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Mark Ruffalo speaks out about the criticism towards Joss Whedon and feminism

05.06.2015

Now that AVENGERS: AGE OF ULTRON is out in full force, the major topic of discussion should be the pros and cons of the film. As we all know, a small group of folks decided to throw out some personal attacks towards the director himself, Joss Whedon, for his supposed anti-feminist trappings in regards to Black Widow's role in the film. Whedon himself deleted his Twitter account shortly after. Fast forward to today and the Hulk himself, Mark Ruffalo, was speaking a bit about Water Defense when the topic of Mr. Whedon came up.

Mark Ruffalo on the recent criticisms towards Joss Whedon:

I think it's sad. Because I know how Joss feels about women, and I know that he's made it a point to create strong female characters. I think part of the problem is that people are frustrated that they want to see more women, doing more things, in superhero movies, and because we don't have as many women as we should yet, they're very, very sensitive to every single storyline that comes up right now. But I think what's beautiful about what Joss did with Black Widow - I don't think he makes her any weaker, he just brings this idea of love to a superhero, and I think that's beautiful.

If anything, Black Widow is much stronger than Banner. She protects him. She does her job, and basically they begin to have a relationship as friends, and I think it's a misplaced anger. I think that what people might really be upset about is the fact that we need more superhuman women. The guys can do anything, they can have love affairs, they can be weak or strong and nobody raises an eyebrow. But when we do that with a woman, because there are so few storylines for women, we become hyper-critical of every single move that we make because there's not much else to compare it to.

So I know Joss really well. I know what his values are. And I think it's sad, because in a lot of ways, there haven't been as many champions in this universe as Joss is and will continue to be. And I know it hurts him. I know it's heavy on him. And the guy's one of the sweetest, best guys, and I know him - as far as any man can be a champion for women, he is that.

So it's been a little disheartening.

But I also see how much people love that aspect of it. There's an equal amount of people who find the love interest between Banner and Black Widow to be a big standout. And it's very satisfying to people. So it's a movie. People are going to have their opinions. And that's actually a great thing. The fact that this is a debate that's coming out of this movie is probably a positive thing.

I just don't think that people should get personal with Joss, because he really is - of anyone - an advocate for women. He's a deeply committed feminist.

This is by no means a gossip site, but there's no hiding the fact that this is an issue people want to talk about so I thought we'd value an opinion of someone who has worked closely with the man. Whedon has since come out to say "I just thought, Wait a minute, if I’m going to start writing again, I have to go to the quiet place. And Twitter is the least quiet place I’ve ever been in my life...It’s like taking the bar exam at Coachella," in regards to closing his Twitter account, so take from that what you will. I do appreciate Ruffalo's point that if in the end this gets people talking about and thinking about female roles in super hero movies beyond the de facto damsel in distress, then that's a good thing. I'd also like to point out that if Whedon avoided the route he went with Black Widow JUST because she's a woman, then that would defeat the whole purpose of the feminist movement.

AVENGERS: AGE OF ULTRON is now in theaters.

CLICK IMAGE TO OPEN GALLERY & SEE MORE PICS...

Extra Tidbit: Mark Ruffalo's favorite scene in AGE OF ULTRON is the same as yours; the party scene with Thor's hammer.
Source: RedditBuzzfeed

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+1
5:39PM on 05/09/2015
Can't believe this is even a discussion. Just absurd. Her relationship with Banner, and especially the Hulk were some of the best scenes in the movie :/
Can't believe this is even a discussion. Just absurd. Her relationship with Banner, and especially the Hulk were some of the best scenes in the movie :/
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11:35PM on 05/10/2015
I completely disagree, I thought they were very awkward. You want a simple comparison, look at the scenes between hawkeye & his wife, those were real & genuine. Don't get me wrong still loved the movie very much.
I completely disagree, I thought they were very awkward. You want a simple comparison, look at the scenes between hawkeye & his wife, those were real & genuine. Don't get me wrong still loved the movie very much.
10:44AM on 05/08/2015
Anyone using the term "Feminazi" needs a taser to the neck. Just like with the whole Gamergate mess, we see the men throwing that around are the bitter, bottom of the barrel, self righteous losers angry at women in general. And if you feel the urge to stand up and protect their right to have an opinion, they will in turn said/ say something that will make you want to throttle them yourself.
Anyone using the term "Feminazi" needs a taser to the neck. Just like with the whole Gamergate mess, we see the men throwing that around are the bitter, bottom of the barrel, self righteous losers angry at women in general. And if you feel the urge to stand up and protect their right to have an opinion, they will in turn said/ say something that will make you want to throttle them yourself.
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+3
10:05PM on 05/07/2015
Why do people keep feeding the trolls? No one truly believes Whedon was misogynistic towards Black Widow. They are just trolls trying to punish Whedon for his earlier pro-feminist remarks that pissed off these people. It has already been found out that several twitter accounts attacking Whedon came from one guy, this same guy also spams very misogynistic hate towards several outspoken feminists on youtube & twitter.
Why do people keep feeding the trolls? No one truly believes Whedon was misogynistic towards Black Widow. They are just trolls trying to punish Whedon for his earlier pro-feminist remarks that pissed off these people. It has already been found out that several twitter accounts attacking Whedon came from one guy, this same guy also spams very misogynistic hate towards several outspoken feminists on youtube & twitter.
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7:39PM on 05/07/2015
the opinionated troglodytes snuck in
the opinionated troglodytes snuck in
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1:18PM on 05/07/2015

Well

I hope Joss learned a valuable lesson here. Keep politics out of this.
I hope Joss learned a valuable lesson here. Keep politics out of this.
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11:35AM on 05/07/2015

HA!

“Every breed of feminism is attacking every other breed, and every subsection of liberalism is always busy attacking another subsection of liberalism, because god forbid they should all band together and actually fight for the cause,” Whedon said.

[link]

Sucks to have to eat the same shit sandwich that you yourself served, doesn't it Whedon?
“Every breed of feminism is attacking every other breed, and every subsection of liberalism is always busy attacking another subsection of liberalism, because god forbid they should all band together and actually fight for the cause,” Whedon said.

[link]

Sucks to have to eat the same shit sandwich that you yourself served, doesn't it Whedon?
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-4
11:33AM on 05/07/2015

You know.....

I'd feel bad for Joss (he obviously is a hardcore Liberal who considers himself pro-women) if it wasn't for the fact that he's reaping what he sowed. For years he's been outspoken about women and attacking anyone who had an opinion different than the one he considered correct (even if it was a Conservative woman). So now the same bottom-feeding professional victims he helped lead are attacking him. So no, I don't feel sorry for him. I feel sorry for women who consider themselves "feminists"
I'd feel bad for Joss (he obviously is a hardcore Liberal who considers himself pro-women) if it wasn't for the fact that he's reaping what he sowed. For years he's been outspoken about women and attacking anyone who had an opinion different than the one he considered correct (even if it was a Conservative woman). So now the same bottom-feeding professional victims he helped lead are attacking him. So no, I don't feel sorry for him. I feel sorry for women who consider themselves "feminists" but are attacked because they have the "incorrect" political ideology, and minorities who are attacked as "not legitimate" because of their politics.

I'm so tired of the whiny idiots this generation has created. Last week the news stories were all about colleges stifling free speech because they claimed it was "micro-aggressions" that made some of them feel bad.
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9:21AM on 05/07/2015

Where are these purported death threats?

I'm not saying they don't exist. But I keep reading people taking about them, without actually seeing the threats first hand. Where can I read them?
I'm not saying they don't exist. But I keep reading people taking about them, without actually seeing the threats first hand. Where can I read them?
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12:01AM on 05/07/2015
There are many claiming Whedon had intended to leave Twitter all along and that the death threats had nothing to do with it (unlikely to say the least), removing responsibility from the vitriolic people who chased him away. I loved the character development in the film. By giving Black Widow control over the Hulk, she becomes one of the most powerful members of the team. She isn't a god, she doesn't have a giant suit of armour, but she can walk up and face the Hulk with no problem and then talk
There are many claiming Whedon had intended to leave Twitter all along and that the death threats had nothing to do with it (unlikely to say the least), removing responsibility from the vitriolic people who chased him away. I loved the character development in the film. By giving Black Widow control over the Hulk, she becomes one of the most powerful members of the team. She isn't a god, she doesn't have a giant suit of armour, but she can walk up and face the Hulk with no problem and then talk him down.
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11:37PM on 05/06/2015
Yah these professional victims are getting really old. 99 percent of them are privledged white chicks and they can't see the hypocrisy of their own actions. Move to Saudi Arabia then complain see how long you last.
Yah these professional victims are getting really old. 99 percent of them are privledged white chicks and they can't see the hypocrisy of their own actions. Move to Saudi Arabia then complain see how long you last.
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+4
10:26PM on 05/06/2015

the Black Widow Lullaby thing made so much sense though...

one of the biggest complaints i heard in Avengers 1 was "what does Black Widow bring to the team? guns? really?".. . by incorporating the Lullaby, she has another "power" in that she can control the Hulk. it gives her more purpose.
one of the biggest complaints i heard in Avengers 1 was "what does Black Widow bring to the team? guns? really?".. . by incorporating the Lullaby, she has another "power" in that she can control the Hulk. it gives her more purpose.
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11:50PM on 05/06/2015
Not to mention nobody seems to recall the fact that Scarlett was pregnant during filming of this. During the beginning of filming they shot as many action scenes with her as they could. However by the time filming was done she said she was 8 months pregnant. I read one interview where they said they adjusted her scenes to accommodate her, giving her a little less action and shooting her upper torso only a lot. So I would wager her getting captured, her behind the bar, etc all played into that
Not to mention nobody seems to recall the fact that Scarlett was pregnant during filming of this. During the beginning of filming they shot as many action scenes with her as they could. However by the time filming was done she said she was 8 months pregnant. I read one interview where they said they adjusted her scenes to accommodate her, giving her a little less action and shooting her upper torso only a lot. So I would wager her getting captured, her behind the bar, etc all played into that to take the focus off her while she couldn't do as much action.
9:46AM on 05/07/2015
I actually thought the Lullaby was one of the more beautiful scenes in the film.
I actually thought the Lullaby was one of the more beautiful scenes in the film.
10:20PM on 05/06/2015

Fuck SJW's, Fuck Feminists, and Fuck whiny keyboard warriors.

Yup I said it. Nothing can exist in society now without people bashing it and trying to tear down anyone that accomplishes anything. People are so sad at their pathetic little lives that they think in order to make meaning of it they have to join campaigns to tear down others. Feminism isn't what feminism used to be. The voice of feminism now is a voice of misandry and nothing more. Its not about equality anymore its about tearing down men and anything that doesn't have a woman front and center
Yup I said it. Nothing can exist in society now without people bashing it and trying to tear down anyone that accomplishes anything. People are so sad at their pathetic little lives that they think in order to make meaning of it they have to join campaigns to tear down others. Feminism isn't what feminism used to be. The voice of feminism now is a voice of misandry and nothing more. Its not about equality anymore its about tearing down men and anything that doesn't have a woman front and center in the role they want. The problem is not all women agree what that is so no matter what role a woman is portrayed in, it gets torn to shit. Fuck a feminist, I'm an equalitist. I do believe man woman white black whatever, everyone should be equal. But part of being equal is everyone can be anything. That means Widow can, gasp, be human and have feelings for someone or feel sad that she can't have a baby. I like having a voice on the internet but I'd seriously consider giving it up if it took it away from every whiny sjw in the world at the same time.
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9:18AM on 05/07/2015
I can't agree with you more.

There's women in the Middle East who get stoned to death for daring to drive a car, and who receive forcible clitorectomies, and domestic suburbanite hipster doofii are wringing their hands over representation in a comic book movie?

Get a frickin' grip.
I can't agree with you more.

There's women in the Middle East who get stoned to death for daring to drive a car, and who receive forcible clitorectomies, and domestic suburbanite hipster doofii are wringing their hands over representation in a comic book movie?

Get a frickin' grip.
9:20AM on 05/07/2015
Feminism is NOT about misandry, it's about equality. The problem is a few loud jerks making the rest of us look bad =/
Feminism is NOT about misandry, it's about equality. The problem is a few loud jerks making the rest of us look bad =/
9:14PM on 05/06/2015

Sexism this, misogyny that, bla bla bla

Younger generations have been bred to be so hyper sensitive over every slight and minutiae real or perceived, that we're fast approaching the time when the only films we'll be able to view without anyone stomping their feet and flapping their arms like a toddler is a blank white screen for 2 hours.

Maybe if these idiots had bills to pay and jobs to go to, they wouldn't be wringing their hands over comic book movies. Sheesh.

Frankly I found it gratifying to see Whedon on the receiving end
Younger generations have been bred to be so hyper sensitive over every slight and minutiae real or perceived, that we're fast approaching the time when the only films we'll be able to view without anyone stomping their feet and flapping their arms like a toddler is a blank white screen for 2 hours.

Maybe if these idiots had bills to pay and jobs to go to, they wouldn't be wringing their hands over comic book movies. Sheesh.

Frankly I found it gratifying to see Whedon on the receiving end of the B.S. he dished out.
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11:36AM on 05/07/2015
I couldn't agree more. It was just two weeks ago he was attacking another film-maker publicly for being "anti-woman" based on his view of women. Personally I find the whole thing pretty funny.
I couldn't agree more. It was just two weeks ago he was attacking another film-maker publicly for being "anti-woman" based on his view of women. Personally I find the whole thing pretty funny.
7:38PM on 05/06/2015

Ruffalo shouldn't even have to stand up for him.

I respect Mark Ruffalo for speaking on his friend's behalf, but let's face it, it's unneeded. Joss Whedon's ENTIRE CAREER speaks to his feelings about feminism and strong female characters. Buffy would beat that Feminazi's ass. Mysogynistic... FFS that article blew up my bullshit detector.
I respect Mark Ruffalo for speaking on his friend's behalf, but let's face it, it's unneeded. Joss Whedon's ENTIRE CAREER speaks to his feelings about feminism and strong female characters. Buffy would beat that Feminazi's ass. Mysogynistic... FFS that article blew up my bullshit detector.
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+3
7:34PM on 05/06/2015
What's the issue, I don't understand, what are they complaining about?
What's the issue, I don't understand, what are they complaining about?
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11:35PM on 05/06/2015
Not every character was a woman destroying everything men create. That's it basically.
Not every character was a woman destroying everything men create. That's it basically.
12:05AM on 05/07/2015
Black Widow talks about being sterilised as part of her training and indoctrination, then tells Banner "who's the monster now?" Many misinterpreted this as saying that being sterile makes her a monster, when in context, it's about how Natasha being moulded by the Russian spy training program was akin to Banner being experimented on with gamma radiation.
Black Widow talks about being sterilised as part of her training and indoctrination, then tells Banner "who's the monster now?" Many misinterpreted this as saying that being sterile makes her a monster, when in context, it's about how Natasha being moulded by the Russian spy training program was akin to Banner being experimented on with gamma radiation.
9:45AM on 05/07/2015
That's what's so messed up. People read "She is a monster cause she can't have kids" when the rest of the world watched the movie and saw how she became an assassin (monster if you will) and immediately understood that she calls her being bred to kill as the monster side of her. It has NOTHING to do with not being able to have babies.
That's what's so messed up. People read "She is a monster cause she can't have kids" when the rest of the world watched the movie and saw how she became an assassin (monster if you will) and immediately understood that she calls her being bred to kill as the monster side of her. It has NOTHING to do with not being able to have babies.
5:37PM on 05/09/2015
Oh I see. Funny thing is I took that line as a mix of both sides. She was a monster because of all of it, murderer AND the robbed her if her ability to make children. Even if it was solely the latter, this is a reach! RE-FUCKING-LAX people, Jesus.
Oh I see. Funny thing is I took that line as a mix of both sides. She was a monster because of all of it, murderer AND the robbed her if her ability to make children. Even if it was solely the latter, this is a reach! RE-FUCKING-LAX people, Jesus.
+3
7:01PM on 05/06/2015
Ruffalo is a stand up guy.
Ruffalo is a stand up guy.
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6:21PM on 05/06/2015
Good for Ruffalo for defendin Whedon. I finally saw Age of Ultron last night and it was fucking awesome. As good or better than the first imo. I saw nothing sexist or week about Black Widow, shes human for christs sakes, god forbid humans have emotions. Goddamn butthurt libtards amd feminazis will complain about anything. Especially something that isnt there!
Good for Ruffalo for defendin Whedon. I finally saw Age of Ultron last night and it was fucking awesome. As good or better than the first imo. I saw nothing sexist or week about Black Widow, shes human for christs sakes, god forbid humans have emotions. Goddamn butthurt libtards amd feminazis will complain about anything. Especially something that isnt there!
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6:19PM on 05/06/2015
He says pretty much what I have been saying. Thousands of movies where the big man saves the damsel because he loves her and this shows his sensitive side etc, this is okay. The moment a strong female finds love, HOW DARE SHE! That's the sexism right there. To not allow her to be a hero AND a woman is absolutely ridiculous. I loved that storyline with her and banner and didn't think her weaker for it. The people who are outraged need to let go of this fairy tale that strong=cold and she cannot
He says pretty much what I have been saying. Thousands of movies where the big man saves the damsel because he loves her and this shows his sensitive side etc, this is okay. The moment a strong female finds love, HOW DARE SHE! That's the sexism right there. To not allow her to be a hero AND a woman is absolutely ridiculous. I loved that storyline with her and banner and didn't think her weaker for it. The people who are outraged need to let go of this fairy tale that strong=cold and she cannot have more substance than that. If anything, AOU shows more of who she is and makes her better. For a human (along with Hawkeye) in a mostly super-hero environment, she holds her own.
Also, should it not be sexist that Hawkeye has a family? I mean, he's the hero-type no different than Widow! Why is he not an issue? Why is it just fine and dandy that he has a soft side and a wife and kids but how dare Widow and Banner hook up?!
IT MAKES NO SENSE!! There was nothing wrong with her or weak about her.
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4:36PM on 05/06/2015
beautifully put Ruffy. But i think what you really meant was. That we live in a hyper sensitive society and everyone is now a victim. Maybe these dimwits should be directing their anger at societies where women REALLY are second class citizens, lets see who then gets the death threats?
beautifully put Ruffy. But i think what you really meant was. That we live in a hyper sensitive society and everyone is now a victim. Maybe these dimwits should be directing their anger at societies where women REALLY are second class citizens, lets see who then gets the death threats?
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11:39AM on 05/07/2015
Oh no, these same professional victims are ATTACKING people who criticize those societies. What's the story this week? That a group that hates Islamic radicals hosted a contest to draw a cartoon about a guy who is an admitted pedophile and murderer. For that outrage, people showed up and tried to murder dozens of innocent men and women. Now the media is attacking THE WOMAN who put on the contest because "she was asking for it."

We've officially reached the point where Liberals have
Oh no, these same professional victims are ATTACKING people who criticize those societies. What's the story this week? That a group that hates Islamic radicals hosted a contest to draw a cartoon about a guy who is an admitted pedophile and murderer. For that outrage, people showed up and tried to murder dozens of innocent men and women. Now the media is attacking THE WOMAN who put on the contest because "she was asking for it."

We've officially reached the point where Liberals have become the misogynists they hate.
4:08PM on 05/06/2015
What's misogyny or not nowadays seems to be completely dependant on who's making the accusation. For some its men who actively hate women, for others its a catch all for anything men do that the individual doesn't like. I think feminists, real feminists are suffering because of the actions of a few sorted groups that are very loud. A while back they got together with social justice fanatics and have let them drag the whole thing into the gutter ever since. I'm tired of this sexism witch
What's misogyny or not nowadays seems to be completely dependant on who's making the accusation. For some its men who actively hate women, for others its a catch all for anything men do that the individual doesn't like. I think feminists, real feminists are suffering because of the actions of a few sorted groups that are very loud. A while back they got together with social justice fanatics and have let them drag the whole thing into the gutter ever since. I'm tired of this sexism witch hunt currently so popular in media and print, its disgusting and detrimental to our society.
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3:39PM on 05/06/2015
Feminism now isn't real feminism. It now is all about power and demeaning men. And anyone who speaks against that is quickly labeled a misogynist who hates woman blah blah blah.
Feminism now isn't real feminism. It now is all about power and demeaning men. And anyone who speaks against that is quickly labeled a misogynist who hates woman blah blah blah.
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4:39PM on 05/06/2015
It is absolute lunacy.
It is absolute lunacy.
6:30PM on 05/06/2015
That's part of the problem. We have Millenials (or whatever this generation is) making everything around us worse. Feminism was designed to give women a voice and equality. Now if you hate men you're a feminist, which is 100% NOT the purpose of being a feminist. It was never designed to diminish men as lesser people, but to push women to equal status that they should be.
Saying a strong female hero can't find love when her male team members can is the very definition of sexism. This flat out
That's part of the problem. We have Millenials (or whatever this generation is) making everything around us worse. Feminism was designed to give women a voice and equality. Now if you hate men you're a feminist, which is 100% NOT the purpose of being a feminist. It was never designed to diminish men as lesser people, but to push women to equal status that they should be.
Saying a strong female hero can't find love when her male team members can is the very definition of sexism. This flat out says "pick one because you can't do both as a woman". Insane.
Bad apples keep ruining all the good things we have going.
7:26PM on 05/06/2015
Errm guys, I absolutely get where you are coming from with this because I think those targeting Whedon here are being absolutely ridiculous.... But be aware of what you are saying. It is now "all about power and demeaning men?" I'm sorry, but that is crap.

You are characterizing a massive group of people with one enormously broad stroke. A really terrible thing to do. I myself know dozens of people who would call themselves "feminists" and most of them are wonderfully kind people. I myself
Errm guys, I absolutely get where you are coming from with this because I think those targeting Whedon here are being absolutely ridiculous.... But be aware of what you are saying. It is now "all about power and demeaning men?" I'm sorry, but that is crap.

You are characterizing a massive group of people with one enormously broad stroke. A really terrible thing to do. I myself know dozens of people who would call themselves "feminists" and most of them are wonderfully kind people. I myself would count myself as a feminist because... I support equality for women. Which is the definition of what feminism is.

Absolutely, there are some outspoken nuts out there. I think some "feminists" go overboard with the man-bashing. Such as people who make someone like Whedon, who has written great female characters for years, out to be a sexist jerk. But they are the outspoken few I think, outspoken because this shit makes headlines in the first place. Bad apples right, GodMagnus.

I totally get why this particular story is pissing people off, but can we please be careful to not paint with such broad strokes? I would hope we can all strive to be true feminists (because, who is against equality for women?), be logical and avoid being the crazy, hypersensitive nuts like the people who drummed up this nonsense.

11:57PM on 05/06/2015
@gyro_44:

Well said. Feminism is, and always has been, about equality. And no matter how many whack-job extremists throw a hissy-fit on the internet, that definition's not going to change.
@gyro_44:

Well said. Feminism is, and always has been, about equality. And no matter how many whack-job extremists throw a hissy-fit on the internet, that definition's not going to change.
3:13PM on 05/06/2015
I think he nailed it. Because there's very few female superheroes onscreen right now people are going to attack anything they don't agree with. We've seen black widow establish friendships and relations with Tony stark (IM2) Hawkeye (Avengers) and cap (WS). Why can't she have a romantic interest in her fourth appearance. The movie explained really well why she was attracted to banner and it was set up in the first avengers. All that being said the people attacking him on twitter are trolls
I think he nailed it. Because there's very few female superheroes onscreen right now people are going to attack anything they don't agree with. We've seen black widow establish friendships and relations with Tony stark (IM2) Hawkeye (Avengers) and cap (WS). Why can't she have a romantic interest in her fourth appearance. The movie explained really well why she was attracted to banner and it was set up in the first avengers. All that being said the people attacking him on twitter are trolls who are either being dicks for the sake of it or because they're too dumb to know what they're talking about.
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3:11PM on 05/06/2015
I think he nailed it. Because there's very few female superheroes onscreen right now people are going to attack anything they don't agree with. We've seen black widow establish friendships and relations with Tony stark (IM2) Hawkeye (Avengers) and cap (WS). Why can't she have a romantic interest in her fourth appearance. The movie explained really well why she was attracted to banner and it was set up in the first avengers. All that being said the people attacking him on twitter are trolls
I think he nailed it. Because there's very few female superheroes onscreen right now people are going to attack anything they don't agree with. We've seen black widow establish friendships and relations with Tony stark (IM2) Hawkeye (Avengers) and cap (WS). Why can't she have a romantic interest in her fourth appearance. The movie explained really well why she was attracted to banner and it was set up in the first avengers. All that being said the people attacking him on twitter are trolls who are either being dicks for the sake of it or because they're too dumb to know what they're talking about.
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+7
3:04PM on 05/06/2015

Good for you, Ruffalo.

All this hubbub is complete and utter BS. Eff the haters.
All this hubbub is complete and utter BS. Eff the haters.
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2:44PM on 05/06/2015

Feminists didn't go after Joss Whedon, crazy unrealistic assholes did.

It's the same thing with like Libertarians, only a very small minority are crazy conspiracy-theorists, but there you go.
I absolutely identify as feminist, and I have absolutely no problem with Black Widow & Banner having a thing (and from what I hear, an overwhelming amount of people didn't either).
Let characters have a thing.
Also, Black Widow being sterile was in the books if I'm not mistaken, not just some "ohh woe is me, I can't have children and fulfill my duty as all women should".
It's the same thing with like Libertarians, only a very small minority are crazy conspiracy-theorists, but there you go.
I absolutely identify as feminist, and I have absolutely no problem with Black Widow & Banner having a thing (and from what I hear, an overwhelming amount of people didn't either).
Let characters have a thing.
Also, Black Widow being sterile was in the books if I'm not mistaken, not just some "ohh woe is me, I can't have children and fulfill my duty as all women should".
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3:03PM on 05/06/2015
Whether it was in the books or not, I really don't think it came across as an, "I'm a monster because I can't have kids and be a mother because that's what all women need to want" type of thing... however, I CAN see how it might have come across that way, as the whole thing was rather glossed over and easy to misinterpret. And yeah, in that case, it does seem awfully misogynistic. But it's okay to be a feminist, and be mad about something, without being a sociopathic bully.

I've found
Whether it was in the books or not, I really don't think it came across as an, "I'm a monster because I can't have kids and be a mother because that's what all women need to want" type of thing... however, I CAN see how it might have come across that way, as the whole thing was rather glossed over and easy to misinterpret. And yeah, in that case, it does seem awfully misogynistic. But it's okay to be a feminist, and be mad about something, without being a sociopathic bully.

I've found works to be disgustingly [link] or what-have-you, and I've somehow managed to refrain from attacking the creators personally; and I'm not exactly a paragon of self control. Smart feminists will have a discussion about what they see in AoU, whether they found it sexist or not.
11:09PM on 05/06/2015
To be fair, a man would feel the same way if somebody chopped his dick off: he would feel pretty much useless.
To be fair, a man would feel the same way if somebody chopped his dick off: he would feel pretty much useless.
+4
2:38PM on 05/06/2015
I still have absolutely no idea what people's arguments are or why Whedon is getting flack. If it's about misogyny, then these people are about as intelligent as a bag of rocks. Whedon has spent a career creating strong female characters. To accuse him of misogyny is confusing.
I still have absolutely no idea what people's arguments are or why Whedon is getting flack. If it's about misogyny, then these people are about as intelligent as a bag of rocks. Whedon has spent a career creating strong female characters. To accuse him of misogyny is confusing.
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2:42PM on 05/06/2015
To be fair, it's totally possible to craft Strong Female Characters and still be guilty of misogyny. Even occasional, latent misogyny. I'm not saying this is an example, just saying that the two are not inherently contradictory.
To be fair, it's totally possible to craft Strong Female Characters and still be guilty of misogyny. Even occasional, latent misogyny. I'm not saying this is an example, just saying that the two are not inherently contradictory.
12:02AM on 05/07/2015
Hey, Spielberg was accused of being anti-semitic after Munich. Let that one sink in.
Hey, Spielberg was accused of being anti-semitic after Munich. Let that one sink in.
2:35PM on 05/06/2015
What I'm upset about isn't that people are upset about what they perceive as misogyny--that's a good thing. But their reaction to being upset is uncalled for, and downright inhuman. Everyone who attacks Joss Whedon, or any creator, as a person instead of attacking the work, is a disgrace.

Being a total douche gets you nowhere. And it gets the movement nowhere. Mark Ruffalo is right--a dialogue, a debate, that's important. Bullying someone off the internet just makes everyone look like
What I'm upset about isn't that people are upset about what they perceive as misogyny--that's a good thing. But their reaction to being upset is uncalled for, and downright inhuman. Everyone who attacks Joss Whedon, or any creator, as a person instead of attacking the work, is a disgrace.

Being a total douche gets you nowhere. And it gets the movement nowhere. Mark Ruffalo is right--a dialogue, a debate, that's important. Bullying someone off the internet just makes everyone look like bastards.
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2:39PM on 05/06/2015
Well said.
Well said.
+3
2:29PM on 05/06/2015
Well now I want a relationships with Banner! Seriously though, anyone complaining about the lack feminism in the movie just doesn't understand feminism. Feminism is about equality. Is it ok for all the male heroes to have love interests, but the female heroes can't? Did Black Widow kick any less ass in the movie because of it? Did she not, at one point, literally kick her love interest into a big, giant hole? And for those saying she was overtly sexual with Banner, of course she friggin' was,
Well now I want a relationships with Banner! Seriously though, anyone complaining about the lack feminism in the movie just doesn't understand feminism. Feminism is about equality. Is it ok for all the male heroes to have love interests, but the female heroes can't? Did Black Widow kick any less ass in the movie because of it? Did she not, at one point, literally kick her love interest into a big, giant hole? And for those saying she was overtly sexual with Banner, of course she friggin' was, she's professionally seductive, she has no idea how to actually open up to someone, her seduction technique has always been 'forceful' for professional purposes, she was the same with Stark in IM2 and Cap in Winter Soldier. It's what makes her break down with Banner in the bedroom all the more heartbreaking, she's wounded.

People are stupid.
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2:25PM on 05/06/2015
The relationship between the two in Age of Ultron was one of the best parts in the movie and I would have no problem if they carried the Bruce and Natasha relationship further into the storyline into the MCU. Out of all of the flirting that Natasha has done, hers with Banner is my personal favorite.

But I would like to see Betty Ross be referenced again somewhere down the line. It would be nice to have a little more insight into at least Banner's universe that was established in Incredible
The relationship between the two in Age of Ultron was one of the best parts in the movie and I would have no problem if they carried the Bruce and Natasha relationship further into the storyline into the MCU. Out of all of the flirting that Natasha has done, hers with Banner is my personal favorite.

But I would like to see Betty Ross be referenced again somewhere down the line. It would be nice to have a little more insight into at least Banner's universe that was established in Incredible Hulk.
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3:06PM on 05/06/2015
double post, sorry.
double post, sorry.
3:06PM on 05/06/2015
Thank you for mentioning Betty Ross! Seriously, I was scratching my head today while watching the movie about absolutely no mentioning or referencing of Betty as his ex. There should've at least be nod to his previous relationship while talking to Natasha... And speaking of, I find it quite puzzling that in the Avengers movies there were all the references to Stark's girlfriend and Rodie or Thor's girlfriend and Selvig or Cap's entire past, but so far not a peep about the people from Banner's
Thank you for mentioning Betty Ross! Seriously, I was scratching my head today while watching the movie about absolutely no mentioning or referencing of Betty as his ex. There should've at least be nod to his previous relationship while talking to Natasha... And speaking of, I find it quite puzzling that in the Avengers movies there were all the references to Stark's girlfriend and Rodie or Thor's girlfriend and Selvig or Cap's entire past, but so far not a peep about the people from Banner's past life (a la The Incredible Hulk) at all. Why?
3:14PM on 05/06/2015
Exactly. It would be nice if they referenced Bruce's past now and again.
Exactly. It would be nice if they referenced Bruce's past now and again.
7:37PM on 05/06/2015
I know, zero mention of Betty, that I can remember. Nothing since the Incredible Hulk I believe.
I know, zero mention of Betty, that I can remember. Nothing since the Incredible Hulk I believe.
12:03AM on 05/07/2015
It seems part of Marvel Studios' effort to retcon The Incredible Hulk away. There was a nod to Betty in the form of Whedon naming the Hulkbuster suit "Veronica" though.
It seems part of Marvel Studios' effort to retcon The Incredible Hulk away. There was a nod to Betty in the form of Whedon naming the Hulkbuster suit "Veronica" though.
2:24PM on 05/06/2015
Whedon has shown the world his kryptonite weakness. As someone who feels himself sensitive to these issues, to be attacked for it is super hurtful to him. It totally sucks to be a liberal. Liberals feats on one another and are cruel, there's almost this competition among them to be the most sensitive. Whedon is super talented, but like most artists and people in that industry super thin skinned. This is NOT really about him being a misogynist, it is about his comments regarding Jurassic
Whedon has shown the world his kryptonite weakness. As someone who feels himself sensitive to these issues, to be attacked for it is super hurtful to him. It totally sucks to be a liberal. Liberals feats on one another and are cruel, there's almost this competition among them to be the most sensitive. Whedon is super talented, but like most artists and people in that industry super thin skinned. This is NOT really about him being a misogynist, it is about his comments regarding Jurassic World. He needed to not make enemies with a careless remark. I saw Age of Ultron. It was NOT misogynist.
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3:13PM on 05/06/2015
Liberals feats?
Liberals feats?
6:49PM on 05/06/2015
Why does this always have to be about liberals?
Why does this always have to be about liberals?
2:12PM on 05/06/2015
He shouldn't have so prematurely talked shit about the characters in Jurassic Park based on one scene from the trailer. Makes him seem like a pompous douche bag and in doing so he paints a target on himself.
He shouldn't have so prematurely talked shit about the characters in Jurassic Park based on one scene from the trailer. Makes him seem like a pompous douche bag and in doing so he paints a target on himself.
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2:18PM on 05/06/2015
Well first of all he was speaking specifically about the potrayal in one clip, not a comment on the as-yet-unseen movie as a whole, and secondly he apologised for it after realising he's now this big famous movie guy who can't simply have a movie fans opinion on one clip without it perhaps coming across unprofessional, or being scrutinised for every word he says by a rabid team of online dickheads.

So..yea
Well first of all he was speaking specifically about the potrayal in one clip, not a comment on the as-yet-unseen movie as a whole, and secondly he apologised for it after realising he's now this big famous movie guy who can't simply have a movie fans opinion on one clip without it perhaps coming across unprofessional, or being scrutinised for every word he says by a rabid team of online dickheads.

So..yea
5:52PM on 05/06/2015
It did come across as unprofessional, no doubt. I'm sort of surprised that the backlash caught him off guard, and he was unaware of his celebrity, but better late than never. Welcome to the inter-web, Mr. Whedon.
It did come across as unprofessional, no doubt. I'm sort of surprised that the backlash caught him off guard, and he was unaware of his celebrity, but better late than never. Welcome to the inter-web, Mr. Whedon.
12:06AM on 05/07/2015
How dare someone express an opinion on Twitter!
How dare someone express an opinion on Twitter!
2:08PM on 05/06/2015
This easily one of the stupidest fucking situations I have ever read about. Amazing how out there some people are.
This easily one of the stupidest fucking situations I have ever read about. Amazing how out there some people are.
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2:04PM on 05/06/2015

Good For Ruffalo

I actually enjoyed the story between Bruce and Natasha. They are two characters that were made in to something else which they did not have any control of. Those things they were made in to have caused a lot of damage and harm to others. So what they do with The Avengers is their way to atone for the damage and hurt they have caused. It makes sense that they would be drawn to one another. Good for Ruffalo for standing by his film and his director.
I actually enjoyed the story between Bruce and Natasha. They are two characters that were made in to something else which they did not have any control of. Those things they were made in to have caused a lot of damage and harm to others. So what they do with The Avengers is their way to atone for the damage and hurt they have caused. It makes sense that they would be drawn to one another. Good for Ruffalo for standing by his film and his director.
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1:56PM on 05/06/2015
I second DesmondHume's comment.
I second DesmondHume's comment.
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1:52PM on 05/06/2015

They're relationship won't fly anyway due...

to the fact that Banner can't have sex!
It was established in "The Incredible Hulk" (2008) that he can't afford to get too excited or "The Big Guy" enters the picture and I doubt Natasha is woman enough to take him on!
to the fact that Banner can't have sex!
It was established in "The Incredible Hulk" (2008) that he can't afford to get too excited or "The Big Guy" enters the picture and I doubt Natasha is woman enough to take him on!
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1:52PM on 05/06/2015
*Their...
*Their...
2:20PM on 05/06/2015
Yeah I believe that was reiterated in AoU when he said he physically cannot make children
Yeah I believe that was reiterated in AoU when he said he physically cannot make children
2:50PM on 05/06/2015
it's a good thing Hulk is more into fighting than fucking
it's a good thing Hulk is more into fighting than fucking
3:18PM on 05/06/2015
If he did have sex it would give new meaning to HULK SMASH!
If he did have sex it would give new meaning to HULK SMASH!
4:01PM on 05/06/2015
more like Hulk Rip. ouch.
more like Hulk Rip. ouch.
9:30PM on 05/06/2015
Wait, what? 'He can't afford to get too excited'? Does that means whenever it's 'Code Green' all he has to do is jerk himself off in the Quinjet? Ew.
Wait, what? 'He can't afford to get too excited'? Does that means whenever it's 'Code Green' all he has to do is jerk himself off in the Quinjet? Ew.
1:40PM on 05/06/2015
Well said. Good for him.
Well said. Good for him.
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