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Shane Black defends that controversial twist in Iron Man 3

May. 15, 2013by:

Judging by the box office totals, pretty much everyone has seen IRON MAN 3 and is aware of the big twist that has divided audiences. I will refrain from naming it here in the event that you are the one person who has not seen the movie yet. This is your last chance to turn around before we begin discussing events from the movie. Last time I will ask. Seriously. Okay, here we go.

As many of you have voiced in talk backs and Movie Fan Central your displeasure at how the Mandarin was portrayed in IRON MAN 3. Some call it a cheap trick to have the character serve as nothing more than a device to further the Extremis plotline while completely diminishing the presence of Iron Man's biggest comic book foe. But, Shane Black has taken the defensive and explained to Screen Rant why re-imagining the character worked.

I would say that we struggled to find a way to present a mythic terrorist that had something about him that registered after the movies over as having been a unique take, or a clever idea, or a way to say something of use. And what was of use about the Mandarins portrayal in this movie, to me, is that it offers up a way that you can sort of show how people are complicit in being frightened. They buy into things in the way that the audience for this movie buys into it. And hopefully, by the end youre like, Yeah, we were really frightened of the Mandarin, but in the end he really wasnt that bad after all. In fact, the whole thing was just a product of this anonymous, behind-the-scenes guy. I think thats a message thats more interesting for the modern world because I think theres a lot of behind-the-scenes, a lot of fear, thats generated toward very available and obvious targets, which could perhaps be directed more intelligently at whats behind them.

This is going to be a hot button topic this summer and throughout Phase Two. IRON MAN 3 has been critically successful but fans have voiced their frustration at The Mandarin's misrepresentation in the marketing for the movie. I think it was a major misuse of the character but I understand what Shane Black was going for. Hopefully as time passes many will be able to look past the holes in IRON MAN 3 and appreciate it for all of the good stuff it did have in it.

Source: ScreenRant

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-3
8:11AM on 05/17/2013
I actually liked what they did and I immediately got why they did it. I was underwhlemed for other reasons, but this actually got a decent laugh out of me.
I actually liked what they did and I immediately got why they did it. I was underwhlemed for other reasons, but this actually got a decent laugh out of me.
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9:52AM on 05/17/2013
You don't see a problem with the priamry villain's sole purpose is to get a decent laugh out of you? I LIKED the film for its laughs, particularly between Tony and Harley. There was a lot to like about Iron man 3 but the Mandarin thing was a huge misplay that screwed with the drama of Iron Man. Is Iron man a hero?
You don't see a problem with the priamry villain's sole purpose is to get a decent laugh out of you? I LIKED the film for its laughs, particularly between Tony and Harley. There was a lot to like about Iron man 3 but the Mandarin thing was a huge misplay that screwed with the drama of Iron Man. Is Iron man a hero?
7:26PM on 05/18/2013
False. Killian was the primary villain. He is the one who got the second most screen-time and character development after Tony Stark.
False. Killian was the primary villain. He is the one who got the second most screen-time and character development after Tony Stark.
+15
5:39PM on 05/16/2013
I wonder what those defending the twist would have said if in THE DARK KNIGHT it turned out Heath Ledger's character was not really the Joker but just a buffoonish actor hired by Sal Maroni to pretend to be someone menacing?
I wonder what those defending the twist would have said if in THE DARK KNIGHT it turned out Heath Ledger's character was not really the Joker but just a buffoonish actor hired by Sal Maroni to pretend to be someone menacing?
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7:31PM on 05/18/2013
Would not have cared if Maroni was given more character development and the Joker was a smaller part of the film, like Killian and Mandarin in Iron Man 3.

Still a terrible analogy, since the Joker is one of the most interesting characters in comics and no one cares about the Mandarin.
Would not have cared if Maroni was given more character development and the Joker was a smaller part of the film, like Killian and Mandarin in Iron Man 3.

Still a terrible analogy, since the Joker is one of the most interesting characters in comics and no one cares about the Mandarin.
-7
2:13PM on 05/16/2013

Movies don't always follow books.

Gotta be honest, the Mandarin was kind of lame and a letdown until he was unveiled as the out of work actor, which made the film and the role more interesting. Honestly, when have movies adapted from books completely followed the book? The same can go for comic books as it does with novels. I agree with Black on this one.
Gotta be honest, the Mandarin was kind of lame and a letdown until he was unveiled as the out of work actor, which made the film and the role more interesting. Honestly, when have movies adapted from books completely followed the book? The same can go for comic books as it does with novels. I agree with Black on this one.
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1:31PM on 05/16/2013

Intent

The intent of the director/filmmaker was to tell the audience that the villains of the world aren't the real villains, that behind them are smiling devious corporate types, who are unimaginably trite, petty and evil. The reason this DOESN'T work in the iron man mythos is that Tony Stark WAS that smiling arrogant cartoonish villainous corporate type, who only fund heroic redemption by near death and an epiphany. Making teh villain a puppet, and the puppet master a Tony Stark without a soul
The intent of the director/filmmaker was to tell the audience that the villains of the world aren't the real villains, that behind them are smiling devious corporate types, who are unimaginably trite, petty and evil. The reason this DOESN'T work in the iron man mythos is that Tony Stark WAS that smiling arrogant cartoonish villainous corporate type, who only fund heroic redemption by near death and an epiphany. Making teh villain a puppet, and the puppet master a Tony Stark without a soul undoes the irony of Iron Man. Back when iron man was created in the comic, he did NOT resonate with the Marvel audiences, because in the 1960's there was a STRONG left wing bent to comic book fans, they saw Tony Stark's character as representative of THE MAN, the rich white dude making a fortune selling arms for Vietnam war and whatnot. The recent re-imagining of Stark/Iron Man shows an introspective man. Obediah Stane represented the evil corporate type. Aldrich Killian represents the evil corporate type. But the Mandarin was always Tony's arch nemesis. He was the one enemy who made Iron Man a hero, the anti-anarchist. The choices made in Iron man 3 screwed with the whole mythos in a bad way. Regurgitating the class warfare borne in the 1960's and carried on today. It cause Tony to give up Iron man rather than accept himself as a hero.
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12:46AM on 05/17/2013
Finally someone who said it correctly.
Finally someone who said it correctly.
12:46AM on 05/17/2013
Finally someone who said it correctly.
Finally someone who said it correctly.
7:48PM on 05/18/2013
You don't pay attention well. Tony Stark was never the villainous corporate type. He was a scientist and a drunk who ignored/wasn't aware of the far-reaching consequences of his company's actions. He didn't find heroic redemption because he was near death, he found it because seeing his weapons in the hands of terrorists and killing soldiers shocked him into action. If Tony was the villainous corporate type, he would be selling those weapons TO the terrorists.
You don't pay attention well. Tony Stark was never the villainous corporate type. He was a scientist and a drunk who ignored/wasn't aware of the far-reaching consequences of his company's actions. He didn't find heroic redemption because he was near death, he found it because seeing his weapons in the hands of terrorists and killing soldiers shocked him into action. If Tony was the villainous corporate type, he would be selling those weapons TO the terrorists.
12:15PM on 05/16/2013
I think that it would have been better if they didn't use so much humour when we discover who Ben Kingsley really is. They should have made it a bit more dramatic/theatrical. Like in 24 when you figure out that the person causing all the mayhem is actually a puppet.
I think that it would have been better if they didn't use so much humour when we discover who Ben Kingsley really is. They should have made it a bit more dramatic/theatrical. Like in 24 when you figure out that the person causing all the mayhem is actually a puppet.
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10:31AM on 05/16/2013
I agree with what you said. I didn't like what happened, but understood what Black intended. The reason I didn't like the movie in general is because it felt as if all three films had so-so endings. The first one was great setting up for the sequels, but then the sequel ended it with a crappy Whiplash fight, and 3 felt rushed. Overall, I just feel that Ironman worked because Robert Downey Jr. made it work. The action was okay, the character interactions and humor was what the Ironman trilogy
I agree with what you said. I didn't like what happened, but understood what Black intended. The reason I didn't like the movie in general is because it felt as if all three films had so-so endings. The first one was great setting up for the sequels, but then the sequel ended it with a crappy Whiplash fight, and 3 felt rushed. Overall, I just feel that Ironman worked because Robert Downey Jr. made it work. The action was okay, the character interactions and humor was what the Ironman trilogy was for me.
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9:33AM on 05/16/2013
That's not a defence, it's a mealy-mouthed apology.
That's not a defence, it's a mealy-mouthed apology.
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+13
8:38AM on 05/16/2013
I feel sorry for the fans that were upset by the way the Mandarin was changed from the comics...... But I never read the comics so I FUCKING LOVED IT.
I feel sorry for the fans that were upset by the way the Mandarin was changed from the comics...... But I never read the comics so I FUCKING LOVED IT.
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+3
5:30AM on 05/16/2013
I'm totally mixed on this. I enjoyed the movie a lot and even found Kingsley performance very funny. That said I was very disappointed that the character he was portrayed at being during the trailers turned out to be what he turned out to be. To go in to a movie believing someone's going to be a total bad ass and then not have that delivered was a serious let down for me. They made the character so f-ing awesome in the trailer complete with bad ass character poster!
I'm totally mixed on this. I enjoyed the movie a lot and even found Kingsley performance very funny. That said I was very disappointed that the character he was portrayed at being during the trailers turned out to be what he turned out to be. To go in to a movie believing someone's going to be a total bad ass and then not have that delivered was a serious let down for me. They made the character so f-ing awesome in the trailer complete with bad ass character poster!
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5:17AM on 05/16/2013

Loved it!

Having the Mandarin do what Whiplash tried to do to the "hero" would have been terrible. I loved the villains in this film and the journey Stark had to take to figure out where he belongs within the superhero world. Besides, Ben Kingsley did better as his character rather than the terrible voice he was using as the mandarin. I wanted more when I saw the trailers. I was hoping for a better villain than what they were advertising and I got it.
Having the Mandarin do what Whiplash tried to do to the "hero" would have been terrible. I loved the villains in this film and the journey Stark had to take to figure out where he belongs within the superhero world. Besides, Ben Kingsley did better as his character rather than the terrible voice he was using as the mandarin. I wanted more when I saw the trailers. I was hoping for a better villain than what they were advertising and I got it.
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4:45AM on 05/16/2013

I was waiting for a new suit in the film ..but there wasnt any?

By new suit I mean the extremis suit...I was really hoping for the extremis armor or this one [link]s_armor#Bleeding_Edge_Armor
I got a feeling that we would see these in part 4 or avengers 2 maybe
By new suit I mean the extremis suit...I was really hoping for the extremis armor or this one [link]s_armor#Bleeding_Edge_Armor
I got a feeling that we would see these in part 4 or avengers 2 maybe
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4:45AM on 05/16/2013

I was waiting for a new suit in the film ..but there wasnt any?

By new suit I mean the extremis suit...I was really hoping for the extremis armor or this one [link]s_armor#Bleeding_Edge_Armor
I got a feeling that we would see these in part 4 or avengers 2 maybe
By new suit I mean the extremis suit...I was really hoping for the extremis armor or this one [link]s_armor#Bleeding_Edge_Armor
I got a feeling that we would see these in part 4 or avengers 2 maybe
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4:02AM on 05/16/2013

at this point no one will read this but

i have to say im all for the twist. first, the Mandarin as portrayed in the comics would have taken a shit all over the feel of the Iron Man films. these movies are all about Tony Stark and his struggles with himself and the technology he creates. people are bellyaching that they were let down by the twist, but having a showdown with a magic terrorist would have been an even bigger departure from the 300+ minutes of Iron Man film before it. this made sense. and no one seems to mention that Guy
i have to say im all for the twist. first, the Mandarin as portrayed in the comics would have taken a shit all over the feel of the Iron Man films. these movies are all about Tony Stark and his struggles with himself and the technology he creates. people are bellyaching that they were let down by the twist, but having a showdown with a magic terrorist would have been an even bigger departure from the 300+ minutes of Iron Man film before it. this made sense. and no one seems to mention that Guy Pearce was a bad ass villain in his own right. thats what did it for me. for a second i was bummed, but the finale was honestly better than the ending of 2 by miles and made more sense than the ending of 1, once you consider Stane being almost better at piloting a suit he never put on than Stark. i think this will take time but if you feel sore about it, remove the Mandarin twist entirely and ask yourself if its still such a "bad" movie. plus, its not like Kingsley's Mandarin cant be based on a real person. it doesnt take a lot of writing skill to toss that in.
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2:59AM on 05/16/2013

love all the negativity.

The twist was a cheap, lazy attempt to have a cool twist.
It ended up feeling forced and rushed.

Maybe if guy Pearce hadn't shouted "IM THE MANDARIN" two minutes before the end id have accepted it more.

This was just an all round poor movie.
The twist was a cheap, lazy attempt to have a cool twist.
It ended up feeling forced and rushed.

Maybe if guy Pearce hadn't shouted "IM THE MANDARIN" two minutes before the end id have accepted it more.

This was just an all round poor movie.
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7:31AM on 05/16/2013
Exactly right
Exactly right
2:12AM on 05/16/2013

Asain sterotype really ?

To everyone saying this was a goos choice and the mandarin was racist i say what ? I mean sure if you go with the old fu manchu sporting mandarin yeah but this [link] is what they should have went went much less offensive and a lot more awesome. The marketing kinda let me down but overall the movie was a good popcorn flick i just wish they hadn`t used the mandarin as a joke . hell even a hint at him being something more as he was being carted off to jail would have sufficed
To everyone saying this was a goos choice and the mandarin was racist i say what ? I mean sure if you go with the old fu manchu sporting mandarin yeah but this [link] is what they should have went went much less offensive and a lot more awesome. The marketing kinda let me down but overall the movie was a good popcorn flick i just wish they hadn`t used the mandarin as a joke . hell even a hint at him being something more as he was being carted off to jail would have sufficed
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1:30AM on 05/16/2013
The twist didn't bother. It's how rediculous Ben Kingsley was after. I couldn't believe this guy could act that menacing and be such an idiot. Ole ole ole !
The twist didn't bother. It's how rediculous Ben Kingsley was after. I couldn't believe this guy could act that menacing and be such an idiot. Ole ole ole !
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1:10AM on 05/16/2013

The Mandarin was in the first flick

Surprised nobody has mentioned that. Remember the leader of the terrorist who first captured Tony? He had a big odd looking ring and mentioned it belonged to someone else and that there were nine others. Ole Shane fubared that one up real good! Further more why in the blue hell Shane think it was cool to destroy all the armors and remove Tony's arc generator, wasn't that the only thing keeping the shrapnel in his chest from killing him because it couldn't be surgically removed even with the
Surprised nobody has mentioned that. Remember the leader of the terrorist who first captured Tony? He had a big odd looking ring and mentioned it belonged to someone else and that there were nine others. Ole Shane fubared that one up real good! Further more why in the blue hell Shane think it was cool to destroy all the armors and remove Tony's arc generator, wasn't that the only thing keeping the shrapnel in his chest from killing him because it couldn't be surgically removed even with the most advanced medical techiques? Blacks a total dipshit... The whole iron franchise is going to need a reboot or ingnore part 3 to carry on after Shanes silliness and lazy script. Really given the events of part three how can Tony be in Avengers 2? Whedon outta kick the dog shit outta Black on pay per view!
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2:59AM on 05/16/2013
That wasn't the Mandarin. That guy was a member of the Ten Rings AND he was killed off by Obidiah Stane. That guy never mentioned anything about nine other rings either.
That wasn't the Mandarin. That guy was a member of the Ten Rings AND he was killed off by Obidiah Stane. That guy never mentioned anything about nine other rings either.
12:36AM on 05/16/2013
1
1
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+14
12:08AM on 05/16/2013
we allowed The Mandarin to be the face of evil much like how we allow Iron Man to be the face of good, but really we never consider the person in the background pulling the strings. Much like the Iron Man suit, the Mandarin was merely a tool or a vehicle . we center ourselves on the hammer and not the hand that holds it. The movies main theme was "does the suit make the man or does the man make the suit". Iron Man 3 was really more a Tony Stark movie to begin with. The Mandarin character was
we allowed The Mandarin to be the face of evil much like how we allow Iron Man to be the face of good, but really we never consider the person in the background pulling the strings. Much like the Iron Man suit, the Mandarin was merely a tool or a vehicle . we center ourselves on the hammer and not the hand that holds it. The movies main theme was "does the suit make the man or does the man make the suit". Iron Man 3 was really more a Tony Stark movie to begin with. The Mandarin character was presented similar to that of Iron Man and that both are just suits and images for the public eye, but something greater and deeper becomes apparent.
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12:07AM on 05/16/2013
we allowed The Mandarin to be the face of evil much like how we allow Iron Man to be the face of good, but really we never consider the person in the background pulling the strings. Much like the Iron Man suit, the Mandarin was merely a tool or a vehicle . we center ourselves on the hammer and not the hand that holds it. The movies main theme was "does the suit make the man or does the man make the suit". Iron Man 3 was really more a Tony Stark movie to begin with. The Mandarin character was
we allowed The Mandarin to be the face of evil much like how we allow Iron Man to be the face of good, but really we never consider the person in the background pulling the strings. Much like the Iron Man suit, the Mandarin was merely a tool or a vehicle . we center ourselves on the hammer and not the hand that holds it. The movies main theme was "does the suit make the man or does the man make the suit". Iron Man 3 was really more a Tony Stark movie to begin with. The Mandarin character was presented similar to that of Iron Man and that both are just suits and images for the public eye, but something greater and deeper becomes apparent.
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12:03AM on 05/16/2013
we allowed The Mandarin to be the face of evil much like how we allow Iron Man to be the face of good, but really we never consider the person in the background pulling the strings. Much like the Iron Man suit, the Mandarin was merely a tool or a vehicle . we center ourselves on the hammer and not the hand that holds it. The movies main theme was "does the suit make the man or does the man make the suit". Iron Man 3 was really more a Tony Stark movie to begin with. The Mandarin character was
we allowed The Mandarin to be the face of evil much like how we allow Iron Man to be the face of good, but really we never consider the person in the background pulling the strings. Much like the Iron Man suit, the Mandarin was merely a tool or a vehicle . we center ourselves on the hammer and not the hand that holds it. The movies main theme was "does the suit make the man or does the man make the suit". Iron Man 3 was really more a Tony Stark movie to begin with. The Mandarin character was presented similar to that of Iron Man and that both are just suits and images for the public eye, but something greater and deeper becomes apparent.
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11:58PM on 05/15/2013

I'm seeing a trend.

The amount of red posts in this article, alone, show that it was not a good idea. Film makers shouldn't cater completely to the audience, but at least let us know in advance to not expect what we want.
The amount of red posts in this article, alone, show that it was not a good idea. Film makers shouldn't cater completely to the audience, but at least let us know in advance to not expect what we want.
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11:28PM on 05/15/2013

I like the twist, but hate that he used The Mandarin to do it

like- couldn't he have used a completely new character to serve the same purpose, rather than potentially ruining the greatest Iron Man villain - especially considering he really doesn't have many good ones to note.
like- couldn't he have used a completely new character to serve the same purpose, rather than potentially ruining the greatest Iron Man villain - especially considering he really doesn't have many good ones to note.
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+2
11:26PM on 05/15/2013

You don't have to defend yourself Shane!

What he did with the mandarin was clever, ground breaking and very very brave. It takes someone with real balls to alter such beloved character and I respect the shit out of that. Nothing like this has ever been done before! I think that in a couple of years people will eventually accept the twist and enjoy the movie for the brilliant movie that is. Sure it has a few problems but even the dark knight had some major holes in it. I thought this movie was fun as shit and I'm looking forward to
What he did with the mandarin was clever, ground breaking and very very brave. It takes someone with real balls to alter such beloved character and I respect the shit out of that. Nothing like this has ever been done before! I think that in a couple of years people will eventually accept the twist and enjoy the movie for the brilliant movie that is. Sure it has a few problems but even the dark knight had some major holes in it. I thought this movie was fun as shit and I'm looking forward to seeing what Black does next with his unique writing skills.
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12:57AM on 05/16/2013
Totally agree.
Totally agree.
11:12PM on 05/15/2013
On the whole, I enjoyed the film. I think the friend I saw the movie with said it best: "I guess my feelings on the Mandarin thing are that it's a clever enough twist, but you forgo certain storytelling opportunities by faking him out like that". While it is amusing and a very ballsy move, I can totally understand why fans who are attached to the character would be all kinds of pissed off and how it has been viewed as a kind of betrayal. Forgive me for playing backseat screenwriter, but I think
On the whole, I enjoyed the film. I think the friend I saw the movie with said it best: "I guess my feelings on the Mandarin thing are that it's a clever enough twist, but you forgo certain storytelling opportunities by faking him out like that". While it is amusing and a very ballsy move, I can totally understand why fans who are attached to the character would be all kinds of pissed off and how it has been viewed as a kind of betrayal. Forgive me for playing backseat screenwriter, but I think it would've been better if The Mandarin was playing Killian from the start, making him believe he had hired an actor. Then he turns around, stabs him in the back, and has the final fight with Tony. It also would've been nice to have seen more Rebecca Hall, but at the end of the day, I really liked Iron Man 3.
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11:02PM on 05/15/2013
....
....
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11:00PM on 05/15/2013
So he thought showing The Mandarin taking a shit was better
So he thought showing The Mandarin taking a shit was better
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10:57PM on 05/15/2013
So he thought showing The Mandarin taking a shit was better
So he thought showing The Mandarin taking a shit was better
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+3
10:57PM on 05/15/2013
I am a Shane Black fan so it is hard for me to "hate" on the guy, but I completely hated the "twist". I had the biggest 'What the fuck' moment in a long while. In fact I even said aloud in the theater "What the fuck, you can't be serious!", when the big reveal happened. I was completely in love with Kingsleys portrayal of the character until then. Overall, I liked the movie but that "joke" move really really stains the film for me. Like other people have stated, this was like the Joker or
I am a Shane Black fan so it is hard for me to "hate" on the guy, but I completely hated the "twist". I had the biggest 'What the fuck' moment in a long while. In fact I even said aloud in the theater "What the fuck, you can't be serious!", when the big reveal happened. I was completely in love with Kingsleys portrayal of the character until then. Overall, I liked the movie but that "joke" move really really stains the film for me. Like other people have stated, this was like the Joker or Magneto ending up being just figureheads to lesser character/people.
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9:44PM on 05/15/2013
Nope, sorry Shane.
Nope, sorry Shane.
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9:39PM on 05/15/2013
When I got to the reveal as I was sitting in the theater, I was thinking to myself like really? This is what all the outrage is about? I don't think he would've been that effective against Iron Man even as the facade, seeing as he would've just been the head of terrorist organization and he didn't actually have the ten rings.

Who knows, maybe Kingsley's joke of a character acquires some alien rings via some giant purple titan shenanigans later on.
When I got to the reveal as I was sitting in the theater, I was thinking to myself like really? This is what all the outrage is about? I don't think he would've been that effective against Iron Man even as the facade, seeing as he would've just been the head of terrorist organization and he didn't actually have the ten rings.

Who knows, maybe Kingsley's joke of a character acquires some alien rings via some giant purple titan shenanigans later on.
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9:05PM on 05/15/2013
I thought the twist in Iron Man 3 was brilliant and was very well written and executed. What they did with the character fitted the tone and style of the Marvel Universe...or at least the universe in the Iron Man films.
I thought the twist in Iron Man 3 was brilliant and was very well written and executed. What they did with the character fitted the tone and style of the Marvel Universe...or at least the universe in the Iron Man films.
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10:34AM on 05/16/2013
No it didn't.
The marvel universe on films now has aliens and other dimensions in it, why not make him have powers?
Its a total cop out trying to make a grounded superhero flick these days.

ESPECIALLY since last outing we saw him he flew a nuke through a portal to another galaxy?



No it didn't.
The marvel universe on films now has aliens and other dimensions in it, why not make him have powers?
Its a total cop out trying to make a grounded superhero flick these days.

ESPECIALLY since last outing we saw him he flew a nuke through a portal to another galaxy?



8:56PM on 05/15/2013
Considering Mandarin is close to being Iron Man's equivalent of the Joker in the comics, he deserved better. Hell a slight hint that maybe he was more than he seemed to be would have made a great plot point and a set up for a future film.
I liked the film as an action film but not as a superhero film.
Anyone else point out that this was really the adventures of Iron Man's armor with Tony Stark standing off to the side like he was flying an RC plane?
Considering Mandarin is close to being Iron Man's equivalent of the Joker in the comics, he deserved better. Hell a slight hint that maybe he was more than he seemed to be would have made a great plot point and a set up for a future film.
I liked the film as an action film but not as a superhero film.
Anyone else point out that this was really the adventures of Iron Man's armor with Tony Stark standing off to the side like he was flying an RC plane?
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8:52PM on 05/15/2013
To everyone saying that fanboys need to quit their bitching, may I point out that without the fans keeping these characters alive for generations we wouldn't even have these movies today? Especially a character like Iron Man, who very few people outside of comic nerds knew anything about before the first movie in 2008. They might have known the name, but not his story.
To everyone saying that fanboys need to quit their bitching, may I point out that without the fans keeping these characters alive for generations we wouldn't even have these movies today? Especially a character like Iron Man, who very few people outside of comic nerds knew anything about before the first movie in 2008. They might have known the name, but not his story.
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8:23PM on 05/15/2013

This kept me from seeing the movie

Triple post, sorry.
Triple post, sorry.
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8:22PM on 05/15/2013

This kept me from seeing the movie

Double post, sorry.
Double post, sorry.
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8:18PM on 05/15/2013

This kept me from seeing the movie

I suspected that this happened from reading a few reviews and I just had to confirm it before seeing the film. Once I found out the truth, I decided against seeing the movie. Why? Because unlike Nolan's Batman series, the villains in the first two Iron Man film were incredibly weak. RDJ carried the first one on his shoulders but even he couldn't save the second IMHO. At no time did I ever get the sense that Iron Man truly faced a threat in either of the first two Iron Man films. So with that
I suspected that this happened from reading a few reviews and I just had to confirm it before seeing the film. Once I found out the truth, I decided against seeing the movie. Why? Because unlike Nolan's Batman series, the villains in the first two Iron Man film were incredibly weak. RDJ carried the first one on his shoulders but even he couldn't save the second IMHO. At no time did I ever get the sense that Iron Man truly faced a threat in either of the first two Iron Man films. So with that said I was really excited by the initial trailers for Iron Man 3 as I thought that Iron Man had finally met his Joker in the Mandarin - a charismatic, imposing and iconic villain that actually posed a real challenge to the protagonist, something that would have brought the film to the next level. When I found out they had opted to be clever instead, I felt let down and all my interest in the film evaporated. I understand why someone people wouldn't be too put off by that but the previous track record of the Iron Man films, the misleading marketing campaign, the misuse of a great villian (and actor) just left a really bad impression. I'll probably catch this film on TV if there's nothing else on but I won't see it in the theater.
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8:18PM on 05/15/2013
He has called the character a racist character yet Marvel and the company that releases their action figure line is perfectly okay with them releasing Mandarin figures in the style of the comics. Shane Black is simply angry that people have called him out on his sloppy writing.
He has called the character a racist character yet Marvel and the company that releases their action figure line is perfectly okay with them releasing Mandarin figures in the style of the comics. Shane Black is simply angry that people have called him out on his sloppy writing.
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+9
8:17PM on 05/15/2013

What?

I'm not a reader of the comics, but I looked into the history of the Mandarin before seeing the film, and even I was disappointed at the twist.

To quote Black, "And hopefully, by the end youre like, Yeah, we were really frightened of the Mandarin, but in the end he really wasnt that bad after all.'" What? When watching the film, when Ben Kingsley's character 'shoots' the kidnapped dude, I genuinely feared The Mandarin. That was the point where I really wanted Iron Man to have a brutal
I'm not a reader of the comics, but I looked into the history of the Mandarin before seeing the film, and even I was disappointed at the twist.

To quote Black, "And hopefully, by the end youre like, Yeah, we were really frightened of the Mandarin, but in the end he really wasnt that bad after all.'" What? When watching the film, when Ben Kingsley's character 'shoots' the kidnapped dude, I genuinely feared The Mandarin. That was the point where I really wanted Iron Man to have a brutal showdown with him, against an unstoppable force of magic power. Instead I got Kingsley cheering on a soccer team. Pretty much dropped the film to my least favourite of the three.
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7:58PM on 05/15/2013

He can defend it all he wants

Still a shitty twist and ruined a character in an otherwise really good movie
Still a shitty twist and ruined a character in an otherwise really good movie
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7:54PM on 05/15/2013

Tony should have been an alcoholic

Didn't Marvel just lecture DC on not being afraid to stay true to source material when making a movie? They knew from the start they didn't want an Asian guy with magic rings, and that was their biggest mistake. The Avengers opened the door for magic, and a Dr. Strange movie will be coming down the pipeline soon, so why they wanted to keep it having that real world feel and sacrifice Iron Man's greatest foe makes no sense.
Didn't Marvel just lecture DC on not being afraid to stay true to source material when making a movie? They knew from the start they didn't want an Asian guy with magic rings, and that was their biggest mistake. The Avengers opened the door for magic, and a Dr. Strange movie will be coming down the pipeline soon, so why they wanted to keep it having that real world feel and sacrifice Iron Man's greatest foe makes no sense.
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7:45PM on 05/15/2013
I actually like the twist. It is bold and fresh. It does ruin the origins for The Mandarin but it fits with modern world like he said with lots of behind the scenes.
I actually like the twist. It is bold and fresh. It does ruin the origins for The Mandarin but it fits with modern world like he said with lots of behind the scenes.
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7:38PM on 05/15/2013
This is a poor defense for a poor choice.
This is a poor defense for a poor choice.
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7:36PM on 05/15/2013
I think fanboys have been appeased enough lately. I'll take someone doing something new over someone appeasing my expectations any day of the week. Did I want Tony Stark to face off against the Mandarin I thought was coming? Fuck yeah, of course I did. But just because I wanted it doesn't mean it was the better choice. The movie I saw was much better than the one I had in my head and in a way that I never expected it to be. I say bravo.
I think fanboys have been appeased enough lately. I'll take someone doing something new over someone appeasing my expectations any day of the week. Did I want Tony Stark to face off against the Mandarin I thought was coming? Fuck yeah, of course I did. But just because I wanted it doesn't mean it was the better choice. The movie I saw was much better than the one I had in my head and in a way that I never expected it to be. I say bravo.
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7:34PM on 05/15/2013
Lex Luthor was a wise cracking smart ass who surrounded himself with buffoons in the Superman movies, but everyone seems to praise Gene Hackman and Richard Donner for what they did with the character
Lex Luthor was a wise cracking smart ass who surrounded himself with buffoons in the Superman movies, but everyone seems to praise Gene Hackman and Richard Donner for what they did with the character
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7:44PM on 05/15/2013
Because it felt organic and it worked. This suffered from poor writing.
Because it felt organic and it worked. This suffered from poor writing.
8:15PM on 05/15/2013
Lex Luthor of the comics back then wasn't the same Lex Luthor of today. Donner's Superman is based more on the Golden Age of Superman.
Lex Luthor of the comics back then wasn't the same Lex Luthor of today. Donner's Superman is based more on the Golden Age of Superman.
7:28PM on 05/15/2013
The concept of Mandarin is childish and silly in the comics. How he is a legitimate arch nemesis in the comic book world is beyond me. It worked great for this franchise, and Ben Kingsley was hilarious. Get over it fanboys. If he was a magical ninja with powers he got from a crashed spacecraft, the movie would have sucked. Instead we got a good movie because of the direction they took. IM3 was the best movie we've gotten so far this year and was a great kickoff to 2013 blockbusters, despite
The concept of Mandarin is childish and silly in the comics. How he is a legitimate arch nemesis in the comic book world is beyond me. It worked great for this franchise, and Ben Kingsley was hilarious. Get over it fanboys. If he was a magical ninja with powers he got from a crashed spacecraft, the movie would have sucked. Instead we got a good movie because of the direction they took. IM3 was the best movie we've gotten so far this year and was a great kickoff to 2013 blockbusters, despite what whiny fanboys have to say.
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9:06PM on 05/15/2013
Totally agree.
Totally agree.
1:30AM on 05/16/2013
Well it's sure as hell not the best movie of the year, but I do agree with the jist of your post
Well it's sure as hell not the best movie of the year, but I do agree with the jist of your post
+9
7:28PM on 05/15/2013
While I understand why he did it and the message behind it it still sucks for us comic fans. We all went into that movie expecting to see thee Mandarin but there was no Mandarin. Its a snake oil sales man pitch that we all fell for. The film to me was a disapointment, not RDJ tho, just the film over all.
While I understand why he did it and the message behind it it still sucks for us comic fans. We all went into that movie expecting to see thee Mandarin but there was no Mandarin. Its a snake oil sales man pitch that we all fell for. The film to me was a disapointment, not RDJ tho, just the film over all.
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+5
7:15PM on 05/15/2013

Completely agree with Shane

He makes a great point and also grounds the movie. Superhero movies HAVE to be grounded or they can become too silly. What works as a comic book cartoon in spiffy colors, does not necessarily work in live-action.
He makes a great point and also grounds the movie. Superhero movies HAVE to be grounded or they can become too silly. What works as a comic book cartoon in spiffy colors, does not necessarily work in live-action.
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7:21PM on 05/15/2013
Grounded in what? Fire breathing people with hot hands?
Grounded in what? Fire breathing people with hot hands?
7:05PM on 05/15/2013
The movie was just okay. I never followed the comic book, so I didn't know what to expect from the Mandarin. I thought: how was Iron Man supposed to fight an old guy? Anyway, I was disappointed. The bigger twist for me was what Tony did with all of his Iron Man suits in the end.
The movie was just okay. I never followed the comic book, so I didn't know what to expect from the Mandarin. I thought: how was Iron Man supposed to fight an old guy? Anyway, I was disappointed. The bigger twist for me was what Tony did with all of his Iron Man suits in the end.
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7:00PM on 05/15/2013

No

So dumb. If they can't get the characters right, they shouldn't be doing the movie. I think it's okay to take certain liberties, but this movie was way to much. They should have given Favreau whatever he wanted. Jon Favreau made a second tier Marvel character cool with his movies. Even if I wasn't a fan of Iron Man 2, at least it had some heart. This had nothing, and was very forgettable. I don't know who thought it would be a great idea to get the guy who wrote Lethal Weapon 4 to direct
So dumb. If they can't get the characters right, they shouldn't be doing the movie. I think it's okay to take certain liberties, but this movie was way to much. They should have given Favreau whatever he wanted. Jon Favreau made a second tier Marvel character cool with his movies. Even if I wasn't a fan of Iron Man 2, at least it had some heart. This had nothing, and was very forgettable. I don't know who thought it would be a great idea to get the guy who wrote Lethal Weapon 4 to direct this movie. This movie made me not want another Iron Man movie.
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+5
6:52PM on 05/15/2013
Would I have liked to see the Mandarin from the comics in the movie? Sure. But I honestly don't think it could have been pulled off without becoming cheesy, and therefore incensing fanboys everywhere even more than they are now. It was a nice little twist that added some much needed levity to an otherwise fairly dark movie. No one could have pulled it off as well as Black did.
Would I have liked to see the Mandarin from the comics in the movie? Sure. But I honestly don't think it could have been pulled off without becoming cheesy, and therefore incensing fanboys everywhere even more than they are now. It was a nice little twist that added some much needed levity to an otherwise fairly dark movie. No one could have pulled it off as well as Black did.
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7:02PM on 05/15/2013
Have you seen Thor? Ridiculous idea to bring to the screen. Ken Branagh made it somewhat cool. Aside from goth kid Loki.
Have you seen Thor? Ridiculous idea to bring to the screen. Ken Branagh made it somewhat cool. Aside from goth kid Loki.
3:06AM on 05/16/2013
Have you seen Branaugh's previous work? I saw his version of Hamlet three times in the theater (btw, it's a 4 hour plus movie). He's a member of the Royal Shakespeare Theater, and really the only director that could have pulled Thor off as well as he did. Thor is very Shakespearian, and Marvel was smart to hire the right director for the job, just like they did for Iron Man 3.
Have you seen Branaugh's previous work? I saw his version of Hamlet three times in the theater (btw, it's a 4 hour plus movie). He's a member of the Royal Shakespeare Theater, and really the only director that could have pulled Thor off as well as he did. Thor is very Shakespearian, and Marvel was smart to hire the right director for the job, just like they did for Iron Man 3.
6:43PM on 05/15/2013
And he has every right to defend it cause it was awesome. Well played.
And he has every right to defend it cause it was awesome. Well played.
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6:22PM on 05/15/2013

wtf-ever. he took the mandarin's name and applied to something that wasn't the mandarin.

and to me(a comic nerd), the movie suffered for it. kinglsey was fucking awesome, though.
and to me(a comic nerd), the movie suffered for it. kinglsey was fucking awesome, though.
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6:19PM on 05/15/2013
Fun fact: There was a persistent rumor that Iraqi faction of Al Qaeda had actually hired an Iraq-born actor to play 'Abu Omar al Baghdadi' as the group's leader in order to distract from the fact that foreign terrorists were really running the group. Baghdadi was killed in a US raid in 2010 along with the Egyptian-born terrorist widely believed to really be running the strings. To this day little is publicly known about Baghdadi's identity.

So there's actually some real world basis for
Fun fact: There was a persistent rumor that Iraqi faction of Al Qaeda had actually hired an Iraq-born actor to play 'Abu Omar al Baghdadi' as the group's leader in order to distract from the fact that foreign terrorists were really running the group. Baghdadi was killed in a US raid in 2010 along with the Egyptian-born terrorist widely believed to really be running the strings. To this day little is publicly known about Baghdadi's identity.

So there's actually some real world basis for this. And personally I love the idea that the Mandarin was a myth. The Mandarin of the comics was a personification of every ugly, awful anti-Asian stereotype that existed in the mid-20th Century. So I really love that Shane Black's Mandarin is a similar representative of every cliche we have about foreign terrorists and the like, and turns out to be a propagandist diversion to hide the real enemy. That, to me, is truly doing the character 'justice.'
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6:18PM on 05/15/2013

wtf-ever. he took the mandarin's name and applied to something that wasn't the mandarin.

and to me(a comic nerd), the movie suffered for it. kinglsey was fucking awesome, though.
and to me(a comic nerd), the movie suffered for it. kinglsey was fucking awesome, though.
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+2
6:15PM on 05/15/2013

Pointless twist -

that read like a giant F U to comic book fans the world over. Not to mention, what would have been cooler, more interesting, and a lot more fun - the Mandarin the way he's done in the movie, or the Mandarin the way the advertising portrayed him - the way he SHOULD have been done and the way they should have followed through with? A dumb idea is still a dumb idea, even when you defend it with fancy words. Words are wind.
that read like a giant F U to comic book fans the world over. Not to mention, what would have been cooler, more interesting, and a lot more fun - the Mandarin the way he's done in the movie, or the Mandarin the way the advertising portrayed him - the way he SHOULD have been done and the way they should have followed through with? A dumb idea is still a dumb idea, even when you defend it with fancy words. Words are wind.
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+17
6:14PM on 05/15/2013
Now he needs to defend taking AC/DC out and adding that shitty "Blue (Da Be Dee)" song insted!
Now he needs to defend taking AC/DC out and adding that shitty "Blue (Da Be Dee)" song insted!
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5:58PM on 05/15/2013

The way I see it...

Iron Man is about technology, Thor is about magic, and Captain America is about war. I think they wanted to separate the three conflicts that each one can bring to the Avengers, IMO. The Avengers is about all three(or more) conflicts coming together and making a bigger conflict, in which, All hero's must team up. I think the Mandarin was done right by this, but it they should have picked a better choice if they were gonna just end up making the villain a hoax. But I must say so myself that Ben
Iron Man is about technology, Thor is about magic, and Captain America is about war. I think they wanted to separate the three conflicts that each one can bring to the Avengers, IMO. The Avengers is about all three(or more) conflicts coming together and making a bigger conflict, in which, All hero's must team up. I think the Mandarin was done right by this, but it they should have picked a better choice if they were gonna just end up making the villain a hoax. But I must say so myself that Ben Kingsley had me laughing my ass off, so all was forgiven in my book.
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+15
5:48PM on 05/15/2013

No big deal

Wasn't the biggest plot twist whenTony Stark revealed that he was Iron Man? I didn't see anyone burning Jon Favreau in effigy for that stunt.
Wasn't the biggest plot twist whenTony Stark revealed that he was Iron Man? I didn't see anyone burning Jon Favreau in effigy for that stunt.
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+17
5:48PM on 05/15/2013

What they should have done...

If they really wanted to keep this idea, than they shouldn't have made Killian the Mandarin. Instead, have Killian tell Stark he couldn't find the real mandarin, so he hired someone who looked like him as a distraction for him and the public from his Extremis project. Than at the end credits reveal where the real Mandarin is, and maybe he was behind the plot all along (something like Thanos at the end of Avengers) to set up Iron Man 4. That way, Shane Black keeps the same essence of his plot
If they really wanted to keep this idea, than they shouldn't have made Killian the Mandarin. Instead, have Killian tell Stark he couldn't find the real mandarin, so he hired someone who looked like him as a distraction for him and the public from his Extremis project. Than at the end credits reveal where the real Mandarin is, and maybe he was behind the plot all along (something like Thanos at the end of Avengers) to set up Iron Man 4. That way, Shane Black keeps the same essence of his plot twist, but the fans still have hope of seeing a "true" mandarin later on.
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11:00PM on 05/15/2013
Thats exactly what I thought.. But I guess Shane isn't as smart as us average blo's
Thats exactly what I thought.. But I guess Shane isn't as smart as us average blo's
5:47PM on 05/15/2013
Hate on his Iron Man 3 if you must. But don't hate on Shane Black.
Hate on his Iron Man 3 if you must. But don't hate on Shane Black.
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11:02PM on 05/15/2013
Fuck him.. He did it.. and now he's defending it
Fuck him.. He did it.. and now he's defending it
5:46PM on 05/15/2013

Great twist

While I can understand being upset over changes made to a beloved character (Michael Myers going from a frightening boogeyman to an eight-foot tall hobo comes to mind), one must understand the necessity in reinvention and update from something that was created decades ago. Also, changes need to be made in the adaptation of material to film. Look at how Joker went from a man whose face was scarred by chemicals to a man wearing makeup.

Not knowing anything about IRON MAN before the films came
While I can understand being upset over changes made to a beloved character (Michael Myers going from a frightening boogeyman to an eight-foot tall hobo comes to mind), one must understand the necessity in reinvention and update from something that was created decades ago. Also, changes need to be made in the adaptation of material to film. Look at how Joker went from a man whose face was scarred by chemicals to a man wearing makeup.

Not knowing anything about IRON MAN before the films came out, I loved the twist, and found it the best part of the film and the strongest subtextual idea as well. Shane Black is and has always been a brilliant writer, and this twist is a glowing example of it. After I saw the film three days before release, I said to my friend, "The fanboys are gonna hate that twist, I'm sure."

But we didn't care. As film fans before comic fans, we thought it was a great twist for the story we were being told. We both still think that Michael Myers didn't need to be an eight-foot tall hobo though.
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5:43PM on 05/15/2013

The Mandarin from the promo was already a change from the comics

Instead of having this Fu Manchu villain with magical rings, they turned him into a terrorist. I was willing to accept this new take on the character because filmmakers need some space to be creative,but adding a new twist after we had to accept this new version is just too much. When Stark finally meets The Mandarin, it's a letdown for him because he thought he was more dangerous, and it's a letdown for us because it is filmed as an anti-climax.

And it doesn't help that the real villain
Instead of having this Fu Manchu villain with magical rings, they turned him into a terrorist. I was willing to accept this new take on the character because filmmakers need some space to be creative,but adding a new twist after we had to accept this new version is just too much. When Stark finally meets The Mandarin, it's a letdown for him because he thought he was more dangerous, and it's a letdown for us because it is filmed as an anti-climax.

And it doesn't help that the real villain doesn't really have anything about him that would make him memorable. A big clue that says how much it didn't work is that people refer to the characters as The Mandarin and Guy Pearce. Ben Kingsley was playing a memorable character and Pearce wasn't.
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+13
5:43PM on 05/15/2013

I was not all that familiar with The Mandarin going in, BUT...

he is ENEMY NUMBER ONE in the Iron Man mythos. It would be like getting to the end of the first Spider-Man film and finding out that the Green Goblin is nothing but a pawn of Stilt Man! That said, my problems with Iron Man 3 stem from the tone, plot holes, and bad attempts at humor more than the Mandarin twist.
he is ENEMY NUMBER ONE in the Iron Man mythos. It would be like getting to the end of the first Spider-Man film and finding out that the Green Goblin is nothing but a pawn of Stilt Man! That said, my problems with Iron Man 3 stem from the tone, plot holes, and bad attempts at humor more than the Mandarin twist.
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5:46PM on 05/15/2013
Snap.
Snap.
5:42PM on 05/15/2013
The fact that he even has to defend it proves it was a shit idea. If it's a great twist it will just work (Star Wars, Fight Club, Sixth Sense, Memento)! You don't need to back peddle on ScreenRant afterwards to upset fans.
The fact that he even has to defend it proves it was a shit idea. If it's a great twist it will just work (Star Wars, Fight Club, Sixth Sense, Memento)! You don't need to back peddle on ScreenRant afterwards to upset fans.
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+3
5:38PM on 05/15/2013

I get it. This in no way hurts a true Mandarin later on.

What if Aldrich Killian saw The Dark Knight and said that is how I could create real terror. If you were going to make a hyper-realistic version of The Mandarin, you would get IM3. However if you were going to have a hyper-realistic terrorist that attacks seemingly randomly and nowhere is safe, and then go on TV. That is a classic villain protocol. Hans Gruber was a fantastic villain because of the misdirection, the professional nature, the cold-hearted ruthlessness. You got that and what it
What if Aldrich Killian saw The Dark Knight and said that is how I could create real terror. If you were going to make a hyper-realistic version of The Mandarin, you would get IM3. However if you were going to have a hyper-realistic terrorist that attacks seemingly randomly and nowhere is safe, and then go on TV. That is a classic villain protocol. Hans Gruber was a fantastic villain because of the misdirection, the professional nature, the cold-hearted ruthlessness. You got that and what it did for me is ground the movie better. I was more accepting of the 'fire' fighting because the terror was realistic and possible in our world.
For those that wanted to see a classic Mandarin you still can, his name will be Gene Khan and he has rings or power that operate on advanced tech by the will of the user. But not right after the Avengers, make the heroes vulnerable, introspective, human and build up to another epic showdown. If Marvel operated on surpassing the last one it would burn out like vampires. Vampires are cliche now, they were over used. If you are going to do tons of superhero movies, they have to have different sizes and tones. The Iron Man animated movie sucked with the Mandarin by the way. I got about half way through and stopped caring. I just had flashes of the various animated and CGI versions seen since the 90s and said Tony's got this. I am gonna go watch Arrested Development.
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5:35PM on 05/15/2013
I respect the twist. And I respect Iron Man 3. But the marketing promised something completely different than what we were given. It was dishonest marketing. Period.
I respect the twist. And I respect Iron Man 3. But the marketing promised something completely different than what we were given. It was dishonest marketing. Period.
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5:33PM on 05/15/2013
Shane Black makes a great point.....Not! ( _LickMyLovePump_ wishes he said something cooler ) AD parody.
Shane Black makes a great point.....Not! ( _LickMyLovePump_ wishes he said something cooler ) AD parody.
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+6
5:31PM on 05/15/2013

On the plus side, for those upset by it...

Nobody's saying that the "Madarin" as we knew him can't pick up that name and make an appearance at some point in the future.
Nobody's saying that the "Madarin" as we knew him can't pick up that name and make an appearance at some point in the future.
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5:29PM on 05/15/2013
I'm not a Marvel fanboy by any means, and wouldn't have been upset if they had changed The Mandarin in any other way. This "twist" is just cheap. They included The Mandarin because everybody wanted to see it, then they used the weakest possible way to make it "real world" because they couldn't write a story good enough to include him. Having the director explain why it works means it didn't work.
I'm not a Marvel fanboy by any means, and wouldn't have been upset if they had changed The Mandarin in any other way. This "twist" is just cheap. They included The Mandarin because everybody wanted to see it, then they used the weakest possible way to make it "real world" because they couldn't write a story good enough to include him. Having the director explain why it works means it didn't work.
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5:25PM on 05/15/2013
Blah..blah..blah
Blah..blah..blah
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5:25PM on 05/15/2013
Blah..blah..blah
Blah..blah..blah
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5:22PM on 05/15/2013
I'm no fanboy by any stretch of the imagination, but even after a second viewing, knowing the twist and direction in which they took the character, I still feel a bit letdown. I try to tell myself, "Well, at least he's not fighting another fucking robot at the end," but I'm just kidding myself. The trailers had the Mandarin as this fucking badass, the poster with his foot on a broken Iron Man helmet made him look fucking badass, the sneer behind the aviator glasses, FUCKING BAD ASS, but then
I'm no fanboy by any stretch of the imagination, but even after a second viewing, knowing the twist and direction in which they took the character, I still feel a bit letdown. I try to tell myself, "Well, at least he's not fighting another fucking robot at the end," but I'm just kidding myself. The trailers had the Mandarin as this fucking badass, the poster with his foot on a broken Iron Man helmet made him look fucking badass, the sneer behind the aviator glasses, FUCKING BAD ASS, but then the switcheroo; the real villain is fucking Buddy Love??!!! Iron Man's fucking enemy in the movie is the fucking Nutty Professor? C'MON MAAAAAAAN!!!!! It's hard to take a villain seriously when he's presented looking like fucking Eugene from Grease, and all of a sudden, you put a dragon tattoo on his chest and pomade his hair back and I'm supposed to tremble in my sneakers? As Trevor would say, "Nawwwwt blooooody lah-ikely...." Meh. Also, the removal of the arc reactor in Stark's chest, the genesis of what makes him Iron Man, being a 5 second, seemingly throw away moment, was pretty lame. "Oh, really, so you CAN remove it? Great!" Stark, the genius weapons developer did NOT seek a second opinion? I still love the movies though; RDJ is great and the humor, especially in the third one, is smart and clever. That's it...
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5:21PM on 05/15/2013
Ever since they first announced they were doing an Iron Man movie, I looked forward to seeing the Mandarin. So it was no surprise that I left the theater disappointed at how he was represented in the movie. This is a summer movie. We don't need underlying messages, but it sounds like Shane overthought the story. Imagine if they did this in The Dark Knight where the Joker turned out to be just some guy in a costume while the real threat was Sal Maroni.
Ever since they first announced they were doing an Iron Man movie, I looked forward to seeing the Mandarin. So it was no surprise that I left the theater disappointed at how he was represented in the movie. This is a summer movie. We don't need underlying messages, but it sounds like Shane overthought the story. Imagine if they did this in The Dark Knight where the Joker turned out to be just some guy in a costume while the real threat was Sal Maroni.
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5:21PM on 05/15/2013
I didn't mind the twist at all. But I never read an Iron Man comic or heard of the Mandarin before, so I can understand how some folks could be upset. As a movie viewer who loves Guy Pearce I was glad he took center stage instead of being a lackey.
I didn't mind the twist at all. But I never read an Iron Man comic or heard of the Mandarin before, so I can understand how some folks could be upset. As a movie viewer who loves Guy Pearce I was glad he took center stage instead of being a lackey.
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5:18PM on 05/15/2013
I really enjoyed the movie. I liked the action & comedy. But I'm not a comic book aficionado so I didn't really know Mandarin's whole story. I think the hardcore comic fans, who these days are in the minority when it comes to superhero films IMO, are the only ones that "hated" the movie. But they are way more passionate about voicing their hate too.

However, i do believe Disney made this business decision to appease China.
I really enjoyed the movie. I liked the action & comedy. But I'm not a comic book aficionado so I didn't really know Mandarin's whole story. I think the hardcore comic fans, who these days are in the minority when it comes to superhero films IMO, are the only ones that "hated" the movie. But they are way more passionate about voicing their hate too.

However, i do believe Disney made this business decision to appease China.
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5:17PM on 05/15/2013

I hated the twist

What made the twist truly so terrible was it seemed like a rip-off of Batman Begin's twist, but failed to match that one because the 'real' Mandarin was never revealed. I could understand if Kingsley was a front for the true Mandarin lurking behind the shadows, but instead they turned Iron Man's greatest foe into a cinematic joke for shock value more than having a moral resolution that proved that fear can be intimidating if not known. What a load of crap. This just means we'll probably never
What made the twist truly so terrible was it seemed like a rip-off of Batman Begin's twist, but failed to match that one because the 'real' Mandarin was never revealed. I could understand if Kingsley was a front for the true Mandarin lurking behind the shadows, but instead they turned Iron Man's greatest foe into a cinematic joke for shock value more than having a moral resolution that proved that fear can be intimidating if not known. What a load of crap. This just means we'll probably never see the Mandarin in the current Marvel Cinematic Universe. But I'm hopeful we'll one day get a true version....
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5:15PM on 05/15/2013

I didn't really care about the plot twist...

I was just disappointed overall. Maybe when I watch it a second time I'll enjoy it more.
I was just disappointed overall. Maybe when I watch it a second time I'll enjoy it more.
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5:07PM on 05/15/2013

fanboy bitching...

of course they are gonna bitch about it, it was a crap decision. the movies are supposed to be made for the fans. shouldn't we be satisfied? screw the investors, they should count their money and shut the fuck up. offended? i really don't care.
of course they are gonna bitch about it, it was a crap decision. the movies are supposed to be made for the fans. shouldn't we be satisfied? screw the investors, they should count their money and shut the fuck up. offended? i really don't care.
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5:15PM on 05/15/2013
Agreed. At least they're bitching about the movie and not the people who they disagree with. How's about those who loved IM3 focus all their energy on that and not worry about those who didn't. You want the "haters" to give it a rest. I'm sure when they have their opinions attacked the feeling is mutual.
Agreed. At least they're bitching about the movie and not the people who they disagree with. How's about those who loved IM3 focus all their energy on that and not worry about those who didn't. You want the "haters" to give it a rest. I'm sure when they have their opinions attacked the feeling is mutual.
+13
5:02PM on 05/15/2013

I liked the twist!

Using the media to create a villain, an easy target for the masses to rally against, distracting them from the real threat, when there's actually more to it than just one man, one image, one idea? And doing it in a major studio film?

I left the theater applauding Shane Black for this.
Using the media to create a villain, an easy target for the masses to rally against, distracting them from the real threat, when there's actually more to it than just one man, one image, one idea? And doing it in a major studio film?

I left the theater applauding Shane Black for this.
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+25
4:58PM on 05/15/2013
Water is wet, the sky is blue, fanboys will always bitch about movies. Who gives a fuck?
Water is wet, the sky is blue, fanboys will always bitch about movies. Who gives a fuck?
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6:44PM on 05/15/2013
Very nice play sir. You know the Shane Bible.
Very nice play sir. You know the Shane Bible.
4:53PM on 05/15/2013

Fanboys, please get over it.

Everyone bashing on the MCU version of the Mandarin, I get the disappointment, but that doesn't mean it wasn't the smart, and I personally believe the inspired, choice. As the Marvel Universe, and all comic universes, expand through movies great fans of the comic book sources must come to accept that these movies were not made for them. These movies were made for the masses. The audience experience Shane Black described above is what all those out there who are unfamiliar with the comics
Everyone bashing on the MCU version of the Mandarin, I get the disappointment, but that doesn't mean it wasn't the smart, and I personally believe the inspired, choice. As the Marvel Universe, and all comic universes, expand through movies great fans of the comic book sources must come to accept that these movies were not made for them. These movies were made for the masses. The audience experience Shane Black described above is what all those out there who are unfamiliar with the comics experienced. And the fact is, that is the majority of the people who saw this movie. While I might have found a crazy looking chinese guy with magic rings entertaining, I would not have found it intriguing or thought provoking like Shane Black's Mandarin. So, while you may not have seen the Mandarin you wanted, open your mind and accept this new one for what it is... different, but clever.

As a side note, TDK's Joker was also very different than the comics and people seemed to accept that.. Not as drastically, but still.
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5:02PM on 05/15/2013
Get over it = join the circle jerk
Get over it = join the circle jerk
5:27PM on 05/15/2013
Then why is the animated Iron Man film with the Mandarin more entertaining?
Then why is the animated Iron Man film with the Mandarin more entertaining?
5:31PM on 05/15/2013
Another question. If the changing the Mandarin character in the manner they did was smart, why not change the Iron Man character as well into a guy who does kids birthday parties and wears a plastic suit?

Wouldn't that be the equivalent of what they did with the Mandarin?
Another question. If the changing the Mandarin character in the manner they did was smart, why not change the Iron Man character as well into a guy who does kids birthday parties and wears a plastic suit?

Wouldn't that be the equivalent of what they did with the Mandarin?
6:06PM on 05/15/2013
TDK's Joker was still the Joker, he wore a purple suit, was psychotic and had a twisted sense of humor. There wasn't even that much of a change from any other incarnation of him, even his scars are from the old comics.
TDK's Joker was still the Joker, he wore a purple suit, was psychotic and had a twisted sense of humor. There wasn't even that much of a change from any other incarnation of him, even his scars are from the old comics.
4:52PM on 05/15/2013
Funny. I was disappointed by IM3 but had no problem w the Mandarin twist.

Of course I also have no problem w the infamous fridge scene in Indi 4 while I hate the crap out of that movie.
Funny. I was disappointed by IM3 but had no problem w the Mandarin twist.

Of course I also have no problem w the infamous fridge scene in Indi 4 while I hate the crap out of that movie.
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5:39PM on 05/15/2013
Same here. Iron Man 3 dropped the ball, but for me it didn't have so much to do with Mandarin.
Same here. Iron Man 3 dropped the ball, but for me it didn't have so much to do with Mandarin.
-12
4:49PM on 05/15/2013
Is Shane's bullshit explanation some sort of reference to today's current events and how everything isnt as bad as people make it out to be? Quite the opposite!! Lets ask the victims of 9/11 if Bin Laden wasnt really that bad a person.
Is Shane's bullshit explanation some sort of reference to today's current events and how everything isnt as bad as people make it out to be? Quite the opposite!! Lets ask the victims of 9/11 if Bin Laden wasnt really that bad a person.
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5:01PM on 05/15/2013
What a huge, stupid leap.
What a huge, stupid leap.
5:50PM on 05/15/2013
That's Mr. Black to you numbnutts. You aren't friends.
That's Mr. Black to you numbnutts. You aren't friends.
4:49PM on 05/15/2013

Bullshit

How about Mandarin, as depicted like the comic, would have offended the Chinese who make up the second largest box office in the world and helped get the movie made. That's the real reason. Mandarin never had a chance from the start as soon as we took money from Chinese investors and the writers had to figure out how to make it work. But if you want to believe this spin that Shane Black is some deep thinker trying to convey a bigger message to the audience, knock yourself out.
How about Mandarin, as depicted like the comic, would have offended the Chinese who make up the second largest box office in the world and helped get the movie made. That's the real reason. Mandarin never had a chance from the start as soon as we took money from Chinese investors and the writers had to figure out how to make it work. But if you want to believe this spin that Shane Black is some deep thinker trying to convey a bigger message to the audience, knock yourself out.
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+14
4:48PM on 05/15/2013
I wasn't frightened in the slightest by fake Mandarin, I was excited.....until the reveal, then I was disappointed and slightly angry.
I wasn't frightened in the slightest by fake Mandarin, I was excited.....until the reveal, then I was disappointed and slightly angry.
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4:57PM on 05/15/2013
So did Tony Stark. That was the point. Shane Black got you to feel what the character was feeling.
So did Tony Stark. That was the point. Shane Black got you to feel what the character was feeling.
4:44PM on 05/15/2013
Yeah, this was really disappointing. The animated Iron Man film has a much more satisfying Mandarin, and storyline.
Yeah, this was really disappointing. The animated Iron Man film has a much more satisfying Mandarin, and storyline.
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8:29PM on 05/15/2013
Wouldn't mind watching this one, do you know what it's called? Wikipedia's throwing up a few different titles.
Wouldn't mind watching this one, do you know what it's called? Wikipedia's throwing up a few different titles.
+12
4:43PM on 05/15/2013

He shouldn't have to

The twist was a pretty brilliant subversion of the "grim and gritty" comic book movie villain we've seen so much of lately
The twist was a pretty brilliant subversion of the "grim and gritty" comic book movie villain we've seen so much of lately
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+8
4:42PM on 05/15/2013

He shouldn't have to

The twist was a pretty brilliant subversion of the "grim and gritty" comic book movie villain we've seen so much of lately
The twist was a pretty brilliant subversion of the "grim and gritty" comic book movie villain we've seen so much of lately
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8:19PM on 05/15/2013
Yet it was written so poorly. Like a child wrote it.
Yet it was written so poorly. Like a child wrote it.
+29
4:38PM on 05/15/2013

In the Batman Reboot

They should make the Joker a self-employed clown for children's birthday parties. He doesn't commit crime, but his parties suck.
They should make the Joker a self-employed clown for children's birthday parties. He doesn't commit crime, but his parties suck.
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4:50PM on 05/15/2013
LMAO quote of the year!!
LMAO quote of the year!!
4:36PM on 05/15/2013
That plot twist is indefensible and Shane Black's defense of it above makes no legitimate sense to me.
That plot twist is indefensible and Shane Black's defense of it above makes no legitimate sense to me.
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