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Face-Off: The Avengers vs. Avengers: Age Of Ultron

05.19.2015by: Brian Bitner
Face-Off is back! The Avengers are back! Where's the damn McRib when you need it?

Joss Whedon and Marvel Studios set an ambitious precedent with THE AVENGERS, a movie with seven protagonists which relies in part on an existing knowledge of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. The team has reassembled for AVENGERS: AGE OF ULTRON, but can a film with even more characters and subplots live up to what the first film just barely pulled off? Let's take a look.

(Please note: Face-Off is an opinion column. We're not using any actual science to prove or disprove anything. It's just for fun.)
CAST
PLOT
S.H.I.E.L.D. rounds up its greatest superheroes when the Asgardian Loki attempts to take over the world using the Tesseract and an army of Chitauri. Or something.
Earth's Mightiest Heroes reunite when Tony Stark accidentally creates Ultron, a program hellbent on human extinction. Meanwhile, two Eastern European superheroes want revenge because of some business about their parents and Stark Industries... yes, exactly like IRON MAN 2.
VILLAIN
Loki a.k.a. Evil Thor. A great performance by Tom Hiddleston of an interesting character, but continuing with Loki as the villain felt more like a THOR sequel than a new idea.
Ultron a.k.a. Evil Iron Man. A sentient program created by Tony Stark and Bruce Banner, terrifyingly voiced by James Spader.
OPENING SEQUENCE
Loki terminators in from another dimension with the help of a pretty cube, uses the Loki poky stick to turn Hawkeye and others to his cause, and escapes in the method of transport preferred by all demigods, the back of a pickup.
Maybe the best piece of eye candy in the MCU. A high octane romp through Sokovia featuring long takes, heart-pounding action, and a corny but fun money shot of the whole gang in action.
FINAL BATTLE
Waves of Chitauri barrel through an open wormhole while The Avengers use battle tactics and brute force to capture Loki, defeat the Chitauri, and close the wormhole.
Chaos. Just chaos. A floating city with about a dozen superheroes trying to save thousands of civilians from an Agent Smith of Ultrons. A solid sequence, but too many characters and quick cuts to stand against the Battle of New York.
WRITING/HUMOR
A few corny one-liners ("YOU WANT ME TO PUT THE HAMMER DOWN?") but all in all a sharp script with a lot of laughs and exciting moments.
Lots of Whedon-esque "look how clever I am" jokes and one-liners, especially in the first twenty minutes. Too many subplots and MCU references to feel satisfying as a stand alone movie.
SACRIFICE
Phil Coulson. One of the major elements holding the MCU together up to this point and an all-around nice guy (yes, he is later resurrected somehow for television, but whatever, he dies in this movie).
Pietro Maximoff. A newcomer without enough screen time to evoke any real emotion at his loss. Moreover, X-MEN: DAYS OF FUTURE PAST kind of pre-killed the need for this character in the MCU.
OPENING WEEKEND GROSS (DOMESTIC)
$207,438,708
$191,271,109
THE AVENGERS
THE AVENGERS pulls off juggling so many characters by effectively treating the collected heroes as a single character once things get going. The plot goes from following several opposing forces to eventually following one unified team.

AVENGERS: AGE OF ULTRON kind of does the opposite. We start with our unified team, introduce the Maximoffs as working for the bad guy, create a new bad guy, split the team up for a bit, send the Maximoffs to the good side, alienate the casual viewer with about a dozen cameos, create a new Avenger who can do just about anything right before the final battle, and chuck a city into the air. While those are all perfectly fine ideas on their own, it's a little much for one movie.

THE AVENGERS felt like the big show the previous movies had been building to, while AVENGERS: AGE OF ULTRON feels a bit more like another MCU placeholder, albeit one of the best.

Agree? Disagree? Which do you prefer?
POST YOUR CHOICE BELOW!

If you have a suggestion for a future Face-Off, let us know below or send me an email at brianbitner@joblo.com.

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5:18PM on 05/20/2015

Whedon's humor kinda killed AOU

The first Avengers movie was amazing in a sense that it nailed everything right for a great comic book movie. While Age of Ultron was just a good sequel, not great but good. AOU had some great action scenes, Ultron was badass, and the story was good. My only beef with the film was Whedon's jokes. Some of them were good (Vision Thor's hammer bit) but some were just beaing a dead horse (the language joke got so old within the first 20 minutes). Also, i kind of wished they fleshed out hulk and
The first Avengers movie was amazing in a sense that it nailed everything right for a great comic book movie. While Age of Ultron was just a good sequel, not great but good. AOU had some great action scenes, Ultron was badass, and the story was good. My only beef with the film was Whedon's jokes. Some of them were good (Vision Thor's hammer bit) but some were just beaing a dead horse (the language joke got so old within the first 20 minutes). Also, i kind of wished they fleshed out hulk and widow's romance. i know a lot of fans weren't pleased with it but i thought if they fleshed it out more it would've been better. Like i said though, I had fun with AOU and thought it was a good enough sequel.
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12:29PM on 05/20/2015
I liked Avengers Age Of Ultron better, in terms of story, and I think it will hold up better over time as a film. The Avengers was awesome when it came out it was the spectacle of FINALLY having all these heroes together. But the story was at times a little weak, and there were film making mistakes in it that were bothersome.

Age Of Ultron felt so cohesive, like it was going somewhere special with these characters. All the characters felt like good stories, Hawkeye, Banner got real
I liked Avengers Age Of Ultron better, in terms of story, and I think it will hold up better over time as a film. The Avengers was awesome when it came out it was the spectacle of FINALLY having all these heroes together. But the story was at times a little weak, and there were film making mistakes in it that were bothersome.

Age Of Ultron felt so cohesive, like it was going somewhere special with these characters. All the characters felt like good stories, Hawkeye, Banner got real moments.
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10:35PM on 05/19/2015
Loki is a far better villain than Ultron. What a waste of a character; also, why would they create a robot with moving lips? Stupidity at its finest.
Loki is a far better villain than Ultron. What a waste of a character; also, why would they create a robot with moving lips? Stupidity at its finest.
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+2
4:34PM on 05/19/2015

Nice write up

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Honestly I was hoping to watch Age of Ultron a second time before ranking it among the other MCU films, but your overall points are pretty great
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Honestly I was hoping to watch Age of Ultron a second time before ranking it among the other MCU films, but your overall points are pretty great
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3:00PM on 05/19/2015
I honestly don't know yet. I'm going back and forth between the two. As of now a tie.
I honestly don't know yet. I'm going back and forth between the two. As of now a tie.
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+0
2:04PM on 05/19/2015
I found it to be a difficult decision but I also would give it to the first Avengers over Age of Ultron. With repeated viewings I have found that I find the Avengers to be something which I never thought I'd say: boring. I find the first film to be boring. Most of the scenes simply drag and opposed to the first time viewing the film, I felt there wasn't enough excitement to keep you engaged between the action scenes. The exposition on the Shield helicarrier feels like forever. Age of Ultron
I found it to be a difficult decision but I also would give it to the first Avengers over Age of Ultron. With repeated viewings I have found that I find the Avengers to be something which I never thought I'd say: boring. I find the first film to be boring. Most of the scenes simply drag and opposed to the first time viewing the film, I felt there wasn't enough excitement to keep you engaged between the action scenes. The exposition on the Shield helicarrier feels like forever. Age of Ultron felt sleeker, edgier, the action scenes were staged and shot better, and there was more to enjoy (the raid on Hydra's base bested the Battle of New York in my eyes). Yet, like everyone else has said Age of Ultron simply lacked a significant plot and a weak villain. Loki remains the best villain in the Marvel Universe and he was very entertaining in Avengers. Perhaps it was because they already had a film to develop him. Ultron was really disappointing. Age of Ultron also had the uncessary side missions, lack of regard for prior movies (Stark reissuing a suit, Nick Fury returning with Sheild, Cap's mission with Falcon). Things were kind of brushed over. In sum, Age of Ultron was more fun, but Avengers was the better movie.
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5:20PM on 05/20/2015
i didn't find Ultron that weak. My only thing with the film was some of the film's humor. some jokes, whedon tried too hard in my opinion.
i didn't find Ultron that weak. My only thing with the film was some of the film's humor. some jokes, whedon tried too hard in my opinion.
+1
1:47PM on 05/19/2015
Avengers 2 was awful, the first film is leaps and bounds better.
Avengers 2 was awful, the first film is leaps and bounds better.
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1:06PM on 05/19/2015
Avengers is by far a better movie. AOU was overcrowded. I know it's exciting to see a lot of these characters on screen together, but the down side is they don't have enough time to develop all of them fully. Honestly most the new characters in the sequel did little for me, other than take away from the original team's development.
Avengers is by far a better movie. AOU was overcrowded. I know it's exciting to see a lot of these characters on screen together, but the down side is they don't have enough time to develop all of them fully. Honestly most the new characters in the sequel did little for me, other than take away from the original team's development.
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10:47PM on 05/19/2015
I actually prefer to just see them in action. We literally have 40 plus years of character development in comic books. And Iron Man, Thor, Cap, Hulk all have several of their own films that dealt with their development, so the only ones to develop further of the original team on film is Black Widow and Hawkeye which subsequently Ultron did on both accounts. The twins were always going to be throw away additions with one being set up as a fall guy, but I am sure Scarlet and Vision will be
I actually prefer to just see them in action. We literally have 40 plus years of character development in comic books. And Iron Man, Thor, Cap, Hulk all have several of their own films that dealt with their development, so the only ones to develop further of the original team on film is Black Widow and Hawkeye which subsequently Ultron did on both accounts. The twins were always going to be throw away additions with one being set up as a fall guy, but I am sure Scarlet and Vision will be explored more in the future especially if they remain romantically linked like the comics. And if you think AOU is overcrowded you probably won't like Civil War or the Infinity Wars, the comics involve the entire Marvel universe.
1:04PM on 05/19/2015
There really is only one winner here. The FANS. Both were great. There are no losers when we get to see Avengers movies being made. I like them equally. The first one will always be nostalgic though for being the first time seeing all my favorite heroes on the big screen, so just for fond memory it has an edge, but I don't consider it better than Ultron.
There really is only one winner here. The FANS. Both were great. There are no losers when we get to see Avengers movies being made. I like them equally. The first one will always be nostalgic though for being the first time seeing all my favorite heroes on the big screen, so just for fond memory it has an edge, but I don't consider it better than Ultron.
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11:55AM on 05/19/2015
Considering that 'The Avengers' is a very good movie, and 'Age of Ultron' is a bad movie, I didn't see much use for this comparison. I am glad that Avengers won, because it deserved to win. Age of Ultron was average at best ,and I'm being very nice.
Considering that 'The Avengers' is a very good movie, and 'Age of Ultron' is a bad movie, I didn't see much use for this comparison. I am glad that Avengers won, because it deserved to win. Age of Ultron was average at best ,and I'm being very nice.
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10:50AM on 05/19/2015

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10:36AM on 05/19/2015

A close battle....

Even though I can't deny the power and excitement of seeing the Avengers assemble in the first movie, I ended up liking Age of Ultron a bit better, even though I know I'm probably in the minority. The group dynamic worked better for me in AOU. The first Avengers did a horrible job of introducing Hawkeye and Jeremy Renner had every right to be annoyed by his part. We didn't even really get to know him before he turned bad, so his eventual recovery and redemption didn't mean a whole lot. The
Even though I can't deny the power and excitement of seeing the Avengers assemble in the first movie, I ended up liking Age of Ultron a bit better, even though I know I'm probably in the minority. The group dynamic worked better for me in AOU. The first Avengers did a horrible job of introducing Hawkeye and Jeremy Renner had every right to be annoyed by his part. We didn't even really get to know him before he turned bad, so his eventual recovery and redemption didn't mean a whole lot. The group's arguing and bickering in the first one didn't make a lot of sense, but in AOU, it seemed like when they disagreed, both sides had valid points. I will say Loki made a more compelling villain, simply because it was an actor and not a CGI creation, but his stark change from Thor to Avengers didn't make sense. In Thor, he wasn't a villain so much as a conflicted brother, who found out that he wasn't blood related to Thor and his own heritage had been hidden from him. His actions made sense in the movie, but in Avengers, he was suddenly an all out baddie with no real reasoning. But I will say that the original Avengers had two bits of cinema that AOU was never able to match. The scene where Hulk punches Thor after they battle together and Hulk's slamming of Loki will go down as classic moments. I like both movies and I'm just grateful that they happened in my lifetime.
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10:20AM on 05/19/2015

Lips?!?

Robots with lips. That is all.

The first one was far and away a better movie, though it was still guilty of being a bridge—Age of Ultron felt more like an episode of a TV show than a big summer blockbuster, as far as story goes anyways. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I've felt like a lot of the phase two films have been underwhelming
Robots with lips. That is all.

The first one was far and away a better movie, though it was still guilty of being a bridge—Age of Ultron felt more like an episode of a TV show than a big summer blockbuster, as far as story goes anyways. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I've felt like a lot of the phase two films have been underwhelming
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5:21PM on 05/20/2015
At parts it felt like a TV Show, i'll agree with that. It really got into sitcom territory with some of the lame jokes too.
At parts it felt like a TV Show, i'll agree with that. It really got into sitcom territory with some of the lame jokes too.
10:38PM on 05/19/2015
Agreed about phase two has been weaker than the first phase, except for the Winter Soldier. Maybe Marvel should've let the Russo brothers direct AoU instead of Joss Whedon.
Agreed about phase two has been weaker than the first phase, except for the Winter Soldier. Maybe Marvel should've let the Russo brothers direct AoU instead of Joss Whedon.
+1
10:15AM on 05/19/2015
The avengers for sure.. I disagree in the villain.. I think Loki was a far better character than Ultron, which for me, it was the weakest thing of the sequel..
The avengers for sure.. I disagree in the villain.. I think Loki was a far better character than Ultron, which for me, it was the weakest thing of the sequel..
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9:59AM on 05/19/2015

AGE OF ULTRON

Absolutely loved the first AVENGERS, got goosebumps during that infamous Superbowl spot, but as a comic fan, AOU is a better film and a dream come true. I read comics mainly in the 80's and 90's when the Avengers group was more like the group they showed at the end of AOU, which is actually the West Coast team, and the regular team had She-Hulk, not Hulk. Joss made more of a fan made film and casual viewers were lost, and I can understand, but I'm glad he did, because I love the film.
Absolutely loved the first AVENGERS, got goosebumps during that infamous Superbowl spot, but as a comic fan, AOU is a better film and a dream come true. I read comics mainly in the 80's and 90's when the Avengers group was more like the group they showed at the end of AOU, which is actually the West Coast team, and the regular team had She-Hulk, not Hulk. Joss made more of a fan made film and casual viewers were lost, and I can understand, but I'm glad he did, because I love the film.
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3:34PM on 05/19/2015
Actually I'm a comic book fan (and a Joss Whedon fan) and I thought it was mediocre. How can you not be disappointed when one of the best Avengers villains has one fight, has to use a jet to shoot someone, and get's his ass destroyed off screen with a comic line?

Add that to the mishmash of characters fighting for screen time and bizarre plot ideas (like Thor taking a bath in magic water to have a vision that made no sense (and included Selvig for no reason whatsoever).
Actually I'm a comic book fan (and a Joss Whedon fan) and I thought it was mediocre. How can you not be disappointed when one of the best Avengers villains has one fight, has to use a jet to shoot someone, and get's his ass destroyed off screen with a comic line?

Add that to the mishmash of characters fighting for screen time and bizarre plot ideas (like Thor taking a bath in magic water to have a vision that made no sense (and included Selvig for no reason whatsoever).
-1
9:40AM on 05/19/2015

Tie.

I gave them both a 9/10.
I gave them both a 9/10.
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+2
7:33AM on 05/19/2015
Avengers for sure!! Just like Scorpio77 said the more I reflect back on the film the more forgettable it becomes. There are scenes that are amazing in it but collectively it all didnt fit together neatly. Ultron himself was such a missed opportunity and disappointing villain, Marvel still has yet to make a memorable villain outside of Loki.

The final fight was really disappointing, you have a bad ass character like Ultron you'd expect he'd go toe to toe with the whole Avengers at once but
Avengers for sure!! Just like Scorpio77 said the more I reflect back on the film the more forgettable it becomes. There are scenes that are amazing in it but collectively it all didnt fit together neatly. Ultron himself was such a missed opportunity and disappointing villain, Marvel still has yet to make a memorable villain outside of Loki.

The final fight was really disappointing, you have a bad ass character like Ultron you'd expect he'd go toe to toe with the whole Avengers at once but all we got was one on one off fights that really wasn't satisfying. I understood the humor route that they took with Ultron but in doing so it took away his seriousness of a threat away. There was also no sense of suspense or danger. I watched it with my six year old nephew and even he was bored with it by the time we walked out.

Its not a bad film but if this a sample of what Civil War or Avengers 3 and 4 might be Marvel might have to rethink its formula. I hope it isn't though.

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4:27AM on 05/19/2015

Also...did you watch Avengers Age of Ultron or Iron man 2?

want revenge after their parents are killed by Stark technology... yes, exactly like IRON MAN 2.


ummm Anton Vanko didn't want revenge because his parents were killed by Stark Technology. Re watch that movie bro.
want revenge after their parents are killed by Stark technology... yes, exactly like IRON MAN 2.


ummm Anton Vanko didn't want revenge because his parents were killed by Stark Technology. Re watch that movie bro.
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10:24AM on 05/19/2015
Touché! Been awhile on IM2. Updated; thanks!
Touché! Been awhile on IM2. Updated; thanks!
2:42AM on 05/19/2015

"terrifyingly voiced by James Spader. "

ya...maybe in the trailer. In the movie he turned out to be a goofball retard.
ya...maybe in the trailer. In the movie he turned out to be a goofball retard.
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6:15AM on 05/19/2015
Who turned into a little bitch by the end.
Who turned into a little bitch by the end.
2:24AM on 05/19/2015
Mayweather Pacquiao PPV hurt Age of Ultrons opening weekend numbers
Mayweather Pacquiao PPV hurt Age of Ultrons opening weekend numbers
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11:57AM on 05/19/2015
No, no it didn't. Age of Ultron being a bad movie is what hurt its box office numbers.
No, no it didn't. Age of Ultron being a bad movie is what hurt its box office numbers.
4:55AM on 05/19/2015
Yea and both were huge disappointments in the end. Plus it only made $14 million less anyway than the opening of the first one, get over yourself.
Yea and both were huge disappointments in the end. Plus it only made $14 million less anyway than the opening of the first one, get over yourself.
2:08AM on 05/19/2015
You know the more I thought about it after watching Age of Ultron, I already started to forget what I had seen. I actually finally understood some of the criticisms it was receiving. Nothing about the movie, aside from the awesome opening sequence, really caught my attention & wowed me like the first Avengers did. Don't get me wrong I still enjoyed it for what it was, but I just didn't get the basis of the plot. Ok so Stark basically created Ultron so that the heroes no longer had to fight,
You know the more I thought about it after watching Age of Ultron, I already started to forget what I had seen. I actually finally understood some of the criticisms it was receiving. Nothing about the movie, aside from the awesome opening sequence, really caught my attention & wowed me like the first Avengers did. Don't get me wrong I still enjoyed it for what it was, but I just didn't get the basis of the plot. Ok so Stark basically created Ultron so that the heroes no longer had to fight, this AI would do it for them? I really didn't understand the reason Ultron wanted to destroy humanity in the first place, the plot makes no damn sense. The scenes with Banner & Black Widow felt out of place & forced. It had some great action scenes like the Hulkbuster one & the end one & it was cool they actually cared about saving people. However to me there is nothing really memorable about the movie, so that being said, the first Avengers movie wins by a mile.
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10:23AM on 05/19/2015
Yeah... all of a sudden Ultron became skynet, and I stopped caring
Yeah... all of a sudden Ultron became skynet, and I stopped caring
1:30AM on 05/19/2015

I'm still going back and forth between the two...

...but I think, objectively, The Avengers was the better-made movie. The plot's more focused and concise, the writing is seriously top-notch, and there's never a single wasted moment in the script. Age of Ultron, on the other hand, is a beast. The plot is crazy, the action is insane, it feels a bit bloated, there are a few subplots that come out of nowhere and go nowhere, there's more cameos and characters and motivations to keep track of...but it was just so much more entertaining, IMO. The
...but I think, objectively, The Avengers was the better-made movie. The plot's more focused and concise, the writing is seriously top-notch, and there's never a single wasted moment in the script. Age of Ultron, on the other hand, is a beast. The plot is crazy, the action is insane, it feels a bit bloated, there are a few subplots that come out of nowhere and go nowhere, there's more cameos and characters and motivations to keep track of...but it was just so much more entertaining, IMO. The action is on a whole other level, the character interactions are a nerd's wet dream, and the themes are so much deeper and well-defined than the first film. I LOVE both, and The Avengers will always be near and dear to me, but I think Age of Ultron gets my vote here, flaws and all.
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+3
12:59AM on 05/19/2015
The first film was damn good.

I thought Age of Ultron suffered from a lot of the same problems as Man of Steel. Sure it had better written characters, but it rushed through the plot so fast that characters were just telling us what Ultron was doing instead of actually showing us what he was doing. The action was boring and was too long without giving us anything. A film like Fury Road shows how to do non-stop action while still driving story and developing characters, which made the action
The first film was damn good.

I thought Age of Ultron suffered from a lot of the same problems as Man of Steel. Sure it had better written characters, but it rushed through the plot so fast that characters were just telling us what Ultron was doing instead of actually showing us what he was doing. The action was boring and was too long without giving us anything. A film like Fury Road shows how to do non-stop action while still driving story and developing characters, which made the action fun. The first Avengers did the same. AoU didn't do that.
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12:29AM on 05/19/2015

The Avengers

Love both films tremendously and both are surpass one another in different areas, but I have to pick one over the other it would have to be the first Avengers. Really can't beat and/or top the excitement of having all of the Avengers in the same film for the very first time. Even though the film screwed over Captain America, and Hawkeye (especially Hawkeye) in terms of screen time and development, I just thought the storyline to the first Avengers just flowed better.

But like I said, I love
Love both films tremendously and both are surpass one another in different areas, but I have to pick one over the other it would have to be the first Avengers. Really can't beat and/or top the excitement of having all of the Avengers in the same film for the very first time. Even though the film screwed over Captain America, and Hawkeye (especially Hawkeye) in terms of screen time and development, I just thought the storyline to the first Avengers just flowed better.

But like I said, I love both films just as much as the other, but having the whole gang together on screen for the first time learning to become a team is what tops Ultron (at least in my opinion). Maybe it'll change after a couple of more viewings.
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4:24AM on 05/19/2015
you realize Captain America has the most screentime in The Avengers (2012) and has the most development as a character. Going from the man out of time to full on team leader. The movie is set up so that we see the events unfold mainly through his eyes. Even Joss Whedon said he is the main character.

Proof for screentime too
[link]
you realize Captain America has the most screentime in The Avengers (2012) and has the most development as a character. Going from the man out of time to full on team leader. The movie is set up so that we see the events unfold mainly through his eyes. Even Joss Whedon said he is the main character.

Proof for screentime too
[link]
-1
12:28AM on 05/19/2015

Wow, stunning that you could be wrong about so much....

....yet still come to the correct conclusion. Loki (and his army) were better villains than Ultron.....not because they should have been, but because there wasn't enough time to dedicate to building Ultron as a threat. He had one cool fight with Cap, but otherwise didn't show up until the finale when he shot Pietro from a jet and got destroyed off camera by the Hulk.

The plot was better in the first because it was coherent. There was far too much jumping around and sideplots that went
....yet still come to the correct conclusion. Loki (and his army) were better villains than Ultron.....not because they should have been, but because there wasn't enough time to dedicate to building Ultron as a threat. He had one cool fight with Cap, but otherwise didn't show up until the finale when he shot Pietro from a jet and got destroyed off camera by the Hulk.

The plot was better in the first because it was coherent. There was far too much jumping around and sideplots that went nowhere, and in anyone's book that should equal an inferior plot. Besides, Stark built Ultron out of hubris (and with unknowing help from Thanos), then learned nothing as his solution was to also build Vision and hope for the best.

The cast was better in the first because they all had time to participate (although Hawkeye got shafted a bit). There were more stars in the second, but how many of them were used effectively? If the number of stars making a cameo is the goal, then Entourage is going to be the greatest movie in film history.

But Avengers is better in every measurable category. The critical reviews are much better, the audience reviews are better, it had far more return business, and it made far more domestically (although international might even the two out eventually).
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9:47PM on 05/19/2015
The thing about Hawkeye in the first one is that he has seconds on screen before he's brainwashed, then about an hour where he shows his skills (somewhat), but has no personality. He gets the chance to actively participate during the final fight, but is limited because he only has so many arrows (although I like the idea of him being up high calling out patterns to the rest to keep them organized). I agree that he's the weak one, but he's interesting because he doesn't have super-powers, yet
The thing about Hawkeye in the first one is that he has seconds on screen before he's brainwashed, then about an hour where he shows his skills (somewhat), but has no personality. He gets the chance to actively participate during the final fight, but is limited because he only has so many arrows (although I like the idea of him being up high calling out patterns to the rest to keep them organized). I agree that he's the weak one, but he's interesting because he doesn't have super-powers, yet is still such a vital part of the comic and animated TV team.

In the Avengers animated series one of the most important things he did was make Hulk like him, which made him the only person on the team Hulk would listen to (kind of-sort of). They could have made him important in some aspect like that since he obviously pales in comparison to Stark, Thor, Hulk & Cap during battle.

BTW, my comment about Stark was due to a very interesting breakdown of the film I read by a critic who pointed out that a character arc would have had Stark realize his failings in causing the mess, and choosing to do it differently which solves the problem. Instead he just "guesses" a second time, and it happens to work out (due to Thor helping). That should have evolved differently to make the moment have meaning.
6:05PM on 05/19/2015
A few things:

1. I agree that Loki is the better villain and I don't know why Joblo chose Ultron when it was so clear that Loki was better.

2. Stark built Vision because they were desperate. Yes, it might have seemed silly for him to do the same thing he had just done that had failed so terribly but when you are desperate and have no viable options left a person, especially with as much hubris as Stark does, will do such things as that.

3. People saying Hawkeye got shafted in the first
A few things:

1. I agree that Loki is the better villain and I don't know why Joblo chose Ultron when it was so clear that Loki was better.

2. Stark built Vision because they were desperate. Yes, it might have seemed silly for him to do the same thing he had just done that had failed so terribly but when you are desperate and have no viable options left a person, especially with as much hubris as Stark does, will do such things as that.

3. People saying Hawkeye got shafted in the first one still confuses me. First off, he is a minor character to the main four, but secondly he had plenty of screen time. He was Loki's right hand man for the first half and then he got to fight in the battle of New York with memorable scenes. I would have much rather been Renner than Johansson in the first Avengers. Bottom line: Despite what everyone else has said, including Renner and Whedon, Hawkeye had PLENTY to do in the first Avengers. This time around, to "make up" for the first film, many say he got too much and they are complaining about that. Lesson: people apparently aren't going to be happy no matter what they do with Hawkeye.
3:38PM on 05/19/2015
I agree with you on that. I just wish they would have treated him seriously as the scary villain we saw in the trailers. It's a cool article, I just see it as almost a shutout for the first one.

Thanks for answering. Good to know some of you guys pay attention to the comment section.
I agree with you on that. I just wish they would have treated him seriously as the scary villain we saw in the trailers. It's a cool article, I just see it as almost a shutout for the first one.

Thanks for answering. Good to know some of you guys pay attention to the comment section.
10:28AM on 05/19/2015
Several stunning wrongs do make a right! Really I only gave the villain category to Ultron because he was new (and created by a collaboration between two Avengers) rather than reusing a villain from a previous film, especially when there had only been five previous films at that point. Thanks for reading!
Several stunning wrongs do make a right! Really I only gave the villain category to Ultron because he was new (and created by a collaboration between two Avengers) rather than reusing a villain from a previous film, especially when there had only been five previous films at that point. Thanks for reading!
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