My Top 10 Favorite Movies from Summer 2012 (Chris Bumbray)

Aug. 29, 2012by: Chris Bumbray
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4:14PM on 08/31/2012

Finally!!

Finally someone on this website puts TDKR in its rightful place #1!!! Avengers is overrated
Finally someone on this website puts TDKR in its rightful place #1!!! Avengers is overrated
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6:32PM on 08/30/2012

TDKR #!

Nice list, haven't scene them all but most surely will.
As for your number one slot...I totally agree with you. Perfect trilogy. Great story. Great ending. Bane was amazing.
Nice list, haven't scene them all but most surely will.
As for your number one slot...I totally agree with you. Perfect trilogy. Great story. Great ending. Bane was amazing.
Your Reply:



2:56AM on 08/30/2012
Somehow, double posted.
Somehow, double posted.
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2:34AM on 08/30/2012

I posted this below, but would like to see some responses

I rarely comment these days but this little conversation just had me nodding and shaking my head at the same time so I figure I'll throw in my 2 cents.

Firstly, overall, I enjoyed the film. Mostly for the cinematography, score, some key performances, and some great connections to Batman Begins. The movie is (in my opinion) ridiculously flawed and not even close to the other films in the series. Regardless, I'm always open to opposing views and love reading them in a hope to see a well
I rarely comment these days but this little conversation just had me nodding and shaking my head at the same time so I figure I'll throw in my 2 cents.

Firstly, overall, I enjoyed the film. Mostly for the cinematography, score, some key performances, and some great connections to Batman Begins. The movie is (in my opinion) ridiculously flawed and not even close to the other films in the series. Regardless, I'm always open to opposing views and love reading them in a hope to see a well constructed argument that will change my opinion.
@Guy Most of my nodding in approval was at your comments. Not because I agree with all your points or that we're both united in being "haters" or some other crap people without any arguments like to throw out. I nodded because you backed up every single one of your opinions with scenes from the film and how specifically they counter the morals/mythos of Batman both as a character of the comics and as a character in the Nolan films. In short, opinion backed by EVIDENCE.

Do I agree with everything. No. For one, the point about how Bruce gets back to Gotham. If we had been told that he returned to Gotham in a matter of hours or even days, I'd agree; but, if I recall, Nolan leaves a gap of a few weeks and while yes, it would be difficult, it's not impossible.

It reminds me of when The Dark Knight released and people kept going on about "plot holes". To this day, the only real "plot hole" I've actually heard mentioned is what happens to the Joker after he tosses Rachel of the building only to have Batman jump after her. It's a slight flaw, and we could have used a scene showing why Joker just left instead of causing more damage with the Gotham elite but it's not necessary. He came for Dent, couldn't find him, caused a little bit of chaos, and left. In the same way, it would be nice to see a scene showing Bruce getting back to Gotham, but since there was a reasonable amount of time, I was willing to look past it.

Also, I applaud you for staying civil and responding to the critiques.

@LelekPL
Although I applaud you staying civil and not turning this into a name calling match, I must admit most of my head shaking was at your comments. Mostly because your "arguments" are anything but. Almost every single one of your answers is "That doesn't matter", "That's not important", "Who cares about that?". These are not arguments. These are ways of avoiding the question. Guy's answers aren't "the way (he'd) have liked it to be" but are the way Nolan had written these characters and stories and they way they should have logically continued. For example, Bruce, who has been in love with Rachel since he was a child, whose respect for her leads to the climax of TDK (It's your actions that define you) and whose sadness over her death led to him becoming recluse and never venturing out to find another love would NOT sleep with the first girl he sees after knowing her for about 10 minutes. This isn't what Guy or I wanted, it's the build up of the character that Nolan had written. Remember, in Nolan's films, Rachel is as much a reason for him becoming Batman as the death of his parents. It's her anger at him almost killing Chill that leads him on the road to becoming Batman. It's illogical for him to then not just forget about her, but also "move on" with not just one, but two women in one freaking movie.

However, the argument about Bruce not coming up with a better plan than just punching Bane again is one that I side with you on. Having Batman come up with a brilliant plan is something that the Batman of the comics or Animated Series would have done but the Batman of the Nolan films hasn't ever really come up with great plans for defeating the villain. He comes up with good ways of tracking the baddies but he basically just stumbles his way into actually defeating them. Would it be cool to see him come up with a plan? Yeah. But I admit that's the Batman fanboy speaking and not based in any sort of history that Nolan built up.

That all aside, I did enjoy the back and forth between you guys. By the way, Guy, you didn't even address some of my biggest complaints with the film. Just to add fuel to the fire:

1. According to the film, the power source only becomes a bomb as it slowly becomes more and more unstable. How then, does Bane immediately know exactly how long till the Bomb explodes down to the precise second? Surely something going unstable is not calculable to that precision? Also, why the hell was there a timer on the energy source? Did Bane add it? If so, why? If he didn't, why was there a timer on an energy source?
2. During the Gordon being exiled scene, apparently the ice is so thin that Gordon and his men spread out and walk carefully with people still falling in. Wouldn't it be ridiculous if Batman, fully decked out in his 100+ pound suit, was standing right in front of them? Oh wait.
3. Also, Batman only has a few hours before the bomb blows and decides to use that time to take a bunch of gasoline (previously shown to be a rare commodity as Blake gets it for the school bus) and burn his emblem onto the bridge? Aren't there a bit more important things to do?
4. Speaking of which, how does Batman know how much time is left? In fact, seeing as how the bomb has been moving around on a closed truck since it was armed, how does anyone know how much time is left?
5. How ridiculous is the clean slate program? Gee, let's spend a whole scene with Dagget explaining to Catwoman just how RIDICULOUS the idea of a clean slate program is only to have Batman magically form one later in the film. I don't think there's any excuse for this one.
6. How terrible is Catwoman as a character? She acts like she's Robin Hood but at no point does she steal anything to help anyone other than herself. She then has the balls to tell Bruce Wayne (the millionaire philanthropist) that he should feel bad for not helping the poor. What the fuck have you done for the poor? The only things you steal in the films are for your selfish needs. Also, let's forget that you willingly took Batman to his death and yet I'm supposed to be happy that Bruce ends up with this selfish and hypocritical bitch. Oh wait, she saved Batman so it's okay. Let's ignore the fact that she saves him by KILLING, the one thing Batman disapproves of and in any sort of logical film, he would have hated her for.
7. Why does Bane trap the cops? So that what happens would happen ie. they escape and defeat him? Why wouldn't he kill them? They're trapped. Go in, shoot them. Collapse the streets on top. Anything. Also, food is a rare commodity but I guess Blake and and couple of his buddies apparently have so much to spare that they feed ALL the cops of Gotham almost singlehandedly, for 5 months. Yeah.
8. Why did Bane and Talia stick around? Batman is gone, cops are trapped, and chaos rules the streets. They could have slipped out at any point without anyone knowing. Also, was their plan always to die? Why? If you're keeping The League of Shadows alive, why would you kill all their key leaders/members in their very first post-Ra's mission? How does them dying help anything?
9. Speaking of which, Bane breaks Batman's back in the middle of his master plan. So what does he do? He takes Batman, puts him on a plane (How awkward if Bruce had woken up?), flys him to his old prison halfway around the world, takes him down said prison, and waits for old Brucey to wake up all so that he can tell Bruce that he can't die yet. Couldn't he have phoned the doctor and told him to tell Bruce? Better than flying halfway around the world in the middle of your dastardly plan.
10. How the hell does everyone in this movie know Bruce is Batman? Catwoman knows because Bane says it in front of her. Fine. How does Bane know? He was kicked out of TLOS long before Bruce joined up. Bruce destroys the headquarters when he is first there. Maybe Talia knew? But how? Ra's recovers from the explosion and heads toward Gotham. If he did meet Talia during this brief time, this is definitely a scene that needed to be filmed and included.
*Extra fanboy thing. Why is Blake named Robin? Is Bruce's real name Bruce Batman Wayne. Surely it should have been Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, Jason Todd or maybe even Terry McGinnis.

Well, I'd love to hear some responses and comments, so fire away.
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5:04AM on 08/30/2012
Regarding your last question, the fact that John Blake's legal name is revealed to be "Robin" does not mean that he will use it as his crime fighting alias. It's a very clever way of cluing the audience in as to what role this character is going to play in this universe, going forward. He could call himself Nightwing, or even keep the Batman mantle, for all we know. People seem to have misread this scene.
Regarding your last question, the fact that John Blake's legal name is revealed to be "Robin" does not mean that he will use it as his crime fighting alias. It's a very clever way of cluing the audience in as to what role this character is going to play in this universe, going forward. He could call himself Nightwing, or even keep the Batman mantle, for all we know. People seem to have misread this scene.
+0
11:35PM on 08/29/2012
Avengers was better than the Joseph Gordon Levitt show.
Avengers was better than the Joseph Gordon Levitt show.
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8:23PM on 08/29/2012
Not terrible, but far too many plot holes and such to be considered great. Half the movie crumbles quickly if scrutinized, and that's never a good sign. How did he get back to Gotham once he escaped the prison? (that question is just one example of the numerous plot holes that frustrated me) Also to try and throw a bone to the comic book fans doesn't work for a few reasons- A) it goes against everything Nolan said he wanted this franchise to be about, & (more importantly) B) he gets it wrong in
Not terrible, but far too many plot holes and such to be considered great. Half the movie crumbles quickly if scrutinized, and that's never a good sign. How did he get back to Gotham once he escaped the prison? (that question is just one example of the numerous plot holes that frustrated me) Also to try and throw a bone to the comic book fans doesn't work for a few reasons- A) it goes against everything Nolan said he wanted this franchise to be about, & (more importantly) B) he gets it wrong in all the important ways. It was unimpressive, to say the least.
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5:33PM on 08/29/2012
Avengers beats TDKR for me, just because I think TDKR is the weakest in the trilogy and the problems are very evident, unlike the previous instalments.
Avengers beats TDKR for me, just because I think TDKR is the weakest in the trilogy and the problems are very evident, unlike the previous instalments.
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1:20PM on 08/29/2012

Backlash?

What backlash? All I ever hear is TDKR is amazing, over and over again.
What backlash? All I ever hear is TDKR is amazing, over and over again.
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8:23PM on 08/29/2012
I didn't care for it at all.
I didn't care for it at all.
12:30PM on 08/29/2012
Thank you for placing this at number one. I agree that The Dark Knight Rises and Prometheus do get a lot of undue fanboy rage. It's okay to be passionate about something, but I guess we have to realise that both Christopher Nolan and Ridley Scott put in huge amounts of effort, and TDKR was a near-perfect trilogy closer that brought the curtain down in grand, satisfying fashion.
Thank you for placing this at number one. I agree that The Dark Knight Rises and Prometheus do get a lot of undue fanboy rage. It's okay to be passionate about something, but I guess we have to realise that both Christopher Nolan and Ridley Scott put in huge amounts of effort, and TDKR was a near-perfect trilogy closer that brought the curtain down in grand, satisfying fashion.
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8:26PM on 08/29/2012
Neither this nor Prometheus are perfect. TDKR tries, but gets bogged down in it's own convoluted (and ultimately pointless; thanks to plot holes) plot. "Prometheus" just sucked the big one. It made no sense. Not a single character acted like a believable person (save for Fassbender's android), and the plot holes in that garbage are bigger than the universe itself.
Neither this nor Prometheus are perfect. TDKR tries, but gets bogged down in it's own convoluted (and ultimately pointless; thanks to plot holes) plot. "Prometheus" just sucked the big one. It made no sense. Not a single character acted like a believable person (save for Fassbender's android), and the plot holes in that garbage are bigger than the universe itself.
1:35PM on 08/29/2012
TDKR was not near perfect. It was a good movie, closed the trilogy well, but was not 10/10 like a lot of people praised.
TDKR was not near perfect. It was a good movie, closed the trilogy well, but was not 10/10 like a lot of people praised.
11:01AM on 08/29/2012
Very glad this is number one. It totally deserves it.
Very glad this is number one. It totally deserves it.
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10:17AM on 08/29/2012
Nice list...until I got to your #1 pick which is overrated. I know I'm in the minority being unimpressed with this movie, but what I don't know is how people continue to gush over it. It is a terribly flawed movie that has enough character and spectacle to make it enjoyable.
Nice list...until I got to your #1 pick which is overrated. I know I'm in the minority being unimpressed with this movie, but what I don't know is how people continue to gush over it. It is a terribly flawed movie that has enough character and spectacle to make it enjoyable.
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10:10AM on 08/29/2012
We're living in a world where BATMAN AND ROBIN and ALIEN VS. PREDATOR exist.

That shit happened, people.

I think it's time (most of) you simmer down on the hate for THE DARK KNIGHT RISES and PROMETHEUS and get a grip.
We're living in a world where BATMAN AND ROBIN and ALIEN VS. PREDATOR exist.

That shit happened, people.

I think it's time (most of) you simmer down on the hate for THE DARK KNIGHT RISES and PROMETHEUS and get a grip.
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9:58AM on 08/29/2012
Love your list, and glad you included Safety Not Guaranteed, which was hell of a good time with emotion and great story. Mark Duplass had a great few years, and years to come. He's talented, and his show The League is coming with its fourth season. I agree with your number one. Batman was the first fictional character I've ever known as a toddler.
Love your list, and glad you included Safety Not Guaranteed, which was hell of a good time with emotion and great story. Mark Duplass had a great few years, and years to come. He's talented, and his show The League is coming with its fourth season. I agree with your number one. Batman was the first fictional character I've ever known as a toddler.
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-6
9:45AM on 08/29/2012

This Summer

Was a huge let down for movies. Nothing against Batman, just wanted to say that. So many movies I was looking forward to either completely sucked IMO or just were hugely disappointing. The rest of the year thankfully looks truly amazing, but we will see.
Was a huge let down for movies. Nothing against Batman, just wanted to say that. So many movies I was looking forward to either completely sucked IMO or just were hugely disappointing. The rest of the year thankfully looks truly amazing, but we will see.
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+2
5:45AM on 08/29/2012

Nah (a LOT of spoilers in this post, so be wary)

This movie isn't as strong as the previous two Batman's, let alone The Avengers. It commits a few huge faux pas when it comes to representing the character and world of Batman, for example the death of a character that was close Bruce leading him to...quit as Batman and sulk in his house for eight years? No, Batman would use that to drive him to being a better and more efficient crime fighter. Bane beats Batman in a one-on-one fist fight, Batman spends however many months training and planning
This movie isn't as strong as the previous two Batman's, let alone The Avengers. It commits a few huge faux pas when it comes to representing the character and world of Batman, for example the death of a character that was close Bruce leading him to...quit as Batman and sulk in his house for eight years? No, Batman would use that to drive him to being a better and more efficient crime fighter. Bane beats Batman in a one-on-one fist fight, Batman spends however many months training and planning so that when he returns he can...take Bane on again in a one-on-one fist fight. His conflict winning revelation in this film was to....punch Bane in his face.....that was his big master plan? He's supposed to be Batman?! However fanboyisms aside...

It has huge story line gaps (how did Bruce get back to Gotham from the middle of a desert withing enough weeks to stop the bomb AND how did he just happen to run into Selina?), huge lapse in logic (Blake knows who Batman is because he saw Bruce Wayne sad once when he was a kid? What? How is anyone OK with that really really weak writing decision?) and utterly forgets to pay respect to it's own internal narrative (Bruce Wayne is shown to be a crippled old man with no cartilage in his knees and elbows, he puts a magic brace on his knee and suddenly he's OK to be Batman again and isn't shown to have any physical weaknesses what-so-ever and can also make an impossible leap up a cave wall with no issues at all, the lack of cartilage just disappears as a narrative device. And for those who say that his physical weaknesses is what lead Bane to beat him, the cave wall climb actually goes to show that Batman was beaten by his own apathy and lack of fear, it had nothing to do with any physical weakness). Adding to this is that passage of months worth of time being handled horribly throughout the movie, the film was over-long, yet BATMAN was actually only in it for a grand total of half an hour, and that Bruce Wayne was lying down in a pit for a full straight forty minutes of running time (whilst the audience knew he'd get back up the second he was dropped off in there and was simply left to just wait for the inevitable to happen). And then also the fact that Batman's mantra is "no guns, no killing", and yet the conflict is only won by Catwoman shooting and killing Bane, and Batman lobbing endless missiles as Talia until she crashes and DIES, completely betraying the mantra of Batman and if anything showing that the only way to fight crime and win isn't by physical detainment and striking fear in the hearts of criminals, but is actually with huge guns and the deaths of your enemies.

I will agree that the themes of the movies do come full circle in this movie, and the idea of those themes are fine. But the execution of them, and the internal logic of the narrative was a complete and utter nonsensical mess. My fiancee and I left that theatre deflated and disappointed. We came out of Avengers elated, excited and running around the car park like a couple of five years old playing "I'll be Hulk and you be Thor".

(Not to be completely negative, on the plus side of TDKR, the performances and the score were both genuinely great)
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6:43AM on 08/31/2012
@Oldman,Gary

Have you read only the parts that you wanted to read? Never did I write "That doesn't matter", "That's not important", "Who cares about that?". Not once. I wrote a question asking why people seem to have a problem with Batman being able to get in a city unnoticed when that's exactly what he is known for, but that was it, a question. It's not avoiding a question (since there wasn't one in the first place), because I discussed all of the issues one by one with my own
@Oldman,Gary

Have you read only the parts that you wanted to read? Never did I write "That doesn't matter", "That's not important", "Who cares about that?". Not once. I wrote a question asking why people seem to have a problem with Batman being able to get in a city unnoticed when that's exactly what he is known for, but that was it, a question. It's not avoiding a question (since there wasn't one in the first place), because I discussed all of the issues one by one with my own interpretation, never even trying to persuade anyone, just showing my POV. You just picked and chose elements of my posts to fit your vision.

Did I write that his issues are "the way (he'd) have liked it to be"? Yeah, because that's what I felt like. I might have missused the words "most of it" somewhere in there, but some of them did felt that way. And what is the logical conclusion to a fictional character? In all due respect, what Guy wrote in some of his points is not the ultimate vision for that character, it is just his vision. Just like Nolan had his own, which I really seemed to like and enjoy.

To answer your questions... would just be another round of opposing viewpoints on a movie (which as a storytelling technique is ment to be taken in by our emotional sides, not logical, thus I never got that new "internet reviewer" rage about detailing each movie and juxtaposing it to real life logic... but that's just me rambling). Yes, I do have my own take on what you noted down - some of it I simply don't find "terrible" or "ridiculous" (mind you the proper use of quotations) as you do and for others I do have my own explanation. It's not me avoiding these issues, it's just I've been writing about them too many times to have the strength to do it even one more time. It's nothing new to me. I'm sorry if I sound harsh and I really don't mind if you think I chickened out or I have no other arguments, because I decided to post this simply because I don't like people missquoting my own words.
2:31AM on 08/30/2012
I rarely comment these days but this little conversation just had me nodding and shaking my head at the same time so I figure I'll throw in my 2 cents.
Firstly, overall, I enjoyed the film. Mostly for the cinematography, score, some key performances, and some great connections to Batman Begins. The movie is (in my opinion) ridiculously flawed and not even close to the other films in the series. Regardless, I'm always open to opposing views and love reading them in a hope to see a well
I rarely comment these days but this little conversation just had me nodding and shaking my head at the same time so I figure I'll throw in my 2 cents.
Firstly, overall, I enjoyed the film. Mostly for the cinematography, score, some key performances, and some great connections to Batman Begins. The movie is (in my opinion) ridiculously flawed and not even close to the other films in the series. Regardless, I'm always open to opposing views and love reading them in a hope to see a well constructed argument that will change my opinion.
@Guy Most of my nodding in approval was at your comments. Not because I agree with all your points or that we're both united in being "haters" or some other crap people without any arguments like to throw out. I nodded because you backed up every single one of your opinions with scenes from the film and how specifically they counter the morals/mythos of Batman both as a character of the comics and as a character in the Nolan films. In short, opinion backed by EVIDENCE.
Do I agree with everything. No. For one, the point about how Bruce gets back to Gotham. If we had been told that he returned to Gotham in a matter of hours or even days, I'd agree; but, if I recall, Nolan leaves a gap of a few weeks and while yes, it would be difficult, it's not impossible.
It reminds me of when The Dark Knight released and people kept going on about "plot holes". To this day, the only real "plot hole" I've actually heard mentioned is what happens to the Joker after he tosses Rachel of the building only to have Batman jump after her. It's a slight flaw, and we could have used a scene showing why Joker just left instead of causing more damage with the Gotham elite but it's not necessary. He came for Dent, couldn't find him, caused a little bit of chaos, and left. In the same way, it would be nice to see a scene showing Bruce getting back to Gotham, but since there was a reasonable amount of time, I was willing to look past it.
Also, I applaud you for staying civil and responding to the critiques.
@LelekPL
Although I applaud you staying civil and not turning this into a name calling match, I must admit most of my head shaking was at your comments. Mostly because your "arguments" are anything but. Almost every single one of your answers is "That doesn't matter", "That's not important", "Who cares about that?". These are not arguments. These are ways of avoiding the question. Guy's answers aren't "the way (he'd) have liked it to be" but are the way Nolan had written these characters and stories and they way they should have logically continued. For example, Bruce, who has been in love with Rachel since he was a child, whose respect for her leads to the climax of TDK (It's your actions that define you) and whose sadness over her death led to him becoming recluse and never venturing out to find another love would NOT sleep with the first girl he sees after knowing her for about 10 minutes. This isn't what Guy or I wanted, it's the build up of the character that Nolan had written. Remember, in Nolan's films, Rachel is as much a reason for him becoming Batman as the death of his parents. It's her anger at him almost killing Chill that leads him on the road to becoming Batman. It's illogical for him to then not just forget about her, but also "move on" with not just one, but two women in one freaking movie.
However, the argument about Bruce not coming up with a better plan than just punching Bane again is one that I side with you on. Having Batman come up with a brilliant plan is something that the Batman of the comics or Animated Series would have done but the Batman of the Nolan films hasn't ever really come up with great plans for defeating the villain. He comes up with good ways of tracking the baddies but he basically just stumbles his way into actually defeating them. Would it be cool to see him come up with a plan? Yeah. But I admit that's the Batman fanboy speaking and not based in any sort of history that Nolan built up.

That all aside, I did enjoy the back and forth between you guys. By the way, Guy, you didn't even address some of my biggest complaints with the film. Just to add fuel to the fire:
1. According to the film, the power source only becomes a bomb as it slowly becomes more and more unstable. How then, does Bane immediately know exactly how long till the Bomb explodes down to the precise second? Surely something going unstable is not calculable to that precision? Also, why the hell was there a timer on the energy source? Did Bane add it? If so, why? If he didn't, why was there a timer on an energy source?
2. During the Gordon being exiled scene, apparently the ice is so thin that Gordon and his men spread out and walk carefully with people still falling in. Wouldn't it be ridiculous if Batman, fully decked out in his 100+ pound suit, was standing right in front of them? Oh wait.
3. Also, Batman only has a few hours before the bomb blows and decides to use that time to take a bunch of gasoline (previously shown to be a rare commodity as Blake gets it for the school bus) and burn his emblem onto the bridge? Aren't there a bit more important things to do?
4. Speaking of which, how does Batman know how much time is left? In fact, seeing as how the bomb has been moving around on a closed truck since it was armed, how does anyone know how much time is left?
5. How ridiculous is the clean slate program? Gee, let's spend a whole scene with Dagget explaining to Catwoman just how RIDICULOUS the idea of a clean slate program is only to have Batman magically form one later in the film. I don't think there's any excuse for this one.
6. How terrible is Catwoman as a character? She acts like she's Robin Hood but at no point does she steal anything to help anyone other than herself. She then has the balls to tell Bruce Wayne (the millionaire philanthropist) that he should feel bad for not helping the poor. What the fuck have you done for the poor? The only things you steal in the films are for your selfish needs. Also, let's forget that you willingly took Batman to his death and yet I'm supposed to be happy that Bruce ends up with this selfish and hypocritical bitch. Oh wait, she saved Batman so it's okay. Let's ignore the fact that she saves him by KILLING, the one thing Batman disapproves of and in any sort of logical film, he would have hated her for.
7. Why does Bane trap the cops? So that what happens would happen ie. they escape and defeat him? Why wouldn't he kill them? They're trapped. Go in, shoot them. Collapse the streets on top. Anything. Also, food is a rare commodity but I guess Blake and and couple of his buddies apparently have so much to spare that they feed ALL the cops of Gotham almost singlehandedly, for 5 months. Yeah.
8. Why did Bane and Talia stick around? Batman is gone, cops are trapped, and chaos rules the streets. They could have slipped out at any point without anyone knowing. Also, was their plan always to die? Why? If you're keeping The League of Shadows alive, why would you kill all their key leaders/members in their very first post-Ra's mission? How does them dying help anything?
9. Speaking of which, Bane breaks Batman's back in the middle of his master plan. So what does he do? He takes Batman, puts him on a plane (How awkward if Bruce had woken up?), flys him to his old prison halfway around the world, takes him down said prison, and waits for old Brucey to wake up all so that he can tell Bruce that he can't die yet. Couldn't he have phoned the doctor and told him to tell Bruce? Better than flying halfway around the world in the middle of your dastardly plan.
10. How the hell does everyone in this movie know Bruce is Batman? Catwoman knows because Bane says it in front of her. Fine. How does Bane know? He was kicked out of TLOS long before Bruce joined up. Bruce destroys the headquarters when he is first there. Maybe Talia knew? But how? Ra's recovers from the explosion and heads toward Gotham. If he did meet Talia during this brief time, this is definitely a scene that needed to be filmed and included.
*Extra fanboy thing. Why is Blake named Robin? Is Bruce's real name Bruce Batman Wayne. Surely it should have been Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, Jason Todd or maybe even Terry McGinnis.

Well, I'd love to hear some responses and comments, so fire away.
8:34PM on 08/29/2012
Don't listen to LelekPL, you are correct on most points. One glaring problem I didn't see mentioned- Tahlia's whole plan goes like this-

"My dad kicked the guy I loved out of the League Of Shadows, and I resented him for it.

My dad died doing something that was very dangerous.

I must now finish his work because... because... I resented him and Gotham has cleaned up it's act. That makes sense right?"

Fuck no! It does not!
Don't listen to LelekPL, you are correct on most points. One glaring problem I didn't see mentioned- Tahlia's whole plan goes like this-

"My dad kicked the guy I loved out of the League Of Shadows, and I resented him for it.

My dad died doing something that was very dangerous.

I must now finish his work because... because... I resented him and Gotham has cleaned up it's act. That makes sense right?"

Fuck no! It does not!
10:33AM on 08/29/2012
There was also Bane standing on top of a car telling the people of Gotham that they're free and then rattling off Gordon's letter of confession about the death of Dent....mere scenes after killing two football teams, the mayor and threatening everyone in Gotham with a nuke and murdering a scientist in front of them all.

Why would ANYONE believe what he says about Dent was true at all? I actually couldn't think of a better scenario to further push Batman and Gordon's cover up than to have an
There was also Bane standing on top of a car telling the people of Gotham that they're free and then rattling off Gordon's letter of confession about the death of Dent....mere scenes after killing two football teams, the mayor and threatening everyone in Gotham with a nuke and murdering a scientist in front of them all.

Why would ANYONE believe what he says about Dent was true at all? I actually couldn't think of a better scenario to further push Batman and Gordon's cover up than to have an utter utter psychopathic public madman be the only person arguing it.
10:27AM on 08/29/2012
I just scanned through all this, sorry if I'm repeating anything - the film is riddled with huge gaps in logic. I'm not nitpicking, there are big things that were enough to take me out of the movie experience. All of Bane's armed thugs just standing and allowing the police to run up to them for a fist fight being one thing. What was all that about? Bane ruining Bruce Wayne via the stockmarket when the whole world can see what happened. Gary Oldman wandering around in what appear to be
I just scanned through all this, sorry if I'm repeating anything - the film is riddled with huge gaps in logic. I'm not nitpicking, there are big things that were enough to take me out of the movie experience. All of Bane's armed thugs just standing and allowing the police to run up to them for a fist fight being one thing. What was all that about? Bane ruining Bruce Wayne via the stockmarket when the whole world can see what happened. Gary Oldman wandering around in what appear to be shiny kitchens dicussing his plans with FBI agents who come from nowhere. It just goes on and on. Emotionally there were some great themes in the film, and I loved how it brought things full circle from Batman Begins - it was just very poorly plotted, the writing was very, very weak.
8:37AM on 08/29/2012
I'm sorry but I don't see a problem with any of the things you've mentioned. Most of it boils down to how you would have envisioned it and how you would have liked it to be. I understand your problems with the film but I don't see them as such. 1) I'm gonna leave it alone since you said it less important than the others. 2) He did not punch Bane in the face until the mask broke, who used his gauntlet to cut one of the "pipes". Which he didn't try to do in the first fight. 3) I don't see what
I'm sorry but I don't see a problem with any of the things you've mentioned. Most of it boils down to how you would have envisioned it and how you would have liked it to be. I understand your problems with the film but I don't see them as such. 1) I'm gonna leave it alone since you said it less important than the others. 2) He did not punch Bane in the face until the mask broke, who used his gauntlet to cut one of the "pipes". Which he didn't try to do in the first fight. 3) I don't see what that would bring to the movie. He's Batman, we're supposed to believe he's able to do it. It's not a documentary or cinema verite. 4) For me it's not guess, it's just a bond between the two, their similarities and the ability to step into each other shoes. The only thing that was odd to me there was how quickly Batman accepted that Blake knows, but that's not a biggie in the overal story. 5) When Bane fights Batman he grabs his hand and says - victory has defeated you - in my opinion that is as big of a statement about his physical state as his mental preparation. But most of all, Bruce failed because he didn't do the proper homework on Bane and on himself even. 6) Their relationship was supposed to be shallow. She is the one forcing herself on him and ultimately uses his greatest moment of weakness - Alfred's gone, the Rachel reveal - to seduce him (and who can blame him?) but the people who force him out of retirement and into life again are clearly Blake, Bane (or more importantly - the resurgence of crime in Gotham, he feels needed again, he feels a purpose to live) and Selina. Miranda just used that. 7) Again, that's what you would like to see or think would be more suiting. But it is consistant with the franchise. I think it made for a great climax and especially for the emotional punch that was the ending of the movie. Batman became the symbol of hope that it was supposed to be and it will live on. The Talia killed scenario wasn't maybe the way even I would have enjoyed, I don't even understand why they had to make her die in that scene, she could have just been arrested at that point and still be alive, but for me it showed how deterimned Batman was and how dire the situation was. He had no choice but to make that decision even if he was trying to not do it and force her to the reactor.

Like I said I am not going to convince you or you me, because we have our mind's made up. I've seen it 4 times, so I know I do. So to continue this would be pointless but I'm just trying to say that there are other points of view to this scenario and there are reasons why people like those scenes and love the movie. It's not just blind fanboyisms but rather an alternative interpretation. I'm cool with your interpretation, I understand it completely, it's just I don't see it that way and I definitely don't see it as a complete mess (which is a bit of an overstatement if you ask me, even if you didn't like it). Maybe that is why the emotional impact of TDKR was so big in my case.
8:03AM on 08/29/2012
Organised crime was over in Gotham, but he's Batman. Batman will take on street level crime regularly if he had to. It was street level crime that killed his parents, and when his parents died he didn't mope in a house for years on end, he became pro-active, filled with vengeance and became Batman. But again I know this is a fanboy criticism.

My point about his master plan against Bane, is that it's not a very good plan, at all. That exploited weakness being "punch bane in the face during a
Organised crime was over in Gotham, but he's Batman. Batman will take on street level crime regularly if he had to. It was street level crime that killed his parents, and when his parents died he didn't mope in a house for years on end, he became pro-active, filled with vengeance and became Batman. But again I know this is a fanboy criticism.

My point about his master plan against Bane, is that it's not a very good plan, at all. That exploited weakness being "punch bane in the face during a one on one fight". But that's a terrible weakness, I'm surprised he didn't do it accidentally in the first fight. If Bats couldn't fight well enough to punch Bane in the face first time around, then second time around you think he'd plan SOMETHING to take him down that didn't rely on fist-fighting the one guy to ever beat him in a fist fight. What about those sleep-laced batarangs he used a scene earlier? Where were they? Or ANYTHING else as plan. I assumed that Bruce's physical weaknesses at the start of the movie would cause him to lose, and thus having to develop a plan to beat Bane that didn't rely on him having to be as physical, that his weaknesses physically would be over-come by the strength of his intelligence. But it wasn't, he just waded back into the exact same fight that he just lost and spent four months recovering from, fists pumping until this time he knocked Bane down.

Of course people care how he got on the island. It's such a jarring editorial shift from him going from the middle of a desert in God knows what country, to the heart of Gotham within a week or so with NO exposition or explanation at all, all in one cut. It's a huge convenient plot hole and a weakness in the narrative that a throw away line, or shot of him sneaking into a League of Shadows plane heading from the prison to Gotham or something, could have covered up. It was just 'crawls out of hole' - CUT - 'in Gotham with Catwoman'.

Blake's connection is based on pure unbridled guess work. It's utter madness. They didn't work in or use his police skills to have him perhaps him do a bit of digging through Wayne Enterprises stock levels and find the tumbler and the micro-wave emitter and putting two and two together. They didn't do anything as utterly brilliant as have him turn out to be the blonde lad that was saved by Rachel Dawes and Batman during the narrows scene in Begins (where Rachel actually says "BRUCE..?" in front of a child, a child who probably just lost his parents no less). He just knows Bruce is Batman because his parents died? That's utterly weak sauce. If that was his final tipping point on top of an already well constructed argument, then fair play, but it's his ONLY argument. It has no evidence or backing behind it. Plus it makes Gordon look like a complete fool when he's the only guy at the end of the movie not to have figured out the guy who became a recluse for eight years, but funded Harvey Dent Day parties and speeches, isn't the same guy who knocked Dent off a building and disappeared for eight years the same night also.

Bane defeated Batman because Batman didn't fear death and so was not fighting to survive. He didn't have the adrenaline pumping nor a reason to survive the battle. This is actually word-for-word said in the movie by Alfred (who fears Bruce wants to fight Bane just so he can lose) and the doctor in the prison. His physical weaknesses don't play into it. At no point does Batman grab his failing crippled old man legs (nor does Bane ever target them), he just puts a Brace on one leg and his cartilage missing knees (plural) and shoulder are never mentioned again.

I'd have been OK with the ratio of Batman in the film if the Bruce side was just as compelling. But putting him in a hole that you know he'll crawl out of the second he's put in it, and leaving him there for forty minutes of his own movie, is not that compelling. Especially when many of his other scenes consist of the weak dialogue with Blake about Blake knowing who he is, and him sleeping with Talia whom he has NO chemistry with, merely ONE DAY after leaving his house and moping about for Rachel for over EIGHT YEARS?! For eight years he lives in isolation because Rachel dies, he always declines ever seeing Talia face to face when she turns up, and one day out the house and he's sexing her up?

And what you're missing with end part isn't that Batman "had no choice" but to let Talia die, but rather that whomever was writing this film thought it was a good idea to have one of the enemies shot and killed, and the other one shot at until she died. Batman may not have had a choice, but only because the writers had written it that way. They could also have written a scenario where Batman wins without all of his enemies dying, as that was the reason he left the League of Shadows, betrayed Ra's and became Batman in the first place, because he's not an executioner and believes in a fair trial. By the end of this movie, all we've been shown is that Ra's was right all along, and that evil can only be defeated by being killed or lead to it's death. That was a bit of a faux pa in Begins also when he just leave Ra's to die based purely on an argument of semantics, and basically proving Ra's point entirely, but Begins is a wonderful movie until that point so it can be forgiven a bit easier.
6:50AM on 08/29/2012
Yeah but who was he supposed to fight? Organized crime was over in Gotham.

He did defeat Bane using his weakness that he learned in the prison.

Why does anyone care how he got on the island? It's Batman... and Bruce Wayne. Getting to America is not a problem for a guy like that and sneaking in unseen is basically what he is known for.

Blake knowing Bruce's alter ego just shows the connection that they have. I didn't like it at first, but when Blake is revealed to be Robin I really
Yeah but who was he supposed to fight? Organized crime was over in Gotham.

He did defeat Bane using his weakness that he learned in the prison.

Why does anyone care how he got on the island? It's Batman... and Bruce Wayne. Getting to America is not a problem for a guy like that and sneaking in unseen is basically what he is known for.

Blake knowing Bruce's alter ego just shows the connection that they have. I didn't like it at first, but when Blake is revealed to be Robin I really liked it.

Bane defeating Batman the first time was a combination of a number of aspects. He wasn't at his full strength, his spirit wasn't were it was supposed to be and the fact that he completely ignored Bane.

The ratio of Batman in the movie is an aquired taste, I always thought Bruce is the more compelling of the two, it was always his story, so I thought the time spent in the Pit was worth the watch.

As for him killing Talia and the other driver in the truck, I think it's just as much in character as the way he dealt with Ra's and Harvey in BB and TDK. He just had to break his own rule at that time. What was he supposed to do? "Okay, I guess you have to detonate the bomb, because I can't kill you?" If there was a chance of him saving her he would do that, much like he did Joker. The only other guy he "chose not to save" was Ra's and no one had a problem with that.
5:16AM on 08/29/2012
This was a huge let down for me. I think Nolan's lost the plot *drumroll*
This was a huge let down for me. I think Nolan's lost the plot *drumroll*
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4:56AM on 08/29/2012

TDKR deserves that number one spot.

I saw this movie 3 times, in IMAX no less. Each time better than the last. Everything is just great, especially the score, holy shit. The writing is spot on and gave me chills. The cast was spot on, especially Tom Hardy's performance which was genuinely chilling.
I saw this movie 3 times, in IMAX no less. Each time better than the last. Everything is just great, especially the score, holy shit. The writing is spot on and gave me chills. The cast was spot on, especially Tom Hardy's performance which was genuinely chilling.
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+6
4:46AM on 08/29/2012

Yep

I'm with you man. I liked the Avengers but The Dark Knight had that emotional punch that the Marvel's comedy-superhero movie lacked. The conclusion was beautiful and the closure that Nolan gave these characters fitted the world very well. Also, the performances are great, the music epic and the effects amazing (after just rewatching it the other day, I simply can't get those beautiful night shots of The Bat out of my head. Very Blade Runner-ish) I know you'll get a lot of slack for this choice,
I'm with you man. I liked the Avengers but The Dark Knight had that emotional punch that the Marvel's comedy-superhero movie lacked. The conclusion was beautiful and the closure that Nolan gave these characters fitted the world very well. Also, the performances are great, the music epic and the effects amazing (after just rewatching it the other day, I simply can't get those beautiful night shots of The Bat out of my head. Very Blade Runner-ish) I know you'll get a lot of slack for this choice, but I'm in your corner on this one.
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-21
3:24AM on 08/29/2012
How can someone name Batman his "favorite comic book character" and still love TDKR ? There is, with the exeption of catwoman, nothing left that has anything to do with the comics. This ist not Bane, this is not Batman and this is definitly not Bruce Wayne. They are just characters Nolan needed to deliver his message.
How can someone name Batman his "favorite comic book character" and still love TDKR ? There is, with the exeption of catwoman, nothing left that has anything to do with the comics. This ist not Bane, this is not Batman and this is definitly not Bruce Wayne. They are just characters Nolan needed to deliver his message.
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4:47AM on 08/29/2012
What are you talking about? this installment is almost directly taken from the comics. Have you ever read Knightfall, No Man's Land or Dark Knight Returns? They're pretty well known dude, you might as well look into them
What are you talking about? this installment is almost directly taken from the comics. Have you ever read Knightfall, No Man's Land or Dark Knight Returns? They're pretty well known dude, you might as well look into them
-15
1:57AM on 08/29/2012

Typical

OBVIOUSLY TDKR had to be number 1, didn't it? Couldnt have been a more unique choice? Ugh...TDKR would be 10th or not even on my list. I am in the one (very low populated) camp that thinks TDKR is an unforgivably flawed film and perhaps the worst of one of the greatest trilogies of all time.

Not in order:
Cabin in the Woods
Moonrise Kingdom
Safety Not Guaranteed
The Amazing Spiderman
Prometheus
The Avengers
Lawless
Beasts of the Southern Wild
Being Flynn
Compliance

OBVIOUSLY TDKR had to be number 1, didn't it? Couldnt have been a more unique choice? Ugh...TDKR would be 10th or not even on my list. I am in the one (very low populated) camp that thinks TDKR is an unforgivably flawed film and perhaps the worst of one of the greatest trilogies of all time.

Not in order:
Cabin in the Woods
Moonrise Kingdom
Safety Not Guaranteed
The Amazing Spiderman
Prometheus
The Avengers
Lawless
Beasts of the Southern Wild
Being Flynn
Compliance

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