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Will Batman break his cardinal rule in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice?

01.27.2016

Batman's refusal to kill is one aspect which makes the hero the man he is, but has the caped crusader become so jaded in BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE that he's tossed his once cardinal rule out the door? BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE producer Charles Roven spoke with Empire Magazine recently and hinted that Ben Affleck's Batman will go further than any of the previous cinematic iterations of the character.

[Batman] is not giving people a chance, he is more than a vigilante. He has become not only the cop, if you will, he has also become the jury and executioner.

While Batman's past isn't without the odd murder or two, I doubt that Batman is actually going to straight up kill the bad guys in BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE, but we're definitely going to be presented with a Batman who has seen more horrors in his life than the average vigilante. Roven claims that Batman's grim aspect on life comes from seeing "the worst of what man can do. He’s been darkened by it, he’s tougher, he’s angrier, I guess. He’s still lost those that are near and dear to him, and not necessarily from old age or disease.” I suspect we're not going to see too many Bat-Smiles from Bruce Wayne this time around.

BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE will hit theaters on March 25, 2016.

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Source: Empire

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2:48AM on 01/29/2016

He kills a dude with a machine gun in Miller's TDKR

There's a part in The Dark Knight Returns when a criminal is holding a baby hostage and he says something like, "I'll kill the baby, I mean it!" Then Batman takes a machine gun off the ground and shoots the criminal. As the victim flies out the window, Batman catches the baby into his arms and says "I believe you." It's not an unprecedented event.
There's a part in The Dark Knight Returns when a criminal is holding a baby hostage and he says something like, "I'll kill the baby, I mean it!" Then Batman takes a machine gun off the ground and shoots the criminal. As the victim flies out the window, Batman catches the baby into his arms and says "I believe you." It's not an unprecedented event.
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1:11AM on 01/29/2016
I'm liking everything so far. This is going to be a much darker Batman than we have seen in the past and I am down with that

And not to be "That Nerd" but the Joker actually snaps his own neck in The Dark Knight Returns. Batman had the opportunity but Joker's last thing to do before he dies is to make it look like Bats murdered him. Psychotic but genius
I'm liking everything so far. This is going to be a much darker Batman than we have seen in the past and I am down with that

And not to be "That Nerd" but the Joker actually snaps his own neck in The Dark Knight Returns. Batman had the opportunity but Joker's last thing to do before he dies is to make it look like Bats murdered him. Psychotic but genius
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11:39AM on 01/28/2016

Batman kills (in the movies)

People freak out and say oh Batman would never kill anyone, yet in both Tim Burton movies he kills a dozen of people!! First movie he kills a bunch of them with a bomb he drops in a power plant, then shoots a bunch of them with his Batplane, then throws a guy off the tower to his death with his legs. The second movie he lights a thug on fire with the Batmobile and lastly he straps a bomb to a big thug throws him in the gutter as it explodes. I love Batman he is one of my fav heros but to say he
People freak out and say oh Batman would never kill anyone, yet in both Tim Burton movies he kills a dozen of people!! First movie he kills a bunch of them with a bomb he drops in a power plant, then shoots a bunch of them with his Batplane, then throws a guy off the tower to his death with his legs. The second movie he lights a thug on fire with the Batmobile and lastly he straps a bomb to a big thug throws him in the gutter as it explodes. I love Batman he is one of my fav heros but to say he has never killed is stupid, and people love those movies which shows it's really not that big of a deal with people unless they are idiots like the people who comment here a lot....
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6:44PM on 01/28/2016
Even in the Nolan movies, the only reason he didn't kill is because he was ridiculously lucky. Those batpod missiles couldn't cause explosions that large and NOT be deadly. Yet he just fires them with reckless abandon
Even in the Nolan movies, the only reason he didn't kill is because he was ridiculously lucky. Those batpod missiles couldn't cause explosions that large and NOT be deadly. Yet he just fires them with reckless abandon
9:05PM on 01/28/2016
He also kills in the comics and graphic novels. I actually don't know when this Batman doesn't kill thing starter.
He also kills in the comics and graphic novels. I actually don't know when this Batman doesn't kill thing starter.
9:05AM on 01/28/2016
But maybe it's not a matter of he's become a killer and just murders any criminal if he sees fit. Maybe it's more of a matter that he's been forced to break his rule and as a result has pushed him further towards becoming angry and jaded at the world. He carries a tremendous amount of guilt for having broken his one rule.

I don't know. I just can't see the producers, writers, and director making the decision to have Batman willingly kill anyone that crosses his path. After the backlash
But maybe it's not a matter of he's become a killer and just murders any criminal if he sees fit. Maybe it's more of a matter that he's been forced to break his rule and as a result has pushed him further towards becoming angry and jaded at the world. He carries a tremendous amount of guilt for having broken his one rule.

I don't know. I just can't see the producers, writers, and director making the decision to have Batman willingly kill anyone that crosses his path. After the backlash from audiences over Superman killing Zod in MoS (who doesn't even have a rule about killing people), there would be an even bigger uproar about Batman killing people - the entire foundation of his character is based on not crossing that line. So I just think this might be a case where people are taking a comment out of context.
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8:55AM on 01/28/2016
If there's a core trait to Batman it's not specifically that he doesn't kill (though he goes way beyond any reasonable degree to avoid it) but that he doesn't use guns. I know in early Batman stories he was packing heat, but the character has developed into what most people consider "Batman" since then, and the no guns rule is a line I'd rather any cinematic iteration didn't cross, and when I say gun I mean firearms spewing lead bullets as opposed to that weird EMP shotgun he was toting in The
If there's a core trait to Batman it's not specifically that he doesn't kill (though he goes way beyond any reasonable degree to avoid it) but that he doesn't use guns. I know in early Batman stories he was packing heat, but the character has developed into what most people consider "Batman" since then, and the no guns rule is a line I'd rather any cinematic iteration didn't cross, and when I say gun I mean firearms spewing lead bullets as opposed to that weird EMP shotgun he was toting in The Dark Knight Rises. I think / hope their aim with Affleck's portrayal is to give people the impression that he's been through a lot and is colder and less tolerant than how he might have been seen previously - the trailer suggests he's maybe been linked to branding criminals with the bat symbol - if that's the case then yeah he's in a pretty dark place, but hopefully not just straight-up snappin' bad guys' necks because he's too grumpy to merely subdue criminals anymore. Wayne has to draw the line somewhere - it's Batman, not Death Wish.
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9:43AM on 01/28/2016
I agree with you darkstrEam. Batman doesn't carry a gun. Not that he can't use one, and very effectively I might add, but he doesn't carry one.
I agree with you darkstrEam. Batman doesn't carry a gun. Not that he can't use one, and very effectively I might add, but he doesn't carry one.
6:47PM on 01/28/2016
Red Hood was the only modern storyline where he picked up a gun wasn't it? And it was a pretty huge deal if I recall
Red Hood was the only modern storyline where he picked up a gun wasn't it? And it was a pretty huge deal if I recall
7:13PM on 01/28/2016
@Grand_Marquis...I haven't read all of the Red Hood storyline. But I know that in the small homage story that Alex Ross did featuring the "World's Finest" team, Superman trusts him enough to give him a special Kryptonite dart to shoot him if he ever gets "mind controlled". Nice little story, that is only a few pages long if you haven't read it. May be online somewhere.

It's not that Batman doesn't know how to use a gun...he just doesn't use one.
@Grand_Marquis...I haven't read all of the Red Hood storyline. But I know that in the small homage story that Alex Ross did featuring the "World's Finest" team, Superman trusts him enough to give him a special Kryptonite dart to shoot him if he ever gets "mind controlled". Nice little story, that is only a few pages long if you haven't read it. May be online somewhere.

It's not that Batman doesn't know how to use a gun...he just doesn't use one.
3:04AM on 01/28/2016
I hope he does.
I hope he does.
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+5
1:25AM on 01/28/2016

What Cardinal rule?!

I get that most everyone thinks that Superman and Batman dont kill anyone..

But... in the Comics they have, and in graphic novels they have.. They have killed villains before? Sep with his Batman being very similar to "the Dark Knight Returns" (SPOILER) [link] He actually kills Joker in that story line, and EVERYONE loves that story line! So if Batman does in this version i dont really see the problem, and i dont see how anyone else could either?!
I get that most everyone thinks that Superman and Batman dont kill anyone..

But... in the Comics they have, and in graphic novels they have.. They have killed villains before? Sep with his Batman being very similar to "the Dark Knight Returns" (SPOILER) [link] He actually kills Joker in that story line, and EVERYONE loves that story line! So if Batman does in this version i dont really see the problem, and i dont see how anyone else could either?!
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2:04AM on 01/28/2016
Batman does not kill the Joker in the DKR. (came close) I don't know any canon story which Batman kills anyone. Year One makes it very clear that he does not kill to avoid anyone to go through what he did. And regarding Superman, the one time Superman became an executioner, the trauma was such that he developed a second personality. And then the issue is pressed again in the excellent Action Comics #775 where Superman who doesn't kill goes against the Elite who has no problem killing bad guys
Batman does not kill the Joker in the DKR. (came close) I don't know any canon story which Batman kills anyone. Year One makes it very clear that he does not kill to avoid anyone to go through what he did. And regarding Superman, the one time Superman became an executioner, the trauma was such that he developed a second personality. And then the issue is pressed again in the excellent Action Comics #775 where Superman who doesn't kill goes against the Elite who has no problem killing bad guys (a popular trend those days with books like the Authority and Wolverine) and he reminds the whole comic universe, What's so funny about Truth, Justice and the American Way... If there is one constant for Superman and Batman is that they don't kill. One of the reasons they are the two most popular heroes on the planet.
9:03AM on 01/28/2016
Deathstroke Knows His Comics.
Deathstroke Knows His Comics.
10:19AM on 01/28/2016
Rude.
Rude.
10:19AM on 01/28/2016
Deathstroke936: In the early Bob Kane comics, Batman would punish criminals by throwing them off a building. It's only when DC complained about the violence that his code was included in the comics

Dundee, Heero is the one who brought up The Dark Knight Returns and who said erroneously that Batman killed the Joker in it. The fact that Deathstroke936 read the same comic and remember it better does not mean that one has more of a life than the other.
Deathstroke936: In the early Bob Kane comics, Batman would punish criminals by throwing them off a building. It's only when DC complained about the violence that his code was included in the comics

Dundee, Heero is the one who brought up The Dark Knight Returns and who said erroneously that Batman killed the Joker in it. The fact that Deathstroke936 read the same comic and remember it better does not mean that one has more of a life than the other.
11:34AM on 01/28/2016
Erroneous, as in "I've finally found the missing ingredient for Eggs Erroneous! A fat juicy rabbit with all it's shots!". That was from Earnest Goes To Camp!
Erroneous, as in "I've finally found the missing ingredient for Eggs Erroneous! A fat juicy rabbit with all it's shots!". That was from Earnest Goes To Camp!
12:04PM on 01/28/2016
Ugh why is it so hard for people to debate or offer opinions politely.. Play nice guys

The drama is real.. Ok real quick here stroker..

Batman has killed the following people over his career. Joker (killing joke - to which the writer and creator publicly posted that it was their final battle and that he killed the joker), darkseid (final crisis)
Superman kills zod and the phantom criminals.. You know what just google it. yes a lot of the incidents where they kill are always later
Ugh why is it so hard for people to debate or offer opinions politely.. Play nice guys

The drama is real.. Ok real quick here stroker..

Batman has killed the following people over his career. Joker (killing joke - to which the writer and creator publicly posted that it was their final battle and that he killed the joker), darkseid (final crisis)
Superman kills zod and the phantom criminals.. You know what just google it. yes a lot of the incidents where they kill are always later covered with ways to explain how they didn't. But that's just so they could bring characters back, as well as generate sales for ending stories and starting new ones. I thought that was obvious ?

Or I'm wrong, by believing the creators and authors of these stories are wrong?
3:54PM on 01/28/2016
Well, it seems ironic that people that come to a geek site, feel the need to boast about their street cred. I'm 47, enlisted during the Golf War, became an engineer, have a family and been working at Boeing for 20 years but somehow having some comic book knowledge and my "writing???" makes me the equivalent of a loser living in my parents basement. Perhaps writing this makes me petty, but the Bronx upbringing in me makes me really mad when some moron feels the need to question my manhood. I'm
Well, it seems ironic that people that come to a geek site, feel the need to boast about their street cred. I'm 47, enlisted during the Golf War, became an engineer, have a family and been working at Boeing for 20 years but somehow having some comic book knowledge and my "writing???" makes me the equivalent of a loser living in my parents basement. Perhaps writing this makes me petty, but the Bronx upbringing in me makes me really mad when some moron feels the need to question my manhood. I'm not the one with the need of putting knives on other peoples penis' (that kind of writing is really telling...) Well, now that I got this of my chest... apology accepted Mik Dundee.
7:29PM on 01/28/2016
Right on Deathstroker936! Thanks for accepting my apology. I too served in the Army, for 10 years before being medically retired due to injuries sustained in Iraq. Now at 35, I enjoy my retirement with my wife and 2 kids. I Didn't mean to offend you or question your man hood, I just thought it was an insane amount of comic info, it's actually awesome that you know all that. I too have collected comics and figures since I was a child. I recently re-aquired my favorite toys, The Super Powers
Right on Deathstroker936! Thanks for accepting my apology. I too served in the Army, for 10 years before being medically retired due to injuries sustained in Iraq. Now at 35, I enjoy my retirement with my wife and 2 kids. I Didn't mean to offend you or question your man hood, I just thought it was an insane amount of comic info, it's actually awesome that you know all that. I too have collected comics and figures since I was a child. I recently re-aquired my favorite toys, The Super Powers figures from Kenner 1984-86. Cost me a fortune but worth it to geek out! I was also not disrespecting your writing, I merely meant that you wrote extensively about the comic subject matter. There's nothing wrong with your writing. This is a simple case of ball busting, over and done. I wish the best to you and your family.
9:04PM on 01/29/2016
Wanted to express my deepest respect and support for both of your service records.

Also wanted to chime in and say that Batman killing Darkside is one of the things I most want to see make it into the movies most. It's one of the characters coolest moments despite coming from a really not that great comic.
Wanted to express my deepest respect and support for both of your service records.

Also wanted to chime in and say that Batman killing Darkside is one of the things I most want to see make it into the movies most. It's one of the characters coolest moments despite coming from a really not that great comic.
+2
10:08PM on 01/27/2016
Not a Man Of Steel hater (I enjoyed it) but hey after that movie broke the cardinal rule and if supes could do it, why not batman? If anything I'd expect that from Batman waaay before I'd expect it from Superman. Either way this is an older, broken Batman with no fucks given after all. I can dig it. Why not? Fuck it. I'm tired of seeing the boyscout, serpico type Batman. If it's something new that shows us Bruce is a man with flaws and a dark side, I'd be all for that. But it has to fit right
Not a Man Of Steel hater (I enjoyed it) but hey after that movie broke the cardinal rule and if supes could do it, why not batman? If anything I'd expect that from Batman waaay before I'd expect it from Superman. Either way this is an older, broken Batman with no fucks given after all. I can dig it. Why not? Fuck it. I'm tired of seeing the boyscout, serpico type Batman. If it's something new that shows us Bruce is a man with flaws and a dark side, I'd be all for that. But it has to fit right with the story and character. The problem with MOS is that it just didn't seem right. If this story chooses to follow Jason Todd being "murdered" by The Joker then I can totally see Batman losing it in a real sort of context and branding motherfuckers with Bat symbols and shit. Again, people need to understand that this iteration of Batman just doesn't give any fucks.
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+0
9:14PM on 01/27/2016
if Batman breaks his rule, then the rumor that the solo Batman film being about Red Hood will make no sense. or at least undermined.
if Batman breaks his rule, then the rumor that the solo Batman film being about Red Hood will make no sense. or at least undermined.
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10:15PM on 01/27/2016
Not necessarily. Let's say in this film Todd has been "murdered" causing Bruce to go all Punisher then if the solo Batman film is a sequel or side story to BVS then it works. Red Hood could be introduced and by the end people will think of that particular storyline involving you know who in BVS and their minds will be blown. I think it'd make a fitting sequel/standalone movie. It would just have to take place either way before the Justice League movie in terms of storyline or it would have to
Not necessarily. Let's say in this film Todd has been "murdered" causing Bruce to go all Punisher then if the solo Batman film is a sequel or side story to BVS then it works. Red Hood could be introduced and by the end people will think of that particular storyline involving you know who in BVS and their minds will be blown. I think it'd make a fitting sequel/standalone movie. It would just have to take place either way before the Justice League movie in terms of storyline or it would have to take place simultaneously around the same timeframe of BvS. Maybe all the Robin shit in BvS is just flashbacks showing why Bruce is now the way he is and the stand alone Red Hood story can take place before BvS.
12:35AM on 01/28/2016
I think his point is that the main reason Red Hood went on a rampage against Batman was because he was so pissed that Batman didn't avenge his death by killing the Joker. If Batman is okay with killing some criminals, he DEFINITELY would have killed the Joker after he killed Jason Todd, and the Red Hood story totally changes.
I think his point is that the main reason Red Hood went on a rampage against Batman was because he was so pissed that Batman didn't avenge his death by killing the Joker. If Batman is okay with killing some criminals, he DEFINITELY would have killed the Joker after he killed Jason Todd, and the Red Hood story totally changes.
8:54PM on 01/27/2016
"Ben Affleck's Batman will go further than any of the previous cinematic iterations of the character.".....Didn't Michael Keaton's Batman kill the Joker by tethering is leg to 200lb gargoyle causing him to fall to his death? I also believe Keaton's Batman ended up killing the Penguin in the sequel. I also STRONGLY remember George Clooney's Batman killing the ENTIRE DC CINEMATIC UNIVERSE!
"Ben Affleck's Batman will go further than any of the previous cinematic iterations of the character.".....Didn't Michael Keaton's Batman kill the Joker by tethering is leg to 200lb gargoyle causing him to fall to his death? I also believe Keaton's Batman ended up killing the Penguin in the sequel. I also STRONGLY remember George Clooney's Batman killing the ENTIRE DC CINEMATIC UNIVERSE!
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9:28PM on 01/27/2016
The mass murdering bastard!
The mass murdering bastard!
9:41PM on 01/27/2016
i get your joke, but 4 solo Batman movies does not make a DC Cinematic Universe.
i get your joke, but 4 solo Batman movies does not make a DC Cinematic Universe.
8:49PM on 01/27/2016
I know that's Batman's moral code, but I wouldn't have a problem seeing this interpretation of Batman kill a few criminals this time around since he's a bit grizzled and older. Perhaps after the events of this film, he'll change his course of action to not to after fighting and learning from Superman.
I know that's Batman's moral code, but I wouldn't have a problem seeing this interpretation of Batman kill a few criminals this time around since he's a bit grizzled and older. Perhaps after the events of this film, he'll change his course of action to not to after fighting and learning from Superman.
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