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Selma's Ava DuVernay reportedly being eyed to direct a Marvel movie

05.13.2015

Captain Marvel Black Panther Ava DuVernay

A few months ago SELMA and MIDDLE OF NOWHERE director Ava DuVernay said she's open to helming a Marvel movie, and now The Wrap is reporting that the studio wants her for one of their "diverse superhero movies."

Sources tell the site that "Marvel is intent on hiring an African-American director for “Black Panther” and a female filmmaker for “Captain Marvel," and insiders say Duvernay is most likely being eyed for the former, although it's also possible she's being considered for both projects. Marvel is considering other directors, but The Wrap says "there is mutual interest in having her join the MCU."

While some will see this as a stunt hiring, perhaps Marvel just really believes that Ava DuVernay is the right person for the job. But now the question is which job is it, and will she take the gig?

BLACK PANTHER will be in theaters on July 6, 2018, and CAPTAIN MARVEL is scheduled to open on November 2, 2018.

Source: The Wrap

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4:42PM on 05/13/2015

Bloody Marvel Studios!

How dare they consider hiring a hot, up and coming, award-winning indie director whose first 3 films have been highly acclaimed by critics and whose most recent feature was a sizable hit relative to its budget? We don't even know for sure which film she's being considered for and have no possible way of knowing what part of her filmography or vision synched with Marvel's vision for their cinematic universe, but she's UNPROVEN in the realm of big budget superhero movies so this is clearly just a
How dare they consider hiring a hot, up and coming, award-winning indie director whose first 3 films have been highly acclaimed by critics and whose most recent feature was a sizable hit relative to its budget? We don't even know for sure which film she's being considered for and have no possible way of knowing what part of her filmography or vision synched with Marvel's vision for their cinematic universe, but she's UNPROVEN in the realm of big budget superhero movies so this is clearly just a PR stunt aimed at diversifying Marvel's behind-the-lens roster.

And it stinks!

Reminds me of when they hired those other unproven wildcards Kenneth Branagh ("THOR"), James Gunn ("GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY"), Shane Black ("IRONMAN 3") and the Russo Brothers ("CAPTAIN AMERICA: WINTER SOLDIER"). And don't even get me started on Joss Whedon, that over-hyped TV show runner, whose only cinematic directing credit before "The Avengers" was a huge flop only fanboys turned up to see! Why can't Marvel ever get anything right??

I don't know what movie they might be considering Ms DuVernay for or how being a woman or being black might have any influence on that choice but at this point, I don't wanna know. My mind's made up... I'm skipping whatever it turns out to be cos I'm not interested in being one of these open-minded, objective progressives interested in seeing what someone other than a white male director can add to the wildly expansive realm of comic book movies.

Count me out.
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7:26PM on 05/13/2015
Er....her first two films scored 6.2 out of 10 ratings. She's unknown in the realm of anything other than niche films (all involving mostly black casts). Then she made a movie where she completely misrepresented history to push a racial ideology then publicly stated she didn't want a white guy (LBJ) getting too much of the credit.

I hardly think noticing those facts makes people worthy of scorn.
Er....her first two films scored 6.2 out of 10 ratings. She's unknown in the realm of anything other than niche films (all involving mostly black casts). Then she made a movie where she completely misrepresented history to push a racial ideology then publicly stated she didn't want a white guy (LBJ) getting too much of the credit.

I hardly think noticing those facts makes people worthy of scorn.
8:20PM on 05/13/2015
Bantu, well said!
Bantu, well said!
3:55PM on 05/13/2015

The Punisher

C'mon its been a while! Set the story in New Orleans using the Huricane Katrina carnage as a bleak backdrop where Frank Castle has kicking ass and taking names on the trail of a MMA Voodoo-wannabe Cajun baddie and have Scott Adkins in the title role.
C'mon its been a while! Set the story in New Orleans using the Huricane Katrina carnage as a bleak backdrop where Frank Castle has kicking ass and taking names on the trail of a MMA Voodoo-wannabe Cajun baddie and have Scott Adkins in the title role.
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3:20PM on 05/13/2015
Forced diversity isn't diversity. Picking someone who is right for the job regardless of color or sex is the what society should strive for. This line of thinking that only a black person could direct and tell the story of Black Panther or only a woman could tell the story of Ms Marvel is complete shit. By that line of thinking, only a man can tell a story that men a man is a lead in, and only white person should tell the story when a white person is in the lead. Saying those last two is just
Forced diversity isn't diversity. Picking someone who is right for the job regardless of color or sex is the what society should strive for. This line of thinking that only a black person could direct and tell the story of Black Panther or only a woman could tell the story of Ms Marvel is complete shit. By that line of thinking, only a man can tell a story that men a man is a lead in, and only white person should tell the story when a white person is in the lead. Saying those last two is just as stupid and ridiculous as what Marvel is openly saying here. Marvel is basically saying here that "Hey we are being diverse...by being racist and misandrist". Its sad really. Do I believe that things need to be more inclusive? Yup absolutely. However when a field of potential talent has to be culled for no other reason than sex or race than that is in fact the opposite of what society should hold itself to be.
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2:29PM on 05/13/2015
I don't believe whether you hire a female or black filmmaker that it's a sign of diversity, same goes for when a characters race comes into question. A person should be hired because they are the right person for the job & not because of race, sex, sexuality, etc, the way Hollywood conducts itself in this manner is the very definition of hypocrisy. We as a society simply allow it because we have no say in the matter.
I don't believe whether you hire a female or black filmmaker that it's a sign of diversity, same goes for when a characters race comes into question. A person should be hired because they are the right person for the job & not because of race, sex, sexuality, etc, the way Hollywood conducts itself in this manner is the very definition of hypocrisy. We as a society simply allow it because we have no say in the matter.
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2:54PM on 05/13/2015
It's this line of thinking that will keep Hollywood the way it is. We're talking about art here, not a management position at Jimmy John's. Art, especially popular art, needs more diversity. If you let the same type of people from the same type of places direct your films you'll get the same type of movies. Film-making is not just a "job" its an art-form, it's a form of self expression. The whole "right person for the job" argument, when it comes to film, is irrelevant.
It's this line of thinking that will keep Hollywood the way it is. We're talking about art here, not a management position at Jimmy John's. Art, especially popular art, needs more diversity. If you let the same type of people from the same type of places direct your films you'll get the same type of movies. Film-making is not just a "job" its an art-form, it's a form of self expression. The whole "right person for the job" argument, when it comes to film, is irrelevant.
3:18PM on 05/13/2015
So you believe that people should be hired solely on the basis of the color of their skin because they are "artists," and we all know that art can only be diverse if it's created by people of the correct color?

Wow....did you even read your post?
So you believe that people should be hired solely on the basis of the color of their skin because they are "artists," and we all know that art can only be diverse if it's created by people of the correct color?

Wow....did you even read your post?
3:37PM on 05/13/2015
I don't mean to get crude here. But, since this is just a movie site after all, eat a dick. eat many dicks.
I don't mean to get crude here. But, since this is just a movie site after all, eat a dick. eat many dicks.
2:22PM on 05/13/2015
I would like to retract my previous post from down below. At first I thought it would be fine to have her direct, but considering her track record really hasn't been that great and shows that she probably wouldn't be experienced enough with a film of this size and caliber.

And the fact that Marvel would specifically want an African American director helming a African American superhero movie seems like really forced, cliched, negative PR.

Now if Marvel did want to hire an African
I would like to retract my previous post from down below. At first I thought it would be fine to have her direct, but considering her track record really hasn't been that great and shows that she probably wouldn't be experienced enough with a film of this size and caliber.

And the fact that Marvel would specifically want an African American director helming a African American superhero movie seems like really forced, cliched, negative PR.

Now if Marvel did want to hire an African American director for Black Panther, then my choice would be for Steve McQueen. All of his films have been terrific and the guy, in my opinion would have the range for this type of film.
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2:28PM on 05/13/2015
"...but considering her track record really hasn't been that great and shows that she probably wouldn't be experienced enough with a film of this size and caliber."

People were literally saying the same exact thing about the Russo brothers. And James Gunn. And even Jon Favreau back in the day. At this point, I think Marvel's earned themselves the benefit of the doubt with who they tab for their movies. They know what they're doing.
"...but considering her track record really hasn't been that great and shows that she probably wouldn't be experienced enough with a film of this size and caliber."

People were literally saying the same exact thing about the Russo brothers. And James Gunn. And even Jon Favreau back in the day. At this point, I think Marvel's earned themselves the benefit of the doubt with who they tab for their movies. They know what they're doing.
3:06PM on 05/13/2015
Steve McQueen? Yes, I'm sure Marvel would love an arthouse superhero movie and I'm sure McQueen would just be chomping at the bit to join the Marvel universe. That really makes sense.

Regardless, I'm sure if Ava got hired, she'd eventually be replaced due to creative differences so it's a moot point. If they could not make things work with Edgar Wright, I'm sure they couldn't make things work with a director with Ava' sensibilities.
Steve McQueen? Yes, I'm sure Marvel would love an arthouse superhero movie and I'm sure McQueen would just be chomping at the bit to join the Marvel universe. That really makes sense.

Regardless, I'm sure if Ava got hired, she'd eventually be replaced due to creative differences so it's a moot point. If they could not make things work with Edgar Wright, I'm sure they couldn't make things work with a director with Ava' sensibilities.
3:21PM on 05/13/2015
I agree with you here, especially with Steve McQueen. This whole racial/gender race for who can be the most diverse with their directors is only becoming bad PR rather than a step forward.

It is like shoving everyone's face into a flesh wound but the friction is only going to make the wound worse.
I agree with you here, especially with Steve McQueen. This whole racial/gender race for who can be the most diverse with their directors is only becoming bad PR rather than a step forward.

It is like shoving everyone's face into a flesh wound but the friction is only going to make the wound worse.
11:26PM on 05/13/2015
One little note for you: Steve McQueen isn't African American

He's black. African American would imply that he is of African descent born in the US. But he was born and raised in the UK. Not sure about his descent, London has a large Jamaican and Hatian population. But he isn't African American.

He would make a suitable Director for Black Panther, but i still think Duvernay would be better. Basing this completely off the films of theirs i have seen, i think Duvernay is better at directing
One little note for you: Steve McQueen isn't African American

He's black. African American would imply that he is of African descent born in the US. But he was born and raised in the UK. Not sure about his descent, London has a large Jamaican and Hatian population. But he isn't African American.

He would make a suitable Director for Black Panther, but i still think Duvernay would be better. Basing this completely off the films of theirs i have seen, i think Duvernay is better at directing large scenes while McQueen is a more intimate director.

Spike Lee would be a bold choice, but there is a stigma around him and his style i'm guessing Marvel would want to avoid. John Singleton would be good. but my number one pick for Black Panther would be Antoine Fuqua.
2:09PM on 05/13/2015
If Tim Burton wants to hire the same actors in all his movies, so be it. If Marvel Studios wants to hire an up and coming African American woman director for a movie about an African superhero, I'm not against it either. Producers, studios, and directors call for Caucasian males/females in movies all the time. This is Hollywood this is what goes on everyday. I'm not going to sit here and be okay with it when it happens to one group but become upset when it happens to another.

Just get the
If Tim Burton wants to hire the same actors in all his movies, so be it. If Marvel Studios wants to hire an up and coming African American woman director for a movie about an African superhero, I'm not against it either. Producers, studios, and directors call for Caucasian males/females in movies all the time. This is Hollywood this is what goes on everyday. I'm not going to sit here and be okay with it when it happens to one group but become upset when it happens to another.

Just get the movie made. At the end of the day, most of these directors don't make much of a difference to the quality of these comic book movies. Thor was directed by Kenneth Branagh and that movie was meh. Typically they're just following someone else vision anyway.
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1:54PM on 05/13/2015
Turns out she's directing "Inhumans", didn't see that one coming

yeah i could see how people are on edge of them needing to hire a black person for Black Panther, or a female director for Captain Marvel. But so long as the director is good, it doesnt bother me that much. The Black Panther movie is probably gonna deal with race. That is the elephant in the room with having the first mainstream black superhero movie since Blade. So someone who has excellent experience telling a story about a
Turns out she's directing "Inhumans", didn't see that one coming

yeah i could see how people are on edge of them needing to hire a black person for Black Panther, or a female director for Captain Marvel. But so long as the director is good, it doesnt bother me that much. The Black Panther movie is probably gonna deal with race. That is the elephant in the room with having the first mainstream black superhero movie since Blade. So someone who has excellent experience telling a story about a powerful man dealing with race issues, Duvernay covers that with ease.
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1:35PM on 05/13/2015
I wish someone could explain to me why the "best person for the job" somehow CAN'T be a black woman. Why doesn't this "best person for the job" strawman ever come up when we're talking about white male directors being eyed for other movies? Nothing is being "forced" here. DeVernay is CLEARLY a talented director with a proven track record, and yes, her personal experiences and inherent knowledge of her culture means she'd have a unique vision for a Black Panther movie that would inevitably deal
I wish someone could explain to me why the "best person for the job" somehow CAN'T be a black woman. Why doesn't this "best person for the job" strawman ever come up when we're talking about white male directors being eyed for other movies? Nothing is being "forced" here. DeVernay is CLEARLY a talented director with a proven track record, and yes, her personal experiences and inherent knowledge of her culture means she'd have a unique vision for a Black Panther movie that would inevitably deal with many of the same issues. I don't see the need for everybody to be looking towards the heavens and clutching their pearls here. This would be a TREMENDOUS get for any Marvel movie, but especially for Black Panther. And there's nothing wrong with that, either.
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1:57PM on 05/13/2015
It CAN be a black woman... except where you say she has a proven track record... Selma (her "Track Record") was a boring piece of garbage that people made in to a race issue in america when it didnt get nominated... yet it wasnt nominated because this Black Woman made a very boring movie. The racist people in this country are the ones saying people deserve things based solely on what color their skin is and not the work or talent they have, they are also the ones that call every one else racist
It CAN be a black woman... except where you say she has a proven track record... Selma (her "Track Record") was a boring piece of garbage that people made in to a race issue in america when it didnt get nominated... yet it wasnt nominated because this Black Woman made a very boring movie. The racist people in this country are the ones saying people deserve things based solely on what color their skin is and not the work or talent they have, they are also the ones that call every one else racist when they disagree with a narrative that is in their own minds.
2:11PM on 05/13/2015
That's such a strawman argument, though. Nobody is going around and saying "Hey, my neighbor is black, so why can't THEY director Black Panther??" That'd be silly. People are saying that talented, qualified, capable people should be given these kinds of high-profile roles. That's all. And Ava DuVernay made a critically acclaimed film that dealt with layers upon layers of social issues that are scarily relevant today, and despite your particular thoughts on it, TONS of people loved that
That's such a strawman argument, though. Nobody is going around and saying "Hey, my neighbor is black, so why can't THEY director Black Panther??" That'd be silly. People are saying that talented, qualified, capable people should be given these kinds of high-profile roles. That's all. And Ava DuVernay made a critically acclaimed film that dealt with layers upon layers of social issues that are scarily relevant today, and despite your particular thoughts on it, TONS of people loved that movie.

Again, nobody (let alone Marvel) is saying that DuVernay should get this job simply because of the color of her skin. Just because you personally don't see the talent that she obviously possesses, doesn't mean everybody else thinks the same way. I'd say THAT, ironically enough, is the narrative that is in your own mind.
2:41PM on 05/13/2015
Argument is a stretch. it has come up MANY times for white directors. MOST OF THE TIME this site is reporting what white male directors are up for which mainstream films, because MOST OF THE TIME, white male directors are up for EVERY mainstream film. and people ALWAYS lose their shit. We're nerds, it's part of our DNA to get pissed about nothing. A couple of examples; Peyton Reed for Ant-Man, Colin Trevorrow for Jurassic World, Marc Webb for Spider-Man, the new short-list for
Argument is a stretch. it has come up MANY times for white directors. MOST OF THE TIME this site is reporting what white male directors are up for which mainstream films, because MOST OF THE TIME, white male directors are up for EVERY mainstream film. and people ALWAYS lose their shit. We're nerds, it's part of our DNA to get pissed about nothing. A couple of examples; Peyton Reed for Ant-Man, Colin Trevorrow for Jurassic World, Marc Webb for Spider-Man, the new short-list for spider-man.

The problem doesn't have anything to do with them being white, the problem is always their resume (or lack there of). I think people are wary of DeVernay because her resume suggests that she's incapable of this type of movie because she's never done one before. I don't think that's a fair argument, but I do understand the logic behind it. I liked Selma, didn't LOVE it, but DeVernay clearly has talent, so I don't think this would be necessarily a bad hire.

That having been said, I would rather see Antoine Fuqua's name come up. (now we can hop off the race argument and move straight ahead to sexism)
2:50PM on 05/13/2015
Again, though, with directors like Trevorrow or Webb or Reed, we NEVER saw such an influx of commenters going off about getting "the best person for the job". That strawman only rears its ugly head when women or minorities are involved, for whatever reason. You said it yourself, the problem didn't have anything to do with them being white directors who are directing white characters. But suddenly when it involves people of color directing people of color, or women directing women, suddenly
Again, though, with directors like Trevorrow or Webb or Reed, we NEVER saw such an influx of commenters going off about getting "the best person for the job". That strawman only rears its ugly head when women or minorities are involved, for whatever reason. You said it yourself, the problem didn't have anything to do with them being white directors who are directing white characters. But suddenly when it involves people of color directing people of color, or women directing women, suddenly everyone chimes in with "GET THE BEST PERSON FOR THE JOB, SCREW THIS PC BULLSHIT." It's hypocrisy at its finest.

Now of course, resumes and track records factor in. But also like you said, I agree that it's a bit unfair. How do people expand their resumes if every job NEEDS an extensive resume in the first place? Sometimes, you just have to take a risk with relatively unproven talent. And like I replied to The_Soloist above, Marvel has been stellar at picking unproven, out-of-leftfield talent and making it work. But at the end of the day, I think we agree on this topic more than we disagree, so I'll leave it at that.
3:11PM on 05/13/2015
Your posts are nonsensical. You talked about what a "great track record" this woman has, but it was pointed out she has one boring (slightly racist) movie to her credit and two lowly rated failures so you changed the subject. You talk about straw men, then frame others' arguments as "my neighbor is black so he could direct...."

And your claim that the "only time" the subject of someone's qualifications comes up is when they are a minority is idiotic. It happens all the time and only
Your posts are nonsensical. You talked about what a "great track record" this woman has, but it was pointed out she has one boring (slightly racist) movie to her credit and two lowly rated failures so you changed the subject. You talk about straw men, then frame others' arguments as "my neighbor is black so he could direct...."

And your claim that the "only time" the subject of someone's qualifications comes up is when they are a minority is idiotic. It happens all the time and only someone constantly butthurt about race issues tries to pretend it doesn't.
3:30PM on 05/13/2015
@Des1 Actually, I directly addressed SkyNet's opinion on Selma (which is the only problem in her filmography that he ever brought up). If you want to talk about her other "two lowly rated failures" I'd be more than happy to do so, but don't pretend like someone threw that in my face and that I changed the subject. I didn't. Hell, I even went into detail about how track records and extensive resumes should factor into these discussions too, so I haven't been avoiding anything.

And yes, I
@Des1 Actually, I directly addressed SkyNet's opinion on Selma (which is the only problem in her filmography that he ever brought up). If you want to talk about her other "two lowly rated failures" I'd be more than happy to do so, but don't pretend like someone threw that in my face and that I changed the subject. I didn't. Hell, I even went into detail about how track records and extensive resumes should factor into these discussions too, so I haven't been avoiding anything.

And yes, I confronted a strawman argument by likening it to an equally as ridiculous strawman. You DO know how debates and conversations work, correct? Using your logic, for example, we can't ever confront people who are making wild, baseless accusations by making wild, baseless accusations ourselves...even though that would actually a surefire way to show them how ridiculous they're being. Do you see how silly you're being, too?

In your rush to poke holes in my comments and somehow trap me in some kind of manufactured "Gotcha!" moment, you only did the same thing to yourself. If you'd entered into this debate in good faith, maybe we could've had a pleasant conversation about this. Instead, we end up with your ridiculously confrontational and irrational angry post, and I had to take valuable time to spell all this out to you like I'm talking to an elementary school student. Going forward, can we try to avoid something like this in the future?
4:42PM on 05/13/2015
No we can't, because you're incapable of a "pleasant conversation" (or certainly an honest one) according to your posts.

You made strawman arguments first (claiming this woman's lack of qualifications equates to a black woman being "unable" to be the right person). You tried the passive-aggressive thing with me (claiming I was angry and insulting, then yourself being angry and insulting). Finally, you didn't address the facts with SkyNet. He made a rational, cogent argument and you
No we can't, because you're incapable of a "pleasant conversation" (or certainly an honest one) according to your posts.

You made strawman arguments first (claiming this woman's lack of qualifications equates to a black woman being "unable" to be the right person). You tried the passive-aggressive thing with me (claiming I was angry and insulting, then yourself being angry and insulting). Finally, you didn't address the facts with SkyNet. He made a rational, cogent argument and you responded with a hysterical ranting strawman about black neighbors.

At no point in your posts have you made a single fact-based claim. You have simply thrown around racist implications (or outright allegations) against everyone who you disagree with.
4:44PM on 05/13/2015
BTW, when you claim that "best person for the job" is a strawman argument, you demonstrate the need to go read the dictionary to understand the actual definition.
BTW, when you claim that "best person for the job" is a strawman argument, you demonstrate the need to go read the dictionary to understand the actual definition.
4:50PM on 05/13/2015
I've interacted with and talked to at least 3 or 4 people on this entire comment thread, and Des, you're the ONLY one who's made this into some kind of personal vendetta. When I'm able to rationally and pleasantly converse with 2 or 3 other users just fine, yet I'm unable to do so with ONE person (you), what do you think that says? Does the problem lie herein with me, or you?

This is mentally exhausting, so I'll leave it at that. I'll ignore the fact that you conveniently chose not to
I've interacted with and talked to at least 3 or 4 people on this entire comment thread, and Des, you're the ONLY one who's made this into some kind of personal vendetta. When I'm able to rationally and pleasantly converse with 2 or 3 other users just fine, yet I'm unable to do so with ONE person (you), what do you think that says? Does the problem lie herein with me, or you?

This is mentally exhausting, so I'll leave it at that. I'll ignore the fact that you conveniently chose not to address a single one of my responses in my last comment, I'll ignore the borderline hysterical narrative that you're weaving inside your own head about my posts, I'll ignore the delicious irony in you telling me I'M incapable of pleasant conversation when YOU are the one who dove into this thread and made this into a problem in the first place, and I'll just leave it at that.
5:27PM on 05/13/2015
Is "Strawman" just a way of calling me a racist in a passive aggressive way?!

My problem with this woman is she made a movie that should have been entertaining and interesting and made it into an insanely boring piece of shit. And yes, the majority consensus is that the movie was not good. Sure some loved it, but even more didnt. And she was delusional when she got up in arms that she deserved to be oscar nominated for Selma just cuz she was a black woman.

But to back away from not liking her
Is "Strawman" just a way of calling me a racist in a passive aggressive way?!

My problem with this woman is she made a movie that should have been entertaining and interesting and made it into an insanely boring piece of shit. And yes, the majority consensus is that the movie was not good. Sure some loved it, but even more didnt. And she was delusional when she got up in arms that she deserved to be oscar nominated for Selma just cuz she was a black woman.

But to back away from not liking her cuz she is a racist: plain and simple she took what should have been a very interesting and enjoyable movie and turned it into shit, forgive me if i dont want her to rui a narvel movie. Im such a strawman!
6:59PM on 05/13/2015
Please, spare me your ignorant, self-righteous, faux outrage. Clearly you have no idea what a "strawman argument" actually is. It's not an personal insult or a slur. It means you're pulling something out of your ass and basing an entire argument out of that...it has NOTHING to do with being racist.

And once again...no. YOUR opinion is that Selma was shit. The majority, on the other hand, loved it. The consensus, including critics, is that it was a fantastic movie. And it's even more ignorant
Please, spare me your ignorant, self-righteous, faux outrage. Clearly you have no idea what a "strawman argument" actually is. It's not an personal insult or a slur. It means you're pulling something out of your ass and basing an entire argument out of that...it has NOTHING to do with being racist.

And once again...no. YOUR opinion is that Selma was shit. The majority, on the other hand, loved it. The consensus, including critics, is that it was a fantastic movie. And it's even more ignorant of you to try to portray HER as racist. Just because the movie made you slightly uncomfortable doesn't mean she's a racist. It's amazing how much you're intentionally misrepresenting the facts just to fit into your rationale.
7:30PM on 05/13/2015
Wow SB, it seems as though I'm not the only person who doesn't care for your demagoguery after-all.

"It means you're pulling something out of your ass and basing an entire argument out of that...it has NOTHING to do with being racist."

No, that's not what a "strawman argument" is. It's called a dictionary. Try it some time.
Wow SB, it seems as though I'm not the only person who doesn't care for your demagoguery after-all.

"It means you're pulling something out of your ass and basing an entire argument out of that...it has NOTHING to do with being racist."

No, that's not what a "strawman argument" is. It's called a dictionary. Try it some time.
8:32PM on 05/13/2015
Do enlighten me then, Des. By all means.
Do enlighten me then, Des. By all means.
11:31PM on 05/13/2015
A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on false representation of an opponent's argument.[1] To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.

The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or
A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on false representation of an opponent's argument.[1] To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.

The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.


In other words, you are putting words in your opponent's mouth, to avoid confronting the fact that you have no argument capable of disputing what he/she actually said. You know, kind of like your first post where you implied that people believed that "somehow CAN'T be a black woman" which no person I've ever seen has said. Then you followed it up by bizarrely stating, "
Nobody is going around and saying "Hey, my neighbor is black, so why can't THEY director Black Panther??", which literally had nothing to do with SkyNet's reply (nor anyone else's on this site).

My replies likewise gave no strawman arguments, I merely restated EXACTLY what you said (even put them in quotes), then explained why I disagreed. Yes, I said the statements were idiotic which wasn't nice, but I never said YOU were an idiot. The difference is even very smart people can say dumb things out of emotion (or ignorance of an issue), but there was literally no anger in my post.....your replies have each upped the hysteria quotient.

All people are saying is that this person isn't qualified for such a film based on her body of work (and her public racial comments). Why put a divisive person in charge of a $500 million dollar product?
12:11AM on 05/14/2015
I appreciate you spelling out the definition of "strawman" for all of us to see - but that still changes literally nothing about my point. The whole "best person for the job" thing is STILL a strawman, and SkyNet's reply to me was STILL a strawman. I don't know why this upsets YOU so much, though, because I never even said YOU were the one who was coming up with these strawman arguments.

Likewise, my first comment here wasn't a strawman, because the unspoken implication of everybody going on
I appreciate you spelling out the definition of "strawman" for all of us to see - but that still changes literally nothing about my point. The whole "best person for the job" thing is STILL a strawman, and SkyNet's reply to me was STILL a strawman. I don't know why this upsets YOU so much, though, because I never even said YOU were the one who was coming up with these strawman arguments.

Likewise, my first comment here wasn't a strawman, because the unspoken implication of everybody going on about "the best person for the job" is that Ava DuVernay ISN'T the best person for the job. In fact, every single time we had an article about a woman being considered for directing Captain Marvel or Wonder Woman, we got the exact same comments about how that particular woman simply couldn't be the "best person for the job". It's a trend and a knee-jerk reaction that people ALWAYS say whenever a woman or a minority is tabbed to direct a movie featuring a woman or a minority. So hence why my original comment was legitimate.

And if you were confused about why I mentioned that thing about my "neighbor", then you should've just said so from the beginning, and I could've elaborated. That comment of mine had to do with SkyNet basically saying that people like me want DuVernay to direct this movie simply because she happens to be black. That's it. He said that we, and I quote, "are the ones saying people deserve things based solely on what color their skin is and not the work or talent they have". And that's simply not true. So to prove my point, I mentioned that he's acting like people are saying that: "Hey, I happen to have a black neighbor who has no talent and no experience in the film industry...maybe she/he should direct this movie about a black man!" and that's obviously not the case. Literally nobody is saying that, and that's the point. I was simply exaggerating in order to make my point, because he was doing the same. Even by your own definition, that's not a strawman.

So if nobody is going around and saying that ANY black person should get this job, it leads us to the fundamental reason why we're disagreeing here - I (and many other critics and fans) believe that DuVernay is 100% capable and talented enough to direct Black Panther, based on her past experience. You and SkyNet clearly disagree, and that's fine. But when SkyNet crossed the line and tried to make it seem like her movie was destroyed by critics and hated by fans and that DuVernay herself is some kind of racist (which you yourself have said elsewhere in this thread too), then that is what I take issue with. Because that's 100% false, and isn't backed up by ANYTHING.

But hey, clearly we're not going to convince each other of anything here, so maybe we should just end this. I hope I've been able to clarify my comments for you to understand, even if you don't agree.
12:17AM on 05/14/2015
Honestly SB... you have your opinion.. it is what it is... my opinion has nothing to do with Race.. it has to do with a filmmaker who made a shitty movie and is now being saught after to direct a movie i dont want to see tucked up. Spare me your righteous whatever the fuck you said I had!

Ava Duvsomething aucks as a filmmaker... is a racist as a human being... but i can get past racist filmmakers, Spike Lee is the biggest racist of them all, but you tell me HE is directing a Marvel flick, i am
Honestly SB... you have your opinion.. it is what it is... my opinion has nothing to do with Race.. it has to do with a filmmaker who made a shitty movie and is now being saught after to direct a movie i dont want to see tucked up. Spare me your righteous whatever the fuck you said I had!

Ava Duvsomething aucks as a filmmaker... is a racist as a human being... but i can get past racist filmmakers, Spike Lee is the biggest racist of them all, but you tell me HE is directing a Marvel flick, i am there opening night!
2:08AM on 05/14/2015
SkyNet, you don't seem to know the meaning of a "strawman", you don't even know what "self-righteous, faux outrage" is...are you sure you're old enough to be commenting about ridiculously complicated matters that have to do with race and race relations and how those sensitive topics pertain to the medium of film? I'm not trying to be insulting - it's just that if you're really young and have no actual real-world experience with this kind of thing, it REALLY explains your ignorance with this
SkyNet, you don't seem to know the meaning of a "strawman", you don't even know what "self-righteous, faux outrage" is...are you sure you're old enough to be commenting about ridiculously complicated matters that have to do with race and race relations and how those sensitive topics pertain to the medium of film? I'm not trying to be insulting - it's just that if you're really young and have no actual real-world experience with this kind of thing, it REALLY explains your ignorance with this entire subject.

Had I known this bit of info earlier, I probably wouldn't even have had engaged with you in discussion in the first place. You don't deserve to be berated my internet strangers for something that you don't know about to begin with. I'd argue that you shouldn't have stuck your foot into this conversation in the first place, but it is what it is at this point. But still, this certainly explains a lot.
+4
1:08PM on 05/13/2015
Well they are gonna be fucked trying to get a director for Howard The Duck
Well they are gonna be fucked trying to get a director for Howard The Duck
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1:25PM on 05/13/2015
Ha!
Ha!
1:55PM on 05/13/2015
You know, if they do make another Howard the Duck movie, i think i would want Ben Stiller directing it.

You know, if they do make another Howard the Duck movie, i think i would want Ben Stiller directing it.

8:47PM on 05/13/2015
hahaha! good one! and that, by the way, is not a fake laugh.
hahaha! good one! and that, by the way, is not a fake laugh.
11:09PM on 05/13/2015
He's a much better director than he is an actor. Zoolander and Tropic Thunder were both great and the kind of R-rated, dont-give-a-shit style comedy that Howard the Duck could use.
He's a much better director than he is an actor. Zoolander and Tropic Thunder were both great and the kind of R-rated, dont-give-a-shit style comedy that Howard the Duck could use.
11:17PM on 05/13/2015
I was laughing at the idea of finding a duck director. Ben Stiller? He bores me as an actor but you're probably right about him being an ok director.
I was laughing at the idea of finding a duck director. Ben Stiller? He bores me as an actor but you're probably right about him being an ok director.
12:57PM on 05/13/2015
I trust Feige. He wants the Marvel movies to flow together cohesively so, fine, have her do both movies. The director of Yes Man is doing Ant Man and it looks like it is turning out fine (although the original Wright storyboards probably helped).
I trust Feige. He wants the Marvel movies to flow together cohesively so, fine, have her do both movies. The director of Yes Man is doing Ant Man and it looks like it is turning out fine (although the original Wright storyboards probably helped).
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-2
12:38PM on 05/13/2015

So the woman who admitted....

....that she misrepresented LBJ's impact on the Civil Rights movement because she didn't want to give credit to a white guy is going to direct a superhero movie?

That's okay. I'm perfectly fine with not spending $10 that weekend.
....that she misrepresented LBJ's impact on the Civil Rights movement because she didn't want to give credit to a white guy is going to direct a superhero movie?

That's okay. I'm perfectly fine with not spending $10 that weekend.
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1:29PM on 05/13/2015
I'm in the same boat as you. Racism goes both ways. Apparently it is racist to not like that MLK movie now too. To not nominate it was the best decision the academy made in a long time.

I'm in the same boat as you. Racism goes both ways. Apparently it is racist to not like that MLK movie now too. To not nominate it was the best decision the academy made in a long time.

1:56PM on 05/13/2015
oh my god someone took creative licence when doing a historical film, i will not stand for this. She automatically is disbarred from doing any more movies in my book. If you are gonna do a historical movie, you have to be 100% accurate.
oh my god someone took creative licence when doing a historical film, i will not stand for this. She automatically is disbarred from doing any more movies in my book. If you are gonna do a historical movie, you have to be 100% accurate.
3:14PM on 05/13/2015
No idiot, someone took creative license SPECIFICALLY because they wanted to promote an ideological agenda based ONLY on race.

As I said, Marvel can do whatever they like. I'm going to do the same with my money.

By the way, I hope you one day learn to speak in complete sentences. I know it's tough, but I'm pulling for you.
No idiot, someone took creative license SPECIFICALLY because they wanted to promote an ideological agenda based ONLY on race.

As I said, Marvel can do whatever they like. I'm going to do the same with my money.

By the way, I hope you one day learn to speak in complete sentences. I know it's tough, but I'm pulling for you.
5:52PM on 05/13/2015
I think she made a movie about the facts she had. But I'm not going to pretend I know much about this situation you speak of. So can you point me in the direction where she said she didnt want to give credit to a white guy.
I think she made a movie about the facts she had. But I'm not going to pretend I know much about this situation you speak of. So can you point me in the direction where she said she didnt want to give credit to a white guy.
8:44PM on 05/13/2015
Ken; the source would probably be fox "news"
Ken; the source would probably be fox "news"
12:15PM on 05/13/2015

Wow, this is bad.

Did they not see the flak DC is getting for forcing a female director to direct Wonder Woman?

Hiring someone just because they fit the specific gender or racial profile of the projects cast/focus just seems more discriminating than anything.

Just hire people who are talented and are capable of bringing us movies on par with what we have come to love with the Marvel Universe. Don't point out that the black one directs black movies and the girl directs the girl movie.

Did they not see the flak DC is getting for forcing a female director to direct Wonder Woman?

Hiring someone just because they fit the specific gender or racial profile of the projects cast/focus just seems more discriminating than anything.

Just hire people who are talented and are capable of bringing us movies on par with what we have come to love with the Marvel Universe. Don't point out that the black one directs black movies and the girl directs the girl movie.

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11:46AM on 05/13/2015
Hire someone because they are a woman and hire someone because they are black...Whatever happened to its because they are talented?
Hire someone because they are a woman and hire someone because they are black...Whatever happened to its because they are talented?
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+0
11:08AM on 05/13/2015
Selma was ine of the most boring pieces of shit i have tried to sit through in a while. .. it was so bad, i shut it off. MLK deserved a movie that was paced better. Just shows that the whole oscar push had nothing to do with quality but was solely based on race.

I really hope she doesnt direct a marvel movie... cuz if she does it will be the most boring marvel flick to date... and if it ends up being the worst reviewed movie from marvel or the marvel flick that makes the least amount of
Selma was ine of the most boring pieces of shit i have tried to sit through in a while. .. it was so bad, i shut it off. MLK deserved a movie that was paced better. Just shows that the whole oscar push had nothing to do with quality but was solely based on race.

I really hope she doesnt direct a marvel movie... cuz if she does it will be the most boring marvel flick to date... and if it ends up being the worst reviewed movie from marvel or the marvel flick that makes the least amount of money, id bet a mollion dollars this woman would blame it on her race and call everyone racists, the way she did when she didnt get nominated for Selma, even though she made a shit movie.
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12:17PM on 05/13/2015
Agreed. I sat through it and it was just bad. The acting was forced, the script was boring and it just never became great.
Agreed. I sat through it and it was just bad. The acting was forced, the script was boring and it just never became great.
11:06AM on 05/13/2015
Hey Marvel,

How about you just get someone who's right for the job instead of using women and African Americans as PR stunts.
Hey Marvel,

How about you just get someone who's right for the job instead of using women and African Americans as PR stunts.
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+2
11:06AM on 05/13/2015
Definitely going to be seen as stunt hiring, whether or not it actually is.
Definitely going to be seen as stunt hiring, whether or not it actually is.
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10:37AM on 05/13/2015

Haven't seen Selma

But Marvel's intentions of casting a black director to direct a black superhero movie seems so forced. It should be based on the merits of the director's talent, not their race or gender. That being said, I would love to see Antoine Fuqua direct Black Panther--especially with how he handled "Tears of the Sun".
But Marvel's intentions of casting a black director to direct a black superhero movie seems so forced. It should be based on the merits of the director's talent, not their race or gender. That being said, I would love to see Antoine Fuqua direct Black Panther--especially with how he handled "Tears of the Sun".
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10:33AM on 05/13/2015
It's not a question if she can do a good job. What matters if she can work under Marvel without any creative differences (like Wright, and the original director they had for Thor: The Dark World).

But I wouldn't mind her directing Black Panther. I just hope she would have experience with directing this type of scope alonr with directing some good action scenes.
It's not a question if she can do a good job. What matters if she can work under Marvel without any creative differences (like Wright, and the original director they had for Thor: The Dark World).

But I wouldn't mind her directing Black Panther. I just hope she would have experience with directing this type of scope alonr with directing some good action scenes.
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12:41PM on 05/13/2015
The answers to your hope would be, "No" and "No."

And sorry to disagree, but it's ALL about if she can do a good job. Up to now in her career, the jury is out.
The answers to your hope would be, "No" and "No."

And sorry to disagree, but it's ALL about if she can do a good job. Up to now in her career, the jury is out.
10:14AM on 05/13/2015

Selma was sooooo

... such a great man deserved a greater movie !
If a " black movie " had not won last year (12 years a slave), Selma would have probably won more Oscars...
C'mon Marvel, can't you take more risks and bet on more provocating directors ?????
... such a great man deserved a greater movie !
If a " black movie " had not won last year (12 years a slave), Selma would have probably won more Oscars...
C'mon Marvel, can't you take more risks and bet on more provocating directors ?????
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9:32AM on 05/13/2015

Not surprising

Marvel's saying, "Look at us! We're progressive! We're diverse!" by having a black woman either directing BLACK PANTHER or CAPTAIN MARVEL. That said, SELMA was a great movie and I look forward to seeing what Ava Duvernay can do with a Marvel property.
Marvel's saying, "Look at us! We're progressive! We're diverse!" by having a black woman either directing BLACK PANTHER or CAPTAIN MARVEL. That said, SELMA was a great movie and I look forward to seeing what Ava Duvernay can do with a Marvel property.
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