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The top ten most pirated movies of the year

12.22.2010

Movie news is slow as everyone is currently relaxing for the holidays, so we're turning to yearly lists and such, and one I thought it would be interesting to take a look at would be the most pirated films of the year.

The list was compiled by TorrentFreak, and you might be surprised with a couple of titles, though most are expected. What is a pirate's taste in movies?

1. Avatar

Downloads - 16,580,000 Gross - $2,779,551,867

2. Kick-Ass

Downloads - 11,400,000 Gross - $96,130,432

3. Inception

Downloads - 9,720,000 Gross - $825,408,570

4. Shutter Island

Downloads - 9,490,000 Gross - $294,803,014

5. Iron Man 2

Downloads - 28,810,000 Gross - $621,751,988

6. Clash of the Titans

Downloads - 8,040,000 Gross - $493,214,993

7. Green Zone

Downloads - 7,730,000 Gross - $94,875,650

8. Sherlock Holmes

Downloads - 7,160,000 Gross - $523,029,864

9. The Hurt Locker

Downloads - 6,850,000 Gross - $48,612,915

10. Salt

Downloads - 6,700,000 Gross - $175,190,850

I was a little surprised to see GREEN ZONE and SALT make the cut, but the rest really are no surprise. These are the kinds of numbers a studio will then trot out and say "oh look, we lost $280M in ticket sales for IRON MAN 2" or "there go $140M in DVD sales for SHERLOCK HOLMES." But the fact is, this is BS, and I'm willing to be there are relatively few pirates who download a movie rather than seeing it in the theater, as often they'll do both, and a similarly small amount of would download it instead of buying the DVD. Just because you think SALT is worth watching because it's free, does not mean you think it's worth watching if it's $10. And if you wanted to buy the DVD for $20? Chances are you already saw it in theaters and really, really loved it.

It's hard to tell what these numbers really mean. There are losses from piracy yes, but they are far smaller than the studios would have you believe. Remember that campaign where they'd have a set painter talk to you about how he was getting fired because you pirated? That always pissed me off. How about you cut your star's salary by half a million to pay for 10 people doing his job, or don't spend $10M in promotional costs stamping Iron Man on the side of Pepsi products.

Extra Tidbit: When is it justified to pirate? Ever? Never? We've had this debate before, but it's always fun.
Source: TorrentFreak

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2:58PM on 12/26/2010

sad

information should be free for everyone, whether music movies art or what have you. its difficult for people to wrap their heads around this idea. the social and philosophical caveats and ramifications of this could fill a thesis paper so ill leave it at that. its ok, people, our planet does not need money to go round!!
information should be free for everyone, whether music movies art or what have you. its difficult for people to wrap their heads around this idea. the social and philosophical caveats and ramifications of this could fill a thesis paper so ill leave it at that. its ok, people, our planet does not need money to go round!!
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2:36AM on 12/26/2010

Shitty list...

At least half of that list = total shitty movies...without counting the overrated ones (Inception, anyone?).
At least half of that list = total shitty movies...without counting the overrated ones (Inception, anyone?).
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12:08AM on 12/25/2010
Pirate.


Everything.
Pirate.


Everything.
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9:05PM on 12/25/2010
No....just no.
No....just no.
2:51PM on 12/26/2010
yes. yes. yes.
yes. yes. yes.
+0
7:43AM on 12/24/2010
I'd much rather see a film in a theater as opposed to watching a DVD. And if I liked the movie enough to want the DVD, I'll buy it. Of course, I'm a geek, so I like having the packaging on my shelf. Some flicks will even get a sequel green lit because of DVD sales, and if the first was good enough to warrant a sequel, I'll do my part.
I'd much rather see a film in a theater as opposed to watching a DVD. And if I liked the movie enough to want the DVD, I'll buy it. Of course, I'm a geek, so I like having the packaging on my shelf. Some flicks will even get a sequel green lit because of DVD sales, and if the first was good enough to warrant a sequel, I'll do my part.
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1:54PM on 12/23/2010
So the most downloaded movies were still some of the highest grossing of the year, and some of all-time. Way to hurt your argument movie industry
So the most downloaded movies were still some of the highest grossing of the year, and some of all-time. Way to hurt your argument movie industry
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3:02AM on 12/23/2010

Kick Ass > Inception!

I'm happy Kick Ass was so far up there, I thought it was the best movie of the year (I thought Avatar was about as good as Wild Wild West). Anyway, I don't download / pirate movies. But from a societal standpoint, I guess the biggest negative is that the money doesn't get put back into the economy if people pirate movies. Other than that, pirate away.
I'm happy Kick Ass was so far up there, I thought it was the best movie of the year (I thought Avatar was about as good as Wild Wild West). Anyway, I don't download / pirate movies. But from a societal standpoint, I guess the biggest negative is that the money doesn't get put back into the economy if people pirate movies. Other than that, pirate away.
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2:52PM on 12/26/2010
kick ass was a laugh out loud joke. utterly horrible movie
kick ass was a laugh out loud joke. utterly horrible movie
12:01AM on 12/23/2010

For the record...

I saw Avatar and Iron Man 2 in the theaters and I downloaded Inception and Salt because I missed them in the theaters. My wife downloaded Shutter Island and Sherlock Holmes but I didn't watch them with her.
I saw Avatar and Iron Man 2 in the theaters and I downloaded Inception and Salt because I missed them in the theaters. My wife downloaded Shutter Island and Sherlock Holmes but I didn't watch them with her.
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11:51PM on 12/22/2010

I wish they'd tell us

how these movies performed in different countries, assuming people aren't using proxies and they can tell who is downloading what. If it is mostly people overseas downloading these movies then people need to chill because some movies only play in theaters overseas for about a couple of weeks -if at all- and then they are gone. Most of the time I watch movies in theaters but my wife will download movies because she can't be bothered to spend an hour putting on makeup and then taking the bus to
how these movies performed in different countries, assuming people aren't using proxies and they can tell who is downloading what. If it is mostly people overseas downloading these movies then people need to chill because some movies only play in theaters overseas for about a couple of weeks -if at all- and then they are gone. Most of the time I watch movies in theaters but my wife will download movies because she can't be bothered to spend an hour putting on makeup and then taking the bus to go to the theater while I stay at home and look after the baby. And on top of that there's a lot of direct to DVD movies that don't even come out where we live so renting them isn't an option. Seriously, the only movies I've downloaded and watched myself were movies that for whatever reason I missed in the theaters. It's the video stores that miss out with all these downloads but, again, in some places video stores are few and far between. Doesn't make it right but there you are.
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10:50PM on 12/22/2010

The studios are milking it.

If I really want to see a movie I will go and pay for it & see it in theaters. The only time I download movies online is because I'm mildly interested but I wouldn't pay 12-15 bucks to go see it. 1st off the quality of the movies online are usually pretty crappy. The studios are trying to justify there huge stars salaries.
If I really want to see a movie I will go and pay for it & see it in theaters. The only time I download movies online is because I'm mildly interested but I wouldn't pay 12-15 bucks to go see it. 1st off the quality of the movies online are usually pretty crappy. The studios are trying to justify there huge stars salaries.
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+0
10:29PM on 12/22/2010

alucard_467

I completely expected there to be some adverse reaction to my statements. I had hoped that the responses would be presented in a manner that indicated the author has some level of intelligence. Unfortunately, all I received were unsupported arguments and immature insults from self-entitled children like Alucard_467.
Did you really just try to support your argument by claiming your “fan” status entitles you to claim partial ownership of a film? You said “Films are made for an audience, hardly
I completely expected there to be some adverse reaction to my statements. I had hoped that the responses would be presented in a manner that indicated the author has some level of intelligence. Unfortunately, all I received were unsupported arguments and immature insults from self-entitled children like Alucard_467.
Did you really just try to support your argument by claiming your “fan” status entitles you to claim partial ownership of a film? You said “Films are made for an audience, hardly personal property”. Uh, WHAT! Please explain this novel and confounding right of possession in further detail. Seriously, I'm really interested in hearing your eloquent remarks on the state of copyright law and personal property in 2010. Let's hear it Alucard_457...put that 8th grade education to work. You're either incredibly naive or really dumb...probably both.
Why you are taking this so personally? Perhaps it's because you know that I'm right. Mother jokes....what are you 12?
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11:08PM on 12/22/2010
hahaha, mother jokes. Most jurisdictions in the US follow the common law legal framework, this means that the definition of theft would probably be something like "the dis-honest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intention to permanently deprive", when you break this definition down into its component parts you would realize that there is a subjective aspect to the dis-honest appropriation part of the definition which is an integral part to the crime of theft. Without the
hahaha, mother jokes. Most jurisdictions in the US follow the common law legal framework, this means that the definition of theft would probably be something like "the dis-honest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intention to permanently deprive", when you break this definition down into its component parts you would realize that there is a subjective aspect to the dis-honest appropriation part of the definition which is an integral part to the crime of theft. Without the prerequisite parts, no court will find any downloader/streamer guilty of theft. The precedents start, in England anyway, with the case of "Oxford v. Moss", which states that information could not be deemed to be intangible property and therefore was incapable of being stolen. that being said, the only person in the whole scenario that is guilty of theft is the ripper, not the hapless person who stumble upon the said information on the internet, where information is free. now we all know that the downloader is not a "hapless" party, but the blame cannot be placed on their shoulders. Dare i raise the example of "robin hood" who, i feel mose of these pirates fancy themselves to be, where stealing from the rich (the crime) and distributing to the poor(the effect)is similar to what this discussion is about. We, the viewers, are the effect, we could never be liable for any crime, note the word crime, we may now be liable under precedent under the civil riaa cases, but none of them have reached the Supreme Court. These arguments have been around since the invention of portable media, books, cassettes, videotape etc. and they will never go away. With the invention of the internet the scale of piracy was blown to horrific proportions, but it is essentially the same argument, and thats why the riaa could only get to sue americans. The copyright advocates are trying to cross boarders to litigate against the millions of downloaders across the globe, hence such treaties as nafta etc. but they would fail in their action because the rules regarding intelectual property and public domain differ in each jurisdiction. so where does that leave the american downloader? unless there is a wealthy enough litigant who is willing to take it to the Supreme Court, pardon the vernacular, up shit creek without a paddle. But that is only in civil court, in criminal court there can be no liability. besides, you cannot expect cogent, thoughtful arguments if you end your point by calling a great majority of he readers "idiots".
8:28AM on 12/23/2010
Stiggs you are such a tool. I was not claiming that just because films are available to download online for free, everyone is entitled to do so. I pay money for my cinema tickets, and I have a sizeable dvd collection. I also have a good number of films on my hard drive downloaded. They include a large number of films which are not available on dvd in my country. Also the your mothers a whore line was a Sean Connery reference which as expected went riiiiiiight over your head. I'm sorry you
Stiggs you are such a tool. I was not claiming that just because films are available to download online for free, everyone is entitled to do so. I pay money for my cinema tickets, and I have a sizeable dvd collection. I also have a good number of films on my hard drive downloaded. They include a large number of films which are not available on dvd in my country. Also the your mothers a whore line was a Sean Connery reference which as expected went riiiiiiight over your head. I'm sorry you expected a fully formed essay as a response, and if this were an argument of any relevance or significance I would have been happy to oblige. However, this is an internet message board, and not really to be taken too seriously. You are annoyingly stupid though I must admit.
9:46AM on 12/23/2010
I don't understand the "I own lots of DVD's and see some movies in the theater so it's okay" argument.

Muveadict - I do appreciate a good message board essay. However, just because it isn't legally theft according to global law doesn't make it ethically right. People who can't obtain/see/afford certain movies are not like the starving woodspeople of Robin Hood. Watching movies is a luxury, not a necessity. Movie makers are businessmen, not tyrant kings.

But out of curiosity, what other
I don't understand the "I own lots of DVD's and see some movies in the theater so it's okay" argument.

Muveadict - I do appreciate a good message board essay. However, just because it isn't legally theft according to global law doesn't make it ethically right. People who can't obtain/see/afford certain movies are not like the starving woodspeople of Robin Hood. Watching movies is a luxury, not a necessity. Movie makers are businessmen, not tyrant kings.

But out of curiosity, what other luxuries should people be entitled to steal... er, obtain without paying for?
10:46AM on 12/23/2010
lol, red, hoss, i never said that it is an entitlement, i'm simply pointing out that this discussion is moot because the legality of the situation. It is an inherent trait within all human beings to take advantage of a situation, hence we have an abuse of process, not just with movies on the web, but with everything free, and forbiden fruit is sweetest they say, so the enticement to obtain immorally begotten things is also part of the human psyche. Red, i am sure that at some point in your life
lol, red, hoss, i never said that it is an entitlement, i'm simply pointing out that this discussion is moot because the legality of the situation. It is an inherent trait within all human beings to take advantage of a situation, hence we have an abuse of process, not just with movies on the web, but with everything free, and forbiden fruit is sweetest they say, so the enticement to obtain immorally begotten things is also part of the human psyche. Red, i am sure that at some point in your life you have abused some form of freedom, it wont be movies probably because it is your profession and you have utmost respect for film, I don't know ya man so i wont cast any negativity your way, but when i was in college we used to take a bottle to the kfc on campus to take extra catsup to heat with hot dogs that was a staple in the apartment. why? because we were broke a lot of the time and catsup tastes good on hotdogs. was it wrong? probably, someone worked their ass off to make it, kfc paid for it, and the paying customers probably deserved it. Was it missed? doubtfully. Was it theft? doubtfully, seeing as the manager acquiesced to our taking it. Now apply that analogy to the topic at hand, the whole subject boils down to subjectivity, you think jim cameron is fussing over the pirating of avatar? i doubt, he may not like it, but he sure as hell isnt clamoring the hallways leading the charge against it, he knows his shit is bankable and safe. now look at hurt locker, the producers know they were going out on a limb with the subject matter of the film and yet did the movie as is. sure they can moan and bitch about piracy till hell freezes over, but the fact of the matter is the movie, whilst being a masterpiece in it's own right, was slow at times and not very riveting, so the sales were down, but the sales would not have been any more spectacular had there been no piracy, because of the subject matter of the film. It only ran a week here, and no right thinking store owner in this country is going to bring more than 5 copies of the movie here. why? because it was that boring to the mainstream public. and that was my initial point, that these figures are akin to counting chickens before they hatch, they cause the producers to live in a world of pipe dreams and fantasy when the truth is staring them in the face, you movie was boring and unappealing to the masses and thusly didn't do as well in the box office. to boost ticket sales the producers would have had to incur higher marketing and distribution costs, which would probably not have impacted to greatly on revenue. why? word of mouth, i am sure that many people came out of the cinema saying "HUrt locker as ok", with reactions like that do you think the ticket sales will skyrocket? I am not saying you, the film buff, but the regular movie going public. i think, and this is only my opinion here, that dvd/blu ray sales were actually bolstered by piracy because i do know a few movie buffs that saw it pirated and bought a copy, movie goers who did not manage to catch it in the cinema because either it didn't run long if at all. when you apply the economies of scale and the element of public opinion to many movies the truth of the matter is they will do poorly at the box office. Now when you look at the reverse, a world with no piracy, there would be massive fallout. how? lets look at 'hurt locker' again, it was a well done, thought provoking movie that did poorly at the box office, but it was pirated 6.8 million times, thats a percentage of 6.8 million people that like it and know when the production company starts another project they would probably go to the cinema to see it, that is the return on a quality product.
-2
9:36PM on 12/22/2010

Yes, It's Theft But...

The "downloading is theft" groups sidestep an important fact that applies to both music and movie downloading; most of what the serious downloaders copy, they never watch. I know someone that admits he has downloaded hundreds of movies and dozens of TV series but he's only watched 5-10% 0f them. People that download thousands of songs are the same. It's as if they never copied them and they just take up hard drive space.
Maybe it's a conspiracy by Seagate and the other drive companies to
The "downloading is theft" groups sidestep an important fact that applies to both music and movie downloading; most of what the serious downloaders copy, they never watch. I know someone that admits he has downloaded hundreds of movies and dozens of TV series but he's only watched 5-10% 0f them. People that download thousands of songs are the same. It's as if they never copied them and they just take up hard drive space.
Maybe it's a conspiracy by Seagate and the other drive companies to sell more storage...
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+1
9:07PM on 12/22/2010
These numbers mean nothing without separating them by release, most of them are probably from people downloading multiple CAMs trying to find one that's not terrible quality.

As for those posters saying there's no justifying downloading, find me a legal way of seeing/owning Ricky 6, Son Of Hitler, uncut workprints etc, or any number of TV series that aren't on VHS/DVD.
These numbers mean nothing without separating them by release, most of them are probably from people downloading multiple CAMs trying to find one that's not terrible quality.

As for those posters saying there's no justifying downloading, find me a legal way of seeing/owning Ricky 6, Son Of Hitler, uncut workprints etc, or any number of TV series that aren't on VHS/DVD.
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6:57PM on 12/22/2010

Does anyone know where I can find a good copy of Yogi Bear?

I need something to take a shit on.
I need something to take a shit on.
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6:34PM on 12/22/2010
Just to add, these exact same debates happened when the VHS recorder first came out.
Just to add, these exact same debates happened when the VHS recorder first came out.
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6:29PM on 12/22/2010
The ones I have downloaded:

Avatar - Also saw it three time in theaters, and own both versions of the BluRay.

Inception - Also saw it twice in theaters and own the BluRay.

Sherlock Holmes - I had no intention of ever seeing this movie (the trailers were shit IMO). Skipped it in theaters and didn't care if I ever saw it for free on cable. One day I decided to download a DVDrip, and I fucking loved it. Now I own it on BluRay, and will be the first in line to see the sequel in theaters.
The ones I have downloaded:

Avatar - Also saw it three time in theaters, and own both versions of the BluRay.

Inception - Also saw it twice in theaters and own the BluRay.

Sherlock Holmes - I had no intention of ever seeing this movie (the trailers were shit IMO). Skipped it in theaters and didn't care if I ever saw it for free on cable. One day I decided to download a DVDrip, and I fucking loved it. Now I own it on BluRay, and will be the first in line to see the sequel in theaters.
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+7
6:02PM on 12/22/2010

These debates have opened my eyes...

nah, not at all, im gonna go download Black Swan.
nah, not at all, im gonna go download Black Swan.
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5:47PM on 12/22/2010
I've participated in these debates before and I'm a bit tired to go into it now but it's not stealing if you buy the thing anyway. I frequently go see a movie in the theater, get a bootleg to tied me over until the dvd release, then buy it when it comes out. Most do the same thing except for the people who wouldn't buy it anyway. Notice how much money all these most downloaded movies made. Look at the top movie on the list. I don't think Avatar was really hurting from all those downloads
I've participated in these debates before and I'm a bit tired to go into it now but it's not stealing if you buy the thing anyway. I frequently go see a movie in the theater, get a bootleg to tied me over until the dvd release, then buy it when it comes out. Most do the same thing except for the people who wouldn't buy it anyway. Notice how much money all these most downloaded movies made. Look at the top movie on the list. I don't think Avatar was really hurting from all those downloads and I'm willing to bet all those downloads are from people who did ultimately pay for it it some form or another.
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5:44PM on 12/22/2010

Stiggs...

Well in the next ten years im guessing we'll have seen another few Avatar's, all of which will have made a lot of people many millions of dollars, and all of which will be as heavily pirated as the first. Also, if you consider yourself a film fan, I wonder if you found yourself in the situation where your only access to films is via torrents, how would you react? Also films are made for an audience, hardly personal property and your mothers a whore.
Well in the next ten years im guessing we'll have seen another few Avatar's, all of which will have made a lot of people many millions of dollars, and all of which will be as heavily pirated as the first. Also, if you consider yourself a film fan, I wonder if you found yourself in the situation where your only access to films is via torrents, how would you react? Also films are made for an audience, hardly personal property and your mothers a whore.
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-14
5:05PM on 12/22/2010

IT'S STEALING!

I love all of these justifications for stealing another individuals personal property. Here are just a few inane responses supporting piracy from this comment section:
1. I can't afford it so it's OK to steal.
2. I don't want to wait for the film to play in my region.
3. I already paid to see it in the cinema.
4.Piracy HELPS promote films so they do better at the box office (That's the best one).
5. Everyone else is doing it.
6. I'm not hurting anyone except for THE MAN. Down with big
I love all of these justifications for stealing another individuals personal property. Here are just a few inane responses supporting piracy from this comment section:
1. I can't afford it so it's OK to steal.
2. I don't want to wait for the film to play in my region.
3. I already paid to see it in the cinema.
4.Piracy HELPS promote films so they do better at the box office (That's the best one).
5. Everyone else is doing it.
6. I'm not hurting anyone except for THE MAN. Down with big business!
Keep it up you greedy, entitled idiots. We'll see what happens to the film industry in the next 10 years.
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5:26PM on 12/22/2010
watching/downloading isn't stealing, the only way the riaa won and cases is because the standard of the burden of proof in a civil matter is a lot lower than that of a criminal matter. you may as well sue the news paper for profiting by putting you in the paper. you may as well start censoring the internet because this is the ultimate example of freedom of information. once it it ripped and published then the ripper is the thief, and he is then liable for all the losses incurred because he
watching/downloading isn't stealing, the only way the riaa won and cases is because the standard of the burden of proof in a civil matter is a lot lower than that of a criminal matter. you may as well sue the news paper for profiting by putting you in the paper. you may as well start censoring the internet because this is the ultimate example of freedom of information. once it it ripped and published then the ripper is the thief, and he is then liable for all the losses incurred because he would then become substantially the direct and operative cause of any lost revenue. Cherish this freedom of information because once you start to whittle it down you just might wake up one day with no internet.
5:29PM on 12/22/2010
What will happen to the film industry in the next 10 years? You have a crystal ball or something?
What will happen to the film industry in the next 10 years? You have a crystal ball or something?
5:29PM on 12/22/2010
and just to clarify, accusing someone of an offence that is punishable by incarceration is a crime, its called deformation of character. please try not to do it.
and just to clarify, accusing someone of an offence that is punishable by incarceration is a crime, its called deformation of character. please try not to do it.
4:57PM on 12/22/2010
The only one I downloaded was "The Hurt Locker" and then I bought the DVD. One thing people never seem to mention in the ongoing "is pirating OK?" debate is that torrents give you access to movies that are nearly impossible to acquire. I occasionally download a newer movie (never Cams though, those are gay), but torrenting has given me access to films like;
1. Kinski Panini
2. The Perfume of the Lady in Black
3. What? (Roman Polanski film)
4. The Brave (Johnny Depp's directorial debut)
And
The only one I downloaded was "The Hurt Locker" and then I bought the DVD. One thing people never seem to mention in the ongoing "is pirating OK?" debate is that torrents give you access to movies that are nearly impossible to acquire. I occasionally download a newer movie (never Cams though, those are gay), but torrenting has given me access to films like;
1. Kinski Panini
2. The Perfume of the Lady in Black
3. What? (Roman Polanski film)
4. The Brave (Johnny Depp's directorial debut)
And many other films I would have never been able to see without downloading. While I do frequently download movies I saw all 10 of these films (except Clash of the Titans) in the theatre, bought 2 on DVD, and plan on buying another...Case in point; I support pirating movies.
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4:54PM on 12/22/2010
The only one I downloaded was "The Hurt Locker" and then I bought the DVD. One thing people never seem to mention in the ongoing "is pirating OK?" debate is that torrents give you access to movies that are nearly impossible to acquire. I occasionally download a newer movie (never Cams though, those are gay), but torrenting has given me access to films like;
1. Kinski Panini
2. The Perfume of the Lady in Black
3. What? (Roman Polanski film)
4. The Brave (Johnny Depp's directorial debut)
And
The only one I downloaded was "The Hurt Locker" and then I bought the DVD. One thing people never seem to mention in the ongoing "is pirating OK?" debate is that torrents give you access to movies that are nearly impossible to acquire. I occasionally download a newer movie (never Cams though, those are gay), but torrenting has given me access to films like;
1. Kinski Panini
2. The Perfume of the Lady in Black
3. What? (Roman Polanski film)
4. The Brave (Johnny Depp's directorial debut)
And many other films I would have never been able to see without downloading. While I do frequently download movies I saw all 10 of these films (except Clash of the Titans) in the theatre, bought 2 on DVD, and plan on buying another...Case in point; I support pirating movies.
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+8
3:19PM on 12/22/2010
poor Kick-Ass it deserved way more money than Avatar
poor Kick-Ass it deserved way more money than Avatar
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3:12PM on 12/22/2010

To Kilar...

You're quite arrogantly making the assumption that all people who download movies have the option to pay for these movies. Many people download because it is the only way they will get to see these films, either because they wont be released in their country or they are simply to poor to afford dvd's or cinema tickets. Future film makers that come from poor backgrounds will no doubt depend heavily on torrents in the same way that kids used to sneak into movie theatres. Tarantino stole a copy of
You're quite arrogantly making the assumption that all people who download movies have the option to pay for these movies. Many people download because it is the only way they will get to see these films, either because they wont be released in their country or they are simply to poor to afford dvd's or cinema tickets. Future film makers that come from poor backgrounds will no doubt depend heavily on torrents in the same way that kids used to sneak into movie theatres. Tarantino stole a copy of Rum Punch when he was a teenager, in 1997 he adapts that same book into Jackie Brown and gives Elmore Leonard the 13 dollars personally. No stealing isn't always right but it's not as black and white as you make it out to be.
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4:21PM on 12/22/2010
I know I have had to watch films online that I would have LOVED to see in a theater mainly because I can't afford to go.
I know I have had to watch films online that I would have LOVED to see in a theater mainly because I can't afford to go.
2:54PM on 12/22/2010

Machine

Pepsi products? How much do they pay to have that annoying Devil ad cover my screen?
Pepsi products? How much do they pay to have that annoying Devil ad cover my screen?
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2:51PM on 12/22/2010
I'm planning on being a world class film maker and as long as I make a couple of million on every project the rest can download away.
I'm planning on being a world class film maker and as long as I make a couple of million on every project the rest can download away.
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2:33PM on 12/22/2010
Only one I downloaded was The Hurt Locker and then I bought it. I only pirate as I live in NZ and it takes fricking ages for smaller movies to come here.
Only one I downloaded was The Hurt Locker and then I bought it. I only pirate as I live in NZ and it takes fricking ages for smaller movies to come here.
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2:32PM on 12/22/2010
- Avatar - Saw in theater in 3D. Own the blu ray. Downloaded it as well so I could watch it in a room without a blu ray player. I'm not buying a lesser quality copy of a movie I already own, just to be able to watch it in a different room. Blow me.
- Kick Ass - Downloaded it. Loved it. BOUGHT the blu ray after liking it so much.
- Inception - saw it twice in theaters. downloaded to watch it again. Getting the blu ray for Xmas.
- Shutter Island - Netflix rental
- Iron Man 2 - Saw it
- Avatar - Saw in theater in 3D. Own the blu ray. Downloaded it as well so I could watch it in a room without a blu ray player. I'm not buying a lesser quality copy of a movie I already own, just to be able to watch it in a different room. Blow me.
- Kick Ass - Downloaded it. Loved it. BOUGHT the blu ray after liking it so much.
- Inception - saw it twice in theaters. downloaded to watch it again. Getting the blu ray for Xmas.
- Shutter Island - Netflix rental
- Iron Man 2 - Saw it in theaters. Hated it. Downloaded it to watch again. Still shitty.
- Clash of the Titans - Saw it in 3D theaters. Hated it. Downloaded it to watch again. Still shitty.
- Green Zone - never saw it
- Sherlock Holmes - Netflix.
- Hurt Locker - Downloaded it, because our theater wasn't carrying it (they did end up carrying it later after it won best picture). Movie wasn't that great anyway.
- Salt - Looked like crap, never saw it.



I guess out of this list Hurt Locker was the only movie I truly screwed anyone out of money on. I suppose there's a bit of irony there, since that was the movie producers were suing pirates over this year. Our local theater didn't carry it, but truthfully, I probably wouldn't have went to it in the theater either. If I hadn't downloaded it, I would have watched it from Netflix, and that wouldn't really have done anything for them financially either.

I think the key here is that 99% of the movies I have personally downloaded, I have already seen, bought, or wouldn't have paid for in the first place. More options for viewers will translate to more opportunities for studios to make some money.




Disclaimer: I may have made this all up. Or maybe I didn't.
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-9
2:31PM on 12/22/2010
Pirating is stealing. You are taking a product for free.
Yes it's easy to pirate a movie, easier than goign to a cinema, easier than dowloading legally. But that doesn't make it right.
It's easier to walk next door and steal your neighbours food than it is to walk to the store and buy it, but that don't make it right.
To Captain Planet: No, a theif won't give you $40. But you're looking at it wholistically. You pay 40 bucks and you recieve a dvd or blu ray. Transaction done. If you then
Pirating is stealing. You are taking a product for free.
Yes it's easy to pirate a movie, easier than goign to a cinema, easier than dowloading legally. But that doesn't make it right.
It's easier to walk next door and steal your neighbours food than it is to walk to the store and buy it, but that don't make it right.
To Captain Planet: No, a theif won't give you $40. But you're looking at it wholistically. You pay 40 bucks and you recieve a dvd or blu ray. Transaction done. If you then downloaded it illegally, that's another transaction, an illegal one.
If you go to the store and buy milk, that's a transacation. You can't then go to the store and just steal milk under the presumtion you might buy milk next time you're in. Just because you pay for milk once doesn't entitle you to take milk from the store anytime you please, or even once, for free.

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2:43PM on 12/22/2010
We are not taking products. The product stays wherever it is. We copy it.
We are not taking products. The product stays wherever it is. We copy it.
3:58PM on 12/22/2010
Montes - What a truly sad, messed up way of thinking that is. You can only say that because it is not a tangible item. Duplicating something that isn't yours and keeping it for yourself without permission might be a different kind of stealing, but clearly it is still stealing.

Montes - What a truly sad, messed up way of thinking that is. You can only say that because it is not a tangible item. Duplicating something that isn't yours and keeping it for yourself without permission might be a different kind of stealing, but clearly it is still stealing.

4:23PM on 12/22/2010
Your argument is flawed because we are not talking about a physical object. The people that say download a movie they already have on blu-ray but want to watch it on their computer that can't play blu-ray. By your argument this is wrong, but I would disagree. What is happen is really no different than if it were a CD and you were just burning an extra copy to keep in the car, or even if theoretically you had or knew someone with blu-ray on their computer and could rip the file and downsample it
Your argument is flawed because we are not talking about a physical object. The people that say download a movie they already have on blu-ray but want to watch it on their computer that can't play blu-ray. By your argument this is wrong, but I would disagree. What is happen is really no different than if it were a CD and you were just burning an extra copy to keep in the car, or even if theoretically you had or knew someone with blu-ray on their computer and could rip the file and downsample it to standard def and put it on a DVD.

There can be legitimate use of pirated movies. But even aside from those not all stealing is equal. An illegally downloaded movie costs the movie studio nothing out of pocket the way stealing a carton of milk or any physical product actually cost that store money.
4:25PM on 12/22/2010
Supertramp - please proofread and repost so I can make sense of your ramblings.
Supertramp - please proofread and repost so I can make sense of your ramblings.
5:05PM on 12/22/2010
if you read a book from the library is it stealing? how about if you go to the library every day ad copied a few pages and went home and compiled these pages so after a period of time you have a copy of the book, is that stealing? the book is still in the library yet you have all the information in another place. you must have stolen it. but who would know? only if you then reprint it, and try to sell it on the corner would anyone have any proof of theft. similarly, students must go to jail for
if you read a book from the library is it stealing? how about if you go to the library every day ad copied a few pages and went home and compiled these pages so after a period of time you have a copy of the book, is that stealing? the book is still in the library yet you have all the information in another place. you must have stolen it. but who would know? only if you then reprint it, and try to sell it on the corner would anyone have any proof of theft. similarly, students must go to jail for theft, for every student learns something from the net, books films art etc. we go museums and take pictures, are we thieves? hell, there are people selling prints of the mona lisa, are they thieves? we are after all talking about information, an intangible product and just to be really clear, in different jurisdictions the law of theft is different. by this logic, that taking information is theft, then hearing a song through a window is theft, or does it become theft when you enjoy it?
5:21PM on 12/22/2010
@redjoe84:
Nope, downloading is not stealing. Downloading is downloading. Stealing implies that the owner of said thing doesn't keep it afterwards. Whoever that person is, (s)he still has it after.

It even isn't "duplicating" because the movies are ripped, meaning they're stripped of case covers, menus, subtitles, other audio languages, extras and all the other stuff. It's just the movie converted to x264 or xvid. Duplicating means reproducing all of the above to end up with a twin-sister of
@redjoe84:
Nope, downloading is not stealing. Downloading is downloading. Stealing implies that the owner of said thing doesn't keep it afterwards. Whoever that person is, (s)he still has it after.

It even isn't "duplicating" because the movies are ripped, meaning they're stripped of case covers, menus, subtitles, other audio languages, extras and all the other stuff. It's just the movie converted to x264 or xvid. Duplicating means reproducing all of the above to end up with a twin-sister of said product.
7:01PM on 12/22/2010
It's amazing what people will say to try to justify something that we all know is wrong.
It's amazing what people will say to try to justify something that we all know is wrong.
7:11PM on 12/22/2010
It's also amazing the distortion of the meaning of words like "pirating", "downloading" and "stealing" to justify something YOU think is wrong.
It's also amazing the distortion of the meaning of words like "pirating", "downloading" and "stealing" to justify something YOU think is wrong.
2:23PM on 12/22/2010
I can see why people are actually in a way encouraged to pirate sometimes. I'll admit to having downloaded a movie or two, but not anymore just because I don't care. But now when the studios are actually making it harder to legally see a movie I think it only makes the piracy thing worse. I'm mainly referring to the method of releasing a DVD/Blu-ray for sale only and holding off on the rentals for a month. It doesn't help that Netflix's new releases are impossible to get for 3 months after
I can see why people are actually in a way encouraged to pirate sometimes. I'll admit to having downloaded a movie or two, but not anymore just because I don't care. But now when the studios are actually making it harder to legally see a movie I think it only makes the piracy thing worse. I'm mainly referring to the method of releasing a DVD/Blu-ray for sale only and holding off on the rentals for a month. It doesn't help that Netflix's new releases are impossible to get for 3 months after release unless you have enough time to plan exactly when to return your current DVD's. During the time frame when the movies are out to buy only, you know there's going to be high quality DVD/Blu-ray rips out there to download. So why the hell would you shell out $25 for a blu-ray of a movie you're unsure of when you can just download it for free?
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+2
2:17PM on 12/22/2010
I think it´s justified when I´ve already seen it in the theatre and pre-ordered the blu-ray.. Or when it´s not playing in your fucking country for another 3-4 months because of this stupid fucking staggered release system. They only have themselves to blame.
I think it´s justified when I´ve already seen it in the theatre and pre-ordered the blu-ray.. Or when it´s not playing in your fucking country for another 3-4 months because of this stupid fucking staggered release system. They only have themselves to blame.
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2:09PM on 12/22/2010
avatar-saw twice in theaters
KA-saw in theater then downloaded
inception-saw 3 times in theater, downloaded
shutter island-download only
iron man 2-saw twice in theaters then downloaded
COTT-saw in theaters then downloaded
Greenzone-not interested
SH- saw twice in theaters then downloaded
hurt locker-redbox maybe?
salt-might download some day
avatar-saw twice in theaters
KA-saw in theater then downloaded
inception-saw 3 times in theater, downloaded
shutter island-download only
iron man 2-saw twice in theaters then downloaded
COTT-saw in theaters then downloaded
Greenzone-not interested
SH- saw twice in theaters then downloaded
hurt locker-redbox maybe?
salt-might download some day
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1:59PM on 12/22/2010

Ok down this list I go

Avatar - Have not sceen
Kick Ass - watched in theater, downloaded, bought BR
Inception - Theater, downloaded, redbox, bought
Shutter Island - downloaded turned off about 30 min into the film and then deleted
Iron Man 2 - theater, bought, riped for Ipode
Clash of the Titans - theater
Green Zone - not scene
Sherlock Holmes - Downloaded, bought BR
The Hurt Locker - Refused to watch due to Voltage Pictures legal stance.
Salt - Streamed it over a free sight.

What does this mean? I don't
Avatar - Have not sceen
Kick Ass - watched in theater, downloaded, bought BR
Inception - Theater, downloaded, redbox, bought
Shutter Island - downloaded turned off about 30 min into the film and then deleted
Iron Man 2 - theater, bought, riped for Ipode
Clash of the Titans - theater
Green Zone - not scene
Sherlock Holmes - Downloaded, bought BR
The Hurt Locker - Refused to watch due to Voltage Pictures legal stance.
Salt - Streamed it over a free sight.

What does this mean? I don't know, to me it seems like I spend more money then not though.
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1:37PM on 12/22/2010
Kinda expected Scott Pilgrim to end up near the top of this list.
Kinda expected Scott Pilgrim to end up near the top of this list.
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1:34PM on 12/22/2010

It's More Like...

...kicking the tires for some.

You want to test drive the movie for a while and gauge it's rewatchability before spending $25 on the legit copy.

The plus side of the 'test drive' copies are that they don't have all the studio crap and threats on them - meaning you can get to your experience so much faster.

In the end, if you find you can watch the movie multiple times and still enjoy it, then you buy the DVD or Blu-Ray.
...kicking the tires for some.

You want to test drive the movie for a while and gauge it's rewatchability before spending $25 on the legit copy.

The plus side of the 'test drive' copies are that they don't have all the studio crap and threats on them - meaning you can get to your experience so much faster.

In the end, if you find you can watch the movie multiple times and still enjoy it, then you buy the DVD or Blu-Ray.
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+4
1:33PM on 12/22/2010
The studios want to work with an old business model forever but the truth is the culture is changing. It's no longer a single product for a single fee. And then another fee when the product switches formats. They need to find another way to make a profit like google did when Microsoft was using the old fashioned sales system.
Not to mention that budgets are getting larger and larger with very little explanation, everybody gets a raise I guess and the movie goers pay for it.
The studios want to work with an old business model forever but the truth is the culture is changing. It's no longer a single product for a single fee. And then another fee when the product switches formats. They need to find another way to make a profit like google did when Microsoft was using the old fashioned sales system.
Not to mention that budgets are getting larger and larger with very little explanation, everybody gets a raise I guess and the movie goers pay for it.
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1:31PM on 12/22/2010
I don't download movies illegally, not because I think it's wrong, but because I just don't care enough/have the time, and because I don't want to watch a movie I've never seen before in poor quality on my computer screen. When a movie comes out that I'm not crazy interested in seeing in a theater but kind of want to see (Salt, for example), I think "Meh, it'll be on Netflix at some point, and I'll eventually get around to seeing it." Movies that I really want to see in a theater, like
I don't download movies illegally, not because I think it's wrong, but because I just don't care enough/have the time, and because I don't want to watch a movie I've never seen before in poor quality on my computer screen. When a movie comes out that I'm not crazy interested in seeing in a theater but kind of want to see (Salt, for example), I think "Meh, it'll be on Netflix at some point, and I'll eventually get around to seeing it." Movies that I really want to see in a theater, like Inception or Avatar, I go see in the theater. It's that simple.

I don't know or care if downloading/uploading movies is immoral or if it should be illegal. What I do know is that the sharks and lawyers who attack people with absurdly large lawsuits and exaggerated fees are evil and must be stopped.
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1:21PM on 12/22/2010
I can understand why people in other countries pirate. For some places, it can be months before a movie gets to their theaters. Cams and whatnot look and sound terrible, but it's better than nothing if you can't see it where you live.

The thing that occurs to me is that if I decide to download a movie I would never pay to see in a theater, how would they be able to tell the difference between me doing that or me just waiting for it to show up on HBO or something?
I can understand why people in other countries pirate. For some places, it can be months before a movie gets to their theaters. Cams and whatnot look and sound terrible, but it's better than nothing if you can't see it where you live.

The thing that occurs to me is that if I decide to download a movie I would never pay to see in a theater, how would they be able to tell the difference between me doing that or me just waiting for it to show up on HBO or something?
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1:15PM on 12/22/2010
USA as a internet black hole country like North Korea. The only way piracy can be stopped for good.
USA as a internet black hole country like North Korea. The only way piracy can be stopped for good.
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-2
1:02PM on 12/22/2010

Heh

I'm actually not surprised that SALT made the list as that was a horrible movie that ppl were probably told to never spend their money on but still had to see it's crappiness so they downloaded it.
I'm actually not surprised that SALT made the list as that was a horrible movie that ppl were probably told to never spend their money on but still had to see it's crappiness so they downloaded it.
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12:55PM on 12/22/2010
Green Zone was fucking awesome. Im not big on movies about Iraq, Afganistan, Zakistan, Kyleanstan, and so forth, but I thought that movie was tits!

also, quit pirating. get a job, go to a discounted matinee time, or order it used from amazon, hell theyre even a dollar at redbox now. freeloading is why the economy is in the shitter. fuckin losers
Green Zone was fucking awesome. Im not big on movies about Iraq, Afganistan, Zakistan, Kyleanstan, and so forth, but I thought that movie was tits!

also, quit pirating. get a job, go to a discounted matinee time, or order it used from amazon, hell theyre even a dollar at redbox now. freeloading is why the economy is in the shitter. fuckin losers
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1:18PM on 12/22/2010
get off your high horse man, seriously.
get off your high horse man, seriously.
2:25PM on 12/22/2010
get out of your parent's basement and get a girlfriend... seriously!
get out of your parent's basement and get a girlfriend... seriously!
2:29PM on 12/22/2010
wow, nice man, way to go shitting on the unemployed and downtrodden, in the middle of a recession. you're class man, real class.
wow, nice man, way to go shitting on the unemployed and downtrodden, in the middle of a recession. you're class man, real class.
2:39PM on 12/22/2010
I didn't know the crappy state of the economy was because people download too much movies. Who knew!?
I didn't know the crappy state of the economy was because people download too much movies. Who knew!?
2:41PM on 12/22/2010
its a fucking dollar for a rental. $6 for a matinee. if you can afford the computer to d/l movies, then you can afford to rent or go to a movie. i am class, you're a dumass
its a fucking dollar for a rental. $6 for a matinee. if you can afford the computer to d/l movies, then you can afford to rent or go to a movie. i am class, you're a dumass
2:50PM on 12/22/2010
yup, i'm a dumb ass. lol, you're funny dude, really. lol
yup, i'm a dumb ass. lol, you're funny dude, really. lol
2:53PM on 12/22/2010
freeloading is part of the problem, not part of the solution. if you think otherwise, then you're jackass. "i want to see the movie before i spend 25 buck on the dvd" - then spend a $1 on the redbox like youre supposed to rather than just take shit. thats the concept of the movie industry: you wanna see a movie? you pay for it. you're part of the problem, not part of the solution.
freeloading is part of the problem, not part of the solution. if you think otherwise, then you're jackass. "i want to see the movie before i spend 25 buck on the dvd" - then spend a $1 on the redbox like youre supposed to rather than just take shit. thats the concept of the movie industry: you wanna see a movie? you pay for it. you're part of the problem, not part of the solution.
3:43PM on 12/22/2010
there is much worse things we can be doing than downloading fuckin movies. asshole
there is much worse things we can be doing than downloading fuckin movies. asshole
3:46PM on 12/22/2010
yea, but its a reflection of someone's morals. being such a bum that you dont even wanna spend a fucking dollar on a redbox or $6 on a matinee speaks volumes of what a loser someone is.
yea, but its a reflection of someone's morals. being such a bum that you dont even wanna spend a fucking dollar on a redbox or $6 on a matinee speaks volumes of what a loser someone is.
4:08PM on 12/22/2010
wow, speaking of a morals, ses the guy who wants to rip on unemployed people. hahahahahahaha, real moral there hoss
wow, speaking of a morals, ses the guy who wants to rip on unemployed people. hahahahahahaha, real moral there hoss
4:09PM on 12/22/2010
Could not agree more with Slim. The idea that "there are worse things people could be doing" is completely retarded. Clearly it is not the same as murdering puppies or something, but that doesn't make it ethically right in any way shape or form.

I keep saying on this site - download if you want, but don't be so ignorant to think that it is justifiable or ethical. If you think a movie isn't worth paying for, then ignore it completely. Or download it, but understand that the people who spent
Could not agree more with Slim. The idea that "there are worse things people could be doing" is completely retarded. Clearly it is not the same as murdering puppies or something, but that doesn't make it ethically right in any way shape or form.

I keep saying on this site - download if you want, but don't be so ignorant to think that it is justifiable or ethical. If you think a movie isn't worth paying for, then ignore it completely. Or download it, but understand that the people who spent boatloads of money to produce it for YOU the potential fan will rightfully be pissed off and try to prosecute people who steal it.

If you can steal and get away with it, then great. If you actually get caught, its not like you didn't know better. No more pity parties for the losers who get caught.
4:19PM on 12/22/2010
where do i rip on unemployed. i rip on people that sit in their parents basements on torrent sites stealing movies and not looking for a job. people that are unemployed and are out there job hunting - good for you. losers that want to spend all day on a piracy site and live off shit for free - fuck you.

thanks redjoe.
where do i rip on unemployed. i rip on people that sit in their parents basements on torrent sites stealing movies and not looking for a job. people that are unemployed and are out there job hunting - good for you. losers that want to spend all day on a piracy site and live off shit for free - fuck you.

thanks redjoe.
4:31PM on 12/22/2010
Ya know, some people don't have the money to spend on matinees, they have jobs that only afford them food, shelter, medication and other necessities....people like me. If I LOVE the film, I'll buy it later when it goes down in price. I hate that I can't go see the films I want to anymore because I don't have any extra cash. I manage to get to see a film in a theater about every 6 months at this point. Buy a few on Amazon after they are used or on sale, or when they finally get to Netflix. But
Ya know, some people don't have the money to spend on matinees, they have jobs that only afford them food, shelter, medication and other necessities....people like me. If I LOVE the film, I'll buy it later when it goes down in price. I hate that I can't go see the films I want to anymore because I don't have any extra cash. I manage to get to see a film in a theater about every 6 months at this point. Buy a few on Amazon after they are used or on sale, or when they finally get to Netflix. But some films I want to see badly, so I watch them online. If I love the film, I'll buy it later. Watch who you call fuckin losers when you have no idea what it is to live life without disposable income. When I had it I would see at least one film a week.......it would be nice to do again but I think I'd rather be able to eat.
4:35PM on 12/22/2010
have you read your posts? 'get a job...fuckin losers...you ar ethe reason wht the ecomony is in the shitter' need i go on? wow, thanks for handing out the work mr.trump. thats a really high soapbox you're standing on brother...hope it's not a hard fall. man there are many people, families, that can't even afford the buck that you are clamoring on about, there are people who have no choice but to dl/stream so their kids can get to see a flick. people who have acquired a pc b4 getting laid off.
have you read your posts? 'get a job...fuckin losers...you ar ethe reason wht the ecomony is in the shitter' need i go on? wow, thanks for handing out the work mr.trump. thats a really high soapbox you're standing on brother...hope it's not a hard fall. man there are many people, families, that can't even afford the buck that you are clamoring on about, there are people who have no choice but to dl/stream so their kids can get to see a flick. people who have acquired a pc b4 getting laid off. maybe even using a friend's pc. there is a skill called 'mulit-tasking' maybe you've heard of it, here's an example, reading your comments and sending emails. so yeah, fuck me for at least trying to be empathic. Good luck man. lol.
5:50PM on 12/22/2010
hey snoopmish, why not go sell your computer that you use to d/l movies if you can barely afford to spend 6 bucks a month to go see a movie. same goes for your bullshit argument muveadict. stealing food for a family is understandable. stealing "kick-ass"? thats when you need to get a fucking job.
hey snoopmish, why not go sell your computer that you use to d/l movies if you can barely afford to spend 6 bucks a month to go see a movie. same goes for your bullshit argument muveadict. stealing food for a family is understandable. stealing "kick-ass"? thats when you need to get a fucking job.
5:58PM on 12/22/2010
just a little tip for you Slim. When you resort to insulting people who respond to your posts, you make yourself look like an immature fool and your argument loses all ground.
just a little tip for you Slim. When you resort to insulting people who respond to your posts, you make yourself look like an immature fool and your argument loses all ground.
6:16PM on 12/22/2010
wow, thanks canuck. i was really worried and self-conscious about looking immature to a bunch of grown adults who don't know the difference between right and wrong and would rather sit at home downloading 'avatar' than go out on a date with a girl or with some friends to the movies.

you've really made me see the err of my ways.
wow, thanks canuck. i was really worried and self-conscious about looking immature to a bunch of grown adults who don't know the difference between right and wrong and would rather sit at home downloading 'avatar' than go out on a date with a girl or with some friends to the movies.

you've really made me see the err of my ways.
7:11PM on 12/22/2010
hahahaha, man everything that comes out of your head is pure gold, stealing is stealing right? but it's less wrong for hunger? now you are starting to unravel man. stick to your guns, theft is theft, you might want to go out and start cutting off hands while ya at it. and there are 24 hours in a day my man, you can do everything you want in a day, you just have to manage your time, your comments make me think that you have a lack of time management skill as well as lack of multi-tasking skills.
hahahaha, man everything that comes out of your head is pure gold, stealing is stealing right? but it's less wrong for hunger? now you are starting to unravel man. stick to your guns, theft is theft, you might want to go out and start cutting off hands while ya at it. and there are 24 hours in a day my man, you can do everything you want in a day, you just have to manage your time, your comments make me think that you have a lack of time management skill as well as lack of multi-tasking skills. my arguemants are not bullshit, they are in truth, fact. go read your constitution, and your state law on what theft is and what would qualify as an act of theft. I assure you that the people who watch the movies are not thieves. It is the people who rip them, which is what i have been saying since the onset of this discussion, but i know i now what your response will be...fuck me, let me fuck off before you get all hot and bothered. lol.
12:29PM on 12/22/2010
If someone buys a cinema ticket and then buys that film on blu-ray, but downloaded the movie to fill in the time between the two releases, is he a thief? When was the last time a thief gave you $40? Sometimes illegal downloads keep the flame of interest alive - leading to further sales. Uh, that's what I've heard.
If someone buys a cinema ticket and then buys that film on blu-ray, but downloaded the movie to fill in the time between the two releases, is he a thief? When was the last time a thief gave you $40? Sometimes illegal downloads keep the flame of interest alive - leading to further sales. Uh, that's what I've heard.
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12:50PM on 12/22/2010
Wow, how impatient are you?
Wow, how impatient are you?
3:12PM on 12/22/2010
thats like ordering a dish from a restaurant and afterwards the waiter tells you it wont be on the menu for 3 months, so you walk into the kitchen freezer and take enough until the dish comes back on the menu. its the same concept of entitlement & people thinking they should have whatever they want. can you not wait a few months - even weeks - like people have done with movies for 30 years before this past decade?
thats like ordering a dish from a restaurant and afterwards the waiter tells you it wont be on the menu for 3 months, so you walk into the kitchen freezer and take enough until the dish comes back on the menu. its the same concept of entitlement & people thinking they should have whatever they want. can you not wait a few months - even weeks - like people have done with movies for 30 years before this past decade?
3:34PM on 12/22/2010
Slimbo, personally, if I were gonna use that analogy, I would've gone with stealing the chef's secret recipe.

As for stealing from the kitchen, then there's a real victim, since the restaurant would have to spend their money replacing those items.
Slimbo, personally, if I were gonna use that analogy, I would've gone with stealing the chef's secret recipe.

As for stealing from the kitchen, then there's a real victim, since the restaurant would have to spend their money replacing those items.
3:43PM on 12/22/2010
The "Real victims" in yuor scenario are the studios & crew. Studios had to spend millions to make the movie so that they could make a profit from sales, & sometimes actors & cast/crew take a cut of the profit from movies rather than get paid from the studio. I understand that studios are the big bad giant, but movies arent free to make & depend on the public paying to see a movie that they produce.


despite what world you're living in where you think your $$$ goes nowhere, the movie studio &
The "Real victims" in yuor scenario are the studios & crew. Studios had to spend millions to make the movie so that they could make a profit from sales, & sometimes actors & cast/crew take a cut of the profit from movies rather than get paid from the studio. I understand that studios are the big bad giant, but movies arent free to make & depend on the public paying to see a movie that they produce.


despite what world you're living in where you think your $$$ goes nowhere, the movie studio & sometimes the cast & crew that put their time into a movie are the "real victims".
4:04PM on 12/22/2010
there you go again slim, they could not have made a profit from imaginary ticket sales, remember you referred to these people as "unemployed losers" hence...no money for a ticket...so how would the studio have profitted if they never would have bought a ticket?
there you go again slim, they could not have made a profit from imaginary ticket sales, remember you referred to these people as "unemployed losers" hence...no money for a ticket...so how would the studio have profitted if they never would have bought a ticket?
4:06PM on 12/22/2010
What are you talking about - they're already getting my 40 bucks? In my hypothetical, thus not legally admissible, scenario - the download is merely a stop gap. Had I not downloaded, I might've lost interest by the time Blu-Ray came out. You've drunk the studio flavor-aid. If these piracy numbers reflected a true loss in revenue, there would've been a huge attendance downturn over the last few years.
What are you talking about - they're already getting my 40 bucks? In my hypothetical, thus not legally admissible, scenario - the download is merely a stop gap. Had I not downloaded, I might've lost interest by the time Blu-Ray came out. You've drunk the studio flavor-aid. If these piracy numbers reflected a true loss in revenue, there would've been a huge attendance downturn over the last few years.
4:15PM on 12/22/2010
Captain Planet (hah) - Do you really think the majority of people who download also buy? Maybe a lot of the people who visit this site, because we are all super-nerds. Most of the people I know who have downloaded music or movies (or copied DVD's or whatever) just do it to do it and save money.

Muveadict - If you can't afford a movie ticket, then you shouldn't get the luxury of entertainment. But those $1 redbox fees are steep.... Maybe those "unemployed losers" should spend the extra
Captain Planet (hah) - Do you really think the majority of people who download also buy? Maybe a lot of the people who visit this site, because we are all super-nerds. Most of the people I know who have downloaded music or movies (or copied DVD's or whatever) just do it to do it and save money.

Muveadict - If you can't afford a movie ticket, then you shouldn't get the luxury of entertainment. But those $1 redbox fees are steep.... Maybe those "unemployed losers" should spend the extra couple hours on careerbuilder.com instead of torrent sites.
4:16PM on 12/22/2010
you are being entertained & using a product (movie) that you did not pay for. it's not drinkin the kool-aid, its Responsibility 101

you are stealing. youre not winning this argument. its like paying a pass for a ride, and when its over riding it again for free for the rest of the day. but its ok, they have your money for the time that you did pay. you have no clue what you are talking about.
you are being entertained & using a product (movie) that you did not pay for. it's not drinkin the kool-aid, its Responsibility 101

you are stealing. youre not winning this argument. its like paying a pass for a ride, and when its over riding it again for free for the rest of the day. but its ok, they have your money for the time that you did pay. you have no clue what you are talking about.
4:28PM on 12/22/2010
Piracy costs the studios money, but it also generates sales. I still challenge you to explain why there hasn't been an attendance downturn congruent with these millions of 'illegal' downloads. Surely, the internet should've ended Hollywood. Or at least cut off 40% of the attendance. Why hasn't it. With free downloads easier get than crack, why do attendances keep rising? You can throw out the straw man that attendances were even higher in the 40's, 50's - but movies were the only game in town
Piracy costs the studios money, but it also generates sales. I still challenge you to explain why there hasn't been an attendance downturn congruent with these millions of 'illegal' downloads. Surely, the internet should've ended Hollywood. Or at least cut off 40% of the attendance. Why hasn't it. With free downloads easier get than crack, why do attendances keep rising? You can throw out the straw man that attendances were even higher in the 40's, 50's - but movies were the only game in town back then.
4:49PM on 12/22/2010
hahahaha...red, seriously? dude? can't afford a 1-15 (figures courtesy slim) dollar ticket you don't get to watch a movie? that is the most perfect example as to why your economy is in the shiter, the bourgeoisie paragigm that drives the capitalist nature of america. There are many people who can multi-task man, it is a computer after all. i say again, it isn't the people who download that are in the wrong here, it is like finding something on the street. it is the people who rip and publish
hahahaha...red, seriously? dude? can't afford a 1-15 (figures courtesy slim) dollar ticket you don't get to watch a movie? that is the most perfect example as to why your economy is in the shiter, the bourgeoisie paragigm that drives the capitalist nature of america. There are many people who can multi-task man, it is a computer after all. i say again, it isn't the people who download that are in the wrong here, it is like finding something on the street. it is the people who rip and publish that are the culprits. if you woke up one morning and found a hundred dollar bill on your lawn are you a thief? now lets say that hundred dollar bill was money from a bank robbery, are you then a thief? then by this logic if you know that the cash in your wallet was used to buy drugs then throw it out or suffer the consequences one adding to the drug trade. The fact is that there are people who rip dvd's, video tape movies and put these recordings on the net, these are the thieves, not the downloader. and dont try to bullshit me by saying you'd try to find the owner of the hundred dollar bill.
4:51PM on 12/22/2010
slimbo- your resturaunt analogy is terrible. Its nothing like that. Its more like going to a resturaunt, enjoying a meal, recreating the meal at home and enjoy whenever you feel like instead of goin to a place with horrible service and inflated prices ever again, but having that place angry because you wont let them make it for you
slimbo- your resturaunt analogy is terrible. Its nothing like that. Its more like going to a resturaunt, enjoying a meal, recreating the meal at home and enjoy whenever you feel like instead of goin to a place with horrible service and inflated prices ever again, but having that place angry because you wont let them make it for you
5:49PM on 12/22/2010
@muveaddict - I think you make some interesting points, I really do. And I think that the guys posting movies online are the bigger problem. But do you really think that these douche-bags who post ripped movie compressions online would continue to do it if people didn't download them?

There would be no drug dealers if people didn't do drugs. There would be no libraries if people didn't want to check out a book and read it. And, there would be no torrent sites if people didn't download
@muveaddict - I think you make some interesting points, I really do. And I think that the guys posting movies online are the bigger problem. But do you really think that these douche-bags who post ripped movie compressions online would continue to do it if people didn't download them?

There would be no drug dealers if people didn't do drugs. There would be no libraries if people didn't want to check out a book and read it. And, there would be no torrent sites if people didn't download movies. You don't "find" torrent movies on the street(internet), you seek them out. Pretty major difference when comparing to "finding money on the ground."

Again - download at your own risk, but don't be upset that movie-makers try to protect their product. If you want to create movies and give it away for free or broadcast it around the world or just hide the final product in a closet, that is your own business. But these movies we are talking about are other people's business and they can protect their business however they see fit. Even if you or many other people think they are dumb.

5:54PM on 12/22/2010
cerealkiller, then go home a recreate avatar yourself and enjoy it.

a better analogy would be that you spend a week setting up a carnival ride. try to charge admission, kids come along and ride for free. and a few say, "well i paid once". the $10 at the theater is for ONE viewing - not all you can watch.

It's wrong, it's never been right - EVER! you know it and youre making a pitiful excuse to defend being a mooch.
cerealkiller, then go home a recreate avatar yourself and enjoy it.

a better analogy would be that you spend a week setting up a carnival ride. try to charge admission, kids come along and ride for free. and a few say, "well i paid once". the $10 at the theater is for ONE viewing - not all you can watch.

It's wrong, it's never been right - EVER! you know it and youre making a pitiful excuse to defend being a mooch.
6:56PM on 12/22/2010
red, you and slim have this really black and white view on this, but thats ok, the fact is that it isn't theft in most common law jurisdictions, it isn't even a crime in the US, but calling people thieves is a crime. piracy is a crime only so far as the people who rip them are the thieves. you cannot say 'if nobody watched then it wouldn't exist' because the fact of the matter is that it does exist and always has existed. It is human nature to take advantage of freeness, even if my rednecked
red, you and slim have this really black and white view on this, but thats ok, the fact is that it isn't theft in most common law jurisdictions, it isn't even a crime in the US, but calling people thieves is a crime. piracy is a crime only so far as the people who rip them are the thieves. you cannot say 'if nobody watched then it wouldn't exist' because the fact of the matter is that it does exist and always has existed. It is human nature to take advantage of freeness, even if my rednecked friend dosent think so, not everyone is as virtuous as he. There are historical reasons why certain narcotics are legal whilst others are not, just as there will always be people who wish to be seen, heard and listened to, no matter who it is, and then there are the anarchists who just want to disrupt the status quo. there will always be someone posting some form of information online for everyone to take. it will never go away. the way to deal with it is to try to make the media un-replicable. but the undusty wants to have the cake and eat it too, has to have a tivo, bluray burner and computer, but you can only do what we (the industry) ses you can do. if everyone in the world thought like you guys then we'd never have pornography, which, while distasteful to some, is enjoyable to many. Conversly, we wouldn't have movies, or freedom of expression. Remember that the freedom of speech...freedom on the whole comes at a cost, and that cost is the sour, the small percentage of the population that will exploit...abuse. is piracy wrong? morally sure, it is abuse of process, but is it illegal? no it isn't. and thats the truth.
1:17AM on 12/23/2010
Also, one final thought to leave this debate on. Remember when a pristine copy of American Gangster was leaked? Well, a guy at my work downloaded it and came in the next day raving about its greatness to dozens of people. That's the kind of word-of-mouth you can't buy. It's much stronger than critical approval, because its someone you know saying it. I later found many of the people who heard this guy's ravings bought a ticket to it, and many of those will buy the DVD. Universal OWES this guy
Also, one final thought to leave this debate on. Remember when a pristine copy of American Gangster was leaked? Well, a guy at my work downloaded it and came in the next day raving about its greatness to dozens of people. That's the kind of word-of-mouth you can't buy. It's much stronger than critical approval, because its someone you know saying it. I later found many of the people who heard this guy's ravings bought a ticket to it, and many of those will buy the DVD. Universal OWES this guy money.
9:53AM on 12/23/2010
There was pornography and movies and freedom of speech before internet piracy. Oh my God. Muveadict you make so many worthwhile points, but wow, that one is just silly.
There was pornography and movies and freedom of speech before internet piracy. Oh my God. Muveadict you make so many worthwhile points, but wow, that one is just silly.
10:50AM on 12/23/2010
lol, yeah, i know, but i was refering to freedom on information on the web, lol...yeah, i call bullshit on that lol.
lol, yeah, i know, but i was refering to freedom on information on the web, lol...yeah, i call bullshit on that lol.
12:25PM on 12/22/2010

you know something...

It's never "right" to steal, but is this "stealing", or is it more akin to "finding" because if the person who ripped it didn't publish it then we'd never find it. We can only download/stream what we find. Then the other companies can do things like watermark discs ala WB, and try to halt the ripping of discs. Yes it is wrong, but these are (for lack of a better term) "victimless crimes" and data like this is counting chickens before they hatch. In my country it costs between 35-45 dollars to
It's never "right" to steal, but is this "stealing", or is it more akin to "finding" because if the person who ripped it didn't publish it then we'd never find it. We can only download/stream what we find. Then the other companies can do things like watermark discs ala WB, and try to halt the ripping of discs. Yes it is wrong, but these are (for lack of a better term) "victimless crimes" and data like this is counting chickens before they hatch. In my country it costs between 35-45 dollars to see a movie, and trust me there are some movies that are worth that (inception and avatar for example) and some that are definitely not worth it (Clash of the Titans). needless to say, i paid to see all in the cinema except "green zone" and "hurt locker" but only because these movies were widely unpopular and only had about a week screen time. So what do i do? pay 220 dollars for this? a movie i'd probably watch once? naw...i'll stream it, judge it and then if i love it i'd buy it. But saying that 16 odd million people pirated a flick equates to 200 odd million in lost ticket sales is bullshit. maybe they should use this data to analyze the tastes of the masses and make more entertaining movies. But chasing down people and putting them in court to pay for an inferior product is just stupid and is just the decision of some lawyer who was looking for work. There are more cost effective ways of dealing with piracy, and lits face it, ever since there has been a way to copy recorded data onto a portable medium there has been piracy. in a thousand years we would be saying something like "ya know the two oldest professions on earth? prostitution and piracy". Ya want to make money for your shitty product? do what syfy does and sell endorsements.
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12:49PM on 12/22/2010
I don't know where you live, but where I live (Indiana), just because a product is inferior doesn't mean it is okay to steal it (digital or otherwise). People aren't stealing Snuggies and Shamwow's because they are stupid, they are just avoiding them. If a movie looks/is stupid, then avoid it.

Again, I have pirated movies that I would have never seen if not for the online option, simply because they don't look to be worth price of admission. But I would never try and justify it as a sound
I don't know where you live, but where I live (Indiana), just because a product is inferior doesn't mean it is okay to steal it (digital or otherwise). People aren't stealing Snuggies and Shamwow's because they are stupid, they are just avoiding them. If a movie looks/is stupid, then avoid it.

Again, I have pirated movies that I would have never seen if not for the online option, simply because they don't look to be worth price of admission. But I would never try and justify it as a sound ethical decision.
1:58PM on 12/22/2010
@redjoe84, Wow, total hipocrit,first you say"...just because a product is inferior doesn't mean it is okay to steal it (digital or otherwise)."....Then you say..."I have pirated movies that I would have never seen if not for the online option, simply because they don't look to be worth price of admission"... So, which is it?
@redjoe84, Wow, total hipocrit,first you say"...just because a product is inferior doesn't mean it is okay to steal it (digital or otherwise)."....Then you say..."I have pirated movies that I would have never seen if not for the online option, simply because they don't look to be worth price of admission"... So, which is it?
2:20PM on 12/22/2010
i didn't say it was ok to steal an inferior product, and i am not talking about how good a movie is either, i am refering to the sub par quality you get when you reduce the size of any dvd/mp3/bluray when you rip and convert. yea, with mp3 its frequencies that are inaudiable to human hearing, but it is still an inferior copy of the original. why go through the trouble of suing the "finder" and forcing them to pay for something inferior? if someone robs a bank in your area and the money spills
i didn't say it was ok to steal an inferior product, and i am not talking about how good a movie is either, i am refering to the sub par quality you get when you reduce the size of any dvd/mp3/bluray when you rip and convert. yea, with mp3 its frequencies that are inaudiable to human hearing, but it is still an inferior copy of the original. why go through the trouble of suing the "finder" and forcing them to pay for something inferior? if someone robs a bank in your area and the money spills onto the street and you find it, should you be charged with theft? no, you found the money fair and square, the law actually protects you. the real culprits are the persons who rip the material and publish, not the [link] I never advocated theft, and in my mind it isn't theft, it's me finding something and looking at it.
4:36PM on 12/22/2010
I think that is the first interesting "pro-piracy" argument I have heard yet. The two situations are hardly comparable, but I do agree that those who post movies are the real bad guys. And that's where I get worked up. I don't particularly get horribly upset about people "looking at" something. I just don't get how people can expect the people who make movies to sit by and say "oh, okay. they are probably the same people who buy tickets and DVD's."
I think that is the first interesting "pro-piracy" argument I have heard yet. The two situations are hardly comparable, but I do agree that those who post movies are the real bad guys. And that's where I get worked up. I don't particularly get horribly upset about people "looking at" something. I just don't get how people can expect the people who make movies to sit by and say "oh, okay. they are probably the same people who buy tickets and DVD's."
12:24PM on 12/22/2010
Looking at my dvd/blu ray collection, I cant count how many of them I would not have purchased if I had no downloaded them first.
Looking at my dvd/blu ray collection, I cant count how many of them I would not have purchased if I had no downloaded them first.
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+3
12:23PM on 12/22/2010

I also want to go on record as saying

Kick Ass is to this date the only movie ive gone to solo. I downloaded every rip that came out, bootleg, Telesync, dvd rip, blu ray rip, and then i bought the dvd/blu ray pack. I think ive seen it 10 times. that's wrong across the board
Kick Ass is to this date the only movie ive gone to solo. I downloaded every rip that came out, bootleg, Telesync, dvd rip, blu ray rip, and then i bought the dvd/blu ray pack. I think ive seen it 10 times. that's wrong across the board
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12:03PM on 12/22/2010
Downloaded them all, saw 4 of them in the theaters.
Downloaded them all, saw 4 of them in the theaters.
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11:59AM on 12/22/2010
People who pirate movies do so in lieu of renting most of the time. I don't see movies in the theater and then pirate them. The only movies I have pirated are ones that I wouldn't have paid for, but I am just satisfying curiosity (maybe something like SALT or TRANSFORMERS 2).

That said, I still don't understand why people feel entitled to it. It isn't legal, and pirating isn't a God-given right. It is a risk that can have consequences, and people who run a business (a movie business or
People who pirate movies do so in lieu of renting most of the time. I don't see movies in the theater and then pirate them. The only movies I have pirated are ones that I wouldn't have paid for, but I am just satisfying curiosity (maybe something like SALT or TRANSFORMERS 2).

That said, I still don't understand why people feel entitled to it. It isn't legal, and pirating isn't a God-given right. It is a risk that can have consequences, and people who run a business (a movie business or otherwise) ARE entitled to try and protect their investment. If you want to pirate movies, go right ahead, but please don't try and justify it.

But, in the end, good movies do make plenty of money no matter what.
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2:07PM on 12/22/2010
Ok, Redjoe84, so whats your justifaication for bootlegging movies? You tell people not to try and justify doing it, but every post, you say you do it...You're just a theif like the rest of us, get off you high horse, your getting a nose bleed...
Ok, Redjoe84, so whats your justifaication for bootlegging movies? You tell people not to try and justify doing it, but every post, you say you do it...You're just a theif like the rest of us, get off you high horse, your getting a nose bleed...
4:23PM on 12/22/2010
That's just it - I downloaded just to see a couple movies that I didn't want to pay for. And it was wrong. No justification. Just admittedly, it was stealing. I don't care a lot when people download the occasional movie, but there are people who are serial downloaders which is not cool to me. And I just really can't stand when people act like they are "sticking it to the big CORPORATIONS" by not paying. Or that movie distributors shouldn't prosecute.

Movies are a business before they
That's just it - I downloaded just to see a couple movies that I didn't want to pay for. And it was wrong. No justification. Just admittedly, it was stealing. I don't care a lot when people download the occasional movie, but there are people who are serial downloaders which is not cool to me. And I just really can't stand when people act like they are "sticking it to the big CORPORATIONS" by not paying. Or that movie distributors shouldn't prosecute.

Movies are a business before they are an art or an entertainment or anything else. I say download at your own risk, but the "scary corporations" have every right to protect their investment.

To me, downloading is one thing. Acting like it is ethical is another.
+9
11:56AM on 12/22/2010

really? Avatar?

people suck at pirating. the only way to ever watch that movie was 3d in the big screen. Has anyone actually gone back and watched it again? sucks for kick-ass, shoulda made a ton more money. btw, ive bootlegged 9 of those movies, all but Green Zone. I own 3 of them on dvd/blu, and saw 4 in theatres. they got my money
people suck at pirating. the only way to ever watch that movie was 3d in the big screen. Has anyone actually gone back and watched it again? sucks for kick-ass, shoulda made a ton more money. btw, ive bootlegged 9 of those movies, all but Green Zone. I own 3 of them on dvd/blu, and saw 4 in theatres. they got my money
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