INT: Darren Aronofsky
I remember when I first saw REQUIEM FOR A DREAM and I was horrified, messed up and intrigued all at the same time. There was no question that the man who made PI could have made this film. Well, Darren Aronofsky returns to a world only he could create in THE FOUNTAIN. A fantastic voyage of a man, played by Hugh Jackman, who is trying to find the secret of eternal life to save the woman he loves. This is a love story with elements that are fantastical, exactly what you would expect from a director with his talent.
recently stopped by the Beverly Wilshire Hotel in
Ever since the screening last night Ive been involved in conversation after conversation about this movie.
Is that the ultimate compliment?
Absolutely; I mean one of my greatest memories was after being in a coffee shop next to the Nuart which is a movie theater here in L.A. just randomly and Pi was playing around the corner and I just happened to be there and a father came in with his 16-year-old daughter and a few of her friends and they sat there and they were all debating what the ending was. And I just sat there listening and it was great to hear a whole conversation, you know. So I think thats the Its so often that youre home the day after you saw a movie and you cant remember what the hell you saw the night before. But then sometimes you see movies that just stay with you and create a conversation and I think thats always been a goal to try and do something like that. So Im glad to hear that thats what went down.
Before the movie you spoke
Yeah, I said hello.
...and said Dont think too much. Was that not being fair? I mean I think this is a movie you have to think a lot about.
No, no. I mean ultimately I dont think so. I think its a really simple love story at the core. Its really about a man and a woman in love. One of them is going away and the other ones not coming to terms with it. Eventually he does come to terms with it. Theres sort of a big anti-thinking, anti-intellectual message in the film even though its kind of told in a very different way that you think it makes you think. Its really very simple the film and thats why I kind of messed with the structure, taking a very simple idea but then encasing it in a puzzle structure that makes people think about how it all fits together and talk about how it fits together. But at the core its a very simple emotional story I think.
For the most past of the last decade this has been part of your life pretty heavily. So now that its about to debut, how has that changed you? Darren Aronofsky ten years ago and Darren Aronofsky today?
Well ten years ago Pi didnt even exist so its less than that. Its only five, six years or so. Darren Aronofsky ten years ago, I was trying to get into Sundance. So that was a very different world. I imagine Ive changed a lot. My personal life has changed a lot but professionally I think Im the same person and just being passionate about a project, believing in it, and then not letting go and just keep pushing it no matter how many people say no. We did that with Pi, we did that with Requiem, two films no one wanted to make. Honestly, no one wanted to make. And the same thing happened with The Fountain. My producer always says when everyone is saying no, you know youre doing something right. And thats kind of been my mantra for a long time because I think weve always tried to do new stuff with cinema. Thats been me and my fellow filmmakers. Weve been a team now and we just keep trying to do something a little bit wild, a little bit different, and really just trying to push the edge of whats acceptable.
As you say, at its core this is essentially a love story. Was it always your intention from the very first second that you got the idea to involve all these other elements the science fiction, the historical elements or was that something that came from the theme?
The love story came afterwards actually. The first thing was trying to do something new in sci-fi, to return science fiction from the outer space journey to the inner space journey. Because, you know, sci-fi I was talking to you about this has just sort of been hijacked by techno-lust and hardware button science fiction. In fact, people on the road have been like, this isnt science fiction because there are no ray guns and theres no wheres the lasers?
And its hard for people who arent fans of the genre outside of movies to understand that science fiction has a long tradition of being internal journeys as well as external journeys and so it was always about trying to do something new in sci-fi is what started it. And then as we start to develop these themes about everlasting life, it became pretty clear that one of the main things that we as people can do while were here on the planet is love and its one of our big things is the loss of love. You know, its one of the great things that make us alive. So that became a big theme and we realized that that was going to be the heart of the film.
Is the movie a kind of examination of the nature of fantasy, because I think you look at the Conquistador thing ? Theyre trying to find the fountain of youth which, within the context of the movie, maybe exists but that we all know in real life didnt. I know they were into that back then. Today we think that rational scientific research will solve everything but yet we know that it doesnt solve everything. And you know the future is just fantasy there. Are you trying to have us question or examine our fantasy impulse?
Yeah, Ive always been into taking a story and going a step forward into heightened reality. You know Im a big fan of [John] Cassavetes, but Ive always kind of moved toward Terry Gilliam camp. Thats sort of the type of movies Ive just liked a lot. Ive always been attracted to move towards. So basically I like to ground things in reality and then just take it a step forward so there is a little bit of fantasy. But I mean The Fountain for me is a fairytale for adults, but a fairytale, always been a fairytale. In fact when I went to Spain, I was just in Barcelona at the Citrus Film Festival which is a great film festival if you can get sent there, or get there, go there.
Its a great time. But I was really concerned because the Spanish stuff is very loosely based in history. It was purposely so because its a fairytale. Theres this magical Mayan tree. But I was concerned what they were thinking. None of the Spanish press was asking me about it, you know, which Isabel is this or any of that. So I started asking them, What do you think of the whole Spanish thing. And theyd say, Oh, its a fairytale. They got it instantly what I was doing and its like, Oh, whew! [Sigh of relief] So interviewer after interviewer kept saying that. Its clearly fiction and everything is slightly heightened.
I mean whats happening in the lab is whatever, ten, fifteen, although stuff is happening, you know, which is amazing. I mean if you think about it, life expectancy I think in 1900 was something like 47 so we are living twice as long so for now if we look forward to a life expectancy for rich people of something in the 80s or something. In a hundred years, who knows, it might be 160 or 170. What would it mean to live to 160 or 170? Its an intense concept and its a reality thats happening. And its going to change the way we think about how we live and what a life is.
Darren, recently you mentioned that your next project is going to be biblical? Is that biblical in the sense of something literally taken out of the bible, like Noah, the Apocalypse, or something?
No comment. [Laughing] We are working on something thats biblical in nature. Luckily that can mean a lot of different things, but Im actually working on two things. Im working on a super big thing which is what youre talking about and then Im working on a really tiny thing. My goal is to start shooting in 07. So whichever one gets me to the starting line first is the one Im going to shoot because in the last five years Ive worked with actors for 60 days and thats kind of my favorite part of the process so I just want to get back on set and working with actors again. So whichever will happen but then Im not really talking more about that because its an embryonic phase and its brand new well its actually not brand new Ive been working on it for a long time but once you start talking about it, it kind of dissipates.
Is the little project fantasy or science fiction?
The little project isnt. The little project is more like a Cassavetes film. Its very, very real and small.
But in terms of what happened on this project where it was a six year process and you thought you were going to make it with Brad [Pitt] and a bigger budget, have you learned anything going forward on these next projects in terms of Okay, we need to make sure we do this instead of this?
Well I definitely would want to make sure I have I think being the initiator and the main force behind the reason something gets made is a hard place to be but Ive always been that way, you know. No one wanted to make a black and white movie about Gong math. Then after Pi and the success of Pi everyone was whatever you want to do. And then I sent them the copy of Requiem and no one even called us about it literally. [Laughing] So with Requiem, again we had to go out and raise the money independently.
And basically The Fountain was a really hard film to put together as well so its not a pleasant placed to be from. I think that unless I had the support to do the bigger film, I probably couldnt get it made just because its the type of money that you just really need a studio and so it might end up as a graphic novel and that will be that. But well see. Hopefully well be able to make it. I just want to For me its about getting back to work because its been a long trip and doing something that just lets me direct again because to have 60 days of directing and five years has been hard. Its been hard so I want to work.
So you made a movie thats all about love and youre making it and youve fallen in love. How did that happen?
Well, I fell in love before I made the movie.
The script existed before I met Rachel and it was cast before I met Rachel and the film fell apart and then after Hugh was cast we started to talk about who would we started making a list for the women and Hugh was like, What about Rachel? I was a little bit not sure of that because I had never crossed the line of working with that professional personal life but Hugh asked to have a meal and then when they met it was like one of those moments as a director, you know, you hope to see in the casting room, even though this wasnt the casting room, where theres just a link. And it was just clear that they were communicating, that they were connected. They were simpatico. And thats what happened.
How did you meet Rachel?
I saw her do a play. She was doing THE SHAPE OF THINGS in England and I was there working on a project over there and I went to see the play and I was a big fan of Neil LaButes so I went to see the play and I went back stage afterwards. You know, hijinks ensued. [laughing]
Could you talk a little bit about Hugh and what it was that he brought to the film?
Well Hugh, when I met him, I saw him in The Boy From Oz which you know is very, very different than The Fountain. I said, Well we can make the Conquistador having been married to Liza Minnelli but it doesnt quite work. But he was so incredible, I mean there was so much clear talent, so much talent, and no one had used it and I love hungry actors. I mean you look at Ellen Burstyn and Jennifer Connelly and Marlon Wayans.
They were actors that were waiting for an opportunity to show what they can do and thats for me I think the best secret as a director to get actors who want to be there. And both Hugh and Rachel were like that. And you know that goes so far because all that time you have to worry about negotiating peoples feelings was out the window. It was like Hugh was ready to jump in. And then we had a nice long pre-production to really learn about each other and get to know each other. He was confident that he could trust me which is the other biggest thing you have to do. Of course, Rachel trusted me pretty much and so that all worked out well.
The film has an incredibly organic feel from start to finish. Im just wondering how you went about creating the tone for that.
Well everything is organic in the film. We moved away from some of you might have heard about this we moved away from CGI. 98% of the film is CGI-free, kind of like Crest. I dont know what that means but anyway. [laughing] Its something about 99% or is that Ivory soap? That was because when we started this, one of our lofty goals was to try and reinvent sci-fi because we felt for the last fifty, sixty years sci-fi has gone down this path of well for the last fifty, sixty years weve all seen trucks in space, you know, basically cars better and bigger in space.
Like in Spaceballs, if you remember that long shot of the ship that didnt end. We kind of wanted to throw that out completely and be like, Okay, rethink the space ship. And I think we went so far that some people who arent versed in sci-fi dont even get that its a space ship. They just see a bubble and they dont really quite get whats going on but it was about moving out of space towards inner space. And then the other thing was to try and create The last 15, 20 years it seems like everything has been moving towards CGI. Basically things look a little bit better than the opening titles of Star Trek but not much better and we wanted to do something completely different and give it whole different feel, a whole different look and thats when we turned to
You know, I just basically sent my VFX guys and said, Theres got to be someone out there in the world whos shooting explosions or shooting something in high speed. I just had this fantasy that someone was experimenting. Coming from an animation background, I just knew you could do things with cameras and eventually we found this guy, Peter Parks, who lives outside of Oxford in the U.K. for the last 25 years. His work used to be in films but for the last 25 years his work has sort of gone out of style and out of favor. People used to do cloud tanks, you know, all the poltergeist clouds and that was an amazing effect.
Now they all do it in CG but I think it actually looks better when its true organic systems with real particles interacting. So everything youve seen in the movie was actually shot all that footage the nebula, the dying star was actually shot through a microscope and its all chemicals, chemical reactions, chemicals interacting, or actually some of it is actual microorganisms. A lot of what you were looking at was yeast growing in time lapse. And hes been photographing stuff and no ones used it. The raw material wasnt great but we took it and then we scanned it and then digitally we did collage work on it. But basically it was all real footage. So thats what gives you this total organic feel to it, I think.
You mentioned you want people to talk about this movie and all that. You know, there have been some early showings of it that have had what we call in the trade mixed reactions. You were expecting this I presume for a movie this challenging?
I dont know. I had to say I was surprised at what I first heard out of Venice, what happened, but then when the true story emerged after I had been in Europe and I had talked to a bunch of journalists who were in the room, what Variety reported was kind of true and what the AP picked up was kind of true but it didnt tell the whole story which was there were people hissing and there were people applauding and they were basically even.
Because every once and awhile a witness of it was there and this is what Ive heard. And eventually they cleared the room and they had to separate two journalists who actually got into a pushing match. And I was excited. I dont want to cause violence but Ive always been into I mean Ive always made films that are very divisive. Requiem for a Dream I mean Ive already met journalists who sat across from me and have said how much they were basically assuming that the assumption was that they liked Requiem when I knew that what they first originally wrote was extremely negative.
We know you were involved with Batman: Year One. Are we ever going to see you cross over and do a comic book character in a movie?
Well, that was a lot of hype Batman: Year One. I know it got to this big thing. I just It was a writing assignment for me and Frank Miller. So I was never really I was doing that while working on The Fountain because my interest was always to do The Fountain and coming off of Requiem for a Dream which was a $4 million drug movie, when the studio offered me their franchise, I was like, Oh, well maybe if I write this and I do a good job, then maybe they could perceive me as someone who could do something like The Fountain. But it was always about doing The Fountain. But as far as a superhero story, Im not You know, I dont know. Id be open to it but Im not sure whats left to look at.
[Laughing] Oh Id love to work with Hugh next time, but I dont know.
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