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J.J. Abrams says Star Trek Into Darkness had too many Wrath of Khan nods

11.24.2015

Star Trek Into Darkness J.J Abrams Chris Pine Banner

STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS may have received mostly high marks from critics and earned over $460 million worldwide, but many fans of the sci-fi franchise weren't too pleased with the sequel to the 2009 reboot. Director J.J. Abrams has already admitted that they should have been upfront about the real identity of Benedict Cumberbatch's character, and during a "celebrity nerd-off" with Stephen Colbert at the Montclair Film Festival, Abrams said he knows he kind of overdid it with the STAR TREK II: THE WRATH OF KHAN nods.

We got in trouble on the second Star Trek film with some of the fans. There were too many nods to The Wrath of Khan. I'll cop to that.

Even with its flaws, constant lens flares and THE WRATH OF KHAN nods, I still really enjoyed STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS, and it definitely wasn't as bad as STAR TREK V: THE FINAL FRONTIER or STAR TREK: INSURRECTION. But hopefully Abrams has learned from his mistakes, and STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS won't have too many nods to the original trilogy.

STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS is out on December 18th, while STAR TREK BEYOND has been set to open on July 22, 2016.

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8:43AM on 11/25/2015
Supposedly 'fanboy pleasing' nods to previous movies just suck the integrity out of a film, because instead of being invested in the story you're thinking "hey, they're doing that thing from the other film". It's like using the Wilhelm Scream - it's a nod to another thing that's not part of the story you're telling and it ruins the immersion. It's all a side-effect of postmodern awareness, but it makes for shitty storytelling.
Personally STID only had one such moment that really jarred with
Supposedly 'fanboy pleasing' nods to previous movies just suck the integrity out of a film, because instead of being invested in the story you're thinking "hey, they're doing that thing from the other film". It's like using the Wilhelm Scream - it's a nod to another thing that's not part of the story you're telling and it ruins the immersion. It's all a side-effect of postmodern awareness, but it makes for shitty storytelling.
Personally STID only had one such moment that really jarred with me, and that was the role reversal scene where Spock shouts "Khan!!" - there's a degree to which such things make reference to the fact that we're in an alternate timeline, but that was the bit for me that just seemed like an attempt at pandering to the audience rather than actually being something Spock might have done in that situation.
As for The Force Awakens - well I guess we'll see.
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3:54AM on 11/25/2015

JJ is repeating the same mistakes

Glad Abrams admits the mistakes of STID but he's repeating the the same mistakes. Not only was Into Darkness too heavy on nods to WOK but his first ST was basically all nods to A New Hope. And korollocke and JackNapier are right, now he has basically made a remake of new hope with TFA: desert planet with a nobody future hero, good guys having a base in a forest planet, bad guy in a black mask and a freaking third death star in series complete with a trench! But it's so easy to get hyped for
Glad Abrams admits the mistakes of STID but he's repeating the the same mistakes. Not only was Into Darkness too heavy on nods to WOK but his first ST was basically all nods to A New Hope. And korollocke and JackNapier are right, now he has basically made a remake of new hope with TFA: desert planet with a nobody future hero, good guys having a base in a forest planet, bad guy in a black mask and a freaking third death star in series complete with a trench! But it's so easy to get hyped for star wars that people don't seem to care. Personally I'm more interested about Rogue one and later Ep. 8 for some original content!
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1:48PM on 11/24/2015

I can handle the nods, I can handle the lens flare.

Trans warp beaming. Fuck off!
What is the point of a 5 year mission or Starships if you can beam from Earth to the Klingon home world. Just lazy writing IMO.
Trans warp beaming. Fuck off!
What is the point of a 5 year mission or Starships if you can beam from Earth to the Klingon home world. Just lazy writing IMO.
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12:40PM on 11/24/2015
'STID''s main fault is that it had too many talentless shitheads making supposedly creative decisions.
'STID''s main fault is that it had too many talentless shitheads making supposedly creative decisions.
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12:18PM on 11/24/2015
They should have skipped the nods, but kept the super human angle. They could have easily explained it as they revived a different one of them. They could have said Benedict was Joaquin, from TOS Space Seed. Saves Khan for a later day. I guess we know now why they were first talking to Benicio del Toro.
They should have skipped the nods, but kept the super human angle. They could have easily explained it as they revived a different one of them. They could have said Benedict was Joaquin, from TOS Space Seed. Saves Khan for a later day. I guess we know now why they were first talking to Benicio del Toro.
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5:12PM on 11/24/2015
Joaquin would've been much younger, almost a young teen if not a child. Considering he was marooned on Ceti Alpha for almost 20 years and in Wrath of Khan he was id say, 29-30 so that doesnt work.
Joaquin would've been much younger, almost a young teen if not a child. Considering he was marooned on Ceti Alpha for almost 20 years and in Wrath of Khan he was id say, 29-30 so that doesnt work.
5:39PM on 11/25/2015
You're thinking of Joachim from TWOK. I'm talking about Khan's right hand man in TOS episode Space Seed. That character was the father of the blonde haired character we saw as Joachim in TWOK.
You're thinking of Joachim from TWOK. I'm talking about Khan's right hand man in TOS episode Space Seed. That character was the father of the blonde haired character we saw as Joachim in TWOK.
11:15PM on 11/30/2015
ah yes, my mistake.
ah yes, my mistake.
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12:06PM on 11/24/2015

A few problems with Into Darkness

I enjoyed Into Darkness, but there are a few issues with the movie that could have been eliminated to make it better.

1. Kirk's death scene: Call it nod if you like, but it was nothing more than a cheap attempt to connect this film to the WOK. When I say cheap I mean it took one of the most iconic moments in the entire Star Trek universe...Spock's death, the end of a relationship between two of the most beloved characters of all times and the fracturing a triad (Spock, Kirk and McCoy) that
I enjoyed Into Darkness, but there are a few issues with the movie that could have been eliminated to make it better.

1. Kirk's death scene: Call it nod if you like, but it was nothing more than a cheap attempt to connect this film to the WOK. When I say cheap I mean it took one of the most iconic moments in the entire Star Trek universe...Spock's death, the end of a relationship between two of the most beloved characters of all times and the fracturing a triad (Spock, Kirk and McCoy) that was the very foundation of the entire series, not to mention the ultimate expression of a philosophy that could change the course of our own history (The needs of the many out way the need of the few... or the one) and turned it into a catalyst for revenge. CHEAP!!!!!

2. McCoy testing Khan's blood on a dead trible then saving Kirk with it was absolutely ridiculous. The scene where Kirk asks McCoy what he's doing with that trible was so obviously contrived it makes me cringe every time I see it.

SOLUTIONS: Kirk doesn't die, Spock doesn't go on an emotional rampage for revenge, and change Khan's name to anything else. That would have made a much better movie.
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2:53PM on 11/24/2015
Well said sir!
Well said sir!
10:20PM on 11/24/2015
So true...
Beside, they never said ONLY Khan's blood was 'a Lazarus Pitt'... So, logically, any of the other 72 members of the Botany Bay could have saved Kirk !
So true...
Beside, they never said ONLY Khan's blood was 'a Lazarus Pitt'... So, logically, any of the other 72 members of the Botany Bay could have saved Kirk !
11:52AM on 11/24/2015

After watching the new Star Wars trailers, my fear is he's making same mistake

I really feel like all the new Star Wars material suggests he's rehashing just about every plot point from a new hope. I just dont want this to be the Home Alone 2 of the Star Wars universe. Im not going to bother explaining that.
I really feel like all the new Star Wars material suggests he's rehashing just about every plot point from a new hope. I just dont want this to be the Home Alone 2 of the Star Wars universe. Im not going to bother explaining that.
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2:54PM on 11/24/2015
The whole new 'death star' thing REALLY grates on me. Plus another trench run, etc. I'm cautiously optimistic but I have concerns as well.
The whole new 'death star' thing REALLY grates on me. Plus another trench run, etc. I'm cautiously optimistic but I have concerns as well.
11:44AM on 11/24/2015
There were so many nods it was more of a partial remake than anything. I really liked the original parts of Into Darkness, but definitely am with everyone else who didn't care for the references.
There were so many nods it was more of a partial remake than anything. I really liked the original parts of Into Darkness, but definitely am with everyone else who didn't care for the references.
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10:51AM on 11/24/2015
He is 100 percent correct and I'm a die-hard fan of WOK. Too much fan service.
He is 100 percent correct and I'm a die-hard fan of WOK. Too much fan service.
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10:10AM on 11/24/2015
The new starwars is a total nod fest has more nods than a bobblehead! Look at the trailers for proof! I mean common a black colored x-wing and tiefighter, my how bold and original, a new deathstar called star killer base, a new fat alien with a new female in the slave outfit, ect....I half expect will smiths just bob your head to be in the sound track.
The new starwars is a total nod fest has more nods than a bobblehead! Look at the trailers for proof! I mean common a black colored x-wing and tiefighter, my how bold and original, a new deathstar called star killer base, a new fat alien with a new female in the slave outfit, ect....I half expect will smiths just bob your head to be in the sound track.
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