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J.J. Abrams has some thoughts on those The Force Awakens rip-off critiques

01.08.2016

J.J. Abrams was simply hoping he could make a movie that would do it for most STAR WARS fans when he made THE FORCE AWAKENS. He knew it was impossible for everyone to embrace it, but, as some criticize THE FORCE AWAKENS for following the story of STAR WARS a bit too closely for something that should have been advancing the saga forward, Abrams let the Awards Chatter podcast know what he hoped the film would accomplish.

I knew that, whatever we did, there would be a group of people — and I was just hoping and praying that it would be smaller than not — that would take issue with any number of things. But I knew we weren't making the movie for any other reason than we believed that it could be something meaningful and special and entertaining and worthy of people's time.

I can understand that someone might say, 'Oh, it's a complete rip-off!' What was important for me was introducing brand new characters using relationships that were embracing the history that we know to tell a story that is new — to go backwards to go forwards.

In addition, Abrams also explains why he chose not to sign on as the director for EPISODE VIII, a job Rian Johnson then took, and, while we could all say we would never give up STAR WARS if it was put in our hands, there is a lot of time and energy that goes into making these happen on the new timeline to which Disney and Lucasfilm are committed.

I realized when I was working on [THE FORCE AWAKENS], the amount of energy that was required to tell the story, and do it justice, knowing when EPISODE VIII would start shooting, there was no way — if I wanted to still have my children talk to me in my old age — that doing that would make any sense. If THE FORCE AWAKENS worked, it was be the perfect place to say, 'I got to make a Star Wars movie,' and not be a greedy bastard. If it didn't work, no-one would want me doing it anyway.

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5:39PM on 01/09/2016
I'm ok with the plots being similar. Honestly not even surprised. The prequels were nothing like the originals, and they got a lot of hate for that. Just like the man said, we needed some old to remind us the direction the stories will be going, and a little new. Everyone will disagree with how much is too much and too little. Bottom line is, we still got a great Star Wars movie, and thats more than we have gotten to say in a long time. :)

But like the rest of you, I think now I'm ready
I'm ok with the plots being similar. Honestly not even surprised. The prequels were nothing like the originals, and they got a lot of hate for that. Just like the man said, we needed some old to remind us the direction the stories will be going, and a little new. Everyone will disagree with how much is too much and too little. Bottom line is, we still got a great Star Wars movie, and thats more than we have gotten to say in a long time. :)

But like the rest of you, I think now I'm ready for a completely new plot now. And if they rehash Empire, which I see as the holy grail, then I won't be so glowing.
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4:07PM on 01/10/2016
Well said
Well said
+3
5:08PM on 01/09/2016
This argument is baffling. It is a fact that JJ borrowed or ripped off or stole a majority of the plot from a new hope. He himself has admitted it and if you require further evidence check the link that skeletor1234 has provided.
This cannot be argued. It is a fact.

The argument we are having is whether or not you accept this as ok.
I do not. Star Wars is a vast universe of races planets and monsters. There are comics, cartoons, video games, and novels that be sourced for new story
This argument is baffling. It is a fact that JJ borrowed or ripped off or stole a majority of the plot from a new hope. He himself has admitted it and if you require further evidence check the link that skeletor1234 has provided.
This cannot be argued. It is a fact.

The argument we are having is whether or not you accept this as ok.
I do not. Star Wars is a vast universe of races planets and monsters. There are comics, cartoons, video games, and novels that be sourced for new story ideas. You don't need to recycle plots from other films in the series.

People on here shit their pants at remakes. There have been REMAKES that have borrowed LESS from the original than force awakens has borrowed from a new hope. If someone presented this exact movie and called it a remake the majority of people on here would have a cow. But when it's done in the name of a sequel it seems to get a pass.

If you still like the movie that is ok. You can enjoy it. but how can you enjoy it and criticize those of us who wanted something more original or new.
I just don't get it.
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2:09PM on 01/10/2016
This is pretty good too.
[link]
This is pretty good too.
[link]
8:22PM on 01/10/2016
Skeletor1234 thats awesome at how embarrassingly similar those shots are.
Skeletor1234 thats awesome at how embarrassingly similar those shots are.
2:04PM on 01/09/2016
I liked it. It took what I loved about the originals and, as one critic put it, made a remix that was recognizable, did fan service, and I also found fun and engaging on its own terms. While another poster did point out a lot of the weaknesses with the prequels were in the acting and CGI, I also would say, for my own part, that the Jedi have typically been pretty boring windbags (the Dark Side is a different story). Bringing in characters like Han, Chewie, and Poe Dameron livened things up for
I liked it. It took what I loved about the originals and, as one critic put it, made a remix that was recognizable, did fan service, and I also found fun and engaging on its own terms. While another poster did point out a lot of the weaknesses with the prequels were in the acting and CGI, I also would say, for my own part, that the Jedi have typically been pretty boring windbags (the Dark Side is a different story). Bringing in characters like Han, Chewie, and Poe Dameron livened things up for me, because I had characters who aren't super-powered mingling with the Force-users. Considering what a make-or-break gamble this was as far as what the fans wanted, I think they did a good job of giving us something new along with something old. The criticism I hear more is the lack of a clear villainous badass.
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+1
2:00PM on 01/09/2016
I got exactly what I wanted: Space wizards with lazer swords!
I got exactly what I wanted: Space wizards with lazer swords!
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1:56PM on 01/09/2016
It was a good movie - stop being a fucking hipster-hater.
It was a good movie - stop being a fucking hipster-hater.
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1:26PM on 01/09/2016
Where is George's interview from 1977 about how he ripped off "The Hidden Fortress"? Oh there isn't one? Are you telling me filmmakers are inspired by other films and legends and use them as templates to launch new stories with new characters? This is shocking to me. I always assumed that every single great film is a total original idea with zero inspiration from any other film out there.
Where is George's interview from 1977 about how he ripped off "The Hidden Fortress"? Oh there isn't one? Are you telling me filmmakers are inspired by other films and legends and use them as templates to launch new stories with new characters? This is shocking to me. I always assumed that every single great film is a total original idea with zero inspiration from any other film out there.
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8:21PM on 01/09/2016
hahahah, yeh but JJ drew inspiration from about 90 percent of a from its own franchise. It was almost like watching those cheapo straight to dvd films where they change the title a little bit.
hahahah, yeh but JJ drew inspiration from about 90 percent of a from its own franchise. It was almost like watching those cheapo straight to dvd films where they change the title a little bit.
1:06AM on 01/10/2016
Your arguments are so flimsy they actually make me chuckle to myself.

And please learn English.
Your arguments are so flimsy they actually make me chuckle to myself.

And please learn English.
8:31PM on 01/10/2016
My arguments flimsy??? is that why we are posting on an article where JJ addresses those who thought the force awakens was a rip off. Cant just be me then can it? By the way. Great link posted by Skeletor1234. Worth a look.

[link]
My arguments flimsy??? is that why we are posting on an article where JJ addresses those who thought the force awakens was a rip off. Cant just be me then can it? By the way. Great link posted by Skeletor1234. Worth a look.

[link]
12:43PM on 01/09/2016
Having only seen it once, I'm of the opinion that whereas it didn't offer much new to the franchise, I think it actually reestablishes things quite well allowing for more interesting sequels. I enjoyed the film but it didn't blow me away, but the scenarios it sets up make me interested to see the next instalment. That may seem like weak praise for The Force Awakens, but there's a degree to which this film needed to reinitialise the core aspects of the franchise and it did that well enough. The
Having only seen it once, I'm of the opinion that whereas it didn't offer much new to the franchise, I think it actually reestablishes things quite well allowing for more interesting sequels. I enjoyed the film but it didn't blow me away, but the scenarios it sets up make me interested to see the next instalment. That may seem like weak praise for The Force Awakens, but there's a degree to which this film needed to reinitialise the core aspects of the franchise and it did that well enough. The fact Kylo Ren seems to have stronger force powers than Vader, and Rey developed hers incredibly quickly without direct assistance, suggests a new level of abilities for the series which could take it in new directions.
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-2
12:23PM on 01/09/2016

Space Battles

I'm not saying the critique of this being a rip-off isn't valid or that the plot was very surprising. I agree with all of that, and thought it while watching the film but for me it still held up as a worthy addition to the saga. I guess I just see the Star Wars films for what they are: simple eye/ear candy with fun action scenes and witty characters going on space adventures. Sure, there are deeper themes involved, but it's fucking Star Wars! The comments on this article are ridiculous. I get
I'm not saying the critique of this being a rip-off isn't valid or that the plot was very surprising. I agree with all of that, and thought it while watching the film but for me it still held up as a worthy addition to the saga. I guess I just see the Star Wars films for what they are: simple eye/ear candy with fun action scenes and witty characters going on space adventures. Sure, there are deeper themes involved, but it's fucking Star Wars! The comments on this article are ridiculous. I get it, a lot of this film was seemingly only copied to induce nostalgia. It is definitely a problem with the film and I hope it isn't a trend which continues with the sequels, but I don't think it's a filmmaking crime. And I think it is done in an original enough way that I wouldn't even call it a "rip-off." As a Star Wars fan I enjoyed every minute of this film, even with it's faults. None of these films are anywhere close to perfect. When did a popcorn flick about ancient laser-wielding wizards in space become Citizen fucking Kane?
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12:45PM on 01/09/2016
Citizen Kane didnt become the quickest and highest grossing film of all time. Thats the issue here and the issue it presents for future films. But hey its ok to pump out shit as long as people buy into it.
Citizen Kane didnt become the quickest and highest grossing film of all time. Thats the issue here and the issue it presents for future films. But hey its ok to pump out shit as long as people buy into it.
1:05PM on 01/09/2016
From what you're writing it seems you know the film could have been fresher but you're willing to give it a pass because you're happy Abrams didn't really fuck it up. But I could be reading it wrong. I had fun too. But I'd say this was definitely a missed opportunity.
From what you're writing it seems you know the film could have been fresher but you're willing to give it a pass because you're happy Abrams didn't really fuck it up. But I could be reading it wrong. I had fun too. But I'd say this was definitely a missed opportunity.
11:10AM on 01/09/2016
Also, the fact that JJ has had to come out and defend the 'rip off' subject. Means and is proof that there is a huge consensus that it was.
(I called it) headlines in a years time 'JJ frustrated by the Force Awakens'
Also, the fact that JJ has had to come out and defend the 'rip off' subject. Means and is proof that there is a huge consensus that it was.
(I called it) headlines in a years time 'JJ frustrated by the Force Awakens'
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11:12AM on 01/09/2016
Dig yourself a hole

'I can understand that someone might say, 'Oh, it's a complete rip-off!' What was important for me was introducing brand new characters using relationships that were embracing the history that we know to tell a story that is new — to go backwards to go forwards.'

What bulls**t
Dig yourself a hole

'I can understand that someone might say, 'Oh, it's a complete rip-off!' What was important for me was introducing brand new characters using relationships that were embracing the history that we know to tell a story that is new — to go backwards to go forwards.'

What bulls**t
11:15AM on 01/09/2016
History will not be kind to that film.
History will not be kind to that film.
11:39AM on 01/09/2016
This is true Jimmy. If he couldnt get away with it on the 'Into Darkness' Why should he have a pass here. His crimes far outweigh those of 'Into Darkness' Which I personally didn't mind as a film.
This is true Jimmy. If he couldnt get away with it on the 'Into Darkness' Why should he have a pass here. His crimes far outweigh those of 'Into Darkness' Which I personally didn't mind as a film.
11:00AM on 01/09/2016
I think I would have rather watched a film that challenged new ideas and had it failed miserably than watch the generic mass appeasing result that we got with the force awakens. Film is art it is supposed to challenge. This did nothing other than take money from those who fail to see the blatant copying of another movie. If this is the future of the film industry, then I feel very sad indeed.
I think I would have rather watched a film that challenged new ideas and had it failed miserably than watch the generic mass appeasing result that we got with the force awakens. Film is art it is supposed to challenge. This did nothing other than take money from those who fail to see the blatant copying of another movie. If this is the future of the film industry, then I feel very sad indeed.
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12:32PM on 01/09/2016
You mean like the prequels? Because I was totally thinking "this sure is shit but I appreciate them trying something new" when I watched those.

Sheesh.
You mean like the prequels? Because I was totally thinking "this sure is shit but I appreciate them trying something new" when I watched those.

Sheesh.
12:51PM on 01/09/2016
The overall problem with the prequels were the acting and heavy reliance on CGI plus the addition of a very annoying character. Not whether the film copied another film. The prequels could have worked under a different director. The force Awakens will suffer the same criticism as George Lucas did. Made a ton of money but overall the film / films were pretty poor.
The overall problem with the prequels were the acting and heavy reliance on CGI plus the addition of a very annoying character. Not whether the film copied another film. The prequels could have worked under a different director. The force Awakens will suffer the same criticism as George Lucas did. Made a ton of money but overall the film / films were pretty poor.
10:27AM on 01/09/2016
It's kind of amazing that JJ Abrams had the chance to work on both Star Trek and Star Wars and added so little to both franchises. Episode IV made us believe that the possibilities of this universe was endless, that anything could happen. The Force Awakens seemed to be telling that all the good Star Wars stories have already been told and that the only thing left to do was to tweak them.
It's kind of amazing that JJ Abrams had the chance to work on both Star Trek and Star Wars and added so little to both franchises. Episode IV made us believe that the possibilities of this universe was endless, that anything could happen. The Force Awakens seemed to be telling that all the good Star Wars stories have already been told and that the only thing left to do was to tweak them.
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10:38AM on 01/09/2016
That's exactly my point. He had an opportunity to drive both these franchises forward, but seems to have left them in a holding pattern. He makes popular movies that make bank, but he's not making unforgettable classics even though he seems to have that promise of another Spielberg or Ridley Scott.
That's exactly my point. He had an opportunity to drive both these franchises forward, but seems to have left them in a holding pattern. He makes popular movies that make bank, but he's not making unforgettable classics even though he seems to have that promise of another Spielberg or Ridley Scott.
4:48PM on 01/09/2016
I really feel JJ and Disney should be ashamed. Anyone defending this movie is just a casual fan of Star Wars and really doesn't love it.

The prequels well they sucked cause George Lucas is not an actors director or script writer. He is a story teller. Not a script writer. Which is why empire was so good. You take his story and then get a proper director and script writer to do it.
The prequels didn't have a repeated story or Even a shit story it just wasn't presented very well. And at
I really feel JJ and Disney should be ashamed. Anyone defending this movie is just a casual fan of Star Wars and really doesn't love it.

The prequels well they sucked cause George Lucas is not an actors director or script writer. He is a story teller. Not a script writer. Which is why empire was so good. You take his story and then get a proper director and script writer to do it.
The prequels didn't have a repeated story or Even a shit story it just wasn't presented very well. And at least they show us new locations and tried to be different.

JJ is just a lazy fuck. But really why should he not be. Half the fools on the internet Give him a pass.

Mentioning other movies as copying storylines is retarded. Star Wars is not like rocky or something where rocky is a fighter and there is only so much you can do. This is Star Wars. Perhaps the biggest universe of worlds and characters of all time. More than lord of the rings. But no the Death Star is the only weapon. Why not have the weapon be a person. Or alien. Or robot. Or those worms that the force cannot affect. Or why do you need a weapon. Empire had no ultimate goal it was a filler movie and it's the best one. You can tell a good NEW story of you want too.
Fucking doctor who didn't repeat itself, Star Trek didn't really do it either until lazy boy JJ came around. docotor who has over 30 seasons and it never really tells the exact same story twice.
1:10AM on 01/11/2016
I give JJ a pass because I have honestly never expected a lot of creativity from him. He's a true fanboy is all, and he is really good at emulating other movies styles and giving the audience more of what they already love. Seriously, go down his directing resume. MI:3, great movie, but its already in an established universe with cast and style. Super 8, looked exactly like an old Spielberg scifi a la ET. Star Trek? Looked like a Star Trek movie made like a Star Wars movie. I love all of
I give JJ a pass because I have honestly never expected a lot of creativity from him. He's a true fanboy is all, and he is really good at emulating other movies styles and giving the audience more of what they already love. Seriously, go down his directing resume. MI:3, great movie, but its already in an established universe with cast and style. Super 8, looked exactly like an old Spielberg scifi a la ET. Star Trek? Looked like a Star Trek movie made like a Star Wars movie. I love all of em, but none push the envelope really. Theres still lot of future SW movies to look forward to that can push the stories to new directions. Im personally excited about Episode VIII with Rian Johnson. Looper was definitely something different in my book.
10:05AM on 01/09/2016

Fun movie, lazy writing...

If you look at Abrams' body of movie work, he seems reluctant to take risks and embrace anything original - this was even the case with Super 8. His choices are telling.
He appears to want to jump on board things that people are already fans of instead of making films that create new legions of fans. He won't ever accomplish anything truly great on his own merit without taking more risks or at least branching out from all these franchises he has latched himself onto.
If you look at Abrams' body of movie work, he seems reluctant to take risks and embrace anything original - this was even the case with Super 8. His choices are telling.
He appears to want to jump on board things that people are already fans of instead of making films that create new legions of fans. He won't ever accomplish anything truly great on his own merit without taking more risks or at least branching out from all these franchises he has latched himself onto.
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11:24AM on 01/09/2016
It was basically a new ride at Disney.
It was basically a new ride at Disney.
-3
2:35AM on 01/09/2016
Oh please. Can you stop whining? So the plot is similar to episode 4? Who gives a fuck? "Return of the jedi" recycelt elements of "a new hope" as well. It's a very basic plot and completely fine to introduce new characters and set up new stories while calming down the fans (no shady politics and force "science").
Oh please. Can you stop whining? So the plot is similar to episode 4? Who gives a fuck? "Return of the jedi" recycelt elements of "a new hope" as well. It's a very basic plot and completely fine to introduce new characters and set up new stories while calming down the fans (no shady politics and force "science").
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11:42AM on 01/09/2016
' Who gives a fuck?'

evidence of the representation in support of this movie. Those that dont care.
' Who gives a fuck?'

evidence of the representation in support of this movie. Those that dont care.
12:54AM on 01/09/2016
At least he admits it. What a horribly boring movie this was.
At least he admits it. What a horribly boring movie this was.
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11:58PM on 01/08/2016
remember in a new hope when the empire was looking for a map to find yoda and then they killed Obi Wan and a group of villagers. Then Luke, who was left by himself on a planet that he never wanted to leave, ended up teaming up with Han Solo, a former Storm Trooper running from the empire. Then he found Yodas old light saber and decided he wanted nothing to do with the force and then got kidnapped and interrogated by Darth Vader but only to over power him. Then Vader kills his own dad then loses
remember in a new hope when the empire was looking for a map to find yoda and then they killed Obi Wan and a group of villagers. Then Luke, who was left by himself on a planet that he never wanted to leave, ended up teaming up with Han Solo, a former Storm Trooper running from the empire. Then he found Yodas old light saber and decided he wanted nothing to do with the force and then got kidnapped and interrogated by Darth Vader but only to over power him. Then Vader kills his own dad then loses in a fight to Luke Skywalker as the Death Star begins to explode. Then there's that end scene to set up Empire Strikes back when Luke finds Yoda. Awakens totally stole the whole story. Unbelievable.
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1:59PM on 01/09/2016
If I could man I'd up vote this twice!
If I could man I'd up vote this twice!
2:35PM on 01/09/2016
It exactly ripped off the entire premise. If it were another movie not named Star Wars, Disney would have sued. To even pretend this was an original story is a non-starter. It followed Ep. 4 beat for beat. That may have been something you enjoyed, but you sure can't pretend it wasn't the same story recycled
It exactly ripped off the entire premise. If it were another movie not named Star Wars, Disney would have sued. To even pretend this was an original story is a non-starter. It followed Ep. 4 beat for beat. That may have been something you enjoyed, but you sure can't pretend it wasn't the same story recycled
11:20PM on 01/08/2016
what do you guys want? an original movie with jar jar binks, or a rip-off movie with good dialogue, great fights and characters you really care about?
what do you guys want? an original movie with jar jar binks, or a rip-off movie with good dialogue, great fights and characters you really care about?
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9:55PM on 01/08/2016
Episode 7 was fucking great!
Episode 7 was fucking great!
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9:08PM on 01/08/2016

Wasn't Surprised

J.J. did something very similar to this with Star Trek Into Darkness. So I kind of expected it with The Force Awakens. Here's hoping we don't get The First Order Strikes Back next year.
J.J. did something very similar to this with Star Trek Into Darkness. So I kind of expected it with The Force Awakens. Here's hoping we don't get The First Order Strikes Back next year.
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9:13PM on 01/08/2016
Yup he did.
Yup he did.
8:52PM on 01/08/2016
So hold on. He knew he was ripping off another star wars movie and was prepared for a group that would point it out.
That sounds like an admission.
So hold on. He knew he was ripping off another star wars movie and was prepared for a group that would point it out.
That sounds like an admission.
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9:20PM on 01/08/2016
Yup he is.
I can't believe I am having this argument with people. I love Star Wars. I don't want it to suck or be a rip off. I want new ideas. I can't believe people are giving a pass to this. It's mind boggling.
It's not a shit movie or something. It's fun etc but I cannot turn off my knowledge of the previous films.
Yup he is.
I can't believe I am having this argument with people. I love Star Wars. I don't want it to suck or be a rip off. I want new ideas. I can't believe people are giving a pass to this. It's mind boggling.
It's not a shit movie or something. It's fun etc but I cannot turn off my knowledge of the previous films.
10:52AM on 01/09/2016
J-Man, I felt exactly the same walking out of the cinema. My friends and I looked at one another and said exactly the same thing. Nothing New here. Which was a shame as I had some hope that we were going to be getting a film that would be worthy of the franchise. Unfortunately I walked out feeling I had just watched another boring modern reboot.
J-Man, I felt exactly the same walking out of the cinema. My friends and I looked at one another and said exactly the same thing. Nothing New here. Which was a shame as I had some hope that we were going to be getting a film that would be worthy of the franchise. Unfortunately I walked out feeling I had just watched another boring modern reboot.
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6:10PM on 01/09/2016
Rey is Kylos cousin? I missed that part.
Rey is Kylos cousin? I missed that part.
7:34PM on 01/08/2016
I liked the Force Awakens, but my concern is that with it's success, studios will want to make sequels that are basically copying the plot from a previous film, instead of something new. This year alone, you had Jurassic World, Vacation, and Terminator Genesys basically doing that, to varying degrees of success. It's playing safe instead of taking risks, in some sense. I'm just hoping it doesn't become a trend. Maybe the whole plan was the have Episode VII make us think we know where the story
I liked the Force Awakens, but my concern is that with it's success, studios will want to make sequels that are basically copying the plot from a previous film, instead of something new. This year alone, you had Jurassic World, Vacation, and Terminator Genesys basically doing that, to varying degrees of success. It's playing safe instead of taking risks, in some sense. I'm just hoping it doesn't become a trend. Maybe the whole plan was the have Episode VII make us think we know where the story is going by setting up a similar story, only to completely give us a surprise with the next movie.
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7:46PM on 01/08/2016
We waited decades for episode 8 and got episode 4.
We are giving JJ a pass for no reason.
We waited decades for episode 8 and got episode 4.
We are giving JJ a pass for no reason.
+5
6:18PM on 01/08/2016
It's ok that episode 7 was a rip off of episode 4. 8 can rip off 5 then 9 can be 6 then start the entire process over. According to the Internet people like watching the same story being told over and over but just swapping characters names or genders.
It's not like Star Wars is a vast universe where thousands of unique stories can be told. It's not like there are tons of comics, RPGs, cartoons, and novels to get story ideas from. No Star Wars is a puny little franchise and the fans of it
It's ok that episode 7 was a rip off of episode 4. 8 can rip off 5 then 9 can be 6 then start the entire process over. According to the Internet people like watching the same story being told over and over but just swapping characters names or genders.
It's not like Star Wars is a vast universe where thousands of unique stories can be told. It's not like there are tons of comics, RPGs, cartoons, and novels to get story ideas from. No Star Wars is a puny little franchise and the fans of it don't deserve to be given new and exciting ideas. Let's play it easy and give them the same stories over and over again. Bring on another Death Star and here's to Rey losing her hand in episode 8.
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9:03PM on 01/08/2016
I applaud you sir.
I applaud you sir.
10:56PM on 01/08/2016
Episode 4 was about a race to find Luke Skywalker? And which character names were swapped?
Episode 4 was about a race to find Luke Skywalker? And which character names were swapped?
11:28PM on 01/08/2016
Episode 4 was about introducing a young kid to the force so he would restore order and defeat the evil empire. Funny... I just saw a movie with the same premise very recently...
Episode 4 was about introducing a young kid to the force so he would restore order and defeat the evil empire. Funny... I just saw a movie with the same premise very recently...
12:05AM on 01/09/2016
You can make most movies sound the same when you give vague descriptions.
You can make most movies sound the same when you give vague descriptions.
12:29AM on 01/09/2016
Lets test that theory amigo... State one movie, any movie using the same vague description I used. (This should be fun...)
Lets test that theory amigo... State one movie, any movie using the same vague description I used. (This should be fun...)
7:14AM on 01/09/2016
Oooh oooh, I know!! Ep. I - The Phantom Menace!

I kid, I kid. :P

How about "Peter Pan" or "The Fellowship of the Ring", or "The Wizard of Oz", or "Hunger Games", or "The Lion King", or "Harry Potter", or "Chronicles of Narnia", or "The Matrix" or "Willow".

Sure, it's not the same Force or the same Galactic Empire - those are exclusive to this universe. But they share similarities. The enemy is incredibly powerful and rules the "world", is hellbent on destroying the hero, and there's a
Oooh oooh, I know!! Ep. I - The Phantom Menace!

I kid, I kid. :P

How about "Peter Pan" or "The Fellowship of the Ring", or "The Wizard of Oz", or "Hunger Games", or "The Lion King", or "Harry Potter", or "Chronicles of Narnia", or "The Matrix" or "Willow".

Sure, it's not the same Force or the same Galactic Empire - those are exclusive to this universe. But they share similarities. The enemy is incredibly powerful and rules the "world", is hellbent on destroying the hero, and there's a sense of mystery/mysticism that gives power to the hero and/or villain. Not always, of course, there's no "magic" in the "The Lion King" or "Hunger Games". Sometimes, the "force" analog is the hero's courage.
10:53AM on 01/09/2016
If similarities between Episode 4 and Episode 7 ended at the plot synopsis, there would be no problem. As many people pointed out, it's very easy to transform a synopsis and put the emphasis on the similarities or the differences, depending on your agenda.

No, what is truly inexcusable, is the amount of callbacks in the film. (SPOILERS BELOW)

- Why is there an R2D2-like robot lost on another desert planet?
- Why is the main villain still related to one the main characters?
- Why does
If similarities between Episode 4 and Episode 7 ended at the plot synopsis, there would be no problem. As many people pointed out, it's very easy to transform a synopsis and put the emphasis on the similarities or the differences, depending on your agenda.

No, what is truly inexcusable, is the amount of callbacks in the film. (SPOILERS BELOW)

- Why is there an R2D2-like robot lost on another desert planet?
- Why is the main villain still related to one the main characters?
- Why does the plot involve another Death Star-like weapon? That was already considered lazyy when Episode 6 came out.
- Why does the Han Solo-Kylo Ren confrontation happen in the same setting the first Luke-Darth Vader confrontation ended? (An Episode 5 callback is still a callback)
- Why does the mentor die in front of his protégé, like Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon before?

And I know it's possible to explain why the Empire still exist in some form, and why it still uses Stormtroopers, but come on!

Better filmmakers could have told Rey's story and make it feel like a new story, even if a story like hers has been told many times before. The problem is that Abrams chose to go with the familiar every time he could. Every. Single. Time.
11:50AM on 01/09/2016
I would say Miguel made my point
I would say Miguel made my point
4:47PM on 01/09/2016
I'd say... No he didn't... See I can boil down most movies also as good vs evil. Let me remind you that it was you saying that TFA was a different movie because the movie was about a treasure hunt for Luke ... (which is fair) but when I stated that it was about a kid learning the force to defeat the empire, all you could say is most movies could be described using my vague description. (witty response...)

Then we had Miguelito say that if the force means something else and if the evil empire
I'd say... No he didn't... See I can boil down most movies also as good vs evil. Let me remind you that it was you saying that TFA was a different movie because the movie was about a treasure hunt for Luke ... (which is fair) but when I stated that it was about a kid learning the force to defeat the empire, all you could say is most movies could be described using my vague description. (witty response...)

Then we had Miguelito say that if the force means something else and if the evil empire means something else then we could describe the Lion King the same way... Yup because everyone explains the Lion King to someone else as young Simba learning the force to defeat evil Scar and the Empire. Way to use my analogy by not using the analogy...

My point is, if you said a young kid learns the force to defeat the evil empire everyone knows you're referring to ANH, until now... now it applies exactly to TFA. But I give up, Everyone has the right to like what they like (even if they liked it before...)
5:11PM on 01/09/2016
If we're obligated to use the exact same characteristics as your analogy (young kid, force, restore order, defeat Empire), then Ep. VII fails to match your description because there's no Empire in TFA. The villanous organization in TFA is the First Order.

You had no problem using the Galactic Empire as an analogue for the First Order. Why, then, am I not allowed to use analogues the way you did?
If we're obligated to use the exact same characteristics as your analogy (young kid, force, restore order, defeat Empire), then Ep. VII fails to match your description because there's no Empire in TFA. The villanous organization in TFA is the First Order.

You had no problem using the Galactic Empire as an analogue for the First Order. Why, then, am I not allowed to use analogues the way you did?
6:24PM on 01/09/2016
Ahhh...!!! You got me...!!! It's the New Order not the Empire!!! That's why the movies are so different. Not to mention of course the stormtroopers, and the Tie fighters and the Mega Death Stars, the quasi Vaders and the Peter Cushing wanabe's and the .... Well Done Miguelito, you've proved me wrong...
Ahhh...!!! You got me...!!! It's the New Order not the Empire!!! That's why the movies are so different. Not to mention of course the stormtroopers, and the Tie fighters and the Mega Death Stars, the quasi Vaders and the Peter Cushing wanabe's and the .... Well Done Miguelito, you've proved me wrong...
7:36PM on 01/09/2016
Your vague description challenge - which is what we're discussing, or have you forgotten? - makes it sound like the Empire is the evil organization in Ep. VII, when it's not. Your description, which is what you were daring people to give one example of (which didn't include stormtroopers, Tie Fighters etc., why are you altering the challenge?), when followed strictly like you demanded, doesn't match TFA. Why are you now mocking me for doing EXACTLY what you asked?

Is it because my previous
Your vague description challenge - which is what we're discussing, or have you forgotten? - makes it sound like the Empire is the evil organization in Ep. VII, when it's not. Your description, which is what you were daring people to give one example of (which didn't include stormtroopers, Tie Fighters etc., why are you altering the challenge?), when followed strictly like you demanded, doesn't match TFA. Why are you now mocking me for doing EXACTLY what you asked?

Is it because my previous post shines light on the idea that your vague description of Ep. VII is [partially] incorrect?
Are you denying it? Are you saying it's 100% correct and an excellent and truthful synopsis of TFA?

Your description challenge fits Ep. I, doesn't it? That was my first choice, remember. You asked just one movie, I immediately gave you that one. By the way, did you pursue this line of specific critique/challenge back in 1999? Why/why not?

Plus, I kindly gave you other examples as a bonus (when not needed) and even explained why some are more like your vague description than others. I saw you using analogues (Empire instead of First Order) and assumed I could do the same. For instance, Harry Potter as the young kid, magic as the "Force", Voldemort and gang as the "Empire"; or Neo as the young kid, the power to influence the Matrix as the "force", the A.I.s as the "Empire".

I didn't mind that you used the Galactic Empire - your analogue for the First Order - in your description of Ep. VII until you criticized me for using the same method in my examples.

In short: I can only use equal characteristics. You, on the other hand, can use analogues. Why? Is this "challenge" one of those "do as I say, don't do as I do" types of situations?
1:05AM on 01/10/2016
No Miguelito, what we are discussing is how much does the TFA "borrows" from ANH. It's almost a remake, a rehash of the same plot line. Some folks don't see it that way and others do and don't care. That is what is being discussed. That is why I made the description of the movie.

If you feel you need to describe Toy Story by using the force and the empire, go ahead be my guest. If you can't see that the First Order and The Empire are the same thing, then like I said before, You Win. I have
No Miguelito, what we are discussing is how much does the TFA "borrows" from ANH. It's almost a remake, a rehash of the same plot line. Some folks don't see it that way and others do and don't care. That is what is being discussed. That is why I made the description of the movie.

If you feel you need to describe Toy Story by using the force and the empire, go ahead be my guest. If you can't see that the First Order and The Empire are the same thing, then like I said before, You Win. I have no interest to find out how Harry Potter defeats the Empire.

BTW, there's no Empire (or equivalent) in PM, and I criticized that movie not because it repeated plot lines but because it was just a bad story. But at least they attempted something new.
5:00AM on 01/10/2016
No, what we're discussing is the specifics of your "dare", that's why I replied here and didn't post a "normal" comment in the main tree of the article. I replied to you specifically. About the specific challenge you proposed. Can't you tell? ;)

You ARE denying that your description of TFA fails to be 100% truthful without resorting to comparable elements! Amazing! That is so intellectually dishonest!

Read my posts again and try to understand what you are demanding others to do, wich you
No, what we're discussing is the specifics of your "dare", that's why I replied here and didn't post a "normal" comment in the main tree of the article. I replied to you specifically. About the specific challenge you proposed. Can't you tell? ;)

You ARE denying that your description of TFA fails to be 100% truthful without resorting to comparable elements! Amazing! That is so intellectually dishonest!

Read my posts again and try to understand what you are demanding others to do, wich you didn't do.

You used the Empire as an analogue for the First Order (analogue is something comparable to another, but not equal). I was fine with it until you mocked me for doing the same in the examples. Why are you still mocking me for doing what you were the first to do, to begin with?

So, I point out that, if you demand of others what you failed to do in the original premise (exact precision), then the premise is [partially] incorrect when applied to Ep. VII.

Plus, that it fits Ep. I better. Why? Because it introduces a young Vader/Anakin (check!) that WILL use the force (check!) to bring about the destruction of the Empire (check!). We KNOW this is true because we have seen the rest of Vader/Anakin's story.

In TFA, you are introduced to a young Rey (check!) that MIGHT use the force (not check, remains to be seen) to destroy the First Order (not the Galactic Empire, not check; First Order destruction remains to be seen, not check).

You DON'T KNOW that your description of Ep. VII, taken as an analogue (which, to be applicable, we have to), will be accurate until the end of ep. IX. Sure, we can speculate, but you can't state a possible future outcome as fact TODAY.
6:05PM on 01/08/2016
"I knew that, whatever we did, there would be a group of people"

exactly, we live in a world of retarded trolls who thrive on nothing but negativity.
"I knew that, whatever we did, there would be a group of people"

exactly, we live in a world of retarded trolls who thrive on nothing but negativity.
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6:29PM on 01/08/2016
So you don't want new stories? You want recycled plots? It's ok if you do but I don't. And I don't think I am troll for wanting something new.
So you don't want new stories? You want recycled plots? It's ok if you do but I don't. And I don't think I am troll for wanting something new.
6:54PM on 01/08/2016
This was a new story, sure it had similarities. But you guys are crying over spilt milk. The great filmmakers know that for a successfull sequel, you have to give your audience what they liked in the first place and add a few new fresh elements. Thats a quote directly from Stan Winston. They had to ease people back in and unforunately origin stories often times have the same archetypal narrative. superheros for example. Person didnt have powers, person gets powers, person learns to deal with
This was a new story, sure it had similarities. But you guys are crying over spilt milk. The great filmmakers know that for a successfull sequel, you have to give your audience what they liked in the first place and add a few new fresh elements. Thats a quote directly from Stan Winston. They had to ease people back in and unforunately origin stories often times have the same archetypal narrative. superheros for example. Person didnt have powers, person gets powers, person learns to deal with powers, person saves the day. You could apply that narrative to 90% of freshly rated superhero movies.
7:08PM on 01/08/2016
have you seen episode 4? The entire structure is the same. The first 35 mins are exactly the same. There are also negative points in the original stuff. Like Rey learning the force quick enough to be able to defeat Kylo ren who can stop laser blasts.
You cannot honestly tell me you were fine with another Death Star. Really. Can't there be a new thing for the finale of the movie. It's the climax of the movie and they have to deactivate the sheild around the weak spot. How can you give a pass
have you seen episode 4? The entire structure is the same. The first 35 mins are exactly the same. There are also negative points in the original stuff. Like Rey learning the force quick enough to be able to defeat Kylo ren who can stop laser blasts.
You cannot honestly tell me you were fine with another Death Star. Really. Can't there be a new thing for the finale of the movie. It's the climax of the movie and they have to deactivate the sheild around the weak spot. How can you give a pass on this lazy writing.
I follow your posts you seem to be a rational person. I just can't give the pass on this movie.
I liked the new characters a lot. Thank god for that, otherwise this would be a total loss.
The star killer is also a weird weapon. It drains a sun? So then it can only shoot once and then has to find another sun to drain. Or does it store power? If so how does it store power from the sun. That's pretty fucking amazing technology.
I don't see how some can give such a pass on this movie.
10:43PM on 01/08/2016
So what if Starkiller base is a larger Death Star? It makes sense to make a larger and more powerful version. Look at reality. First we made atomic bombs now we have bombs thousands times more powerful. Why wouldn't they do the same? Also, who questions technology in Star Wars? A series where light sabers exist, the force exists, the theory of relativity doesn't appear to exist and instant light speed exists. When it comes to Rey defeating Kylo Ren, don't forget they clearly showed that she was
So what if Starkiller base is a larger Death Star? It makes sense to make a larger and more powerful version. Look at reality. First we made atomic bombs now we have bombs thousands times more powerful. Why wouldn't they do the same? Also, who questions technology in Star Wars? A series where light sabers exist, the force exists, the theory of relativity doesn't appear to exist and instant light speed exists. When it comes to Rey defeating Kylo Ren, don't forget they clearly showed that she was already good with a staff when fighting on Jakku and also Kylo Ren was shot by Chewies blaster. Kylo was hurt and bleeding which they showed when he kept pounding his wound to get adrenaline. I would also say the plots are not the same at all either. Sure there are similarities in the storytelling but that does not mean the plot is the exact same.
11:57PM on 01/08/2016
"exactly, we live in a world of retarded trolls who thrive on nothing but negativity."

You're joking right... Surely you can read what he said... He copied ANH... on purpose... and the best part... " to go backwards to go forwards." As in order to tell a new story you have to repeat the old one" I must be one of those retarded trolls in order to understand that logic...

Sad part is people are so biased that they defend this... You folks want to see what a great re-entry into an existing
"exactly, we live in a world of retarded trolls who thrive on nothing but negativity."

You're joking right... Surely you can read what he said... He copied ANH... on purpose... and the best part... " to go backwards to go forwards." As in order to tell a new story you have to repeat the old one" I must be one of those retarded trolls in order to understand that logic...

Sad part is people are so biased that they defend this... You folks want to see what a great re-entry into an existing universe looks like... Mad Max Fury Road. The only thing I think that could had improved that movie was having Mel as Max. (Hardy did a great job BTW) And even if Hardy's character wasn't Rockatansky, the movie still works. The world is still wasted and Max spirit is still ... Mad. That is how "embracing the history that we know to tell a story that is new" is done...
10:34AM on 01/09/2016
See BrerB8a understands. In War its the evolution of who has the bigger gun. A Stardestroyer is basically a mini death star. IT flies around and shoots and destroys ships. A death star floats around and shoots and destroys a planet. A starkiller destroys STAR SYSTEMS. This all stems from the beginning of the first weapon. A stone being thrown.

Also, how did Rey beat Kylo? well its heavily hinted that shes had training before (not mentioning the 15 years shes defended and fended for herself
See BrerB8a understands. In War its the evolution of who has the bigger gun. A Stardestroyer is basically a mini death star. IT flies around and shoots and destroys ships. A death star floats around and shoots and destroys a planet. A starkiller destroys STAR SYSTEMS. This all stems from the beginning of the first weapon. A stone being thrown.

Also, how did Rey beat Kylo? well its heavily hinted that shes had training before (not mentioning the 15 years shes defended and fended for herself on a hostile planet) hmmmmmmmm is it possible that this is the FIRST film in a trilogy that doesn't want to blow its figurative load in one movie? quite possibly.
5:01PM on 01/09/2016
If you're implying that the studios would bet the movie would be a rousing success, using just lazy writing and count on the blind enthusiasm of fans to have a mega hit, I agree completely. Why blow their load or use any new good ideas or new plot narratives or present a new great story. (that takes work and be willing to risk something). Everyone knows that good stories are in short supply...

Well, it's been fun. May the force be with you all.
If you're implying that the studios would bet the movie would be a rousing success, using just lazy writing and count on the blind enthusiasm of fans to have a mega hit, I agree completely. Why blow their load or use any new good ideas or new plot narratives or present a new great story. (that takes work and be willing to risk something). Everyone knows that good stories are in short supply...

Well, it's been fun. May the force be with you all.
5:46PM on 01/08/2016

I mean none of the good Star Wars movies had original or complex plots.

The first one was just the hero's journey. 2/3rds (now 3/4ths) of the good ones revolved around blowing up a Death Star. And the best one is just a sentence long: "The Empire sets a trap for Luke.". It was never that much about plot counter-plot, double-cross triple-cross, yadda yadda, it was always enjoyable characters in a wacky and thrilling space adventure.
THAT ALL BEING SAID - the next one had better subvert things and not just be a straight Empire beat sheet.
The first one was just the hero's journey. 2/3rds (now 3/4ths) of the good ones revolved around blowing up a Death Star. And the best one is just a sentence long: "The Empire sets a trap for Luke.". It was never that much about plot counter-plot, double-cross triple-cross, yadda yadda, it was always enjoyable characters in a wacky and thrilling space adventure.
THAT ALL BEING SAID - the next one had better subvert things and not just be a straight Empire beat sheet.
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10:12PM on 01/08/2016
The plot of Empire may not have been complex but it was extremely original. The big battle was at the beginning of the film and it ended with a one-on-one battle, which the hero lost. It's one of the best examples of a genre film choosing to tell the story the right way instead of following a formula.
The plot of Empire may not have been complex but it was extremely original. The big battle was at the beginning of the film and it ended with a one-on-one battle, which the hero lost. It's one of the best examples of a genre film choosing to tell the story the right way instead of following a formula.
7:08AM on 01/16/2016
None of the Star Wars movies had complex plots?????? Shouldnt that have made it easier for JJ to do something more 'Original ' then?
None of the Star Wars movies had complex plots?????? Shouldnt that have made it easier for JJ to do something more 'Original ' then?
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