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Joss Whedon talks Avengers: Age of Ultron and the state of the genre

Jun. 18, 2014by: Sean Wist

With THE AVENGERS becoming the highest grossing comic book movie of all time, that only accelerated plans to bring more to the masses. And at the end of the day, perhaps more is too much. Now, I wasn't THE AVENGERS' biggest fan. Sure, it was fun, but the end of the film just felt like CG shit flying into other CG shit, and I'm happy to report that it seems Joss Whedon is all too aware of that. In a recent interview, he had a few things to point out about that aspect of comic book flicks.

In regards to mass destruction:

People have made it very clear that they are fed up with movies where entire cities are destroyed, and then we celebrate.

In regards to what's considered one of the greatest comic book films:

Now, I watched THE DARK KNIGHT and I thought of that as riffing on the genre. That was a superhero movie as THE GODFATHER. But I just still want to see a superhero movie! We had just gotten the technology to make it awesome, and I wasn't ready to be post-modern about it yet.

Speaking about the state of comic book films, and how that will affect AVENGERS: AGE OF ULTRON:

People come in with a certain amount of emotional baggage, so, whether we're in our larvae stage or our decadent stage, I can't really say, but I try to make my superhero movies as if there's either never been one or there's only ever been them. I work with the idea that it's just a natural way for people to be, so that you still make a movie about people.

THE AVENGERS took a more comedic angle during most of its runtime and that worked in the film's favor. Joss Whedon knew how to throw these characters together, and make it entertaining. I really hope he avoids the mass destruction angle and instead really digs into the drama of the characters. CAPTAIN AMERICA: THE WINTER SOLDIER did a great job of that, and I hope that'll carry over to what's sure to break box-office numbers come next May.

AVENGERS: AGE OF ULTRON will bring the humanity on May 1, 2015.

I'm really diggin' Elizabeth Olsen in that outfit!

Source: Huffington Post

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3:30PM on 06/19/2014

You're all forgetting one thing.....

My opinion is the only one that matters.
My opinion is the only one that matters.
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1:21PM on 06/19/2014

Comic book is a medium, not a genre

The Dark Knight was based on the Long Halloween comic, one of the greatest Batman comic ever made which is full of Godfather references. The movie before it, Batman Begins, was based on Year One, a comic even more realistic than the film. Nolan did not invent "realistic Batman", he just took the comics that did and adapted them to his personal style. That's what filmmakers should do: strike a balance between faithfulness to the source material and a few personal touches to suit their style.
The Dark Knight was based on the Long Halloween comic, one of the greatest Batman comic ever made which is full of Godfather references. The movie before it, Batman Begins, was based on Year One, a comic even more realistic than the film. Nolan did not invent "realistic Batman", he just took the comics that did and adapted them to his personal style. That's what filmmakers should do: strike a balance between faithfulness to the source material and a few personal touches to suit their style. Whedon understood that, first with Astonishing X-Men, then with the Avengers movie.

P.S.: So glad to read his comments about destruction. Been there, done that, move on already!
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8:31AM on 06/19/2014
I thought one of the smartest things Nolan did was to just make a great film that happened to have Batman in it. Nothing wrong with that approach, though I'm glad we get to see a different take with Batman vs Superman.
I always felt The Dark Knight was closer to Michael Mann's film Heat than The Godfather, personally.
Plenty of room for interpretation with superhero films, though. Comics reinterpret their characters all the time.
I think Whedon's mix of humour and action is perfect for The
I thought one of the smartest things Nolan did was to just make a great film that happened to have Batman in it. Nothing wrong with that approach, though I'm glad we get to see a different take with Batman vs Superman.
I always felt The Dark Knight was closer to Michael Mann's film Heat than The Godfather, personally.
Plenty of room for interpretation with superhero films, though. Comics reinterpret their characters all the time.
I think Whedon's mix of humour and action is perfect for The Avengers, but now the team's established I'd hope Age Of Ultron will have a bit more substance and allow him to make the epic comicbook movie he wants to.
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11:59PM on 06/18/2014
People complain about Goyer but Goyer had nothing to do with the Green Lantern movie. Goyer does a good job of setting a dark tone for movies. The Marvel movies have all had lighter tones. The darkest Marvel movie was the Incredible Hulk (and before that Ang Lee's Hulk) and it was less successful. How are they going to do a Hulk movie without scenes of destruction?
People complain about Goyer but Goyer had nothing to do with the Green Lantern movie. Goyer does a good job of setting a dark tone for movies. The Marvel movies have all had lighter tones. The darkest Marvel movie was the Incredible Hulk (and before that Ang Lee's Hulk) and it was less successful. How are they going to do a Hulk movie without scenes of destruction?
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12:51AM on 06/19/2014
While I don't hate Goyer and actually think the Man of Steel script was well-written, some of his attitudes towards DC characters are troubling (Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter in particular) and Blade Trinity is a good example of how badly things can go if he's completely in charge. It came off as cheesier and sillier than the earlier two Blade movies.
While I don't hate Goyer and actually think the Man of Steel script was well-written, some of his attitudes towards DC characters are troubling (Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter in particular) and Blade Trinity is a good example of how badly things can go if he's completely in charge. It came off as cheesier and sillier than the earlier two Blade movies.
1:56AM on 06/19/2014
I'd say Green Lantern was just as dark as the Incredible Hulk. It came out looking like a comedy/family friendly fare only because of the main leads and the director's overuse of CGI.
I'd say Green Lantern was just as dark as the Incredible Hulk. It came out looking like a comedy/family friendly fare only because of the main leads and the director's overuse of CGI.
4:15AM on 06/19/2014
Yeah, one of the characters kills his father by setting him on fire.
Yeah, one of the characters kills his father by setting him on fire.
10:07PM on 06/18/2014

Well who cares...

I love destruction. Only thing I didn't get is the destruction in Man Of Steel??? Can somebody explain to me how they can rebuild a city so fast LOL. I want their to be destruction and realism and all that it'll be boring if we don't have any of that stuff LOL.
I love destruction. Only thing I didn't get is the destruction in Man Of Steel??? Can somebody explain to me how they can rebuild a city so fast LOL. I want their to be destruction and realism and all that it'll be boring if we don't have any of that stuff LOL.
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+0
9:43PM on 06/18/2014

Enough of the crying

Now we continue the crying over destruction and wait for it comic movies! Really what's next no cgi at all or have movies with Hulk or Thor that are kind in violence. Give me a break! These are comic movies so if you read the comics you know destruction is part of the game and now that we have the effects to do it people want to cry. COmics movies are not oscar contenders they are suppose to be popcorn action loaded movie. Cap 2 did not need much cgi since he is not say hulk or superman but
Now we continue the crying over destruction and wait for it comic movies! Really what's next no cgi at all or have movies with Hulk or Thor that are kind in violence. Give me a break! These are comic movies so if you read the comics you know destruction is part of the game and now that we have the effects to do it people want to cry. COmics movies are not oscar contenders they are suppose to be popcorn action loaded movie. Cap 2 did not need much cgi since he is not say hulk or superman but they did have destruction and some cgi. Try that iwth Avengers 2 and it will suck!
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9:29PM on 06/18/2014
I think that while the climactic fight against the Chitauri in The Avengers was a little generic in hindsight (mass of alien invaders...again) it wasn't what the movie was about. The movie was about how this group of heroes worked through their differences and their squabbles and assembled as a surprisingly effective team. And on that front, it delivered. Being a big summer comic book action blockbuster, there had to be a big battle at the end, but even then it was exciting and fun to watch
I think that while the climactic fight against the Chitauri in The Avengers was a little generic in hindsight (mass of alien invaders...again) it wasn't what the movie was about. The movie was about how this group of heroes worked through their differences and their squabbles and assembled as a surprisingly effective team. And on that front, it delivered. Being a big summer comic book action blockbuster, there had to be a big battle at the end, but even then it was exciting and fun to watch because of the parts each Avenger played in it. There have been so many alien invasions set in cities, so I thought the beachhead Normandy landing-style attack sequence in Edge of Tomorrow was quite refreshing.
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+1
7:44PM on 06/18/2014
In the comics, sections of towns were being destroyed every issue...almost. When you consider that Spider-Man had about 5 different titles at the time I was collecting them...all running different stories...good ol Spidey, was f**king up towns left right and centre. Then you have to factor in the other titles...Hulk on his own...Hulk as part of the Avengers....Iron Man, one would think the east coast of the US was in a permanent state of being levelled. Good job the Avengers didn't also
In the comics, sections of towns were being destroyed every issue...almost. When you consider that Spider-Man had about 5 different titles at the time I was collecting them...all running different stories...good ol Spidey, was f**king up towns left right and centre. Then you have to factor in the other titles...Hulk on his own...Hulk as part of the Avengers....Iron Man, one would think the east coast of the US was in a permanent state of being levelled. Good job the Avengers didn't also operate in the west coast :o) I have no issues with cities being levelled. I have problems with heroes seemingly not caring about it. It's not hard to write in little bits here and there, indicating this. I sound like a broken record on this...but Superman 2 did it the best. "He cares. He actually cares for these Earth people." Why, yes, yes he does Zod. It's also no surprise why Batman Begins is my best Batman movie...it did the little things right, like Alfred having a go at Wayne for f**king up the city and putting people in danger when rescuing Rachel. It's not hard to write this stuff in to the story.
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7:24PM on 06/18/2014
Joss Whedon can suck a dick. Whedon called 'Empire Strikes Back' a bad movie with a bad ending, and he also had the audacity to say that he would have "directed it better". He's also the same guy who ripped off 'Outlaw Star' and called it 'Firefly'. I'm expecting to get hundreds of down votes now because apparently Whedon is a "god". The guy has been the showrunner on 6 tv shows; 3 of them have been good, and 3 have been bad. He's also only directed 2 movies; one has been good, and one bad.
Joss Whedon can suck a dick. Whedon called 'Empire Strikes Back' a bad movie with a bad ending, and he also had the audacity to say that he would have "directed it better". He's also the same guy who ripped off 'Outlaw Star' and called it 'Firefly'. I'm expecting to get hundreds of down votes now because apparently Whedon is a "god". The guy has been the showrunner on 6 tv shows; 3 of them have been good, and 3 have been bad. He's also only directed 2 movies; one has been good, and one bad. Whedon isn't a nerd god, and we should stop pretending that everything he does is amazing.
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7:29PM on 06/18/2014
Empire Strikes Back is perhaps one of the most grossly overrated films of all time.
Empire Strikes Back is perhaps one of the most grossly overrated films of all time.
9:22PM on 06/18/2014
Agreed. Empire was alright, but I too find it over-rated. That said, to each their own, so bashing a director for feeling Empire wasn't as good, well he is entitled to feel that way as you are to love Empire.
I enjoy the Nolanverse Batman movies, but I also think they are heavily over-rated.
Agreed. Empire was alright, but I too find it over-rated. That said, to each their own, so bashing a director for feeling Empire wasn't as good, well he is entitled to feel that way as you are to love Empire.
I enjoy the Nolanverse Batman movies, but I also think they are heavily over-rated.
9:35PM on 06/18/2014
I don't even hate Whedon, I just wish people would rate him properly. He's a pretty good writer and director, but I know a lot of people who think he's one of the greatest of all time (writing and directing wise). Whedon's Avengers is a good film, but it's far from perfect, yet fanboys pretend that it's the best comic-book film of all time (it's not even close). Also, I find Empire Strikes Back to be a touch overrated too, but Whedon said it was "bad". There's a big difference between overrated
I don't even hate Whedon, I just wish people would rate him properly. He's a pretty good writer and director, but I know a lot of people who think he's one of the greatest of all time (writing and directing wise). Whedon's Avengers is a good film, but it's far from perfect, yet fanboys pretend that it's the best comic-book film of all time (it's not even close). Also, I find Empire Strikes Back to be a touch overrated too, but Whedon said it was "bad". There's a big difference between overrated and bad.
3:18PM on 06/18/2014

I'm sick of people complaining about reality in films

I hope Joss doesn't take these people seriously, the Man of Steel complaints are shallow complaints that people needed to tag on the movie because they don't like the Superman character. Just like when these people whine about Clark snapping Zod's neck to save people, then pointing out Superman killed Zod & the Kryptonians even more horribly in Superman 2 (with a smile on his face, then he drops a building on them). It was surreal and confusing in so many ways to have to confront so many comic
I hope Joss doesn't take these people seriously, the Man of Steel complaints are shallow complaints that people needed to tag on the movie because they don't like the Superman character. Just like when these people whine about Clark snapping Zod's neck to save people, then pointing out Superman killed Zod & the Kryptonians even more horribly in Superman 2 (with a smile on his face, then he drops a building on them). It was surreal and confusing in so many ways to have to confront so many comic book fans with this, even a couple famous comic writers who complained being schooled by fans and other writers. Just make it, Joss. Good, bad, if people want to hate on something, they will literally create controversies.
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3:49PM on 06/18/2014
Lol, just because people disliked a movie, idiots like you have to come crawling out of the woodwork and say its a personal vendetta against Superman. I am a huge Superman fan, but Man of Shit sucked. It wasn't a good movie, it wasn't a good Superman movie and it sucked as a comic book movie. Anyway you look at it, the movie was horrible.
Lol, just because people disliked a movie, idiots like you have to come crawling out of the woodwork and say its a personal vendetta against Superman. I am a huge Superman fan, but Man of Shit sucked. It wasn't a good movie, it wasn't a good Superman movie and it sucked as a comic book movie. Anyway you look at it, the movie was horrible.
4:07PM on 06/18/2014
If idiots like you make stupid logic leaps, you are going to get called on it. Your dumb opinion means squat in the realities of the films. Both Avengers and Man of Steel had huge, devistating, building destroying, and city wide battles, but one film was targeted by very bitter snobs who cared about background "innocent people" in one film, and not another. Might as well scream "I am a huge Hypocrite"
If idiots like you make stupid logic leaps, you are going to get called on it. Your dumb opinion means squat in the realities of the films. Both Avengers and Man of Steel had huge, devistating, building destroying, and city wide battles, but one film was targeted by very bitter snobs who cared about background "innocent people" in one film, and not another. Might as well scream "I am a huge Hypocrite"
5:17PM on 06/18/2014
Zod slides a gas tanker (a lex corp tanker at that) across the street to hit Superman and Superman literally skips over it, letting it hit the building, explode, and destroy the building. C'mon. And don't give the me the whole 'learning what it meant to be Superman' speech, because he was already saving people in the beginning of the movie!
Zod slides a gas tanker (a lex corp tanker at that) across the street to hit Superman and Superman literally skips over it, letting it hit the building, explode, and destroy the building. C'mon. And don't give the me the whole 'learning what it meant to be Superman' speech, because he was already saving people in the beginning of the movie!
5:36PM on 06/18/2014
I don't know what this mastertampon is crying about. Man of Shit? Really? It was that bad you have to say there was nothing good about it at all?.....You don't come across as biased or overly touchy one littel bit King Joffrey. I thouhgt the cast was great (Kostner, Diane Lane, Amy frickin Adams, Henry Cavill, Michael Shannon, Christopher Meloni) great story, a little long I will give you that, but nothing good about it at all? Who cares about mass destruction or realism as long as overall in
I don't know what this mastertampon is crying about. Man of Shit? Really? It was that bad you have to say there was nothing good about it at all?.....You don't come across as biased or overly touchy one littel bit King Joffrey. I thouhgt the cast was great (Kostner, Diane Lane, Amy frickin Adams, Henry Cavill, Michael Shannon, Christopher Meloni) great story, a little long I will give you that, but nothing good about it at all? Who cares about mass destruction or realism as long as overall in the end we get a good Superman movie. You're never going to get a Best Picture of the Year for a Superman movie so stop yo bitchin boy. Exactly thank you......
6:19PM on 06/18/2014
fury159, think about it for 2 seconds, a tanker was tossed/kicked/slid supes way with the strength of a kryptonian. under normal circumstances im sure he could have stopped it. weight + velocity etc. if someone lightly throws an apple at your face, it might hurt, but you will stop it. Now take someone with your same physical strength and they WHIP IT at your face. Yes its the same apple but the damage will be 10x worse. Now lets see what happens to superman if zod kicked or threw the tanker
fury159, think about it for 2 seconds, a tanker was tossed/kicked/slid supes way with the strength of a kryptonian. under normal circumstances im sure he could have stopped it. weight + velocity etc. if someone lightly throws an apple at your face, it might hurt, but you will stop it. Now take someone with your same physical strength and they WHIP IT at your face. Yes its the same apple but the damage will be 10x worse. Now lets see what happens to superman if zod kicked or threw the tanker at him with his strength. Either it would hit superman and explode. it would hit superman and superman would go through it and it would explode behind him or it would hit superman pushing it and superman into the building and explode. superman would have to slow down the velocity of the truck b4 he could conceivably stop it. the likely thing to happen would be it would hit superman and superman wouldu tear through it because the material the truck is made of is light weight metal that would be easily torn. so taking all that into account.....that is why superman hopped over it.
6:20PM on 06/18/2014
you know what? forget the apple example. take a car rolling at you at 0.5 kilometers an hour. if you brace yourself you could stop it (with difficulty). now increase the velocity of that car to [link] kms an hour. all your stength will mean n othing to that car, even tho the weight and mass of the car has not changed.
you know what? forget the apple example. take a car rolling at you at 0.5 kilometers an hour. if you brace yourself you could stop it (with difficulty). now increase the velocity of that car to [link] kms an hour. all your stength will mean n othing to that car, even tho the weight and mass of the car has not changed.
6:59PM on 06/18/2014
@jongotti6..Yeah, Masterdebator88 called it Man of Shit in a reply to my comment too. Picture him trollin
@jongotti6..Yeah, Masterdebator88 called it Man of Shit in a reply to my comment too. Picture him trollin
9:20PM on 06/18/2014
To be fair, Superman's whole thing is to take the hit no one else can, so he could have TRIED to stop the tanker. I get it, Kryptonian hits harder than the world around Superman, but he should have been willing to take the hit to protect the city. It's not like it would have killed him.
I enjoyed MOS, didn't love it, but comparing the devastation between MOS and Avengers seems unfair. Even when his mom was about to be killed by Zod and Fiora, Superman flys in at tackles him do more city
To be fair, Superman's whole thing is to take the hit no one else can, so he could have TRIED to stop the tanker. I get it, Kryptonian hits harder than the world around Superman, but he should have been willing to take the hit to protect the city. It's not like it would have killed him.
I enjoyed MOS, didn't love it, but comparing the devastation between MOS and Avengers seems unfair. Even when his mom was about to be killed by Zod and Fiora, Superman flys in at tackles him do more city damage than he should have, leaving his mom at the mercy of Fiora. Nothing happened, but it always bothered me that he didn't stand his ground to protect her, or the city. He just let loose without caring about the people. To me, that bothered me simply because it doesn't feel like a savior anymore, just a super powered freak forgetting why he saves people.
Avengers, as many posted, made the effort to tell audiences that they are trying to keep people out of harms way. That was their goal, protect the city and the people. Superman's was simply hit them with everything, including building and nuclear plants and trains etc. It just didn't feel right to me, not the devastation, it added realism, but the lack of empathy for all the innocent HE helped put in harms way, something Superman Returns actually did right. MOS, only the very beginning back story etc. That big battle, though SHOULD have been destructive and devastating, it made Superman less super and more just man of power. In my opinion anyway.
8:11AM on 06/19/2014
@GodMagnus, this was exactly my issue with the whole movie. There is no way of looking at all that damage and not saying it's his fault. He's Superman for God's sake!
@GodMagnus, this was exactly my issue with the whole movie. There is no way of looking at all that damage and not saying it's his fault. He's Superman for God's sake!
3:03PM on 06/18/2014
to the Sexy Olsen. I love the pic and her.
to the Sexy Olsen. I love the pic and her.
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2:47PM on 06/18/2014
The Avengers: Thousands of people killed in an alien invasion, people love it.
Man of Steel: Thousands of people killed in an alien invasion, people hate it.
I know MoS wasn't perfect and the mass destruction bothered me, but The Avengers gets away with the same thing. Is it because it's basically treated as a comedy? In both movies the heroes are accidentally responsible for bringing the invaders to earth, one of the heroes steers a villain into some buildings (Stark and the giant space
The Avengers: Thousands of people killed in an alien invasion, people love it.
Man of Steel: Thousands of people killed in an alien invasion, people hate it.
I know MoS wasn't perfect and the mass destruction bothered me, but The Avengers gets away with the same thing. Is it because it's basically treated as a comedy? In both movies the heroes are accidentally responsible for bringing the invaders to earth, one of the heroes steers a villain into some buildings (Stark and the giant space worm/Superman and Zod) and when Hulk runs through that office building do you really think he's not crushing some people? I like both movies, but when people damn Man of Steel over the destruction and praise The Avengers and ignore the destruction, it bugs me.
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3:16PM on 06/18/2014
Did you see the Avengers? There was violence and destruction, but nothing like the scale of Man of Steel. Metropolis was thrashed, buildings were falling thanks to the dub step generator. They did not do that to New York, it was a battle, but the Avengers actively saved civilians and clearly saved the city.
Did you see the Avengers? There was violence and destruction, but nothing like the scale of Man of Steel. Metropolis was thrashed, buildings were falling thanks to the dub step generator. They did not do that to New York, it was a battle, but the Avengers actively saved civilians and clearly saved the city.
3:21PM on 06/18/2014
If people need that pointed out, they are already telling you they are hypocrites. Just don't even waste the time trying to explain something so obvious, because they wont register it because they mentally seen a different film than you or I did apparently.
If people need that pointed out, they are already telling you they are hypocrites. Just don't even waste the time trying to explain something so obvious, because they wont register it because they mentally seen a different film than you or I did apparently.
3:35PM on 06/18/2014
Avengers difference is they went out of their way to save civilians during their battles. They were conscious of their surroundings and were trying to SAVE NY.

Man of Shit just acted like he didn't care and thrashed Zod all around Metropolis, doing more damage than Zod and his goons did. The only person he cried for was his enemy when he killed him, not for the hundreds of people he just killed.
Avengers difference is they went out of their way to save civilians during their battles. They were conscious of their surroundings and were trying to SAVE NY.

Man of Shit just acted like he didn't care and thrashed Zod all around Metropolis, doing more damage than Zod and his goons did. The only person he cried for was his enemy when he killed him, not for the hundreds of people he just killed.
6:55PM on 06/18/2014
Thousands of people DID NOT die in Avengers. You must have not been paying attention, because the Avengers & the police were evacuating everyone underground and moved them out of the area that was under attack. This film went out of its way to show The Avengers as heroes saving civilians, and it even showed them rescuing people still trapped in buildings. The film could have focused entirely on the fighting, but it didn't. It showed the civilians in the area under attack being saved. That's
Thousands of people DID NOT die in Avengers. You must have not been paying attention, because the Avengers & the police were evacuating everyone underground and moved them out of the area that was under attack. This film went out of its way to show The Avengers as heroes saving civilians, and it even showed them rescuing people still trapped in buildings. The film could have focused entirely on the fighting, but it didn't. It showed the civilians in the area under attack being saved. That's what Superheroes do, they save people. During this attack not a single building collapsed, and we never saw a single person die.

Man of Steel went out of its way to show us the bodies of innocent civilians raining from the sky as they jumped from falling skyscrapers (by inappropriately exploiting the imagery of 9/11). We saw half the city smashed into literal dust.
6:54AM on 06/19/2014
avengers had kiddy action where as the action in mos was abit more adult, i guess most peoole on here are kids.
avengers had kiddy action where as the action in mos was abit more adult, i guess most peoole on here are kids.
12:41PM on 06/19/2014
I realize he's Superman and all but he is only on being and the Avengers are a team. Being able to delegate civilian saving was crucial to that movie and not really on option for MoS. Who was Supes supposed to delegate to? If we're talking about story failures, where was the military? They showed up in force to put him in cuffs, but left Metropolis to crumble.

The final battle was fought after the attempted terraforming event, and there were scenes of the masses running for their lives. That
I realize he's Superman and all but he is only on being and the Avengers are a team. Being able to delegate civilian saving was crucial to that movie and not really on option for MoS. Who was Supes supposed to delegate to? If we're talking about story failures, where was the military? They showed up in force to put him in cuffs, but left Metropolis to crumble.

The final battle was fought after the attempted terraforming event, and there were scenes of the masses running for their lives. That could've been happening over the entire city, just off screen leaving many of the buildings empty.

I'd say the death toll was in the thousands, but to say that the final slap fight between Supes and Zod killed more people than giant death machines on both sides of the planet is pure exaggeration. To say it was his fault is asinine. What would've happened if he did nothing? The entire population of Earth would've been destroyed.

I think it poses the question: Was all the collateral damage (in dollars and lives) worth the saving of the planet?

Hopefully it's a question answered in the next movie.
5:35PM on 06/19/2014
@jsin.atomic

He is one being with the ability to travel as fast as Quicksilver in X-Men: DOFP.

Watch Superman vs The Elite. We see Superman behave as recklessly as he did in Man of Steel (and the movie treats it as a horrible act that goes against everything Superman is), but thanks to his super speed things weren't exactly what they seemed.
@jsin.atomic

He is one being with the ability to travel as fast as Quicksilver in X-Men: DOFP.

Watch Superman vs The Elite. We see Superman behave as recklessly as he did in Man of Steel (and the movie treats it as a horrible act that goes against everything Superman is), but thanks to his super speed things weren't exactly what they seemed.
2:33PM on 06/18/2014

Where is the Threat?

I understand not wanting to tread the same ground as the first Avengers or Man of Steel. I understand the frustration with almost every movie turning into some sort of disaster flick in the last act. I feel its tired too but if Zod or Ultron or Apocalypse or whoever is not causing destruction what exactly is the threat. I mean you cant tell me Avengers 3 is going to have Thanos come to Earth and just hurt the Avengers feelings.
I understand not wanting to tread the same ground as the first Avengers or Man of Steel. I understand the frustration with almost every movie turning into some sort of disaster flick in the last act. I feel its tired too but if Zod or Ultron or Apocalypse or whoever is not causing destruction what exactly is the threat. I mean you cant tell me Avengers 3 is going to have Thanos come to Earth and just hurt the Avengers feelings.
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2:37PM on 06/18/2014
Maybe the threat is exactly that, the threat of destruction. Maybe superheroes can be more proactive.
Maybe the threat is exactly that, the threat of destruction. Maybe superheroes can be more proactive.
3:43PM on 06/18/2014
The threat is where to focus actually lies. Man of Shit focused more on buildings collapsing and destruction of the city rather than the actual battle between Zod and Superdud.

Avengers focused more on the heroes and their attempts to fight the enemy. But that is where Joss is coming in and saying it can't always be that kind of a finale. There has to be some way to have a showdown and not make it look like a retread of heroes fighting an enemy in the city.

When Thanos comes to town,
The threat is where to focus actually lies. Man of Shit focused more on buildings collapsing and destruction of the city rather than the actual battle between Zod and Superdud.

Avengers focused more on the heroes and their attempts to fight the enemy. But that is where Joss is coming in and saying it can't always be that kind of a finale. There has to be some way to have a showdown and not make it look like a retread of heroes fighting an enemy in the city.

When Thanos comes to town, that battle will be interesting. They will have to make sure to reroute the battle away from civilization. Perhaps take the battle to Thanos?? That way we don't get the Villain destroying NYC finale that we got in Avengers 1 and are obviously getting multiple times in Avengers 2 (vs mutants in the start and vs Ultron in finale).
6:06PM on 06/18/2014
I like the idea of the hero rerouting the threat of destruction but wont it feel a little anti climatic in comparison to what has come before.
I like the idea of the hero rerouting the threat of destruction but wont it feel a little anti climatic in comparison to what has come before.
2:25PM on 06/18/2014
And adding to my previous post, Captain America has also suffered loss as well with all of his friends being dead and all, and with his one true love (Peggy) being older and not being able to remember him at times.

What I'm saying is that I want Tony and possibly Banner to have to deal with some personal sacrifices and/or personal losses as well.
And adding to my previous post, Captain America has also suffered loss as well with all of his friends being dead and all, and with his one true love (Peggy) being older and not being able to remember him at times.

What I'm saying is that I want Tony and possibly Banner to have to deal with some personal sacrifices and/or personal losses as well.
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2:41PM on 06/18/2014
Banner had to voluntarily lose everyone, I think that's worse.

Stark already had his arc over 4 movies. What would he learn now?

Banner had to voluntarily lose everyone, I think that's worse.

Stark already had his arc over 4 movies. What would he learn now?

3:00PM on 06/18/2014
I just don't want them to be untouchable. I mean they can't save EVERYBODY they care about every single time. That's why I have a feeling that Pepper and/or Rhodey might die.
I just don't want them to be untouchable. I mean they can't save EVERYBODY they care about every single time. That's why I have a feeling that Pepper and/or Rhodey might die.
3:11PM on 06/18/2014
Apricot 1. I agree that is worse. Losing people you know are still there but You CANT have them in your life. Death, while tough, has a sense of closure.
Apricot 1. I agree that is worse. Losing people you know are still there but You CANT have them in your life. Death, while tough, has a sense of closure.
3:47PM on 06/18/2014
Tony has already gone through enough. You don't want to make him the poster child for the only man in the marvel universe with problems. His PTSD from Avengers and the personalized problems in Iron Man 3 has made his character well rounded. Also, we have gotten glimpses and news stories saying Banner will be the one with personal loss this time around. Either his GF (Betty?) dies or something happens to Black Widow (his crush) and he goes apeshit. We know he will be fighting the Avengers in
Tony has already gone through enough. You don't want to make him the poster child for the only man in the marvel universe with problems. His PTSD from Avengers and the personalized problems in Iron Man 3 has made his character well rounded. Also, we have gotten glimpses and news stories saying Banner will be the one with personal loss this time around. Either his GF (Betty?) dies or something happens to Black Widow (his crush) and he goes apeshit. We know he will be fighting the Avengers in this movie.
2:22PM on 06/18/2014
I just hope the sequel goes in a darker route while still being uplifting somewhat. The only Avenger that has really suffered loss is Thor. In that his mother died in The Dark World and he thinks his brother Loki is dead. I would like to see the 'stakes' raised a bit more with some of the other Avengers.
I just hope the sequel goes in a darker route while still being uplifting somewhat. The only Avenger that has really suffered loss is Thor. In that his mother died in The Dark World and he thinks his brother Loki is dead. I would like to see the 'stakes' raised a bit more with some of the other Avengers.
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2:16PM on 06/18/2014
Excellent point, but I don't think massive destruction is necessarily uncalled for in these movies. If I'm going to see characters like Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, and Hulk team up in a movie, I don't want to see them dancing around in a meadow. I want to see destruction, I want to a villain so powerful that he can destroy buildings without a second thought, I also want to see villains that are evil enough to want to do things like that. Having that, IMO, would justify the need for the
Excellent point, but I don't think massive destruction is necessarily uncalled for in these movies. If I'm going to see characters like Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, and Hulk team up in a movie, I don't want to see them dancing around in a meadow. I want to see destruction, I want to a villain so powerful that he can destroy buildings without a second thought, I also want to see villains that are evil enough to want to do things like that. Having that, IMO, would justify the need for the superheroes in the first place.

But I think where Avengers succeeded and MOS failed, is that during a crisis like that where there is massive destruction it needs to be shown that these heroes are putting people first. Look at the end of Avengers when the heroes were making attempts to protect the people in NYC vs. end of MOS where the people are left to fend for themselves and Superman and Zod level the city. So massive destruction in Superhero movies is good, as long as it can serve the story and the characters can address it appropriately.
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2:01PM on 06/18/2014
Whedon is right, it is getting over the top and this nonsense about the next Xmen movie being a "disaster" movie is proof of it. Say what you will about the Avengers but at the end of that movie it's very clear that those characters were making an effort to negate the destruction.
Whedon is right, it is getting over the top and this nonsense about the next Xmen movie being a "disaster" movie is proof of it. Say what you will about the Avengers but at the end of that movie it's very clear that those characters were making an effort to negate the destruction.
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1:59PM on 06/18/2014

Joss gets it! We just want a Superhero movie! Not the Godfather with some action elements.

Also his comment about city destruction and everyone celebrating like nobody died hits the mark as well. Both topics are why that Man of Steel movie was horrible. It wasn't a superhero movie and it acted like nobody was in all those buildings that were destroyed.
Also his comment about city destruction and everyone celebrating like nobody died hits the mark as well. Both topics are why that Man of Steel movie was horrible. It wasn't a superhero movie and it acted like nobody was in all those buildings that were destroyed.
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2:38PM on 06/18/2014
The Avengers did the exact same thing and got away with it - thousands of people were killed in New York, but the heroes were laughing it up most of the time and the audience didn't give a shit. Man of Steel has a more somber tone and the destruction was more realistic, and people act like it's a horrible sin committed to film. Superman was a newbie at that point and fucked up, and it looks like the next movie will deal with that head on. I think the Avengers was more disturbing because it was
The Avengers did the exact same thing and got away with it - thousands of people were killed in New York, but the heroes were laughing it up most of the time and the audience didn't give a shit. Man of Steel has a more somber tone and the destruction was more realistic, and people act like it's a horrible sin committed to film. Superman was a newbie at that point and fucked up, and it looks like the next movie will deal with that head on. I think the Avengers was more disturbing because it was almost a comedy while people were being eradicated just off screen.
3:23PM on 06/18/2014
i agreed with you, till you went full tard bashing on MoS. Over 10 building were destroyed in Avengers too.
i agreed with you, till you went full tard bashing on MoS. Over 10 building were destroyed in Avengers too.
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