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Sophie Turner & George Martin talk up the recent Game of Thrones controversy

05.19.2015

The following article will be diving into spoilers for the 6th episode of Game of Thrones, 'Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken', which aired this past Sunday. If you're not up to date on the show, you'll definitely want to steer clear of the following as there are SPOILERS ahead! Also, in case you need a bit of a recap, you can check out our review of the episode here. Are we all on the same page? Great!

As you've undoubtedly noticed by now, there's been a deviation from the book that has people up in arms. So much so, that even entertainment site The Mary Sue has decided to stop promoting Game of Thrones altogether. The scene in question would be that of Ramsay Bolton raping Sansa Stark in front of Theon Greyjoy. A lot of people question whether this was just a shock tactic used by writers David Benioff or D.B. Weiss to end an episode of the show. Before we jump into that further, let's see what the author himself had to say about the matter.

George R.R. Martin on the recent deviation:

I am getting a flood of emails and off-topic comments on this blog about tonight’s episode of GAME OF THRONES. It’s not unanticipated. There have been differences between the novels and the television show since the first episode of season one. And for just as long, I have been talking about the butterfly effect. Small changes lead to larger changes lead to huge changes. David (Benioff) and Dan (Weiss) and Bryan (Cogman) and HBO are trying to make the best television series that they can. And over here I am trying to write the best novels that I can. And yes, more and more, they differ. Two roads diverging in the dark of the woods, I suppose... but all of us are still intending that at the end we will arrive at the same place.

Okay, so Martin didn't exactly tackle the issue head-on, but more that he's well aware of the changes and that he trusts the folks over at HBO in the direction they're headed and that the endgame will be the same. Fair enough! Now, let's take a look at what the actress who plays Sansa Stark, Sophie Turner (who will be playing Jean Grey in the upcoming X-MEN: APOCALYPSE), had to say about the scene.

Sophie Turner regarding her wedding night scene:

When I read that scene, I kinda loved it. I love the way Ramsay had Theon watching. It was all so messed up. It’s also so daunting for me to do it. I’ve been making [producer Bryan Cogman] feel so bad for writing that scene: “I can’t believe you’re doing this to me!” But I secretly loved it. After Joffrey, she’s escaped him and you think she’s going to lose her virginity to a guy who’s really sweet and takes care of her and she’s thrown in with a guy who’s a whole lot worse. But I kind of like the fact she doesn’t really know what a psycho he is until that night. She has a sense, but she’s more scared of his father. And then that night everything gets so f*cked up.

One of the running themes of Game of Thrones has always been about those with power and their abuse of it. Thrones is not always an easy show to watch but it reflects a world that doesn't bury the atrocities that happen within it. I don't think anyone watched that scene on Sunday and was "entertained" per se, but I have little doubt this plays an important role in Sansa's character and her future. She's not an idiot and is learning the hard truth of some of the politics of Westeros.

My question is why condemn this and not the torture or murder that has taken place on the show before? It seems strange to me that people would turn coat on a show that's never shied away from tackling some of the harder issues. Great fantasy shows and films have always woven in allegories that can be applied to our times and/or society. If this scene pushes people to think, respect and raise awareness, is that a bad thing? That's just my two cents, though. It should be interesting to see what affect this act will have on Sansa Stark and the rest of the season.

Game of Thrones airs Sunday nights at 9pm (EST) on HBO.

Do you think the scene in question is deserving of the controversy?

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1:55PM on 05/21/2015

Game of Thrones problem is one of accumulation

They spent way too much time on Theon's torture, turned a Cersei/Jamie sex scene into a rape scene and added a rape of Sansa that wasn't in the novels. It's true that the show has done worse, much worse even, than the scene of last week but that's more an argument against the show than it is for; while the earlier scenes felt like they were there to tell how horrible this universe is, the later scenes seems to be there because the show needs a shocking scene every two weeks or so.

I still
They spent way too much time on Theon's torture, turned a Cersei/Jamie sex scene into a rape scene and added a rape of Sansa that wasn't in the novels. It's true that the show has done worse, much worse even, than the scene of last week but that's more an argument against the show than it is for; while the earlier scenes felt like they were there to tell how horrible this universe is, the later scenes seems to be there because the show needs a shocking scene every two weeks or so.

I still watch the show and still enjoy it for the most part but I had to change channels during the Theon scenes of last year and while the scene of last week didn't go that far for me, it was yet another example of the bad I have to suffer through to be able to enjoy the good.
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12:10AM on 05/21/2015
Speaking as a woman, I really don't see the big deal. That's how women were treated back then, we were property. People need to get over this.
Speaking as a woman, I really don't see the big deal. That's how women were treated back then, we were property. People need to get over this.
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1:07AM on 05/21/2015
sad but true. the date preston gives below is shocking but probably accurate.
sad but true. the date preston gives below is shocking but probably accurate.
12:39PM on 05/21/2015
lol back then, lol as if this is a historically accurate show about a make believe land with dragons and magic hahahahaha
lol back then, lol as if this is a historically accurate show about a make believe land with dragons and magic hahahahaha
5:41PM on 05/20/2015

What I don't get,,,

IS why the fuck everyone is getting all upset over this ??? Like hello its game of thrones, a show where brutal is more then brutal. You didn't even see the rape wanta bitch bout rape go watch irreversible, I spit on your grave (1970) last house on the left, (1970) and Chaos. Then come back here and bitch about a rape scene that was nothing at all.
IS why the fuck everyone is getting all upset over this ??? Like hello its game of thrones, a show where brutal is more then brutal. You didn't even see the rape wanta bitch bout rape go watch irreversible, I spit on your grave (1970) last house on the left, (1970) and Chaos. Then come back here and bitch about a rape scene that was nothing at all.
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9:19AM on 05/20/2015
Was what occurred rape by the today's definition? Yes it was. However, even a few hundred years ago it wasn't considered rape for any man to have sex with hith his wife no matter how it occurred as it was considered part of their marital contract, meaning she basically consented to any and all sex with her husband from that point on. So given historical context, it was not rape by standing law in that time and place.

Rape does exist in Westeros though seeing as if you take a woman
Was what occurred rape by the today's definition? Yes it was. However, even a few hundred years ago it wasn't considered rape for any man to have sex with hith his wife no matter how it occurred as it was considered part of their marital contract, meaning she basically consented to any and all sex with her husband from that point on. So given historical context, it was not rape by standing law in that time and place.

Rape does exist in Westeros though seeing as if you take a woman without consent out of marriage it's usually punishable by death or life sentence to the wall as part of the Night's Watch.

However, its still a non issue because its a fictional rape of a fictional character in a fictional place and given there is rarely any problem with all the other unbelievable ugly stuff that happens in Westeros that's also illegal by modern law and understanding its yet another sign of social justice outrage and disconnect from reality.
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6:41PM on 05/20/2015
Nebraska was the first state that made it illegal to rape your wife and that was in 1976!
Nebraska was the first state that made it illegal to rape your wife and that was in 1976!
5:25AM on 05/20/2015

listen little children...

this show is for the educated mature audience not for fantasy dreaming little children. this isn't controversy, it's fiction for matured people. stop crying and whining and get the hell out playground and grow-up.
this show is for the educated mature audience not for fantasy dreaming little children. this isn't controversy, it's fiction for matured people. stop crying and whining and get the hell out playground and grow-up.
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9:37PM on 05/19/2015
It's true what you guys say about the selective outrage of certain female viewers. This lady over at Hitfix was so mad that Jaimie could have raped Cercei. She said it was out of character. When people reminded her about him trying to kill a little boy, she had the nerve to state that that was not so bad. And she called those of us not agreeing with her "rape-apologists". And this woman is actually a mother herself. Jaimie's handsomeness must have turned her brain off.
It's true what you guys say about the selective outrage of certain female viewers. This lady over at Hitfix was so mad that Jaimie could have raped Cercei. She said it was out of character. When people reminded her about him trying to kill a little boy, she had the nerve to state that that was not so bad. And she called those of us not agreeing with her "rape-apologists". And this woman is actually a mother herself. Jaimie's handsomeness must have turned her brain off.
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10:58PM on 05/19/2015
I meantioned this below in someones comment and its fitting for your reply as well. The majority of women fantasized about Khal Drogo so what he did was ok and not rape, but in this case it was because he is a monster that it so horrible apparently. But its par for the course with society. Look at 50 shades of grey and its success. That movie was more about an abusive relationship more than female erotica. The truth, and a lot of women don't want to admit it because it would hurt their whole
I meantioned this below in someones comment and its fitting for your reply as well. The majority of women fantasized about Khal Drogo so what he did was ok and not rape, but in this case it was because he is a monster that it so horrible apparently. But its par for the course with society. Look at 50 shades of grey and its success. That movie was more about an abusive relationship more than female erotica. The truth, and a lot of women don't want to admit it because it would hurt their whole "rape culture" argument, is that an alarming percentage actually have rape fantasies of some form. I'm not advocating for rape, its disgusting, but if you ask women anonymously you'd be shocked at the answers given.
9:25PM on 05/19/2015
I like how Sophie Turner was impressed by the sickness of the scene. She has more spunk than her character Sansa. Gives me more hope for her capacity to play jean Grey.
I like how Sophie Turner was impressed by the sickness of the scene. She has more spunk than her character Sansa. Gives me more hope for her capacity to play jean Grey.
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7:03PM on 05/19/2015
Why this is even a story makes me laugh. This is a fictional story with fictional characters set in a medieval time of brutality in every aspect of life. In case you missed it let me stress the FICTIONAL part of that. Tell me why we're supposed to feel so bad about this one thing that is or isn't rape when lets do a laundry list of other things that have happened:

-torture
-incest
-murder
-pedophilia
-beheading (in front of children)
-limbs cut off
-zombie attacks
-baby's kidnapped by
Why this is even a story makes me laugh. This is a fictional story with fictional characters set in a medieval time of brutality in every aspect of life. In case you missed it let me stress the FICTIONAL part of that. Tell me why we're supposed to feel so bad about this one thing that is or isn't rape when lets do a laundry list of other things that have happened:

-torture
-incest
-murder
-pedophilia
-beheading (in front of children)
-limbs cut off
-zombie attacks
-baby's kidnapped by the undead
-kids pushed out of tall towers being paralyzed
-kids being forced into battle
-kids being forced to kill
-children being forced to marry against their will
-abuse (spousal, child etc)
-castration (where are the men complaining?)


I'm sure the list can go on and on. Yet of course to the feminist agenda and its beta male sympathizers, this is the absolute worst thing in the world that could ever happen. Whether it happened in the real world or the fictional world isn't important to them. Everyone who thought of this scene should be tarred and feathered for even conceiving this scene. No one should ever be able to show a rape scene to show the brutality of someone because it bring up bad feelings and isn't "fair" to women. I got news for them, shut the fuck up and get over it. THIS ISN'T REAL. I'm sorry if it brings up emotions in victims of that terrible crime when watching this, but does a family effected by murder or incest or kidnapping making such a big stink over a piece of fiction.

This is story because an agenda wants to put itself at the forefront and its using this show to capitalize on it. I feel for rape victims it's not easy. I've dated two women in my life that have been victims of it. As a matter of fact I was dating one when when this subject came up on this show a year or two ago. The scene with Jamie and Cersei happened in the crypt or wherever it was. There was a huge hubbub over whether it was rape or not and if anyone thought it wasn't they were called out as a rape sympathizer or part of the rape culture. My girlfriend at the time basically echoed my sentiments. She said yeah it felt like it a little, but she read the books and knew it wasn't there. However she basically said people need to "Calm the fuck down its a tv show. If all these people who are trying to make this such a big deal on social media would go out and actually prove they're so outraged by marching or volunteering to help real victims instead of whining about tv shows, maybe some real change would happen. But no what you have is the typical whiny keyboard warrior who picks on other people that actually accomplish something instead of going out and accomplishing something themselves." I remember when she said that, I was almost floored but man did she lay it down there. And in truth she was right.

In my opinion was or wasn't it rape. I'm not sure either way. In the setting of this fictional world sex on the wedding night was expected. A lot of the time it happened at a far younger age than what Sansa currently is which is even more disgusting. But Sansa knew what was expected of her if she said "I do". That however doesn't give your husband carte blanche to rape you. One can argue whether this was rough sex or whether or not Sansa was relenting in purely fear. She never said no in the scene like Cersei did in the previous scene that got everyones panties in a bunch. Now was that because she was afraid, quite possibly. Was that because she figured relenting and submitting would just get it over with quicker, absolutely in my opinion. She did know it was her duty at the time, however I expect she was less than pleased how it went down. Arguments can be made either way on it I suppose. I for one could care less and you want to know why? In a show that has all I listed above and more, this was the least of my worries, and frankly I don't give a shit because its FICTIONAL and never happened.
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7:32PM on 05/19/2015
As a huge GoT fan (read all the books), I'm most definitely upset at this scene... it boils down to the fact that it's diverged so much from the source material and having this scene adds very little. It doesn't matter if you personally think it's rape or not, but if you're going to insert a shock and awe scene like that, it should probably serve a purpose. Does it have to serve a purpose one may ask? I believe it does because of the audience and the type of show it's supposed to be (given
As a huge GoT fan (read all the books), I'm most definitely upset at this scene... it boils down to the fact that it's diverged so much from the source material and having this scene adds very little. It doesn't matter if you personally think it's rape or not, but if you're going to insert a shock and awe scene like that, it should probably serve a purpose. Does it have to serve a purpose one may ask? I believe it does because of the audience and the type of show it's supposed to be (given how it's based on a serious book series). This isn't some b-list horror or sexploitation movie that can insert whatever meaningless rape scene it wants.... if you want to make quality programming, then make quality programming. Does the scene that diverges so much from the books necessitate for a rape (or forceful) sex scene add to the development of the character or plot? Not really... as the MarySue website so eloquently stated:
"In this particular instance, rape is not necessary to Sansa’s character development (she’s already overcome abusive violence at the hands of men); it is not necessary to establish Ramsay as a bad guy (we already know he is) " and then we already know that Theon is so broken that he isn't able to act despite wanting to.

I'm sure people have various reasons for not liking this scene....but the majority are NOT saying there's no place for rape scenes in media or storytelling. It's NOT because we don't realize it fictional....if you and your girlfriend can't realize that, then there's no point arguing
8:56PM on 05/19/2015
Oh trust me I've railed against most of the changes to the material compared to the source in the weekly review here. The only changes I've enjoyed over the years are the things like arya/tywin conversations or a little more bronn on screen. Nothing major just character development via conversations so we don't forget about them season to season. I complained about the last scene with Cersei because it wasn't how it was portrayed in the book. However those bitching about the "rape" here
Oh trust me I've railed against most of the changes to the material compared to the source in the weekly review here. The only changes I've enjoyed over the years are the things like arya/tywin conversations or a little more bronn on screen. Nothing major just character development via conversations so we don't forget about them season to season. I complained about the last scene with Cersei because it wasn't how it was portrayed in the book. However those bitching about the "rape" here shouldn't be complaining about the rape they should be complaining that int he books Sansa didn't even marry him in the first place. But the majority of the complaints I have read thus far is the typical rape culture agenda people complaining about the act commited against a fictional character by another fictional character. Just my opinion but if these people cared so much about the atrocities committed against women they'd be over in the middle east putting their money where their mouth is, instead of sitting behind a keyboard in their nice protected home complaining about what happened to a fantasy character in a fantasy story.
6:47PM on 05/19/2015
If I hadn't already stopped watching the show last season because of the OTHER unnecessary rape scene between Jamie and Cersei, I absolutely would have jumped ship now. At least now I know I'm not missing out on anything. These showrunners are garbage.
And so are all you disgusting dudebros who will inevitably give me thumbs down and reply to this with your sexist bullshit.
If I hadn't already stopped watching the show last season because of the OTHER unnecessary rape scene between Jamie and Cersei, I absolutely would have jumped ship now. At least now I know I'm not missing out on anything. These showrunners are garbage.
And so are all you disgusting dudebros who will inevitably give me thumbs down and reply to this with your sexist bullshit.
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7:03AM on 05/20/2015
you are so full of sexist bullshit! you disgusting patronizing dudebro, hahaaha
you are so full of sexist bullshit! you disgusting patronizing dudebro, hahaaha
+2
6:41PM on 05/19/2015
Not a single fuck was given. Let me know when this season actually gets interesting. If you think that is controversial, you clearly have never watched Spartacus.
Not a single fuck was given. Let me know when this season actually gets interesting. If you think that is controversial, you clearly have never watched Spartacus.
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5:06PM on 05/19/2015
It is a show.


It will feed Reek to help Sansa and kill Ramsey. People complaining about the slow speed think of it this way, its the calm before the storm. Last 4 episodes will be great and the next two seasons insane. People complaining about differences from book to show, the show cannot fit all the characters and stories from book 4 into 1 season and if it were 2 seasons it would be torturously slow. Some stories will be different then the book but in the end the main characters
It is a show.


It will feed Reek to help Sansa and kill Ramsey. People complaining about the slow speed think of it this way, its the calm before the storm. Last 4 episodes will be great and the next two seasons insane. People complaining about differences from book to show, the show cannot fit all the characters and stories from book 4 into 1 season and if it were 2 seasons it would be torturously slow. Some stories will be different then the book but in the end the main characters will make it to where they are going.
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4:56PM on 05/19/2015

This already happened.

I don't understand why everyone is up in arms about this all of the sudden. Did everyone forget the same basic thing happen to Khaleesi with Khal Drogo? She was marrying a guy she didn't want to same as Sansa but did it anyway. The only difference between Sansa and Khaleesi is that we WATCHED Khaleesis rape. We were all Theon Greyjoy in that scene, only I'm sure half the audience was masturbating to it.
I don't understand why everyone is up in arms about this all of the sudden. Did everyone forget the same basic thing happen to Khaleesi with Khal Drogo? She was marrying a guy she didn't want to same as Sansa but did it anyway. The only difference between Sansa and Khaleesi is that we WATCHED Khaleesis rape. We were all Theon Greyjoy in that scene, only I'm sure half the audience was masturbating to it.
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5:01PM on 05/19/2015
All great points, but you forget....Drogo is significantly more attractive than Ramsay. That makes it all different, apparently.

Cheers!
All great points, but you forget....Drogo is significantly more attractive than Ramsay. That makes it all different, apparently.

Cheers!
9:08PM on 05/19/2015
I forgot about the way the Khal Drogo scene went. Yeah thats the funny thing about it isn't it. The majority of women fantasized about Khal Drogo so what he did was ok and not rape, but in this case it was because he is a monster. But its par for the course with society. Look at 50 shades of grey and its success. That movie was more about an abusive relationship more than female erotica. The truth, and a lot of women don't want to admit it because it would hurt their whole "rape culture"
I forgot about the way the Khal Drogo scene went. Yeah thats the funny thing about it isn't it. The majority of women fantasized about Khal Drogo so what he did was ok and not rape, but in this case it was because he is a monster. But its par for the course with society. Look at 50 shades of grey and its success. That movie was more about an abusive relationship more than female erotica. The truth, and a lot of women don't want to admit it because it would hurt their whole "rape culture" argument, is that an alarming percentage actually have rape fantasies of some form. I'm not advocating for rape, its disgusting, but if you ask women anonymously you'd be shocked at the answers given.
4:31PM on 05/19/2015
I'll be honest, I have only seen 2 episodes of season 1 but I know a lot who watch it. My only comment would be, in such a violent show, what's the big deal? What makes this different from a movie that does the same and wins Oscars? It's meant to be horrible, meant to be hard to watch, why are people complaining? If a brutal character wed someone and their consummation was more unpleasant, borderline rape, is that really a surprise considering the nature of the show?
Again, as someone who has
I'll be honest, I have only seen 2 episodes of season 1 but I know a lot who watch it. My only comment would be, in such a violent show, what's the big deal? What makes this different from a movie that does the same and wins Oscars? It's meant to be horrible, meant to be hard to watch, why are people complaining? If a brutal character wed someone and their consummation was more unpleasant, borderline rape, is that really a surprise considering the nature of the show?
Again, as someone who has not seen it, I don't see the big deal knowing full well what this show is about regardless of not watching it.
As far as the writer issue goes, that I dunno. Get over it, I guess.
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4:50PM on 05/19/2015
I think it's because many movies and shows, and THIS show in particular, have a history of portraying rape as nothing more than a plot device. Think of Craster's Keep last season, where the bad guys are just sitting around drinking wine from skulls and raping people in the background - for no other reason than to drill us over the head with how BAD these BAD GUYS are. As if the horrendous mutiny didn't convince us of that already. Or think of the controversies surrounding Dany being raped by
I think it's because many movies and shows, and THIS show in particular, have a history of portraying rape as nothing more than a plot device. Think of Craster's Keep last season, where the bad guys are just sitting around drinking wine from skulls and raping people in the background - for no other reason than to drill us over the head with how BAD these BAD GUYS are. As if the horrendous mutiny didn't convince us of that already. Or think of the controversies surrounding Dany being raped by Drogo in season 1, and Jaime raping Cersei last season, and how neither of those incidents were really ever acknowledged or had the aftermath of those events dealt with at all.

It's not as simple as saying, "Well, a lot of bad stuff happens in this show, and rape is just another one!" Rape is an extremely sensitive topic, and it doesn't help when our entertainment furthers shitty narratives about it. If the writers of a show are going to portray rape, then they better make sure they do their homework and do EVERYTHING possible to make sure that they don't screw things up. And there are SO MANY ways to screw it up when dealing with rape in fiction.

So it IS a big deal. Like I said in my comment below, everyone is certainly entitled to disagree with the controversy and outrage about it. But it's important to understand WHY people are upset, and actually have a discussion about it. Casually dismissing this like so many people on this thread are doing (not you, just in general) isn't helpful to anyone.
4:25PM on 05/19/2015
Yeah I don't see how anyone can POSSIBLY say that this scene wasn't rape. Sure, Sansa probably knew what was going to happen. Yes, she made the choice to marry Ramsay in the first place. But to say that it's NOT rape is the literal definition of victim blaming and basically saying she was "asking for it". There is such a thing as marital rape. And even beyond that, she was crying (both because of the pain AND the emotional trauma), Ramsay ripping the dress off her when she was timidly taking
Yeah I don't see how anyone can POSSIBLY say that this scene wasn't rape. Sure, Sansa probably knew what was going to happen. Yes, she made the choice to marry Ramsay in the first place. But to say that it's NOT rape is the literal definition of victim blaming and basically saying she was "asking for it". There is such a thing as marital rape. And even beyond that, she was crying (both because of the pain AND the emotional trauma), Ramsay ripping the dress off her when she was timidly taking her gloves off is a clear indication of rape, her facial expression was one of horror, and if none of that convinces you...the music itself and the tone of the entire scene was as ominous and disturbing as it could be.

It's certainly reasonable to disagree with the outrage that this scene caused, but don't go so far as to say this scene wasn't rape. It was. That's not even up for debate.
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4:58PM on 05/19/2015
That's ridiculous. Saying that it wasn't necessarily rape is not the same as victim blaming and saying she was "asking for it. This isn't a binary position.

During the historical time period which GoT has co-opted for its fantasy setting, the wife knew that when she married the man, she was expected to consummate the relationship on the wedding night. Clearly, Sansa knew this and was prepared to go through with it.

Your problem really seems to be the how Ramsay went about it. As I asked
That's ridiculous. Saying that it wasn't necessarily rape is not the same as victim blaming and saying she was "asking for it. This isn't a binary position.

During the historical time period which GoT has co-opted for its fantasy setting, the wife knew that when she married the man, she was expected to consummate the relationship on the wedding night. Clearly, Sansa knew this and was prepared to go through with it.

Your problem really seems to be the how Ramsay went about it. As I asked another poster, if he had tucked his hand under her head and made sweet love to her, would it have then not been rape?

Cheers!
5:10PM on 05/19/2015
How is that ridiculous? By saying it's not rape, there are only 2 other options available:

1) It was 100% consensual, or
2) She was asking for it, and it was her fault to begin with (which, honestly, is such a shitty mindset that I shouldn't even be including it here. But many other users here are basically saying that, so I'm somewhat sarcastically including it here).

Clearly, consummating a marriage with a monster who most fans say is worse than Joffrey WON'T be a consensual encounter.
How is that ridiculous? By saying it's not rape, there are only 2 other options available:

1) It was 100% consensual, or
2) She was asking for it, and it was her fault to begin with (which, honestly, is such a shitty mindset that I shouldn't even be including it here. But many other users here are basically saying that, so I'm somewhat sarcastically including it here).

Clearly, consummating a marriage with a monster who most fans say is worse than Joffrey WON'T be a consensual encounter. So if that option is out, the only thing left is that it's her fault, and so she must've been asking for it. I mean, what else is there?

And okay, let's look at this statement of yours: "Your problem really seems to be the how Ramsay went about it." To answer that - yes, my problem is 100% about how the rapist went about raping an innocent victim. I mean, you're trying to diminish and dismiss "how he went about it", when that's literally THE most important thing about this scene. Sansa didn't want to have sex with that man, no matter what. By forcing sex on her when she didn't want it, he raped her. End of story.

To clear it up even more, it was marital rape. Yes, that type of thing would've happened countless times in the historical period that GoT is clearly drawing inspiration from, but that doesn't negate what happened with Sansa. It was rape. There's nothing to gain by trying to say otherwise.
5:27PM on 05/19/2015
Okay, let's work within your terms for a moment.

1. Sansa knew what was going to happen, if not "how". At what point in time did Sansa refuse based on informed consent?

2. If she knew what was required on the wedding night, wasn't the act of marriage itself consent in this case?

"How the rapist went about raping his innocent victim"

You are playing at semantics here in an attempt to favor rhetoric over logic. We could just as easily say

"How the husband went about consummating
Okay, let's work within your terms for a moment.

1. Sansa knew what was going to happen, if not "how". At what point in time did Sansa refuse based on informed consent?

2. If she knew what was required on the wedding night, wasn't the act of marriage itself consent in this case?

"How the rapist went about raping his innocent victim"

You are playing at semantics here in an attempt to favor rhetoric over logic. We could just as easily say

"How the husband went about consummating his marriage to his consenting wife."

Is this statement not a correct one?

The reason I bring up the time period is to make the point that to marry at this time was to give consent.
Saying "yes" to marriage was synonymous with saying "yes" on the wedding night. This was not a surprise to the newly wedded wife, or to Sansa in this case -- she knew it and willingly went through with both actions.

So now consent is also marital rape?

There is something to gain by saying otherwise, which is to point out the immense hypocrisy of those who believe that comfort and consent are synonymous, therefore rape, who are improperly placing the context of the show into modern day Oberlin College terms, and who are okay when fictional characters are throwing fictional kids out of a tower window, but are somehow offended by this new fictional turn of events.

Cheers!


5:48PM on 05/19/2015
1) How exactly would Sansa have gone about refusing to Ramsay? He had all the power there. He was the one whose father was Warden of the North. He was the one who had an entire castle full of his own men. Sansa practically had no choice BUT to go along with it. Yet that still doesn't mean it was consensual. She had no choice in the matter, and that's rape.

2) No, the simple act of marriage is NEVER consent to unwanted sex. Again, marital rape is an actual act that occurs both in real life
1) How exactly would Sansa have gone about refusing to Ramsay? He had all the power there. He was the one whose father was Warden of the North. He was the one who had an entire castle full of his own men. Sansa practically had no choice BUT to go along with it. Yet that still doesn't mean it was consensual. She had no choice in the matter, and that's rape.

2) No, the simple act of marriage is NEVER consent to unwanted sex. Again, marital rape is an actual act that occurs both in real life and fiction. So just because Sansa was wed to Ramsay, that means Ramsay can use her whenever and however he'd like? And she should just be expected to go along with it, because...marriage? That's simply not true. Marriage can't be used as some kind of blanket protection against rape. Spouses are raped by their spouses all the time, especially when it comes to arranged marriages.

In any case, I'm not really sure why you're so intent on pointing out "hypocrisy" among people who are offended by this scene, because that's not even the point of my comments here. I'm simply saying that this was unquestionably a rape scene. Hell, the writer of the episode himself basically says the same thing in this interview. He certainly doesn't seem to think it was consensual AT ALL:

[link]

As I keep saying, you are 100% within your rights to disagree with the controversy that this scene has erupted. But it's also certainly possible to make that point WITHOUT twisting the narrative to fit an agenda and pretend that this somehow wasn't rape. It was. And to say otherwise is doing FAR more harm than good.

Cheers!
6:08PM on 05/19/2015
1. So, she knew the moment she married him she would have to have sex with him, no matter how he went about it? Is that what you are saying?

And yet she married him anyway.

2. For the time period, sure it was. It was both common and expected. You can argue about how wrong that is or isn't, but it certainly wasn't rape, particularly since the wife knew it was going to happen and married the man anyway. For the time, that was giving consent and the wife knew it.

Again, we can talk
1. So, she knew the moment she married him she would have to have sex with him, no matter how he went about it? Is that what you are saying?

And yet she married him anyway.

2. For the time period, sure it was. It was both common and expected. You can argue about how wrong that is or isn't, but it certainly wasn't rape, particularly since the wife knew it was going to happen and married the man anyway. For the time, that was giving consent and the wife knew it.

Again, we can talk about how the sexual act was depraved and rough and disturbing and wrong, but screaming rape in this case is cranking the knob to an 11 and breaking it off.

My larger issue of course is with those who are done with GoT. How is this any worse than any of the other crap that's happened on the show, yet this off-screen scene is somehow the straw that broke the camel's back? Absurd.

I'm not twisting the narrative, I'm simply presenting it for what it was rather than getting all outraged and projecting third-wave feminism onto a show that takes place during what is equivalent to the latter Middle Ages.

Per the link, yes, Sansa made a choice to marry him. That's been my point all along. What he did to her was clearly not right, but it was also "not rape" given the time period.

Cheers!
6:50PM on 05/19/2015
1) She didn't know how depraved and sadistic Ramsay is when she first agreed to Littlefinger's proposal of marriage, though. Hell, Littlefinger himself didn't even know. It was only during that dinner where Ramsay exercised his control over Theon/Reek that Sansa began to realize the monster that he is, and by then it was FAR too late to alter the marriage plans. So I definitely am not a fan of the implication you're throwing out there, as if she knew exactly what Ramsay would do to her yet she
1) She didn't know how depraved and sadistic Ramsay is when she first agreed to Littlefinger's proposal of marriage, though. Hell, Littlefinger himself didn't even know. It was only during that dinner where Ramsay exercised his control over Theon/Reek that Sansa began to realize the monster that he is, and by then it was FAR too late to alter the marriage plans. So I definitely am not a fan of the implication you're throwing out there, as if she knew exactly what Ramsay would do to her yet she married him anyway. That's getting dangerously close to victim-blaming and saying she was asking for it, which ironically was the first thing you had an issue with in my original comment.

2) You keep attempting to hide behind the "time period" that this show is set in, as if that has any bearing on what is and isn't rape. I don't know if you're assuming that I'm talking about the legal qualifications of modern-day rape, but I'm not. Rape is rape. Moral issues like that transcend whatever societal norms are present in the world of GoT, especially when the show is using those moral issues as a way to comment on our OWN world.

And I really don't understand why you're bringing up the people who are done with this show. That particular aspect of this discussion has NOTHING to do with anything I've talked about here. You're clearly bringing in a lot of baggage into this, and that's certainly having an impact on why we can't seem to see eye-to-eye here. I think you're trying to make some kind of statement on this controversy at large, while I'm simply disagreeing with the people below this post who are convinced that this somehow wasn't portrayed as rape. No wonder we seem to be going in circles here.
7:58PM on 05/19/2015
1. I neither stated nor implied that she knew "exactly" what Ramsey would be doing to her, but she did know that she would be having sex with him on her marriage night, did she not?

Blaming the victim would be to say she had it coming or some such nonsense. What I'm saying is she consciously made a choice to go through with something she would be uncomfortable with, it just turned out to be more uncomfortable than even she expected.

Any implication here is simply your own projection. My
1. I neither stated nor implied that she knew "exactly" what Ramsey would be doing to her, but she did know that she would be having sex with him on her marriage night, did she not?

Blaming the victim would be to say she had it coming or some such nonsense. What I'm saying is she consciously made a choice to go through with something she would be uncomfortable with, it just turned out to be more uncomfortable than even she expected.

Any implication here is simply your own projection. My umbrage with your initial post was that you made a binary argument out of something that is much more complex.

2. No, you simply don't understand the argument. At the time, marriage was synonymous with sex on the wedding night. Saying yes to one was in fact saying yes to the other, and this was understood...and not just for forced marriages. It was considered a duty in fact. This was not rape because consent was given, it just happened to occur during the wedding vows not during the act...which is correct for the time period.

I'm bringing it up because half my post is about addressing you directly and the other half is about making a broader point to those who may be reading along. This is why I am clearly separating my direct points to you from the paragraph discussing the larger context. Do you think commenting on the Internet is really just for the person you are commenting to?

There is no baggage, we simply disagree.

Cheers!
4:17PM on 05/19/2015
A fictional character was raped in a time and place that never existed, and I'm fine with that. "When I read that scene, I kinda loved it. I love the way Ramsay had Theon watching. It was all so messed up." ~Sophie Turner

Now if you want to know how a little bitch would feel about the scene, see below.

A fictional character was raped in a time and place that never existed, and I'm fine with that. "When I read that scene, I kinda loved it. I love the way Ramsay had Theon watching. It was all so messed up." ~Sophie Turner

Now if you want to know how a little bitch would feel about the scene, see below.

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3:51PM on 05/19/2015
I have no problem with the scene as written. The problem I have is that it is not how George wrote it, or that he even wrote it at all. This is NOT Game of Thrones, its some tv writers fantasy of what he thinks Game of Thrones should be. George was being gracious but he could have well as just said, this is no longer Game of Thrones, and left it at at that.

Basically the writers are going to do their own thing, and hopefully get close to what George gave them as a summary for his ending.
I have no problem with the scene as written. The problem I have is that it is not how George wrote it, or that he even wrote it at all. This is NOT Game of Thrones, its some tv writers fantasy of what he thinks Game of Thrones should be. George was being gracious but he could have well as just said, this is no longer Game of Thrones, and left it at at that.

Basically the writers are going to do their own thing, and hopefully get close to what George gave them as a summary for his ending. That is why I will not be watching GoT after this season, because it is no longer GoT just some dumb ass medieval soap opera.
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2:47PM on 05/19/2015

For those saying it's "not rape"

YOU are the reason that rape happens with very little consequences. YOU are the "boys will be boys" people. There was absolutely NOTHING consensual about that scene. She was visibly crying and her dress was literally ripped away from her unwillingly. Seriously, GO DO THAT to your wife or your girlfriend and tell me that she doesn't file charges against you.

And sure, you're not Ramsey -- So obviously, that makes it okay because we already know Ramsey is a sick fuck. So no worries.
YOU are the reason that rape happens with very little consequences. YOU are the "boys will be boys" people. There was absolutely NOTHING consensual about that scene. She was visibly crying and her dress was literally ripped away from her unwillingly. Seriously, GO DO THAT to your wife or your girlfriend and tell me that she doesn't file charges against you.

And sure, you're not Ramsey -- So obviously, that makes it okay because we already know Ramsey is a sick fuck. So no worries. "Ramsey will be Ramsey"! Ho-Hum!

You can defend the scene all you want for reasons of character development or whatever bullshit makes you sit through a rape scene with a smile, but DO NOT come here and DE-VALUE the horror that rape victims go through when they are too powerless to utter that simple word, "No."

Seriously, from what I can understand from your baffling indecency, the only thing that would have proved to you otherwise is if she had said "no". She didn't, so she clearly must have been cool with it, right?

Give me a break. You people should be ashamed of yourselves.
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3:07PM on 05/19/2015
Is there no Paul Feig article you can go defend? If not why don't you take yourself off and watch Pitch Perfect 2. The scene is part of a drama series and if you can't deal with that then stop watching. This particular type of abhorrent act is not new to Game of Thrones so why become a keyboard warrior now?
Is there no Paul Feig article you can go defend? If not why don't you take yourself off and watch Pitch Perfect 2. The scene is part of a drama series and if you can't deal with that then stop watching. This particular type of abhorrent act is not new to Game of Thrones so why become a keyboard warrior now?
3:27PM on 05/19/2015
Gosh, you really cut me to the quick there! I'm so embarrassed. You're right, I should never have a contrary opinion to the norm. How silly of me to think I could voice my opinion on a comment board!

You know, now that you mention it, Sansa was totally asking for it, wasn't she? I mean, she showed up to the wedding. And that dress! Heck, if she didn't want to get raped, she probably should've thought about wearing a stronger dress, amiright? One that wouldn't rip so easily? Yeah,
Gosh, you really cut me to the quick there! I'm so embarrassed. You're right, I should never have a contrary opinion to the norm. How silly of me to think I could voice my opinion on a comment board!

You know, now that you mention it, Sansa was totally asking for it, wasn't she? I mean, she showed up to the wedding. And that dress! Heck, if she didn't want to get raped, she probably should've thought about wearing a stronger dress, amiright? One that wouldn't rip so easily? Yeah, you're right. She totally needed it to happen. It was the only way to make us feel sorry for her. Cos I mean, only her father died. And her entire family. And she just left a super abusive relationship only to fall into another. With someone we knew was a monster, but she didn't. So, I mean, she should've expected it. She deserved it for not assuming it was the inevitable.

But no, you missed my point before -- you got too all up in arms because I was defending a fictional woman's rights, and by extension the rights of women everywhere, to notice that I didn't say I was against the use of rape in the show.

My problem, if you'd bothered to read my post, was NOT that Sansa was raped. That sucked and I didn't like that either -- but no, my problem -- my POINT -- was that people should NOT be so dismissive about rape. They should not assume that just because the word "no" is not uttered that it's okay. That she was asking for it or she wanted it or was in any way, shape, or form open to it.

She was not. Neither are women everywhere. Neither are men who get raped for that matter. Rape is not fun for anyone. It's a part of life for many -- and for many on the show of Game of Thrones. No, my problem wasn't the show, my problem is YOU. Because you're the reason rape is allowed to happen in real life.

3:29PM on 05/19/2015
Well it is NOT rape because they are actors! It is not like I caught a home video and am perfectly OK with what happened, it is a series on television. Maybe I am the reason dragons are still burning and killing people also! GTFO!
Well it is NOT rape because they are actors! It is not like I caught a home video and am perfectly OK with what happened, it is a series on television. Maybe I am the reason dragons are still burning and killing people also! GTFO!
4:07PM on 05/19/2015
Oh, look at you! How clever! I see what you did there. It's totally comparable -- Comparing my issue, which is a very real-world and awful issue that many people face on a daily basis, with one that is inherently fictional. Cos clearly, I think GoT is a documentary.

Sophie Turner was NOT raped in real life, so everything is okay! All is well in the world. Gosh, I'm so relieved. Thank you so much for clarifying what I clearly did not understand.

Ah, Bruce, God is shaking his
Oh, look at you! How clever! I see what you did there. It's totally comparable -- Comparing my issue, which is a very real-world and awful issue that many people face on a daily basis, with one that is inherently fictional. Cos clearly, I think GoT is a documentary.

Sophie Turner was NOT raped in real life, so everything is okay! All is well in the world. Gosh, I'm so relieved. Thank you so much for clarifying what I clearly did not understand.

Ah, Bruce, God is shaking his head at you, my friend.

But anyway, here's the thing -- The beauty of the non-fictional universe you and I inhabit is the freedom of differing opinions and perspectives. You can watch GoT and enjoy the unnecessary rape of a beloved character and see it as merely what it is: fictional (ergo: no harm done). I can watch GoT and feel saddened by an unnecessary rape of a beloved character and equate it to real life issues, even while at the same time magically understanding that it is actually fiction.

You are perfectly free to consider me a complete dipshit for thinking that this should be viewed in any real-world context at all and I am a moron for combining life experiences with relatable fictional ones. Meanwhile, I am free to think that you're a horrible human being for dismissing rape in any context, fictional or otherwise, as something that is in any way necessary or serious.

Either way, you're not going to change your mind about me and I'm not going to change my mind about you.

So really, what are we doing here? Just spouting bullshit, I guess. Life is meaningless, rape means nothing, we all end up six feet under in the end.
4:49PM on 05/19/2015
So...

A little boy gets thrown out a tower window...meh. But a despicable character roughly and violently consummating his marriage with consent from his new wife is where you draw the line?

Your argument is basically that this rough sex, even consented, equals rape? She knew what was going to happen the moment she married him. She never attempted to stop him, she never said no, etc.

So if he had laid her down lovingly and whispered sweet nothings to her, would it have then not been
So...

A little boy gets thrown out a tower window...meh. But a despicable character roughly and violently consummating his marriage with consent from his new wife is where you draw the line?

Your argument is basically that this rough sex, even consented, equals rape? She knew what was going to happen the moment she married him. She never attempted to stop him, she never said no, etc.

So if he had laid her down lovingly and whispered sweet nothings to her, would it have then not been rape? I'm trying to figure out your logic here.

Also, this show takes place in a latter Medieval (albeit fantasy) period. Do you not think this was common during the actual, historical period? Consummation post-wedding night was implicit with marriage. And the thing with Theon, while depraved, was also not uncommon...Henry VIII had witnesses to his consummation with Catherine, for God's sake.

So we can say it was disturbing, that it was deranged, that it was depraved..but it wasn't necessarily rape, particularly within the context of the historical time period reflected in the culture of the show's setting.

Cheers!
5:12PM on 05/19/2015
@ Bad_Ashe -- I'm not sure you're entirely clear on what consent is. I sort of get the impression you're under the assumption that not saying no automatically means yes.

I'll agree with you that she consented to be his wife and I'll even give you the credit of agreeing that she fully understood that meant she had to have sex with him.

What I will not agree with is that she agreed in any way shape or form that she was open to how it went down. I don't believe for one second she
@ Bad_Ashe -- I'm not sure you're entirely clear on what consent is. I sort of get the impression you're under the assumption that not saying no automatically means yes.

I'll agree with you that she consented to be his wife and I'll even give you the credit of agreeing that she fully understood that meant she had to have sex with him.

What I will not agree with is that she agreed in any way shape or form that she was open to how it went down. I don't believe for one second she believed or accepted that she would have her dress ripped violently from her body, have her thrown over the railing of her bed and then be taken from behind while someone she loathed and knew her whole life was forced to watch. Whether or not it was commonplace for lords or King's to have people present while they relations with their wives is irrelevant.

I'm no historian, so I can't give any credence to your claim that Henry VIII had witnesses -- Maybe he did! Heck, he probably did. But in the context of this show, that's not normal behavior -- and you're not meant to think it is normal behavior. They don't at any point imply that this is meant to be okay.

If he laid her down and whispered sweet nothings to her and she then moved into it or accepted it or acted upon it of her own accord, then yes, I would call that "not rape". In this context, she had no choice. She could not say no. I do not think she would say yes, however, and that is the major difference.

So here, let me throw out to you a scenario: You meet this girl, right? You two hit it off, you have a great night, and she invites you back to her place to have sex. You accept. You enter a small bachelor apartment and her creepy roommate Bill (who happens to be the bully that beat you up as a kid) is standing in the corner in the shadows. Just watching. She then tells you to strip off all of your clothes so you can get down to business, but you're not cool with it now cos Bill is there. She then overpowers you, rips the clothes from your body, kicks you onto the couch, and rams a strap on into your butt before you can do anything.

But it's cool, cos you consented to it, right? You knew that going back to her place meant she was going to have sex with you. She didn't tell you what kind of sex or what the context or environment would be.

I don't think you'd be feeling all "not raped" about that situation. I think you'd be feeling pretty damn violated. And I think Sansa, at the conclusion of her "consensual sex" with her deranged husband is probably feeling more violated then high about it.
5:48PM on 05/19/2015
@IAmJack

There's a lot of posturing and soapboxing here, so let me ask you a few clarifying questions:

1. Given the time period, did Sansa not know she was to consummate her marriage on her wedding night?

2. Assuming she did know, was she not giving consent by saying yes to the marriage?

Of course not, as I mentioned, having Theon there was depraved and uncomfortable, but not unprecedented given the "War of the Roses-like" time period of the show.

Well even if he had made sweet
@IAmJack

There's a lot of posturing and soapboxing here, so let me ask you a few clarifying questions:

1. Given the time period, did Sansa not know she was to consummate her marriage on her wedding night?

2. Assuming she did know, was she not giving consent by saying yes to the marriage?

Of course not, as I mentioned, having Theon there was depraved and uncomfortable, but not unprecedented given the "War of the Roses-like" time period of the show.

Well even if he had made sweet love to her, she still wouldn't have had a choice. Given the time period, she made her decision the moment she married him, which she could have not done in the first place.

So what I want to know is at what point in time did she refuse consent?

In your scenario, did I say no? Did I refuse compliance at any point in time? Did I see Bill and say "I'm outta here."?

Did I at any time verbally or physically refuse consent?

But let's say I decided to go with it, didn't refuse consent, and then after the fact felt violated? Is that rape or regret?

Cheers!
10:06PM on 05/19/2015
Wow that really escalated quickly. @IAmJack600 First of all let me apologize for calling you a dipshit, for me that is out of character to result to name calling. I edited my words earlier. Clearly this is an important topic in the real world, I know I deal with it often in my line of work. But my interpretation of events on a fictional show (whether we agree or disagree with that scene being considered rape, even though there is not a court of law that could convict Ramsey for rape in that
Wow that really escalated quickly. @IAmJack600 First of all let me apologize for calling you a dipshit, for me that is out of character to result to name calling. I edited my words earlier. Clearly this is an important topic in the real world, I know I deal with it often in my line of work. But my interpretation of events on a fictional show (whether we agree or disagree with that scene being considered rape, even though there is not a court of law that could convict Ramsey for rape in that scene no matter how disturbing it was) has absolutely no bearing on the real world. For you to say WE are the reason rape is committed or that there are very little consequences for rape all for not thinking a scene from GoT isn't rape is utterly ridiculous. I do not think that Jaime Lannister is a murderer on a fictional show because he pushed Bran from a window because the boy lived, so should I be responsible for all the attempted murderers who don't get convicted in a court of law. Obviously this is an emotional topic for you, might I suggest changing your programming to Disney XD or something along those lines if you can't separate stories told for shock value, which clearly GoT aims to do, versus real world tragedies.
2:21PM on 05/19/2015
This is good bloody press. Sansa losing her virginity is something that has been building for that character forever. Basically, since the pilot when you really think about it. Within the context of the show, all this does is FINALLY get me more seriously on Sansa's side and even more against Ramsey. That is good fucking writing. What are people complaining about?
This is good bloody press. Sansa losing her virginity is something that has been building for that character forever. Basically, since the pilot when you really think about it. Within the context of the show, all this does is FINALLY get me more seriously on Sansa's side and even more against Ramsey. That is good fucking writing. What are people complaining about?
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3:57PM on 05/19/2015
It's not Georges fucking writing, and that is not good enough for me.
It's not Georges fucking writing, and that is not good enough for me.
3:59PM on 05/19/2015
Dont worry guize Theon helps her escapeby jumping out of winterfell and running towards Stannis. Also JonSnow dies at end of season
Dont worry guize Theon helps her escapeby jumping out of winterfell and running towards Stannis. Also JonSnow dies at end of season
3:59PM on 05/19/2015
Dont worry guize Theon helps her escapeby jumping out of winterfell and running towards Stannis. Also JonSnow dies at end of season
Dont worry guize Theon helps her escapeby jumping out of winterfell and running towards Stannis. Also JonSnow dies at end of season
2:05PM on 05/19/2015
I would hardly call that a rape. Uncomfortable? Sure. But rape? This was her wedding night so Sansa knew she was about to get taken, the only surprise being in front of Greyjoy. Besides the act took place off camera with only voices heard, so hardly the worst thing they have shown. My biggest complaints is the lack of anything great going on this season, this season is really dragging on.
I would hardly call that a rape. Uncomfortable? Sure. But rape? This was her wedding night so Sansa knew she was about to get taken, the only surprise being in front of Greyjoy. Besides the act took place off camera with only voices heard, so hardly the worst thing they have shown. My biggest complaints is the lack of anything great going on this season, this season is really dragging on.
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1:46PM on 05/19/2015
The criticism of this scene is a bit silly to me. First of all this is game of thrones, something terrible is always happening. Secondly,if you've been watching the show what were you expecting to happen? You should've seen this coming for the past few episodes. The argument that this is different from the book also hold little water as it does happen, just not to Sansa. To be fair the scene in the book is far more horrifying and graphic, especially given that we don't actually see
The criticism of this scene is a bit silly to me. First of all this is game of thrones, something terrible is always happening. Secondly,if you've been watching the show what were you expecting to happen? You should've seen this coming for the past few episodes. The argument that this is different from the book also hold little water as it does happen, just not to Sansa. To be fair the scene in the book is far more horrifying and graphic, especially given that we don't actually see anything in the show. Then there are those who say the scene didn't serve a purpose and/or reversed the character development of sansa. We have no idea how this event is going to play into the rest of the series or sansas character so arguing one way or the other doesn't make sense at this point. On top of that are those claiming the camera focusing on theon made him out to be the true victim, which is ridiculous. It was a way of showing us how atrocious the situation was without showing us the actual act and potentially setting up theon's redemption and possibly helping sansa down the line. Was the scene uncomfortable to watch and unsettling? Yes, but that's the point, in fact the whole point of the show is that it's a fantasy but not a fairy tale. Save the outrage for something real.
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1:53PM on 05/19/2015
Very well put and couldn't agree more.
Very well put and couldn't agree more.
1:58PM on 05/19/2015
Well said (both times :0)
Well said (both times :0)
3:17PM on 05/19/2015
Thrice, well said.
Thrice, well said.
1:20PM on 05/19/2015

In which blogosphere feminists lose it...

What cracks me up is the blatant hypocrisy on the part of those reacting so negatively to this, particularly at places like The Mary Sue who seem to have been collectively overcome by the vapors and need to head for the fainting couch.

Let's look at this:

When Ramsay, a clearly despicable and morally corrupt character, violates Theon's person, psychology, sense of self, and presented sexuality, in various ways, we hear nothing but crickets...yet when this aforementioned despicable
What cracks me up is the blatant hypocrisy on the part of those reacting so negatively to this, particularly at places like The Mary Sue who seem to have been collectively overcome by the vapors and need to head for the fainting couch.

Let's look at this:

When Ramsay, a clearly despicable and morally corrupt character, violates Theon's person, psychology, sense of self, and presented sexuality, in various ways, we hear nothing but crickets...yet when this aforementioned despicable character sexually violates Sansa, the blogosphere feminists lose their collective shit.

I'm not even sure why this is being categorized as a rape scene...it was consensual. She knew the marriage would be consummated on her wedding night. Was it still disgusting? Sure. Weird and unsettling? Absolutely. But really, this is hardly the most disturbing, disgusting, or weird thing the show has ever done...or that the character of Ramsey has ever done for that matter.

Also, does anybody remember this outrage when Drogo consummated his marriage in Season One? There has been some revisionist outrage, but at the time very few people had anything to say about it. Why is that, I wonder?

Cheers!
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1:45PM on 05/19/2015
I started watching the show after the third season. I remember seeing Drogo rape Daenerys and being so confused about why so many people, women in particular loved Drogo and their relationship. Collective outrage as far as I'm concerned.
I started watching the show after the third season. I remember seeing Drogo rape Daenerys and being so confused about why so many people, women in particular loved Drogo and their relationship. Collective outrage as far as I'm concerned.
2:01PM on 05/19/2015
@Star Lord

All I ask for is logical consistency from the feminist outrage crowd, and yet I never get it. I'm sure the small detail that Drogo is considerably better looking than Ramsay had nothing to do with it.

Cheers!
@Star Lord

All I ask for is logical consistency from the feminist outrage crowd, and yet I never get it. I'm sure the small detail that Drogo is considerably better looking than Ramsay had nothing to do with it.

Cheers!
1:03PM on 05/19/2015
The tone of this show is dark and people complain about the rape scene.Was it hard to watch? Yes it was. You really can't expect a lighthearted lollipop unicorn bubblegum type of ending or tone with GoT.
The tone of this show is dark and people complain about the rape scene.Was it hard to watch? Yes it was. You really can't expect a lighthearted lollipop unicorn bubblegum type of ending or tone with GoT.
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12:58PM on 05/19/2015
There always will be militant warriors on the internet who are never satisfied with a product based on another medium. Of these misguided individuals, there's also a fraction that hate witnessing horrible events, especially if they include the abuse or mistreatment of women. The scene in question is hard to watch, and rightfully so. There's no celebration in the moment; Sansa's innocence was brutally taken away from her. It's a method of character development that will establish her role in
There always will be militant warriors on the internet who are never satisfied with a product based on another medium. Of these misguided individuals, there's also a fraction that hate witnessing horrible events, especially if they include the abuse or mistreatment of women. The scene in question is hard to watch, and rightfully so. There's no celebration in the moment; Sansa's innocence was brutally taken away from her. It's a method of character development that will establish her role in future episodes, and undoubtedly make her stronger.
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