changing stars by now? Unless some crazy event happens a la Terminator, the "future" of the movies are actually now the present times. Unless the point is that they never found actual success while alive or something like that, which a part three is apt to pull a "well, we made you think...but...", it wouldn't make sense why middle aged rockers who always knew they'd be successful would have anything to do by now in the vein of their earlier adventures.

Also: Carlin's dead.
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3:18AM on 03/20/2012
1) See Balboa and Clerks 2
2) That's the question I'm dying to find out!
The future of the movies isn't present time, its 2088 in the first one and 2091 in the second, and from what Alex Winter said the movie is about Bill & Ted trying to save the world by creating the perfect song, and that I can get behind.
1) See Balboa and Clerks 2
2) That's the question I'm dying to find out!
The future of the movies isn't present time, its 2088 in the first one and 2091 in the second, and from what Alex Winter said the movie is about Bill & Ted trying to save the world by creating the perfect song, and that I can get behind.
4:56AM on 03/20/2012
1) Balboa? Really? Also: see Ghostbusters 3.

2)Word.
1) Balboa? Really? Also: see Ghostbusters 3.

2)Word.
5:35AM on 03/20/2012
How can I see Ghostbusters 3, when Bill Murray refuses to make it a possibility?
How can I see Ghostbusters 3, when Bill Murray refuses to make it a possibility?
5:50AM on 03/20/2012
That's the point, look to his reasoning.While saying that "no one wants to see fat old men running around" was humorous, it had a point. They are not as young as they used to be and these sort of movies are just shadows of their predecessors. The GB franchise is fine as is and needs not be touched, according to Murray and yet the others want to make it. The question comes down to, sure you could, but should you? Does B&T need a sequel? Would a mediocre one be better than none at all? I don't
That's the point, look to his reasoning.While saying that "no one wants to see fat old men running around" was humorous, it had a point. They are not as young as they used to be and these sort of movies are just shadows of their predecessors. The GB franchise is fine as is and needs not be touched, according to Murray and yet the others want to make it. The question comes down to, sure you could, but should you? Does B&T need a sequel? Would a mediocre one be better than none at all? I don't think so. The only difference between the two, is that Bill and Ted is gaining momentum, while Ghostbusters sits in the water waiting for Murray. While the nostalgia will be fun at first, the realization will come that maybe, just maybe, we didn't need it to enjoy what we already love, and now we will associate the franchise with a hint of bitterness and disappointment.
7:08AM on 03/20/2012
"no one wants to see fat old men running around" was never confirmed to be something Murray actually said. Anyone whose seen the animated series or read the comics knows there are plenty of Ghostbusters stories to be told but this is the B&T 3 thread so that's one for another day. Either way, this isn't like Batman Forever or Smokey & The Bandit 3 where the leads are not played by the same people and the script isn't done by the original writers. Mediocre is also not the same as awful and you
"no one wants to see fat old men running around" was never confirmed to be something Murray actually said. Anyone whose seen the animated series or read the comics knows there are plenty of Ghostbusters stories to be told but this is the B&T 3 thread so that's one for another day. Either way, this isn't like Batman Forever or Smokey & The Bandit 3 where the leads are not played by the same people and the script isn't done by the original writers. Mediocre is also not the same as awful and you can never unmake the first two movies. If this movie blows (and fingers crossed it won't) can't we all just pretend it doesn't exist and go on loving the first two? I think the benefits of seeing Bill & Ted on the big screen again and the chance that this movie will be excellent (pun intended) out weigh the fears that it won't be. I'd also like to mention that Keanu took a pass on Speed 2 because the script sucked (which it did) and he agreed to do the Matrix sequels without reading the screenplays because of his friendship and faith in the Waschowski's (I don't think the dollar signs were a deterrent either) here, he and no one else involved has to do this movie if they don't want to but they dig the script so much that they're on board which has to count for something right?
4:52PM on 03/20/2012
It's not about who plays who in what movie, but whether it should even be an idea. Batman Forever was less of a sequel than a minor reboot, given the shift in style and tone, despite having a few recurring actors in the roles.

In terms of benefit vs. risk, the point I'm trying to get across is that since there have been few to no examples of a movie of this nature being a success in terms of fanbase reaction. Sure, Balboa is the closest to an exemption to the rule, but following Rocky
It's not about who plays who in what movie, but whether it should even be an idea. Batman Forever was less of a sequel than a minor reboot, given the shift in style and tone, despite having a few recurring actors in the roles.

In terms of benefit vs. risk, the point I'm trying to get across is that since there have been few to no examples of a movie of this nature being a success in terms of fanbase reaction. Sure, Balboa is the closest to an exemption to the rule, but following Rocky fighting the Russians singlehandedly with a robot butler is not hard and was not as bad as it could have been.

For Reeves? Speed 2 was not only disgustingly bad, but was one of those "here we go again" plots, where the same formula is applied to the same characters in an attempt to make $$ whereas Matrix 2 and 3 were continuations of a plot. Since we're on the subject, I'd like to point out than most anyone who were fans of the Matrix felt that most of 2 and all of 3 were a waste of time and neither needed to exist and quite frankly shouldn't have. So, apparently blind faith is not enough.
-5
1:30AM on 03/20/2012
Honestly, I can't see how a new film would fit in with today. Bill and Ted very much fit an 80's/90's motif of comedy. It was goofy fun with a couple of doofuses. Maybe for those of us that fondly remember these films from when we were young, but if you look at the kinds of comedies that come out these days that are similar to what Bill and Ted were, it rarely works. Times change, and so do tastes. And I just can't see how a new Bill and Ted film would fit in with today's comedy tastes.
Honestly, I can't see how a new film would fit in with today. Bill and Ted very much fit an 80's/90's motif of comedy. It was goofy fun with a couple of doofuses. Maybe for those of us that fondly remember these films from when we were young, but if you look at the kinds of comedies that come out these days that are similar to what Bill and Ted were, it rarely works. Times change, and so do tastes. And I just can't see how a new Bill and Ted film would fit in with today's comedy tastes.
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1:05AM on 03/20/2012
I couldn't agree more with this great article, STATION!!!!!!!!
I couldn't agree more with this great article, STATION!!!!!!!!
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2:46AM on 03/20/2012
Im not disagreeing with you, I'm purely playing devils advocate here by asking.. Do you really think a 3rd instalment would work today? and how? with the same motif they had in the first 2? or all grown up and mature? and if so.. do you think that would sit well when looking at all 3 films as a whole? Me personally i don't see it, i wish there was a way for a 3rd but separate from the first 2
Im not disagreeing with you, I'm purely playing devils advocate here by asking.. Do you really think a 3rd instalment would work today? and how? with the same motif they had in the first 2? or all grown up and mature? and if so.. do you think that would sit well when looking at all 3 films as a whole? Me personally i don't see it, i wish there was a way for a 3rd but separate from the first 2
3:23AM on 03/20/2012
I think it can work today more than it did in the last decade or mid 90's. And I think you can strike a balance between them being grown up and still being immature, kind of like the Dude in The Big Lebowski. How can it not sit well when watching all 3 back to back? At the end of Bogus Journey they were already aged so it makes sense. People are also forgetting abot Lil Bill & Lil Ted who have to be in their early 20's by now.
I think it can work today more than it did in the last decade or mid 90's. And I think you can strike a balance between them being grown up and still being immature, kind of like the Dude in The Big Lebowski. How can it not sit well when watching all 3 back to back? At the end of Bogus Journey they were already aged so it makes sense. People are also forgetting abot Lil Bill & Lil Ted who have to be in their early 20's by now.
5:05AM on 03/20/2012
Do you really want their kids to be involved? Every time it happens, when an iconic character deals with being a parent, it just ends in tears and regret and yet we find ourselves feverishly waiting for it time and time again.

If they can handle the material with the wit and brilliance of the Cohens' Lebowski, it may work. But this is also the Bill and Ted movies. As cool as they may be, they have a 99% chance of not quite getting to that point, mate.
Do you really want their kids to be involved? Every time it happens, when an iconic character deals with being a parent, it just ends in tears and regret and yet we find ourselves feverishly waiting for it time and time again.

If they can handle the material with the wit and brilliance of the Cohens' Lebowski, it may work. But this is also the Bill and Ted movies. As cool as they may be, they have a 99% chance of not quite getting to that point, mate.
5:43AM on 03/20/2012
@Indydan 13- Their kids were shown at the end of Bogus Journey, I'm not saying they need to be the new leads but it would be off if they were never mentioned. Just because Crystal Skulls got the progeny thing wrong doesn't mean B&T 3 will. In fact if they want to comment on the current state of rock music, which Alex Winter mentioned in his MTV interview then they almost need to have them there in some capacity to serve that commentary. The Dude is the most successful version of an aging
@Indydan 13- Their kids were shown at the end of Bogus Journey, I'm not saying they need to be the new leads but it would be off if they were never mentioned. Just because Crystal Skulls got the progeny thing wrong doesn't mean B&T 3 will. In fact if they want to comment on the current state of rock music, which Alex Winter mentioned in his MTV interview then they almost need to have them there in some capacity to serve that commentary. The Dude is the most successful version of an aging stoner I can think of and say they don't use him as a template, there's still Dave Grohl who happens to be a goofy yet hilarious aging rockstar in his own right.
6:04AM on 03/20/2012
Manning-

Crystal Skull is not the only one. Die Hard did it. Clerks touched on it (albeit, it was a pregnancy). Balboa did it too, but we definitely disagree there. Many sequels that aren't "overdue" rely on it too. Mummy 2/3, the jaws franchise, Godfather III, etc. When a movie relies on the children of the heroes to move the plot along, it will be considered ok at first and then over time will be considered a bad idea. Even after this lesson was learned, we are getting Die Hard 5, with
Manning-

Crystal Skull is not the only one. Die Hard did it. Clerks touched on it (albeit, it was a pregnancy). Balboa did it too, but we definitely disagree there. Many sequels that aren't "overdue" rely on it too. Mummy 2/3, the jaws franchise, Godfather III, etc. When a movie relies on the children of the heroes to move the plot along, it will be considered ok at first and then over time will be considered a bad idea. Even after this lesson was learned, we are getting Die Hard 5, with McClane's son this time around.

The story was wrapped up nicely. They have kids, the babes, and can actually play music. Do we really need a commentary on the Beiber fever generation? There are far too many possibilities for that to go horribly wrong (such as a moment where Reeves and Winter come off as bitter, not as the friggin heroes they could be).

As for the rest. You brought up Lebowski, so I had to counter. The thing with Lebowski is that he already lived a life by the time he went slacker. All the political protesting and activism led to a slow paced life. These would be men just past their prime by a few years. Thus, where the issue of handling comes from. If they are still slackers by 2012, then the ending of BJ falls flat. Sure Grohl is the last true Rock star, and does give commentary on the current state of music, but it very different from Bill and Ted. He's an intelligent, witty, musical genius and these two didn't know Napoleon from a hole in the ground by high school and had to rely on time travel just to learn how to play the guitar. The dynamic wouldn't work.

In the end, we need to think for a moment: Does the desire to see this made outweigh the fear it could suck? By the time this gets released, all we'll hear is complaints over how it doesn't stay true to the original and looks like crap/didn't age well.

Just saying, "Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results".
6:50AM on 03/20/2012
@Indydan 13-Its not just a commentary on the "Bieber Fever" generation, I'm pretty sure writers Chris Matheson and Ed Solomon have way more to say than that and Die Hard 4's problem wasn't McClain's daughter it was that a) Willis sleepwalked through his performance and b) they had McClain flying motorcycles into helicopters and the like and were not in touch with what made the character/series great, the PG-13 rating and Len Wiseman at the helm certainly didn't make matters any better. The
@Indydan 13-Its not just a commentary on the "Bieber Fever" generation, I'm pretty sure writers Chris Matheson and Ed Solomon have way more to say than that and Die Hard 4's problem wasn't McClain's daughter it was that a) Willis sleepwalked through his performance and b) they had McClain flying motorcycles into helicopters and the like and were not in touch with what made the character/series great, the PG-13 rating and Len Wiseman at the helm certainly didn't make matters any better. The story in Godfather III with Michael's daughter wasn't so much an issue for me as the fact that Sophia Coppola had no screen presence, that as well as Robert Duvall refusing to be in it when the character of Tommy was originally supposed to play a larger part and that convoluted Vatican nonsense also royally screwed over that film. The story of B & T is also not over, at the end of Bogus Journey they won the battle of the bands and got good at their instruments but we still have no idea how exactly that lead into the utopian future they were supposed to bring about. I never viewed Bill & Ted as particularly stupid because their dialogue has shown that they rely on words like triumphant, excellent, savory, chaste, etc (and use them properly) they always just came off as young and slightly ignorant of historical events to me yet they had a touch of wisdom. By the end of each movie they show that they have reasonable smarts to accomplish their goals, part of why I'm intrigued to see this movie is to watch how much they've progressed (or haven't) since the Bogus Journey. The problem with most later day sequels is that a majority aren't written by the original creators like this one will be, sure Lucas came up with the story for Skulls but he also came up with the entire screenplays for the Star Wars prequels so he's not a swell indicator of how good later day sequels can be. With the original writers and Winter and Reeves approval I honestly can't see how this can suck, they had a long time to get this story right and everyone involved seems to care. Which is another thing that makes this movie different than any other filmed you named, all of the others seemed to be the filmakers going through the motions instead of making something because they believed in the idea.
5:18PM on 03/20/2012
Bieber-I'm sure, but for sake of brevity, that's where I took it.

McClane/Corleone-It wasn't necessarily the performance that was the issue, but rather that the plot couldn't rest with just the protagonist. McClane needed the daughter plot just to sex it up and give him a reason to care (since they didn't learn that the "wife" plotline didn't work out too well for Die Harder) and Godfather III was not about Michael's struggle with becoming a cruel bastard mob boss, but how he struggles with
Bieber-I'm sure, but for sake of brevity, that's where I took it.

McClane/Corleone-It wasn't necessarily the performance that was the issue, but rather that the plot couldn't rest with just the protagonist. McClane needed the daughter plot just to sex it up and give him a reason to care (since they didn't learn that the "wife" plotline didn't work out too well for Die Harder) and Godfather III was not about Michael's struggle with becoming a cruel bastard mob boss, but how he struggles with the younger family members: daughter issues, nephew issues, etc. Sophia Coppola wouldn't have had to give a shit performance if Francis didn't make her such an integral part. All the other factors you mentioned are true, but I was touching on the fact that the "progeny causes trouble for/gives protagonist stuff to do" plotlines are the root of many of the issues. Sure Wiseman was in charge and did his own screwing up, the daughter included, and Coppola lost his touch years ago, but the children story is just as much to blame as helicopters and a dead Sophia Coppola. Well, actually the latter did help the film immensely as it was the only enjoyment anyone got.

B&T story-True, we don't know that for sure, but is that a story that needs telling. We weren't 100% on how Anakin became Vader, but sometimes not knowing is better than knowing.

Intelligence-They definitely had street smarts, but in comparison to the Dude or Dave Grohl, they are complete idiots. Young, yes, but ignorant of just about everything that happens around them. These were the kinds of guys who would have made us shake our heads in high school as to their stupidity, gain minor fame as a local band, break up the band in favor of getting real jobs/die of drug overdosage in obscurity, only to have their music discovered posthumously and then become an influence. Jimi Hendrix was hardly a mainstream success by the time he died, and yet he changed the music world forever. This is the only logical direction the film could go, which I'm sure would be met with thunderous applause...NOT (thank you Wayne Campbell), but it could also go the route of them as major successes, about to write the biggest song of their career being faced with either a new form of travelling beyond Earth (aliens, interdimensional beings, other shit that won't work) or a rehash of a previous one to overcome a conspiracy to undo their influence...AGAIN.

Same people issue-Blues Brothers 2000. Say what you will about Belushi, but this film lacked all the spark and originality of the original, despite being written by the exact same people and directed by the exact same man. Oh, and it had a kid in it. Since I'm sure that action man Wiseman didn't care about Die Hard, Spielberg/Lucas didn't care about IJ (even if the former just wanted to get it done instead of continuing to wait for a better script), Coppola didn't care about the finale to his name-making franchise, and so on and so forth, but just because they want to do it(and I feel like a broken record here, so maybe I'm insane too, given my quote) does not mean they should. We don't need this, we want this. Yo u said, and I quote, "With the original writers and Winter and Reeves approval I honestly can't see how this can suck, they had a long time to get this story right and everyone involved seems to care". That is the rationale every fan has ever given for any long awaited sequel. Look to them now and ask yourself if you really want this trend to continue, or if you want to buck the trend not by making this good (and ushering in more and more shitty ones) or just letting a great set of movies stand as they are and maybe get these creative forces to work on something else that could be truly great. Lord knows Reeves needs a comeback.
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