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Edgar Wright leaving Ant-Man; does Marvel have too much control?

May. 28, 2014by:

The news of Edgar Wright leaving ANT-MAN dealt a heavy blow to both fans of film and of Marvel. Not just for the film itself, but for what's being alluded to, as far as how Marvel is running its cinematic sector.  Word on the street is that Wright left due to "creative differences".  It was speculated that there had been some last-minute re-writes that came down from above, and Wright himself felt that his vision was no longer in line with what Marvel wanted, so he walked.  That's a hard thing to do, especially given how long Edgar Wright has been invested in the project.  Furthermore, whatever director is hired to shoot ANT-MAN, will no doubt in part use some of the concepts put in place by Wright.

This image was originally tweeted by Edgar Wright, and then removed.

The picture above is of Buster Keaton, who after taking a job at MGM, later called it the "worst decision of his life" due to loss of independence. The picture had been photoshopped to add a Cornetto, the trademark of Wright's Cornetto trilogy (SHAUN OF THE DEAD, HOT FUZZ, THE WORLD'S END). Despite the lack of an official statement from Wright, that picture was all that we needed to verify what had been speculated, and that Wright chose not to give up creative control in order to make a product.

Joss Whedon, being the class act that he is, responded in kind.

Now that some time has passed, some insiders claim that some of the department heads have left as well, which may put production in a bit of a pickle (temporary, of course). They also pretty much confirmed the creative differences, and had a few other things to say as far as how Marvel runs things.

Sources close to production had this to say about the split:

Kevin Feige (and the higher ups) run Marvel with a singularity of vision, but when you take a true auteur and throw him into the mix, this is what you get. They don't want you to speak up too much or have too much vision. People who have never worked there don't understand how they operate, but if you trust them, they have an amazing track record.

This pretty much falls in line with what fans fear most, in that Marvel might be looking more into creating a product they know will generate some serious revenue, rather than enlist filmmakers and trust in their vision. In all likelihood, it's probably half and half. After all, Avengers rings true of Joss Whedon's style, through and through, so what gives? The director of GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY, James Gunn, also gave his two cents on the matter here, on what probably makes the most sense.

As James Gunn eloquently puts it:

Although it's sad to see them split, when they do, you're surprisingly relieved, and excited to see where their lives take them next. It's easy to try to make one party "right" and another party "wrong" when a breakup happens, but it often isn't that simple. Or perhaps it's even more simple than that — not everyone belongs in a relationship together. It doesn't mean they're not wonderful people."

I suppose in the end, it's probably somewhere in the middle that Marvel and Edgar Wright just were not able to meet. Given all the money that these Marvel movies are making, I would hope that they would be MORE open to letting filmmakers create their own vision of Marvel properties, and not less so. That's the tricky part of film-making; It's where art and business collide. Marvel has not budged the ANT-MAN release date of July 17, 2015, so I'm guessing we'll hear word of a new director or new release date soon. Regardless of their choice, I think we'll all miss what Wright would have brought to the table.

Extra Tidbit: How do you all feel about the split, and what that says (if anything) for filmmakers looking to embark on a Marvel cinematic venture?

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10:56PM on 05/30/2014
Marvel probably doesn't lend itself easily to personal artistic expression, but remember the last time they had an "auteur" take over one of their franchise characters? It was Ang Lee and his terrible Hulk film set the character back a decade.
Marvel probably doesn't lend itself easily to personal artistic expression, but remember the last time they had an "auteur" take over one of their franchise characters? It was Ang Lee and his terrible Hulk film set the character back a decade.
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9:02PM on 05/30/2014
Marvel is just treating their films like they do their comics. Or like a showrunner would for a TV series. It's like the Marvel movies are stand alone episodes of a TV series, and The Avengers is the season finale.
Marvel is just treating their films like they do their comics. Or like a showrunner would for a TV series. It's like the Marvel movies are stand alone episodes of a TV series, and The Avengers is the season finale.
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6:16PM on 05/30/2014

You know the whole reason Marvel formed "Marvel Studios" in the first place was so that they could have this level of control.

Yep.
Yep.
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12:42PM on 05/30/2014
As much as I wanted to see Edgar Wrights Ant-Man, Marvel will always be in control. They don't want to do anything that will tarnish their long established brand, even more so now that the movies are seen by most of the world. It's always been the same with the comics. The writers have as much freedom as Marvel allows them, but even editors and higher-ups will turn down potential stories if they don't want it to happen. Despite some bad decisions over the years with some characters and stories,
As much as I wanted to see Edgar Wrights Ant-Man, Marvel will always be in control. They don't want to do anything that will tarnish their long established brand, even more so now that the movies are seen by most of the world. It's always been the same with the comics. The writers have as much freedom as Marvel allows them, but even editors and higher-ups will turn down potential stories if they don't want it to happen. Despite some bad decisions over the years with some characters and stories, they will always keep them within the boundaries that they want. In the end Marvel will always have creative control. The directors, writers, and such are writing their characters. So Marvel will always have the final say.
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11:44AM on 05/29/2014

To be blunt...

I would rather have Marvel taking too much control and giving fans real comic book movies over allowing people to go off and do their own thing that could disrupt everything Marvel has worked on for the past 10 years.

So yeah, I like how Marvel has power. They have a much better track record than DC so maybe DC needs to tighten up its loose ends and stop putting out shit like Green Lantern and Man of Steel.
I would rather have Marvel taking too much control and giving fans real comic book movies over allowing people to go off and do their own thing that could disrupt everything Marvel has worked on for the past 10 years.

So yeah, I like how Marvel has power. They have a much better track record than DC so maybe DC needs to tighten up its loose ends and stop putting out shit like Green Lantern and Man of Steel.
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6:15PM on 05/30/2014
Amen, brother.
Amen, brother.
10:06AM on 05/29/2014

JOSS FOR THE LOSS

I understand the Hollywood politics at play here though it boggles my mind that Marvel is suddenly ready to throw out the guy they've been in bed with since 2006 (have they not seen his films in the meanwhile?). And it sucks that Wright is off the project but if Joss is gonna post a pic of himself showing solidarity then why do I have a feeling it means nothing to him? He'll continue to work with Marvel for the foreseeable future. Actions speak louder than Instagram posts. Either way, this news
I understand the Hollywood politics at play here though it boggles my mind that Marvel is suddenly ready to throw out the guy they've been in bed with since 2006 (have they not seen his films in the meanwhile?). And it sucks that Wright is off the project but if Joss is gonna post a pic of himself showing solidarity then why do I have a feeling it means nothing to him? He'll continue to work with Marvel for the foreseeable future. Actions speak louder than Instagram posts. Either way, this news sucks. Hopefully the movie won't.
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2:28PM on 05/29/2014
It could mean something to Joss without meaning enough for him to leave. It's not like Wright will have problems finding any other job here.
It could mean something to Joss without meaning enough for him to leave. It's not like Wright will have problems finding any other job here.
9:11AM on 05/29/2014
On one hand, I can see why Marvel wants every level of control on their properties. They probably don't want their characters be made into what most 1980s movies based on their characters were. On the other hand, Edgar Write is a director, writer. He has his own vision for the story, characters, etc. Surely there must be some kind of clashes between him and Marvel. For Marvel, I hope you can a director who is as good as Wright or even better. For Mr. Wright, go to DC and get back at Marvel. Or
On one hand, I can see why Marvel wants every level of control on their properties. They probably don't want their characters be made into what most 1980s movies based on their characters were. On the other hand, Edgar Write is a director, writer. He has his own vision for the story, characters, etc. Surely there must be some kind of clashes between him and Marvel. For Marvel, I hope you can a director who is as good as Wright or even better. For Mr. Wright, go to DC and get back at Marvel. Or better yet, create your own vision of superhero and consider ticket sold.
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8:30AM on 05/29/2014
Don't know why Buster Keaton looks so sad - his Cornetto is massive.

It's a shame Edgar Wright felt he had to split on this movie - hopefully he'll move onto something exciting and the AntMan movie won't end up a complete mess.
Don't know why Buster Keaton looks so sad - his Cornetto is massive.

It's a shame Edgar Wright felt he had to split on this movie - hopefully he'll move onto something exciting and the AntMan movie won't end up a complete mess.
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3:33AM on 05/29/2014
Sounds to me like a last minute decision by the coldly calculating moneymen. A sacrifice of originality and vision to mass-marketability. After so many years of preparation, after the excitement of Feige and Whedon in the project, it seems like downright betrayal. I doubt Wright was being too quirky, but think the suits are being too bland.
Sounds to me like a last minute decision by the coldly calculating moneymen. A sacrifice of originality and vision to mass-marketability. After so many years of preparation, after the excitement of Feige and Whedon in the project, it seems like downright betrayal. I doubt Wright was being too quirky, but think the suits are being too bland.
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6:12PM on 05/30/2014
Or as others could point out, it could be because the story Wright wanted to tell worked perfectly well in 2006 when he first began work on the script and Marvel didn't have an entire interconnected universe to worry about, and now, 8 years and 10 films later it just doesn't gel with the overall vision they have.

Or, you can just be a cynic and assume the worst of people.
Or as others could point out, it could be because the story Wright wanted to tell worked perfectly well in 2006 when he first began work on the script and Marvel didn't have an entire interconnected universe to worry about, and now, 8 years and 10 films later it just doesn't gel with the overall vision they have.

Or, you can just be a cynic and assume the worst of people.
1:08AM on 05/29/2014

You Know What's Sad?

That at the end of the day, Ant-Man will still go on to make more than enough money to garner a trilogy of its own, and Edgar Wright will eventually be yet another "what if" statistic in Marvel's history. I don't hate the studio; in fact I love it, but it's sad when directors who have such passion for their work leave because of studio interference. It'll be a miracle if they work things out though.
That at the end of the day, Ant-Man will still go on to make more than enough money to garner a trilogy of its own, and Edgar Wright will eventually be yet another "what if" statistic in Marvel's history. I don't hate the studio; in fact I love it, but it's sad when directors who have such passion for their work leave because of studio interference. It'll be a miracle if they work things out though.
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9:27PM on 05/28/2014
I think Marvel falls into the middle of the spectrum when it comes to studio control. On one hand you have The Dark Knight trilogy, which felt like Nolan movies with little studio input. On the other end you have the Amazing Spiderman series, where Marc Webb feels like a puppet for Sony and the studio is calling the shots. MCU has given some great films (Iron Man, Avengers, CA:TWS) and some bland films (Iron Man 3, Thor 2), but no real bombs so its hard to argue with their strategy. I do feel
I think Marvel falls into the middle of the spectrum when it comes to studio control. On one hand you have The Dark Knight trilogy, which felt like Nolan movies with little studio input. On the other end you have the Amazing Spiderman series, where Marc Webb feels like a puppet for Sony and the studio is calling the shots. MCU has given some great films (Iron Man, Avengers, CA:TWS) and some bland films (Iron Man 3, Thor 2), but no real bombs so its hard to argue with their strategy. I do feel like Marvel gave directors more control with phase 1, hence the bigger name directors. Wright would have been been the biggest name director on a MCU film since Whedon on Avengers.
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9:38AM on 05/29/2014
Sorry I had to do this... The Dark Knight trilogy is a DC product, not Marvel.
Sorry I had to do this... The Dark Knight trilogy is a DC product, not Marvel.
6:08PM on 05/30/2014
Yeah, and The Amazing Spider-Man isn't a Marvel Studios product, either. I believe his point was that in the grand scheme of how all of the studios are treating these kind of films Marvel falls somewhere "in the middle of the spectrum" with how much free-reign they're willing to give their directors.
Yeah, and The Amazing Spider-Man isn't a Marvel Studios product, either. I believe his point was that in the grand scheme of how all of the studios are treating these kind of films Marvel falls somewhere "in the middle of the spectrum" with how much free-reign they're willing to give their directors.
8:42PM on 05/28/2014
If Marvel had too much control, Shane Black wouldn't have been allowed to do the Mandarin twist in Iron Man 3. From Jon Favreau to Kenneth Branagh, these are fairly unconventional picks. The most conventional directorial choice is Louis Leterrier for The Incredible Hulk, a film that is often considered one of the weaker Phase I films.
If Marvel had too much control, Shane Black wouldn't have been allowed to do the Mandarin twist in Iron Man 3. From Jon Favreau to Kenneth Branagh, these are fairly unconventional picks. The most conventional directorial choice is Louis Leterrier for The Incredible Hulk, a film that is often considered one of the weaker Phase I films.
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7:50PM on 05/28/2014
Wright is a very talented director, but Marvel needs someone who would be able to follow their plan, as the events in "Ant-Man" will affect the other titles of the MCU somehow. If Wright tried to stray too far from that, to keep his sense of self, while understandable, so is Marvel and he breaking up over it. marvel has yet to disappoint me, so I believe this will be for the best in the long run.

I would still love to see a Wright corrected superhero film! His style would be amazing there,
Wright is a very talented director, but Marvel needs someone who would be able to follow their plan, as the events in "Ant-Man" will affect the other titles of the MCU somehow. If Wright tried to stray too far from that, to keep his sense of self, while understandable, so is Marvel and he breaking up over it. marvel has yet to disappoint me, so I believe this will be for the best in the long run.

I would still love to see a Wright corrected superhero film! His style would be amazing there,
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7:32PM on 05/28/2014
Yes I think Marvel runs a tight ship, directors are hired to shoot the movies they want, not directors with a lot of vision and style because those directors don't want to follow the guide and rules layed out, they want to push borders. Which is a great and rare thing in film today, sadly its not a great thing when working with already established characters who have a history in their stories because these directors are the ones pushing to make the big changes that the fans hate. Case and
Yes I think Marvel runs a tight ship, directors are hired to shoot the movies they want, not directors with a lot of vision and style because those directors don't want to follow the guide and rules layed out, they want to push borders. Which is a great and rare thing in film today, sadly its not a great thing when working with already established characters who have a history in their stories because these directors are the ones pushing to make the big changes that the fans hate. Case and point, it was Shane Blacks idea to change Mandrain. Marvel watches fan reactions closely, and are actually giving you what you want... But of course nobody will ever be happy.
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10:51PM on 05/28/2014
Totally agree with you DareDevil. Iron Man 2 was Marvel's fault, and they learned from it, but Iron Man 3, Ang Lee's Hulk, X-Men: The Last Stand, and many others were all movies that had the potential to be great but all ended up ticking off the majority of fans because of choices the directors made and in many cases fought for.
Totally agree with you DareDevil. Iron Man 2 was Marvel's fault, and they learned from it, but Iron Man 3, Ang Lee's Hulk, X-Men: The Last Stand, and many others were all movies that had the potential to be great but all ended up ticking off the majority of fans because of choices the directors made and in many cases fought for.
7:12PM on 05/28/2014
I was mostly excited for this film because of Wrights involvement, but I will also be the first to say that I prefer my comic movies with a bit more style or artistic flare, so its understandable if Marvel didn't want to go that way. In the end, this is probably for the best, as it seems like it really was "creative differences". Marvel has been putting out some really excellent movies over the past years, but I have been wondering also how long the comic king will stay at the top. No one is
I was mostly excited for this film because of Wrights involvement, but I will also be the first to say that I prefer my comic movies with a bit more style or artistic flare, so its understandable if Marvel didn't want to go that way. In the end, this is probably for the best, as it seems like it really was "creative differences". Marvel has been putting out some really excellent movies over the past years, but I have been wondering also how long the comic king will stay at the top. No one is there forever. I won't condemn them yet, because The Winter Soldier was one of the best comic movies that I have ever seen, but there have been signs that could indicate otherwise. Thor 2 was pretty good, but really not great, and obviously a lot of people weren't happy with the Iron Man 3 twist. Like any relationship, there has to be a balance to be successful. A great MCU film is going to come along when a talented director is willing to play ball by Marvel's rules, and in return the studio is willing to give a little to allow for some well thought out creativity.
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5:55PM on 05/28/2014
It's hard to judge without reading the scripts and know where they differ. I love Wright and was very much hoping this would work but knowing where Josh Trank goes with his artistic freedom with the Fantastic Four, I'm more inclined to leave the benefit of the doubt to the studio than I used to be.
It's hard to judge without reading the scripts and know where they differ. I love Wright and was very much hoping this would work but knowing where Josh Trank goes with his artistic freedom with the Fantastic Four, I'm more inclined to leave the benefit of the doubt to the studio than I used to be.
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4:51PM on 05/28/2014
When a studio doesn't have control or a vision for their properties you get films like Green Lantern, x-men 3, and Ang Lee's Hulk. While I enjoy Wrights movies he doesn't make films that feel like a big Hollywood spectacle and that is what marvel does and it's been working.
When a studio doesn't have control or a vision for their properties you get films like Green Lantern, x-men 3, and Ang Lee's Hulk. While I enjoy Wrights movies he doesn't make films that feel like a big Hollywood spectacle and that is what marvel does and it's been working.
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4:50PM on 05/28/2014
To put things in perspective, I believe Edgar Wright has been on this project since not too long after the first Iron Man's release (possibly closer to the second movie). Marvel Studios and their cinematic universe had not become the juggernaut that it is now. I think that back then Marvel was more open to Wright's version of Ant-Man.

Personally, I would have loved to see Wright's version. I understand Marvel's desire to keep their CU as consistent as possible, but I see it as huge
To put things in perspective, I believe Edgar Wright has been on this project since not too long after the first Iron Man's release (possibly closer to the second movie). Marvel Studios and their cinematic universe had not become the juggernaut that it is now. I think that back then Marvel was more open to Wright's version of Ant-Man.

Personally, I would have loved to see Wright's version. I understand Marvel's desire to keep their CU as consistent as possible, but I see it as huge double-edged sword. When trying to keep so many huge moving parts in line with each other you run the risk of homogenizing the whole thing. I wish there was a little more variety to the style and approach to the stories, and less a concern with fitting in with the bigger picture all the time. I just think that in the long run this might make things stale (if they aren't already, there are only so many times our heroes can fight a world/universe ending threat).

I really hope Marvel continues to make movies, but allows a little more diversity, and maybe allow for some stories to stand on their own.
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4:32PM on 05/28/2014
I think a lot of people are going over the top with Wright leaving. It's disappointing...and just as bad as when Norton did not continue as Bruce Banner...but Marvel have a very good track record at finding replacements. Given the success of their universe...something everyone else is trying to copy...them having too much control is clearly no bad thing. That said, I don't believe they're not prepared to let directors or writers do what they want. How else do you explain the nonsensical
I think a lot of people are going over the top with Wright leaving. It's disappointing...and just as bad as when Norton did not continue as Bruce Banner...but Marvel have a very good track record at finding replacements. Given the success of their universe...something everyone else is trying to copy...them having too much control is clearly no bad thing. That said, I don't believe they're not prepared to let directors or writers do what they want. How else do you explain the nonsensical twist (as funny as it was...ultimately, I feel cheated) that was allowed to play out in Iron Man 3...or an ending that suggested Stark was no longer needed as Iron Man. How different was the Winter Soldier? Did that even seem like a Marvel movie? It was the best Marvel movie by far. If Marvel disagreed with something Wright was doing...or more likely, Wright didn't want to add something Marvel wanted added...it's probably for the best. Nowhere has it been said, they're ditching what has been planned thus far...which suggest a lot of what Wright planned to do may still be there come the final product.
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4:10PM on 05/28/2014

Top 5 Replacement Choices

If the show is going to go one then these are my top picks (Joe Cornish would be THE obvious choice, but I really doubt he'd take over one of Wright's projects out of respect for him.). I feel like these are all pretty realistic:

1. Brad Bird (I know everyone lists him for stuff like this, but I really feel his style would be great for this)

2. Rian Johnson (DItto the above)

3. David Gordon Green (I think he's done enough mainstream stuff to show this isn't totally out of
If the show is going to go one then these are my top picks (Joe Cornish would be THE obvious choice, but I really doubt he'd take over one of Wright's projects out of respect for him.). I feel like these are all pretty realistic:

1. Brad Bird (I know everyone lists him for stuff like this, but I really feel his style would be great for this)

2. Rian Johnson (DItto the above)

3. David Gordon Green (I think he's done enough mainstream stuff to show this isn't totally out of question)

4. Lord & Miller (They're coasting off a ton of good will from the Lego Movie and I think this would legitimately be a good step for both them and Marvel)

5. Jason Reitman (I think overall he could be a good fit, he just has no experience with action films)

Also, thinking about David Gordon Green got me thinking, so you know who I'd really, really, really love to see a comic book movie? David O. Russell. If Sam Mendes can do Bond then I think there's hope.
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4:30PM on 05/28/2014
If anything, I think we should learn from this movie that when you pick a "name" director with reputation and a known style, they will come into conflict with Marvel's vision. Look at Cap 2, the directors had only made a handful of sitcom episodes before this and it was near perfect. Look at Incredible Hulk, with a seasoned action director, and that movie is close to the bottom of the MCU rankings. Pick an unknown with a good idea and make a star out of him/her.
If anything, I think we should learn from this movie that when you pick a "name" director with reputation and a known style, they will come into conflict with Marvel's vision. Look at Cap 2, the directors had only made a handful of sitcom episodes before this and it was near perfect. Look at Incredible Hulk, with a seasoned action director, and that movie is close to the bottom of the MCU rankings. Pick an unknown with a good idea and make a star out of him/her.
10:48PM on 05/28/2014
I would say Joss Whedon was a "name" director, maybe not with the general public, but most definitely within Marvel's target demographic and he had a very pronounced style, yet that still ended up being one of the best Marvel films. I think James Gunn was right, it all just comes down to two parties having a compatible vision for the project and that really has nothing to do with how recognizable or obscure a director is.
I would say Joss Whedon was a "name" director, maybe not with the general public, but most definitely within Marvel's target demographic and he had a very pronounced style, yet that still ended up being one of the best Marvel films. I think James Gunn was right, it all just comes down to two parties having a compatible vision for the project and that really has nothing to do with how recognizable or obscure a director is.
4:02PM on 05/28/2014
Yeah Marvel shouldn't be the bad guy got having too much creative control. I mean... The twist in Winter Soldier certainly changed a lot of things and every film and director has to be okay with the arc of the Universe Marvel is building. Perhaps Marvel has a story to tell in Avengers 3 that wouldn't work because of what Edgar wanted to do in Ant-Man. Any director who does a stand alone has to be a team player with Fiege and Whedon...

I think Edgar's movie would've been exciting... But it's
Yeah Marvel shouldn't be the bad guy got having too much creative control. I mean... The twist in Winter Soldier certainly changed a lot of things and every film and director has to be okay with the arc of the Universe Marvel is building. Perhaps Marvel has a story to tell in Avengers 3 that wouldn't work because of what Edgar wanted to do in Ant-Man. Any director who does a stand alone has to be a team player with Fiege and Whedon...

I think Edgar's movie would've been exciting... But it's time to move on. Don't blame Marvel
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4:02PM on 05/28/2014
The bad guy for* having too much creative control
The bad guy for* having too much creative control
4:01PM on 05/28/2014

No one needs to be the bad guy.

What Mr Gunn said is probably spot on. I doubt Wright was being all mardy and Marvel just wanted it closer to their vision. Wright, understandably, wants to make the film he wants. If he can't do that... Why bother? It'll only leave a bad taste in his mouth.
Maybe a Star Wars spin off could land in his lap, or even Star Wars VIII...
What Mr Gunn said is probably spot on. I doubt Wright was being all mardy and Marvel just wanted it closer to their vision. Wright, understandably, wants to make the film he wants. If he can't do that... Why bother? It'll only leave a bad taste in his mouth.
Maybe a Star Wars spin off could land in his lap, or even Star Wars VIII...
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3:54PM on 05/28/2014

I don't agree

Marvel should have control over their product and it should be their vision because we are not talking about Antman standalone or trilogy here. This is MCU we are talking about. If one part of this fails it will have an impact on the rest of the MCU. So it is very important the director sticks to the overall vision of Marvel while leaving his own mark on the movie.
Marvel should have control over their product and it should be their vision because we are not talking about Antman standalone or trilogy here. This is MCU we are talking about. If one part of this fails it will have an impact on the rest of the MCU. So it is very important the director sticks to the overall vision of Marvel while leaving his own mark on the movie.
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3:51PM on 05/28/2014

I love Edgar Wright's Movies, but you know what...

Fuck him and his creative vision. That's why, as a filmmaker, you go and do your own independent film after you make the studio their film. Because that's what it is.. Their film. He could have influenced the film through his directing duties, his style, which I love, but as far as writing goes, it was never his. When you are part of this giant story arc that spans years and billions of dollars, you have to play ball. Look what happen when they gave Shane Black creative control over the
Fuck him and his creative vision. That's why, as a filmmaker, you go and do your own independent film after you make the studio their film. Because that's what it is.. Their film. He could have influenced the film through his directing duties, his style, which I love, but as far as writing goes, it was never his. When you are part of this giant story arc that spans years and billions of dollars, you have to play ball. Look what happen when they gave Shane Black creative control over the cinematic legacy of THE MANDARIN, IRON MAN'S greatest foe. He shited on it, just for a quick shit joke, literally. That's probably why they are so protective of their scripts now. So Edgar Wright and King Tarantino ( whose films I also love) can both go to a dark night club, and suck each other's dicks, and tell one another how great the other is, and how us peasants can't possibly understand what they are going through.
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3:28PM on 05/28/2014
They are gonna find a "Yes Man" who will make the standard formulaic origin tale for Ant Man.
They are gonna find a "Yes Man" who will make the standard formulaic origin tale for Ant Man.
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3:14PM on 05/28/2014

To Be Fair...

Nothing in the "source close to the production" statement mentioned money. It said "singularity of vision". If Marvel has a universe of as much continuity as they can muster, a true auteur like Wright could have really messed things up for their creative vision.

Directors are very important to the production, obviously. But they can also be (from experience) the most arrogant, short sighted, exclusive, lunatics in the company. I once was acting for a seasoned vet and suggested that I read a
Nothing in the "source close to the production" statement mentioned money. It said "singularity of vision". If Marvel has a universe of as much continuity as they can muster, a true auteur like Wright could have really messed things up for their creative vision.

Directors are very important to the production, obviously. But they can also be (from experience) the most arrogant, short sighted, exclusive, lunatics in the company. I once was acting for a seasoned vet and suggested that I read a certain line differently than what he wanted, because there was a chance for a comedic beat. He fuckin' lost his mind and berated me in front of the company for "compromising his vision". They are not some mystical men who have all the right answers all the time and corporate suits are not always these evil bad guys who want all the money, but none of the creativity. Wright posts a picture of Keaton looking sad and we are so quick to blame Marvel, who has done a good job thus far. The other directors mentioned as having issues other than Favreau (who, in fairness, was probably not privy to the idea of the MCU at first) are not comic book guys. They are Shakespeare and fantasy experts, so their gripes likely had to do with reeling them in to maintain the universe, which a director would see as an insult, not as a collaborative decision. And yes, it's collaborative, since this is Marvel's universe and these are their characters.

I'm not saying they are incapable of making mistakes, I'm just saying ease up on the brakes until we get an actual description of what Wright wanted that Marvel hated or vice versa. If it turned out the suits wanted something like Kevin Smith's would be Superman movie (with a production screwing everything up to the point of insanity), I'll be the first to pick up a torch and pitchfork. However, it was an Auteur that brought us Dune. An auteur that brought us Showgirls. An auteur that brought us Phantom Menace. Maybe a little oversight is a good thing.
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2:58PM on 05/28/2014
Why wouldn't you post the whole James Gunn quote? You just have the end of it here and it makes a lot more sense when you know what he said before it. Here it is if anyone is interested: [link]

Also, Whedon posted that pic after the initial announcement of Wright's departure, not in response to Wright's tweet. Okay, I'm done being nitpicky.

Anyway, I'm inclined to agree with Gunn in that there's no clear cut good guy or bad guy here. You only need to look at the past MCU films to see
Why wouldn't you post the whole James Gunn quote? You just have the end of it here and it makes a lot more sense when you know what he said before it. Here it is if anyone is interested: [link]

Also, Whedon posted that pic after the initial announcement of Wright's departure, not in response to Wright's tweet. Okay, I'm done being nitpicky.

Anyway, I'm inclined to agree with Gunn in that there's no clear cut good guy or bad guy here. You only need to look at the past MCU films to see that the filmmakers have been allowed to put their own stamp on them. Heck, weren't there reports that Marvel told Gunn that "Guardians of the Galaxy" wasn't James Gunn-y enough while they were shooting?

That said, Marvel does have a vision for their cinematic universe, so while the filmmakers are allowed to put their stamp on these films, they also have to compromise a bit to fit with Marvel's vision. It seems like Wright and Marvel weren't able to reach a compromise. Which sucks, to be sure, but I don't think it's the end of the world like the internet's making it out to be.
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+1
2:57PM on 05/28/2014

I love Edgar Wright but...

I also really loved everything Shane Black had done before Iron Man 3 and to me that is the weakest of all the marvel movies because of all the slack he was given. Maybe Wright wanted to do his own thing also and Marvel wasnt ready to let him do artistic choices to their characters this time. We'll probably never know what the whole picture in this is but this might end up not being so bad.
I also really loved everything Shane Black had done before Iron Man 3 and to me that is the weakest of all the marvel movies because of all the slack he was given. Maybe Wright wanted to do his own thing also and Marvel wasnt ready to let him do artistic choices to their characters this time. We'll probably never know what the whole picture in this is but this might end up not being so bad.
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2:43PM on 05/28/2014
Agents of SHIELD had a slow start in many fans' opinion. Season One was a tale of two halves. Possibly, the slow start occurred because of corporate interference. The creative people, who tend to know comic books better anyways, were not allowed to do their jobs perhaps. We moviegoers could be witnessing a decline in Marvel Studio's product. Often, successful art gets enervated by sales department math. We shall see how Guardians of the Galaxy looks. Does it look and feel like beloved comic
Agents of SHIELD had a slow start in many fans' opinion. Season One was a tale of two halves. Possibly, the slow start occurred because of corporate interference. The creative people, who tend to know comic books better anyways, were not allowed to do their jobs perhaps. We moviegoers could be witnessing a decline in Marvel Studio's product. Often, successful art gets enervated by sales department math. We shall see how Guardians of the Galaxy looks. Does it look and feel like beloved comic art? Or, does it seem like pandering product? Marvel Studios might start showing a pattern of error here. Or, the studio's strategy might continue to be just fine.
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3:10PM on 05/28/2014
The first half of "Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D" suffered because they had to wait for the Hydra reveal in "Winter Soldier." But that didn't preclude them from telling interesting stories before the reveal. Personally, I think it was a matter of the writers struggling to find their groove, because the show started to get better even before "Winter Soldier's" release.
The first half of "Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D" suffered because they had to wait for the Hydra reveal in "Winter Soldier." But that didn't preclude them from telling interesting stories before the reveal. Personally, I think it was a matter of the writers struggling to find their groove, because the show started to get better even before "Winter Soldier's" release.
4:42PM on 05/28/2014
So the last three Marvel films are The Avengers, Iron Man 3 (admittedly bad story, but also a billion dollar film so somebody liked it), Thor 2 and Cap 2. What exactly signals a decline about that?
So the last three Marvel films are The Avengers, Iron Man 3 (admittedly bad story, but also a billion dollar film so somebody liked it), Thor 2 and Cap 2. What exactly signals a decline about that?
2:38PM on 05/28/2014
So Kevin Feige is a dick. It seems quite obvious since other directors have been one and done. Kenneth Branagh wouldn't come back, Alan Taylor made his gripes known, what they did to Jon Favreau during IM2, it seems like directors have no say in the "product" Marvel makes. I say product because when you take out a creative vision it is no longer a film but just an assembly line production. Capt 2 was a nice more serious film but the fact that Wright has left makes me worried they will still go
So Kevin Feige is a dick. It seems quite obvious since other directors have been one and done. Kenneth Branagh wouldn't come back, Alan Taylor made his gripes known, what they did to Jon Favreau during IM2, it seems like directors have no say in the "product" Marvel makes. I say product because when you take out a creative vision it is no longer a film but just an assembly line production. Capt 2 was a nice more serious film but the fact that Wright has left makes me worried they will still go in the generic "Marvel funny one liners" type of filmmaking instead of daring to be a bit different and take it a little more seriously. The slapstick one liner stuff is getting old.
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2:36PM on 05/28/2014

Buster Keaton was an alcoholic

And it's a typical thing among addicts to blame everyone else but themselves for their addiction. Buster Keaton's creative output suffered more from his alcoholism than anything MGM ever did. It's not a good comparison at all.
And it's a typical thing among addicts to blame everyone else but themselves for their addiction. Buster Keaton's creative output suffered more from his alcoholism than anything MGM ever did. It's not a good comparison at all.
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2:34PM on 05/28/2014
I absolutely love Edgar Wright and have no doubt he could have made the best Marvel movie to date. Every film so far including (and especially) Avengers have a cheap, TV, flat, and non-cinematic look that I'm sure Wright would have fixed amongst other things.

At the same time, I do respect Marvel and their control over a organized and unified Cinematic Universe.

So it is hard to pic sides, not knowing the specifics of be rewrites. However, I'm really not a fan of the Lang/Pym angle
I absolutely love Edgar Wright and have no doubt he could have made the best Marvel movie to date. Every film so far including (and especially) Avengers have a cheap, TV, flat, and non-cinematic look that I'm sure Wright would have fixed amongst other things.

At the same time, I do respect Marvel and their control over a organized and unified Cinematic Universe.

So it is hard to pic sides, not knowing the specifics of be rewrites. However, I'm really not a fan of the Lang/Pym angle thus far. Whoever's idea that was, shame on you.

If these rewrites include changing Rudd to Pym, changing Lily to Van Dyne, and retconning Pym as the true creator of Ultron, MAAYYBE losing Wright will be worth it.
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+3
2:32PM on 05/28/2014

No Marvel doesn't have too much control.

Don't get me wrong, I am very, very, VERY deeply saddened that Edgar Wright left Ant-Man, but Marvel created these characters, molded them into what they are today and have a clear vision of how they want these films to connect and what they want the to build up to. These are Marvel's properties through and through, whatever creative talent comes on board has to be willing to accept that. Thankfully, often times the two parties are able to come together and work in harmony and deliver stellar
Don't get me wrong, I am very, very, VERY deeply saddened that Edgar Wright left Ant-Man, but Marvel created these characters, molded them into what they are today and have a clear vision of how they want these films to connect and what they want the to build up to. These are Marvel's properties through and through, whatever creative talent comes on board has to be willing to accept that. Thankfully, often times the two parties are able to come together and work in harmony and deliver stellar products like Iron Man 1, The Avengers and Winter Soldier. Unfortunately, sometimes stuff like this happens instead.
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2:22PM on 05/28/2014
It all depends. Vaughn left an X-Men movie and Ratner filled in and we got X-Men The Last Stand. Vaughn left an X-Men movie and Singer filled in and we got Days of Future Past.
It all depends. Vaughn left an X-Men movie and Ratner filled in and we got X-Men The Last Stand. Vaughn left an X-Men movie and Singer filled in and we got Days of Future Past.
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2:12PM on 05/28/2014
I love Edgar Wright's films and the Marvel films so far. Maybe it's ok that they split if it means the vision will be united. I can't say I'm not curious about what Edgar Wright had planned, but Marvel also has a lot of skin in this game.
I love Edgar Wright's films and the Marvel films so far. Maybe it's ok that they split if it means the vision will be united. I can't say I'm not curious about what Edgar Wright had planned, but Marvel also has a lot of skin in this game.
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2:12PM on 05/28/2014
Double post
Double post
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2:06PM on 05/28/2014

This is Marvel's game now.

Marvel has a proven successful track record. It's up to directors/ actors/ writers if they want to play their game. They can't go in and expect to be able to do what they want to do. Even if Edgar Wright helped shape what Ant-man is now, he should have never expected to have complete control over it. Marvel is planning on franchises for everything they put out and have to think long term.
Marvel has a proven successful track record. It's up to directors/ actors/ writers if they want to play their game. They can't go in and expect to be able to do what they want to do. Even if Edgar Wright helped shape what Ant-man is now, he should have never expected to have complete control over it. Marvel is planning on franchises for everything they put out and have to think long term.
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1:48PM on 05/28/2014
No Marvel does not have too much control. They have their own vision and have created one of the most successful franchises in history. Don't fuck something up that's is working because some half ass director like Edgar Wright wants to do his own thing.
No Marvel does not have too much control. They have their own vision and have created one of the most successful franchises in history. Don't fuck something up that's is working because some half ass director like Edgar Wright wants to do his own thing.
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1:44PM on 05/28/2014

while its sad to see him go

I DO NOT WANT DIRECTORS TO GET REAL CREATIVE HERE, these characters don't need an artistic tweek or the directors stamp on them, they've been around longer than these directors, they should know this when going to work for Marvel, Marvel is putting THEIR characters out there, we have seen the crap we get when the directors change things too much, and not only that but their movies have to coexist in a giant universe, its too bad but Marvel has a record of making great movies so im not losing
I DO NOT WANT DIRECTORS TO GET REAL CREATIVE HERE, these characters don't need an artistic tweek or the directors stamp on them, they've been around longer than these directors, they should know this when going to work for Marvel, Marvel is putting THEIR characters out there, we have seen the crap we get when the directors change things too much, and not only that but their movies have to coexist in a giant universe, its too bad but Marvel has a record of making great movies so im not losing any sleep over this
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2:58PM on 05/28/2014
I guess I don't disagree......
I guess I don't disagree......
3:01PM on 05/28/2014
I mean, are directors coming in and saying, "No, no, no, no! Be moooooore Tony-Stark-ish!" or "Alright, Chris, let's try playing Thor gay in this movie."
I mean, are directors coming in and saying, "No, no, no, no! Be moooooore Tony-Stark-ish!" or "Alright, Chris, let's try playing Thor gay in this movie."
3:17PM on 05/28/2014
To be fair, Gay Thor would probably have a more interesting love interest than Natalie Portman.
To be fair, Gay Thor would probably have a more interesting love interest than Natalie Portman.
1:44PM on 05/28/2014
I'm sad that he left, Wright was so passionate about it. I was looking forward in seeing how he worked with Rudd and Douglas. With a different director, I won't be able to see that. Hopefully they'll pick another great director, but as of now, I don't care for the project anymore.
I'm sad that he left, Wright was so passionate about it. I was looking forward in seeing how he worked with Rudd and Douglas. With a different director, I won't be able to see that. Hopefully they'll pick another great director, but as of now, I don't care for the project anymore.
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-3
1:42PM on 05/28/2014
scrap antman, edgar wright was the only reason people were into the idea. make a black panther movie instead
scrap antman, edgar wright was the only reason people were into the idea. make a black panther movie instead
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4:35PM on 05/28/2014
I don't know if I should thumbs down for the dismissal of people's excitement for an Ant-Man movie, or a thumbs up for a Black Panther movie.
I don't know if I should thumbs down for the dismissal of people's excitement for an Ant-Man movie, or a thumbs up for a Black Panther movie.
3:41AM on 05/29/2014
Yeah, if they are only going to repeat the same heroic formula without an invigorating offbeat take on it, at least they should go with somebody more imposing like Black Panther.
Yeah, if they are only going to repeat the same heroic formula without an invigorating offbeat take on it, at least they should go with somebody more imposing like Black Panther.
1:33PM on 05/28/2014
I'm disappointed that Wright and Marvel parted ways considering the only reason I was looking forward to Ant Man as much as I was, was because of Wright. Besides that though, I'm still very much looking forward to and anticipating the rest of Phase 2 and all of Phase 3. I mean I was dissapointed that Marvel replaced Norton and Howard for Incredible Hulk and War Machine, but I don't think most of us fans really mind that either character was recasted at this point.

I don't think Marvel has
I'm disappointed that Wright and Marvel parted ways considering the only reason I was looking forward to Ant Man as much as I was, was because of Wright. Besides that though, I'm still very much looking forward to and anticipating the rest of Phase 2 and all of Phase 3. I mean I was dissapointed that Marvel replaced Norton and Howard for Incredible Hulk and War Machine, but I don't think most of us fans really mind that either character was recasted at this point.

I don't think Marvel has too much control. Just perhaps too much of an ego problem at times. But it's not like I'm going to stop watching and appreciating their great quality comic book films because of this.
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1:30PM on 05/28/2014
Love that pic of Joss. Really is a nice hat tip to Wright.
Love that pic of Joss. Really is a nice hat tip to Wright.
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