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David Goyer defends Superman's actions at the end of Man of Steel

10.28.2015

If you haven't watched MAN OF STEEL yet for whatever reason, you should probably turn away now as we will be dealing with some pretty big spoilers. Still with us? Good, lets go. MAN OF STEEL introduced us to a hero who was still trying to make sense of his powers as well as how to use them. When General Zod (Michael Shannon) and several other exiled Kryptonian's showed up to wreak havoc on Earth, Superman (Henry Cavill) was forced to take extreme measures to end the threat; namely, snapping General Zod's neck. Fan's protested this action as historically the man of steel has always gone to great lengths not to kill anyone.

Speaking with Nerdist (via ScreenRant), MAN OF STEEL writer David Goyer defended Superman's actions:

The way I work, the way Chris [Nolan] works, is you do what’s right for the story. That exists entirely separately from what fans should or shouldn’t think of that character. You have to do what’s right for the story. In that instance, this was a Superman who had only been Superman for like, a week. He wasn’t Superman as we think of him in the DC Comics…or even in a world that conceived of Superman existing. He’d only flown for the first time a few days before that. He’d never fought anyone that had super powers before. And so he’s going up against a guy who’s not only super-powered, but has been training since birth to use those super powers, who exists as a superhuman killing machine, who has stated, ‘I will never stop until I destroy all of humanity.’ If you take Superman out of it, what’s the right way to tell that story? I think the right way to tell that story is if you take this powered alien who says, ‘You can have your race back, but you have to kill your adopted race,’ the moral, horrible situation to be in is to actually be forced to kill, not wanting to, the only other person from your race. Take Superman aside, I think that’s the right way to tell that story.

As General Zod wasn't leaving Superman with much choice and Kal-El was obviously distraught with what he knew he had to do, I've never been all that bothered by Superman's actions. As David Goyer said above, this Superman is still dealing with the full extent of his powers and had he done nothing...there's no telling what Zod may have done before being subdued. It was a tough choice either way but as MAN OF STEEL is only the beginning of Superman's journey, I suspect that the Superman we're all familiar with will emerge as the character develops in future films.

Superman's next outing, BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE opens on March 25, 2016.

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4:55PM on 11/03/2015
The fact that David Goyer has to come out and defend MOS says it all.
The fact that David Goyer has to come out and defend MOS says it all.
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2:28PM on 10/30/2015
A hero looks for a way to minimize damage. Maybe he has to snap the guy's neck. Maybe not. But Superman, I don't care how long he's been flying, is supposed to be a hero. He doesn't throw the guy into a building that hasn't been destroyed yet.

And what I really had trouble with, is that Mr. Goyer, Snyder, and maybe even Nolan (who had a story credit) decided to make Superman go half-way around the world to battle a snake robot while Metropolis, his future home, gets blasted by some sort of
A hero looks for a way to minimize damage. Maybe he has to snap the guy's neck. Maybe not. But Superman, I don't care how long he's been flying, is supposed to be a hero. He doesn't throw the guy into a building that hasn't been destroyed yet.

And what I really had trouble with, is that Mr. Goyer, Snyder, and maybe even Nolan (who had a story credit) decided to make Superman go half-way around the world to battle a snake robot while Metropolis, his future home, gets blasted by some sort of gravitational magnetic pulse thing. Because you can tell a new Superman story without causing untold damage and death. At least save it for the second movie, where we already like the guy so we're already rooting for him.
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10:52AM on 10/30/2015
Just love how Jonathan Kent dies to protect Clark's identity only to be found out by a really annoying Lois Lane interpretation.
Just love how Jonathan Kent dies to protect Clark's identity only to be found out by a really annoying Lois Lane interpretation.
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5:13AM on 10/30/2015

Loved Man of Steel

Sometimes we can read too much into movies but this is how I saw Man of Steel in retrospect. Sure we all grew up and loved our superman from the comics and christopher reeve's superman, sadly this is a new day and time. If you really take a hard look at Man of Steel it breaks down to a movie about terrorism in the world. Zod and his crew are our terrorist and superman plays us in the war against terror. We don't always think about the consequences for destruction in the name of war(destroying
Sometimes we can read too much into movies but this is how I saw Man of Steel in retrospect. Sure we all grew up and loved our superman from the comics and christopher reeve's superman, sadly this is a new day and time. If you really take a hard look at Man of Steel it breaks down to a movie about terrorism in the world. Zod and his crew are our terrorist and superman plays us in the war against terror. We don't always think about the consequences for destruction in the name of war(destroying city while fighting zod). Breaking Zod's neck, while sacrilege to traditional superman, is the perfect ending based on a superman that lives in today's world. This isn't the first comic book movie and certainly won't be the last that modifies the origional version to reflect what is actually happening in the world. That is why all these characters were created in the first place, to make sense of the chaos. We shouldn't be pissed of about a movie "crapping" on what we knew and love, we need to remember that there is a new generation dealing with different issues that we didn't face and this superman speaks to them on a level that can help them cope with the madness in the world. Not one remake or "re-imaging" of a superhero film is saying the one we loved is wrong. They may not be a great movie but let's try not to slam them based on tradition, future generations may need a different superman that speaks to their life and times.
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5:51AM on 11/02/2015
But the war on terror is fabricated by those who created it.
But the war on terror is fabricated by those who created it.
4:24AM on 10/30/2015

It's not the issue

The issue for me is that he shows no remorse at all in the later scenes!
The issue for me is that he shows no remorse at all in the later scenes!
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10:22PM on 10/29/2015

I thought it was cute

The way he snapped his neck. I would like to know how you repair a whole fuckin city after it was wrecked beyond anything. How many years passed and all, like that is something that pissed me the fuck off.
The way he snapped his neck. I would like to know how you repair a whole fuckin city after it was wrecked beyond anything. How many years passed and all, like that is something that pissed me the fuck off.
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10:10AM on 10/29/2015

Black Adam

I know this is sort of off topic but it's hard to envision the main fight in "Shazam" not looking exactly like the one
between Supes and Zod...
I know this is sort of off topic but it's hard to envision the main fight in "Shazam" not looking exactly like the one
between Supes and Zod...
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10:01AM on 10/29/2015
@1:51, the mightiest upper cut ever!
@1:51, the mightiest upper cut ever!
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8:29AM on 10/29/2015
Every time I see David Goyers name on this site, I roll my eyes.
Every time I see David Goyers name on this site, I roll my eyes.
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7:32AM on 10/29/2015

Ugh

are we still talking about this? You either loved or hated this movie, end of story, let's move on already.
are we still talking about this? You either loved or hated this movie, end of story, let's move on already.
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4:45AM on 10/29/2015
Yep Man Of Steel is Super boy for a week yet manages to kill a well trained soldier like Zod.
Everything in this movie was wrong. The morality lessons taught by Kevin Costner to the really quick overview in the spaceship of where Super boy came from. In the original Kal El was in the Fortress of Solitude for years going through all his training making him better equipped. This was just a complete erosion of who Superman is.
The writing was a complete erosion of Superman.
Yep Man Of Steel is Super boy for a week yet manages to kill a well trained soldier like Zod.
Everything in this movie was wrong. The morality lessons taught by Kevin Costner to the really quick overview in the spaceship of where Super boy came from. In the original Kal El was in the Fortress of Solitude for years going through all his training making him better equipped. This was just a complete erosion of who Superman is.
The writing was a complete erosion of Superman.
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7:57AM on 10/29/2015
no the writing was a new interpretation. Your interpretation seems to stem solely from the Donner version by what you've just written.
no the writing was a new interpretation. Your interpretation seems to stem solely from the Donner version by what you've just written.
9:59AM on 10/29/2015
I agree with Bobafett2. Superman's origin story was retold many times in the comics but in all of them, he decides very early on that he will protect people, hence the training. Most importantly, he keeps the moral high ground by never killing anyone. Donner understood that, Goyer didn't. In many ways, Man of Steel was as unfaithful to the source material as the latest Fantastic Four movie was and in the same areas: characterization and tone.
I agree with Bobafett2. Superman's origin story was retold many times in the comics but in all of them, he decides very early on that he will protect people, hence the training. Most importantly, he keeps the moral high ground by never killing anyone. Donner understood that, Goyer didn't. In many ways, Man of Steel was as unfaithful to the source material as the latest Fantastic Four movie was and in the same areas: characterization and tone.
10:47AM on 10/29/2015
JimmyArrow, it wasn't unfaithful to the source material. Superman has killed in the comics before MoS. This is a documented fact. Understand the choice he was faced with. Let a maniacal Kryptonian kill a family right in front of him, or kill the maniac to save everyone. It was the right choice. Plus Faora told him they "would kill a million more for every human saved."
JimmyArrow, it wasn't unfaithful to the source material. Superman has killed in the comics before MoS. This is a documented fact. Understand the choice he was faced with. Let a maniacal Kryptonian kill a family right in front of him, or kill the maniac to save everyone. It was the right choice. Plus Faora told him they "would kill a million more for every human saved."
3:44PM on 10/29/2015
winddragon

It is also a documented fact that Batman killed people (in the early Bob Kane comics, no gangster survived) and yet, it is part of the accepted new canon that Batman never kills and never uses guns.

Superman's identity is the same: he's a big boyscout who could kill people but never does. Faora's threat is not different than any other villains of history ever made. Instead of contriving a story where Superman had to kill Zod, he should have spent his effort writing an ending
winddragon

It is also a documented fact that Batman killed people (in the early Bob Kane comics, no gangster survived) and yet, it is part of the accepted new canon that Batman never kills and never uses guns.

Superman's identity is the same: he's a big boyscout who could kill people but never does. Faora's threat is not different than any other villains of history ever made. Instead of contriving a story where Superman had to kill Zod, he should have spent his effort writing an ending where he sends him back in the Negative Zone.
7:50PM on 10/29/2015
Thank you Jimmy.

Thank you Jimmy.

+1
11:28PM on 10/28/2015

I thought his actions were fine....

I had no problem with him killing Zod. He was staring straight at a family of four and watching these little children about to be murdered if he didn't do something. At that moment, there were no other options.

My bigger problem with the movie is the complete and utter lack of joy. Maybe they'll have some of that in the second film, but they missed an opportunity to have him slowly ease into his role because he sees how there are times he is the only hope for people and it makes him
I had no problem with him killing Zod. He was staring straight at a family of four and watching these little children about to be murdered if he didn't do something. At that moment, there were no other options.

My bigger problem with the movie is the complete and utter lack of joy. Maybe they'll have some of that in the second film, but they missed an opportunity to have him slowly ease into his role because he sees how there are times he is the only hope for people and it makes him accept his role graciously. Instead there was an awkward conversation with a priest in a church, then he showed up at the army base. It felt painfully forced.
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11:45PM on 10/28/2015
Agreed that there should have been a bit more levity throughout the film.
Agreed that there should have been a bit more levity throughout the film.
10:28PM on 10/28/2015

Not the real issue

The real problem isn't Superman breaking an aliens neck, the problem is two other things. One, that Superman does very little to save humanity in the space of this fight (something that Superman II didn't make the mistake of) and much more importantly that it's difficult to have a neck snapping carry any believable weight after they've spent 20-30 minutes flying each other through buildings at super sonic speed. What rules are we playing by here?
The real problem isn't Superman breaking an aliens neck, the problem is two other things. One, that Superman does very little to save humanity in the space of this fight (something that Superman II didn't make the mistake of) and much more importantly that it's difficult to have a neck snapping carry any believable weight after they've spent 20-30 minutes flying each other through buildings at super sonic speed. What rules are we playing by here?
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11:40PM on 10/28/2015
In regards to your claim that Supes should've saved more people, he was faced with an impossible choice - evacuate the people of Metropolis first or destroy the world engine. He could either leave the few thousand of people in Metropolis to die, or destroy the world engine before it kills millions in India. He made the right decision. Fact is, if two Kryptonian aliens crashed into your town and tore into each other regardless of the damage, where could you actually go? Where could you deem safe
In regards to your claim that Supes should've saved more people, he was faced with an impossible choice - evacuate the people of Metropolis first or destroy the world engine. He could either leave the few thousand of people in Metropolis to die, or destroy the world engine before it kills millions in India. He made the right decision. Fact is, if two Kryptonian aliens crashed into your town and tore into each other regardless of the damage, where could you actually go? Where could you deem safe enough? As for Superman, he couldn't have taken Zod that far into space because 1) Zod would have fought back and 2) Zod's ship was stationed on earth before Superman handed himself over, so of course Zod wouldn't have wanted to fight elsewhere.
7:56AM on 10/29/2015
"it's difficult to have a neck snapping carry any believable weight after they've spent 20-30 minutes flying each other through buildings at super sonic speed. What rules are we playing by here?"

they never broke their rules. It was Kryptonian strength that broke zods neck with so much strength and power there was a shockwave that eminated from it.
"it's difficult to have a neck snapping carry any believable weight after they've spent 20-30 minutes flying each other through buildings at super sonic speed. What rules are we playing by here?"

they never broke their rules. It was Kryptonian strength that broke zods neck with so much strength and power there was a shockwave that eminated from it.
10:28PM on 10/28/2015
This has been my argument since MoS came out. I've never understood the hate for this film. This is NOT a fully-formed Superman, he is just learning how to use his powers. It wouldn't have made sense to just plop him down as a golden and righteous savior that fights and relates to people perfectly. The Superman Goyer and Nolan created made sense in the story they created.
This has been my argument since MoS came out. I've never understood the hate for this film. This is NOT a fully-formed Superman, he is just learning how to use his powers. It wouldn't have made sense to just plop him down as a golden and righteous savior that fights and relates to people perfectly. The Superman Goyer and Nolan created made sense in the story they created.
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11:33PM on 10/28/2015
If they really did write the story so that the sheer catastrophe of the fight would create the tension for the second film (and give both Batman and Luthor a reason to attack him), then it was better than most people thought. If they read the criticisms after the film's release and decided to do damage control, the the writing is even worse than we thought.
If they really did write the story so that the sheer catastrophe of the fight would create the tension for the second film (and give both Batman and Luthor a reason to attack him), then it was better than most people thought. If they read the criticisms after the film's release and decided to do damage control, the the writing is even worse than we thought.
+2
10:21PM on 10/28/2015

That's a paradox.

Yes, storywise killing ZOD was the best option... but David (and his co-writers) are the ones who put SUPERMAN in that situation in the 1st place.

We should see this like BATMAN BEGINS. BRUCE planned on killing his parents' murderer before his training, which led him to decide that he's not an executioner. We don't see him killing, but he wanted to. What's the difference between him and CLARK?
Yes, storywise killing ZOD was the best option... but David (and his co-writers) are the ones who put SUPERMAN in that situation in the 1st place.

We should see this like BATMAN BEGINS. BRUCE planned on killing his parents' murderer before his training, which led him to decide that he's not an executioner. We don't see him killing, but he wanted to. What's the difference between him and CLARK?
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+0
8:47PM on 10/28/2015
He pretty much described my thoughts after first watching the movie.
He pretty much described my thoughts after first watching the movie.
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+3
8:41PM on 10/28/2015
A good writer doesn't write themselves into a corner where they HAVE to betray a well established character. If what is "right for the story" doesn't give an honest interpretation of the characters, then you need a new story. Superman is the ultimate symbol of righteousness and hope, this film had none, not only in the killing of Zod, but in every single frame.
A good writer doesn't write themselves into a corner where they HAVE to betray a well established character. If what is "right for the story" doesn't give an honest interpretation of the characters, then you need a new story. Superman is the ultimate symbol of righteousness and hope, this film had none, not only in the killing of Zod, but in every single frame.
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+3
8:39PM on 10/28/2015
I'd like to hear him explain Pa Kent's suicide to teach Clark a "lesson". That carries no weight to Pa Kent's character, nor does it really teach Clark any true lessons. It's complete and utter bullshit.
I'd like to hear him explain Pa Kent's suicide to teach Clark a "lesson". That carries no weight to Pa Kent's character, nor does it really teach Clark any true lessons. It's complete and utter bullshit.
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10:23PM on 10/28/2015
That was the worst part of the movie. Clark could have run up there and the tornado could throw him 10 miles without the slightest injury. No one would be the wiser because he could just say he dove in a ditch and it went over his head. What kind of idiot dreams up Superman allowing his step-father to die in front of him and his step-mom just because he's worried about people finding out?

Not only a terrible example, but it shows a tragic narcissistic flaw with this version if his own
That was the worst part of the movie. Clark could have run up there and the tornado could throw him 10 miles without the slightest injury. No one would be the wiser because he could just say he dove in a ditch and it went over his head. What kind of idiot dreams up Superman allowing his step-father to die in front of him and his step-mom just because he's worried about people finding out?

Not only a terrible example, but it shows a tragic narcissistic flaw with this version if his own convenience over other people's lives.
5:59AM on 11/02/2015
2 brilliant posts here
2 brilliant posts here
8:35PM on 10/28/2015

He sort of has a point, but I'm not really buying it.

But what the audience thinks of a character does make a difference, especially when you're dealing with a character that is as well known as Superman. Honestly, the issue, for me, isn't so much that he kills Zod, but that it's so awkwardly staged. There's no comment on it after the fact. It just goes from him killing Zod and hugging Lois, to him knocking a satellite out of the sky and a soldier saying he's hot.
But what the audience thinks of a character does make a difference, especially when you're dealing with a character that is as well known as Superman. Honestly, the issue, for me, isn't so much that he kills Zod, but that it's so awkwardly staged. There's no comment on it after the fact. It just goes from him killing Zod and hugging Lois, to him knocking a satellite out of the sky and a soldier saying he's hot.
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10:29PM on 10/28/2015
Superman 2, Superman kills Zod after taking away his powers and fracturing his hand before throwing him to his death. Then hugs and kisses Lois.
Superman 2, Superman kills Zod after taking away his powers and fracturing his hand before throwing him to his death. Then hugs and kisses Lois.
+1
8:24PM on 10/28/2015
Seriously, that stupid "Superman kills zod in Superman 2 anyway" argument? Zod & co. Fell into a misty pit which could lead to anywhere. Given the campy tone of the movie, it's unlikely that superman killed zod!
Seriously, that stupid "Superman kills zod in Superman 2 anyway" argument? Zod & co. Fell into a misty pit which could lead to anywhere. Given the campy tone of the movie, it's unlikely that superman killed zod!
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10:33PM on 10/28/2015
So Zod is still alive?
So Zod is still alive?
8:23PM on 10/28/2015
I look at it as Kal/Clark learning to be Superman (I keep trying to remember if the word Superman is ever said in the film.) Him taking a life in the first film will be why he adopts his code against killing
I look at it as Kal/Clark learning to be Superman (I keep trying to remember if the word Superman is ever said in the film.) Him taking a life in the first film will be why he adopts his code against killing
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8:26PM on 10/28/2015
No shit right? God forbid we have some character development through these films. And yes, one of the army techs calls him Superman.
No shit right? God forbid we have some character development through these films. And yes, one of the army techs calls him Superman.
8:07PM on 10/28/2015
This has been my read on Man of Steel too. Zod's arrival forces Kal to reveal himself well before he was ready. He's a novice, untrained, a blunt instrument. And this is where it appears the conflict between Superman and the supremely disciplined Batman will derive.

Also lets remember Superman II also ends with Superman killing Zod...after Zod's been depowered. And no one, least of all Superman, feels too bad about it after.
This has been my read on Man of Steel too. Zod's arrival forces Kal to reveal himself well before he was ready. He's a novice, untrained, a blunt instrument. And this is where it appears the conflict between Superman and the supremely disciplined Batman will derive.

Also lets remember Superman II also ends with Superman killing Zod...after Zod's been depowered. And no one, least of all Superman, feels too bad about it after.
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8:21PM on 10/28/2015
Yeah then Lois killed ursa right after.
Yeah then Lois killed ursa right after.
8:24PM on 10/28/2015
There are so many examples over the years of Superman killing in the comics. How many times has he killed Zod in the comics? Christ at the end of DKR he thought he killed Batman.
There are so many examples over the years of Superman killing in the comics. How many times has he killed Zod in the comics? Christ at the end of DKR he thought he killed Batman.
8:26PM on 10/28/2015
At far as Superman II goes, DOES Superman really KILL Zod and Friends? Or did the Arctic Police arrest them?
[link]
At far as Superman II goes, DOES Superman really KILL Zod and Friends? Or did the Arctic Police arrest them?
[link]
8:01PM on 10/28/2015
I like how many comments there've been along the lines of "Time out! Hey Zod, we should take this fight over there to that unpopulated area, or maybe duke it out on the moon." "Sure man."
I like how many comments there've been along the lines of "Time out! Hey Zod, we should take this fight over there to that unpopulated area, or maybe duke it out on the moon." "Sure man."
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8:19PM on 10/28/2015
But god forbid anyone says that about the mass destruction in the Avengers movies.
But god forbid anyone says that about the mass destruction in the Avengers movies.
8:45PM on 10/28/2015
Let's not bring The Avengers movies into it, all they do in those two Avengers movies is try to contain threats and save civilians. The portal opens in The Avengers and Cap is giving out orders for Stark and Thor to contain the threat, Hawkeye and Widow move civilians out of the target area on the ground, telling police to get civilians to a safe area outside of the combat zone, etc.

And Iron Man spends a large chunk of Avengers 2 trying to contain Banner from murdering half of Brazil,
Let's not bring The Avengers movies into it, all they do in those two Avengers movies is try to contain threats and save civilians. The portal opens in The Avengers and Cap is giving out orders for Stark and Thor to contain the threat, Hawkeye and Widow move civilians out of the target area on the ground, telling police to get civilians to a safe area outside of the combat zone, etc.

And Iron Man spends a large chunk of Avengers 2 trying to contain Banner from murdering half of Brazil, checking building are empty before dropping Hulk through them, and the entire climax of that movie is them saving lives, Hawkeye saving a boy is literally what gets one Avenger killed.
11:46PM on 10/28/2015
Admittedly, they could have thrown in a shot or two of Superman saving someone from a falling building or something, but as far as Goyer's comments go, I pretty much agree with him. And as for the Avengers, yeah, they did include the one or two scenes of saving civilians which was nice, but in the second one I actually remember thinking to myself in the theatre, "This battle was definitely written this way to avoid all the shit that MoS caught about destruction and dead civilians".
Admittedly, they could have thrown in a shot or two of Superman saving someone from a falling building or something, but as far as Goyer's comments go, I pretty much agree with him. And as for the Avengers, yeah, they did include the one or two scenes of saving civilians which was nice, but in the second one I actually remember thinking to myself in the theatre, "This battle was definitely written this way to avoid all the shit that MoS caught about destruction and dead civilians".
7:57PM on 10/28/2015
I had no problem with the ending of Man of Steel. It was Clark learning and trying to be Superman while being Superman. Would it have been nice to see some more heroic moments of Clark saving other civilians during the ending.....sure. But I thought the ending we got made perfect sense in terms of the story the film was telling and its origins.
I had no problem with the ending of Man of Steel. It was Clark learning and trying to be Superman while being Superman. Would it have been nice to see some more heroic moments of Clark saving other civilians during the ending.....sure. But I thought the ending we got made perfect sense in terms of the story the film was telling and its origins.
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+1
7:56PM on 10/28/2015
Agreed. With all it's faults I never found Man Of Steel dark or moody or anything everyone has bitched about. It was about a guy that is becoming Superman. He's not there yet. It was about Clark becoming Superman. Were you good at your job right off the bat? No it takes time to become a professional. Even if you are this being from Krypton. Read Batman Year One. Even the Batman made a shit ton of mistakes when he first started.
Agreed. With all it's faults I never found Man Of Steel dark or moody or anything everyone has bitched about. It was about a guy that is becoming Superman. He's not there yet. It was about Clark becoming Superman. Were you good at your job right off the bat? No it takes time to become a professional. Even if you are this being from Krypton. Read Batman Year One. Even the Batman made a shit ton of mistakes when he first started.
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