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Joss Whedon bashes Jurassic World clip for being sexist

04.10.2015

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Yesterday saw the release of the first clip from Colin Treverrow's JURASSIC WORLD, showcasing Bryce Dallas Howard's Claire and Chris Pratt's Owen talking shop and a little bit of history including the one date they've been on. It was definitely some more lighthearted fare, given where the flick is inevitably headed. Not everyone was a fan, however, as AVENGERS: AGE OF ULTRON writer/director Joss Whedon took to Twitter to give his thoughts about the scene.

When I first started watching the clip, I felt Bryce's character was a little stilted. When the mention of a date came up, it made more sense. It's hard to see the bigger picture from just one clip, but I get the sense that she's putting up a bit of a front given her position and her relationship with Pratt's character, and that she's much less of a stiff than she's making herself out to be. Now, talking sexism in cinema is opening a huge can of worms, so I'm not going to go there, but I will say that we should probably see how the movie plays out and judge the characters accordingly. Besides, there are plenty of other movies where the man plays the stiff and the woman the "life-force." Just sayin'.

JURASSIC WORLD hits cinemas on June 12, 2015.

Do you agree with Joss Whedon's sentiment over the clip?

CLICK IMAGE TO OPEN GALLERY & SEE MORE PICS...

Source: Twitter

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7:19PM on 04/17/2015

Um.

Funny how this is coming from the one fella who's movie will be direct competition this summer at the multiplex.
Funny how this is coming from the one fella who's movie will be direct competition this summer at the multiplex.
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4:51AM on 04/12/2015

It's really not that different..

.. from the Reynolds / Inara stuff he wrote for Firefly.
.. from the Reynolds / Inara stuff he wrote for Firefly.
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12:29PM on 04/13/2015
That's what I thought too.
That's what I thought too.
+1
12:47AM on 04/12/2015

Whedon is a moron

He is really a bad writer/director. Most of his work sucks, some is watchable. Avengers was a bad script made workable by a great cast.
He is really a bad writer/director. Most of his work sucks, some is watchable. Avengers was a bad script made workable by a great cast.
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1:24AM on 04/12/2015
Yeah a great cast directed by a great director. Youre the moron if you give him zero credit for avengers. Also Im not a fan of Firefly but a lot are and Buffy was one of the best genre tv series ever. Soooo yeah why am I wasting my time on a troll like you.
Yeah a great cast directed by a great director. Youre the moron if you give him zero credit for avengers. Also Im not a fan of Firefly but a lot are and Buffy was one of the best genre tv series ever. Soooo yeah why am I wasting my time on a troll like you.
1:37AM on 04/12/2015
The Avengers is an over-rated bore... like Whedon himself.
The Avengers is an over-rated bore... like Whedon himself.
11:13PM on 04/12/2015
I concur with H-Man
I concur with H-Man
+1
6:02PM on 04/11/2015
The scene was terrible anyways. Horrible dialog, bad acting, and Whedon is right about this old cliche banter of a cold woman learning how to be a person from the down to earth guy who has all the answers.
The scene was terrible anyways. Horrible dialog, bad acting, and Whedon is right about this old cliche banter of a cold woman learning how to be a person from the down to earth guy who has all the answers.
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1:27AM on 04/12/2015
He's too progressive and intelligent for certain bitch titty Brody mallrats wannabes.
He's too progressive and intelligent for certain bitch titty Brody mallrats wannabes.
2:00PM on 04/13/2015
Yes, UrbanLenny!
Yes, UrbanLenny!
+0
2:08PM on 04/11/2015
Whedon is an overrated assclown . He's the same guy who said that 'Empire Strikes Back' was a bad movie that he could have made better had he directed it.
Whedon is an overrated assclown . He's the same guy who said that 'Empire Strikes Back' was a bad movie that he could have made better had he directed it.
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2:59PM on 04/11/2015
Actually he said "it had no ending an that frustrated me" and "I like movies that offer the full experience." He never said the whole movie was bad, nor did he mention directing it. People who talk out of their asses have no room to call others assclowns.
Actually he said "it had no ending an that frustrated me" and "I like movies that offer the full experience." He never said the whole movie was bad, nor did he mention directing it. People who talk out of their asses have no room to call others assclowns.
3:22PM on 04/11/2015
Even if that were the case, he's also entitled to not like Empire. I don't care for how it ends either. If you want to hate Wedon, by all means do so, just don't put quotes that don't exist in your rants.
Even if that were the case, he's also entitled to not like Empire. I don't care for how it ends either. If you want to hate Wedon, by all means do so, just don't put quotes that don't exist in your rants.
1:25AM on 04/12/2015
It would have been better if he did though.
It would have been better if he did though.
1:39AM on 04/12/2015
The Empire Strikes Back is far better than any movie Joss Whedon has ever made.
The Empire Strikes Back is far better than any movie Joss Whedon has ever made.
2:02PM on 04/13/2015
Aw, and after I just agreed with UrbanLenny a couple comments up, I have to disagree. Whedon can have his opinion on ESB, but I for one don't think he would have made it a better movie. I think it's great. I just also hate when people like the OP spout off bullshit as if it's fact.
Aw, and after I just agreed with UrbanLenny a couple comments up, I have to disagree. Whedon can have his opinion on ESB, but I for one don't think he would have made it a better movie. I think it's great. I just also hate when people like the OP spout off bullshit as if it's fact.
1:13PM on 04/11/2015
If you try hard enough to find something you will find it eventually, whether it's really there or not. Although I believe Joss is on the right side of the sexism debate, I think he stretched his interpretation of this clip a bit.
If you try hard enough to find something you will find it eventually, whether it's really there or not. Although I believe Joss is on the right side of the sexism debate, I think he stretched his interpretation of this clip a bit.
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3:27PM on 04/11/2015
He's a writer/director. It would make sense that he'd analyze the clip. I don't write or direct so I watched the clip and thought it was underwhelming. People also see things differently so you and I and Wedon will pick up cues differently. It doesn't mean he's wrong either, but it's also Twitter so you don't have enough text space to explain it further. It's just a Tweet. That's it. He doesn't hate the movie, he isn't saying "don't go see it", he's just unhappy with the clip provided and feels
He's a writer/director. It would make sense that he'd analyze the clip. I don't write or direct so I watched the clip and thought it was underwhelming. People also see things differently so you and I and Wedon will pick up cues differently. It doesn't mean he's wrong either, but it's also Twitter so you don't have enough text space to explain it further. It's just a Tweet. That's it. He doesn't hate the movie, he isn't saying "don't go see it", he's just unhappy with the clip provided and feels it may be 70's era sexist. It's not even news worthy.
If you're bashing him here, you just hate him in general, which is your choice.
11:51AM on 04/12/2015
So for example, the responder to my comment has accused me of bashing Joss and hating him with really no reason other than the fact that I said he stretched his interpretation of this clip. I for one love Joss and do not hate him and I even made mention of him being on the right side of the sexism debate. This responder however needed me to be someone that was bashing Joss and someone that hates him to make his point so that's what he saw.
So for example, the responder to my comment has accused me of bashing Joss and hating him with really no reason other than the fact that I said he stretched his interpretation of this clip. I for one love Joss and do not hate him and I even made mention of him being on the right side of the sexism debate. This responder however needed me to be someone that was bashing Joss and someone that hates him to make his point so that's what he saw.
1:09PM on 04/11/2015
Oh please, this is probably indirect marketing to get people talking. As already pointed out this is nothing new BUT since this Joss Wheddon i guess it makes it "special".
Oh please, this is probably indirect marketing to get people talking. As already pointed out this is nothing new BUT since this Joss Wheddon i guess it makes it "special".
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12:52PM on 04/11/2015

For everyone saying this is an overused trope...

When was the last time this trope was used in a big budget feature?
When was the last time this trope was used in a big budget feature?
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3:08PM on 04/11/2015
How to Train Your Dragon, Wreck it Ralph, Casino Royale and in a sort of gender flipped way 50 Shades of Grey.
How to Train Your Dragon, Wreck it Ralph, Casino Royale and in a sort of gender flipped way 50 Shades of Grey.
7:49PM on 04/11/2015
Casino Royale? The one where 007 gets his balls smashed as per every feminist's fantasy?
Casino Royale? The one where 007 gets his balls smashed as per every feminist's fantasy?
2:03PM on 04/13/2015
Vesper totally fits the trope, so yes.
Vesper totally fits the trope, so yes.
11:35AM on 04/11/2015
Why are we so sensitive? There is no freedom in constantly worrying about all the different points of view that could be offended on any given situation or decision. Maybe it is because we are such a bubble wrapped society. Most of us are an ocean away from real danger. We are Matt Damon in Good Will Hunting sitting on a safe bench in a safe park, wishing we had the battle scars of the generations before us, so we could validate our book knowledge of world problems.
Why are we so sensitive? There is no freedom in constantly worrying about all the different points of view that could be offended on any given situation or decision. Maybe it is because we are such a bubble wrapped society. Most of us are an ocean away from real danger. We are Matt Damon in Good Will Hunting sitting on a safe bench in a safe park, wishing we had the battle scars of the generations before us, so we could validate our book knowledge of world problems.
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11:28AM on 04/11/2015
There are levels to sexism, and Dallas Howard is neither playing predominantly a mother, a prostitute or someone whose only function is to be beholden to a male character (though having only seen a short clip, who can say what aspects of those sexist tropes her character might actually encompass, but initially she seems to have avoided those) that's at least the main elements of normal cinematic sexism dodged, allowing those who wish to view other issues. Is it sexist to have a business
There are levels to sexism, and Dallas Howard is neither playing predominantly a mother, a prostitute or someone whose only function is to be beholden to a male character (though having only seen a short clip, who can say what aspects of those sexist tropes her character might actually encompass, but initially she seems to have avoided those) that's at least the main elements of normal cinematic sexism dodged, allowing those who wish to view other issues. Is it sexist to have a business oriented female character be emotionally cold, humourless and losing sight of what matters in comparison to her laid back male counterpart? Perhaps, but if you reverse those roles you end up with Dharma and Greg and nobody wants that. Honestly this clip didn't seem that bad to the extent that Whedon needed to speak out on it.
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11:20AM on 04/11/2015
Everyone is so daggum sensitive these days. Shut it Whedon!
Everyone is so daggum sensitive these days. Shut it Whedon!
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+1
11:19AM on 04/11/2015
It's an overused trope for sure, but sexist? I don't think so. There are plenty of examples of this same concept being used with the male as the uptight one and the female as the free spirit. Off the top of my head, the TV show Dharma and Greg is a famous example.

I really don't like this concept that a female character's character traits becomes "sexist." You start to get into the territory where you can't portray women in a certain way. So what, we can't portray women as uptight? We
It's an overused trope for sure, but sexist? I don't think so. There are plenty of examples of this same concept being used with the male as the uptight one and the female as the free spirit. Off the top of my head, the TV show Dharma and Greg is a famous example.

I really don't like this concept that a female character's character traits becomes "sexist." You start to get into the territory where you can't portray women in a certain way. So what, we can't portray women as uptight? We can't portray women as being a bitch? We can't portray women as having character flaws? But there are women like this in real life. If you can't show women in certain lights, that does a bigger disservice to women than anything else, because the implication is that they can't be used in the same variety of roles as men can.

Sorry Joss, love ya, but this is stupid.
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9:52AM on 04/11/2015

Another day another fake internet outrage

This internet outrage over everything big and small is getting real old real quick. I'm watching this clip thinking what'd the big deal. There is none. Just more outrage over nothing.
This internet outrage over everything big and small is getting real old real quick. I'm watching this clip thinking what'd the big deal. There is none. Just more outrage over nothing.
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11:25AM on 04/11/2015
100% agree!
100% agree!
12:51PM on 04/11/2015
Apparently people feel important when they feign offense at something.
Apparently people feel important when they feign offense at something.
7:16AM on 04/11/2015
Wow, people are touchy on this. I read this yesterday and didn't think much of it. Now it's everywhere! I guess I am confused why everyone is taking one man's thoughts on a single clip to heart so strongly. It's just that, one man's opinion. Whether he's right, wrong, hypocritical, or what have you - it's pretty easy to get over and move on. It's not like the man is running an anti Jurassic World campaign.
Wow, people are touchy on this. I read this yesterday and didn't think much of it. Now it's everywhere! I guess I am confused why everyone is taking one man's thoughts on a single clip to heart so strongly. It's just that, one man's opinion. Whether he's right, wrong, hypocritical, or what have you - it's pretty easy to get over and move on. It's not like the man is running an anti Jurassic World campaign.
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11:55PM on 04/11/2015
Sorry bud, but you don't get to post a five line paragraph like this and then claim you don't care, like you're so above it all... please.
Sorry bud, but you don't get to post a five line paragraph like this and then claim you don't care, like you're so above it all... please.
6:09AM on 04/11/2015
He's just pointing out the use of an outdated character trope in a modern movie. That's all. But because he used the word sexist he gets flamed. If he would've deconstructed the ice queen characterization as antiquated as the hooker-with-the-heart of gold or any of the other lazy ways writers tend to portray women without using the "S" word I'm sure it wouldn't be as big of a deal and people here wouldn't be getting their grundles in a knot.

There are a hand full of roles types women are
He's just pointing out the use of an outdated character trope in a modern movie. That's all. But because he used the word sexist he gets flamed. If he would've deconstructed the ice queen characterization as antiquated as the hooker-with-the-heart of gold or any of the other lazy ways writers tend to portray women without using the "S" word I'm sure it wouldn't be as big of a deal and people here wouldn't be getting their grundles in a knot.

There are a hand full of roles types women are cornered into playing: The ice queen, the manic pixie dream girl, the Mary Sue, the matron, the whore, etc.. None of which give the character their own agency, OR pass the bechdel test, and that is what is sexist.
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12:49PM on 04/11/2015
Everything old is new again. That's the thing, the "outdated character trope" you're referring to hasn't been used in so long that it's now new again.

What has become truly stale and outdated in the modern era, is the petite female character who can do it all, act like Han Solo, and fight in hand to hand combat on even ground with assailants outweighing them by 300 pounds. This trope has not only become stale and overused, but highly comical as well.

The Bechdel Test is pure nonsense,
Everything old is new again. That's the thing, the "outdated character trope" you're referring to hasn't been used in so long that it's now new again.

What has become truly stale and outdated in the modern era, is the petite female character who can do it all, act like Han Solo, and fight in hand to hand combat on even ground with assailants outweighing them by 300 pounds. This trope has not only become stale and overused, but highly comical as well.

The Bechdel Test is pure nonsense, and only promotes hypocrisy and double standard.

By her measure, the Magnificent Seven is sexist. John Carpenter's The Thing is sexist. But would the opposite be true? Would films with no men such as Steel Magnolias or Fried Green Tomatoes be sexist?

There are movies where male characters don't talk to each other either. This is a purely imaginary issue concocted by a hand wringer with entirely too much time on her hands.

If the movie is about Captain America, what exactly is the female character supposed to be talking about? Apparently female characters are also prohibited from talking about men in order to pass this test. Dumb.

But then for feminazis like Alison Bechdel, anything that doesn't focus exclusively on women's gripes is sexist.

3:50PM on 04/11/2015
Moat Man, that trope is used in television and movies every year. I normally don't say this to people, because generally it's not this black and white, but you are just flat out wrong.
Moat Man, that trope is used in television and movies every year. I normally don't say this to people, because generally it's not this black and white, but you are just flat out wrong.
7:52PM on 04/11/2015
Except that I'm not. You sir, are the one that is dead wrong.

And the very next Scarlett Johansson movie will likely prove that. Again.
Except that I'm not. You sir, are the one that is dead wrong.

And the very next Scarlett Johansson movie will likely prove that. Again.
9:10AM on 04/12/2015
Moat Man - Lets get rid of the sexist talk for a minute and just focus on the use of these characterizations as writing devices. Can we at least agree that using a paint-by-numbers approach to character interactions and intentions is lazy? Isn't that the reason most hardcore movie fans scoff at rom-coms? Isn't that why sports underdog movies are so predictable? Isn't this why we universally pan movies of any genre where the protagonist's whole arc is telegraphed in the first act, or worse, the
Moat Man - Lets get rid of the sexist talk for a minute and just focus on the use of these characterizations as writing devices. Can we at least agree that using a paint-by-numbers approach to character interactions and intentions is lazy? Isn't that the reason most hardcore movie fans scoff at rom-coms? Isn't that why sports underdog movies are so predictable? Isn't this why we universally pan movies of any genre where the protagonist's whole arc is telegraphed in the first act, or worse, the trailer.

If we can agree on that, at least we have some solid footing on common ground.

Now back to the debate at hand.

What I should have said was if the character has agency AND/or passes the bechdel test. Agency, if you don't know, is the characters ability to make decisions that affect the story, and not just let the plot affect them. The plot, or sub plot, should be in response to the characters choices. It's the clear definition of character driven story vs. plot driven.

Now, if Howard's character is painted as truly 2 dimensional ice queen type, that NEEDS Pratt's relaxed cool dude character to allow herself to develop, that is sexist because she is not in control of herself, or her actions. IF her defining 3rd act moment is a result of her being thematically forced to change by Pratt's character and not of her own volition, it's sexist. Lets not conflate influence and lack of agency either. She can take what she has learned from any number of character and decide for herself without being forced by plot necessities.

See why people take the easy way out when writing this stuff? It all hangs on a razors edge.


The bechdel test is the ground work from where other critical thinking can spring. Obviously I'm a feminist. Obviously not all movies I love pass this test. But where they may fail in the bechdel criteria they usually pass in agency. If they fail at both, well, I certainly can't claim to be perfect. But to claim that male characters are treated just as unfairly in movies is asinine.

Sure there are movies that men don't talk to each other, but you're (intentionally?) forgetting the other half of the test to prove your argument. They need to primarily talk about something other than how much they need a man. In the movies where a totally or predominately male cast does speak to each other, how often is it about women? And not in the macho "gonna get laid tonight" kind of way, but in the "if only I had a woman in my life then I would be whole as a person" kind of way that women are reduced to time and time again. Not often. Men have manly shit to do and talk about like winning wars or shooting aliens or riding horses. If almost all movies released had all the male characters hemming and hawing as the primary form of dialogue throughout, most guys wouldn't want to see them. Why? Because it doesn't portray them in a fully rounded way that they could identify with. And that would be sexist.

So, whether we agree on gender politics is moot, but at the very least we hopefully can agree that relying on "outdated character trope[s]" is indeed lazy.
12:52PM on 04/12/2015
First off, let’s not get rid of any talk.

Now, I understand that drones in the Collective prefer to prohibit various word usage, in order to make it more difficult for their opposition to articulate their positions more effectively. Hillary supporters for instance have a list of words they’re hilariously prohibiting the media from using. Since I have no respect for this sort of fascist nonsense, we’ll continue to keep most options available to us in the entire dictionary.

The
First off, let’s not get rid of any talk.

Now, I understand that drones in the Collective prefer to prohibit various word usage, in order to make it more difficult for their opposition to articulate their positions more effectively. Hillary supporters for instance have a list of words they’re hilariously prohibiting the media from using. Since I have no respect for this sort of fascist nonsense, we’ll continue to keep most options available to us in the entire dictionary.

The question here is what exactly is a paint-by-numbers character trope in the modern era?

The answer to that question, is that it is the woman who behaves what she thinks a man behaves like (even though men don’t behave that way), who can do it all, and hold her own against assailants that outweigh her 3 to 1. One of the most hilarious sequences in Avengers, was Scarlett’s entrance, in which she deftly combats her captors. Hilarious, because it was painfully obvious that in shots which didn't show Scarlett’s face, the actress was replaced by a male stunt double wearing a black leotard, confirming the fantasy quality of this notion. But that’s what today’s paint-by-numbers trope is. When Scarlett Johanson or Keira Knightly or any other actress who might otherwise find themselves on the cover of Cosmopolitan are depicted as tough and gritty and “hard as nails” and just as much of a man as men can be, then her whole arc has in fact been telegraphed in the first act, and as is more often the case, in the trailer itself.

To say that the particular trope used in this Jurassic Park clip is lazy and paint-by-the-numbers in the modern era is to ignore the fact that it hasn't been used regularly since the dippy hippies stumbled out their piss holes at Woodstock in the flatulent 1960s. As one other Joblo.com reader insightfully noted, this movie is about things that are extinct.

The problem you’re having with regards to your argument over a character’s agency, is the failure to consider the opposite scenario. If a male character is painted as 2 dimensional and emotionally stunted, would that men that he would need a relaxed cool chick character to allow him to develop? Would this be sexist? This is the problem with modern notions of sexism, it labels anything and everything as sexist without regards as to whether or not it actually is, and more often than not is a one way street which indicates that it’s not a genuine issue at all. Rather, it’s imaginary nonsense that feminists like to wring their hands over to make themselves feel important. It places all focus on the development of the female lead, when really all most people are concerned with seeing here is dinosaurs eating people.

Your argument also fails to apply agency to audience. Outside of females who dye their armpit hair, most are unlikely to give second thought to hand wringing over purely imaginary issues as they extract meaning from the sequence. This is the exclusive domain of the feminist. Men simply don't care about sexism, reverse or otherwise.

The Bechdel test is not at all ground work from which other critical thinking can spring. In fact, it represents the antithesis of critical thinking because those who use it are letting Alison Bechdel do their thinking for them. Rather, critical thinking involves being critical of the Bechdel test itself, which I’ve already engaged in above, where I propose applying opposite standards thereby demonstrating its unthinking absurdity. This is something I routinely did in film school before I graduated. It’s like the endless 10 page Marx/Freud analysis of film that purport to spark critical thinking which professors like to assign, when all it really does is train drones to parrot what Marx and Freud thought.

Why is it to claim that male characters are treated just as unfairly in movies in the modern era asinine?

Outside of soap operas which I’m not sure are even on the air anymore, I can’t remember seeing a movie where a female character spent 2 hours endlessly prattling on about how much they need a man. Why would I want to sit and listen to that? You ask in the movies where a totally or predominately male cast does speak to each other, how often is it about women? The only proper response is, who cares? That’s the difference between men and women that feminists will likely never understand; men don’t wring their hands over minutiae and imaginary issues. They shrug their shoulders, and move on.

Let’s examine life which art is oftentimes an imitation of. Winning wars, shooting aliens (or human enemies), riding horses, historically speaking, have been the arena of men. The reason men who do these things are rugged, is because doing these things creates rugged men. You won’t find the equivalent of a Vogue cover model out sniping enemy combatants in the middle east because the nature of the job and the environment hardens and roughens the skin, builds the muscles, develops decidedly masculine traits and mannerisms.

It’s why a female version of the Han Solo archetype would be far more realistic if the character were modeled after Amelia Earhart, rather than a 19 year old Penthouse Pet wearing a cosplay costume.

The reason that men wouldn’t go see a movie that had all the male characters hemming and hawing as the primary form of dialogue, is because men don’t do that, because they’re not interested in that. Women and feminists do that, and are interested in that. The very existence of the Bechdel test demonstrates this and in fact, you yourself are proving this point with all of your own hemming and hawing in this thread. And over what? Over movies! Sheesh!

Friendly advice; take some Valium and move on with your life.
6:22PM on 04/12/2015
Whatever dude. I was just trying to find common ground and possibly deconstruct the elements and think critically. All you want to do is be offensive and reductive as possible.

Keep your hard line political views. I hope they serve you well in life.
Whatever dude. I was just trying to find common ground and possibly deconstruct the elements and think critically. All you want to do is be offensive and reductive as possible.

Keep your hard line political views. I hope they serve you well in life.
7:45PM on 04/12/2015
Yeah. Trying to find common ground by prohibiting the opposition from expressing ideas that you disagree with. I imagine you find common ground with everyone whose expressions you restrict to reflect your own.

The problem here is that reality itself is offensive to the Collective. So explaining it to them will always offend them, as does everything else in this universe.

The bottom line here, is that this conversation itself confirms the reality of the very "character trope" that you
Yeah. Trying to find common ground by prohibiting the opposition from expressing ideas that you disagree with. I imagine you find common ground with everyone whose expressions you restrict to reflect your own.

The problem here is that reality itself is offensive to the Collective. So explaining it to them will always offend them, as does everything else in this universe.

The bottom line here, is that this conversation itself confirms the reality of the very "character trope" that you claim is outdated. If you were able to think critically you'd see that.
2:07PM on 04/13/2015
Dude, he didn't prohibit you from saying shit. He sat it aside for a minute, and then brought it right back up. You're seriously one stubborn person. I'd be surprised if you even read his entire comment. And your generalizations of all men and women prove nothing more than your own blatant sexism.
Dude, he didn't prohibit you from saying shit. He sat it aside for a minute, and then brought it right back up. You're seriously one stubborn person. I'd be surprised if you even read his entire comment. And your generalizations of all men and women prove nothing more than your own blatant sexism.
9:52PM on 04/13/2015
Yes, yes. Sexism this, misogyny that. It's the Millennial Mating Call.

What in Earth are you talking about? The very first sentence he wrote was "Lets get rid of the sexist talk for a minute..." which is essentially code for let's get rid of your arguments for a minute.

And if you bothered to read my comments, you'd see that I directly responded to his.
Yes, yes. Sexism this, misogyny that. It's the Millennial Mating Call.

What in Earth are you talking about? The very first sentence he wrote was "Lets get rid of the sexist talk for a minute..." which is essentially code for let's get rid of your arguments for a minute.

And if you bothered to read my comments, you'd see that I directly responded to his.
3:30PM on 04/14/2015
Moat Man, I'm not even gonna lie, I can't make sense of your comment to tell what you responded directly to or not. On my screen it's broken up by all kinds of weird little symbols every third or fifth word. So, yeah, my bad for making the asshole statement that you probably didn't read it. But what I could read, I did disagree with. (Except one major thing- I do think that men are portrayed in sexist manners all the time too. Sexism runs both ways, and often.) But, I still disagree with the
Moat Man, I'm not even gonna lie, I can't make sense of your comment to tell what you responded directly to or not. On my screen it's broken up by all kinds of weird little symbols every third or fifth word. So, yeah, my bad for making the asshole statement that you probably didn't read it. But what I could read, I did disagree with. (Except one major thing- I do think that men are portrayed in sexist manners all the time too. Sexism runs both ways, and often.) But, I still disagree with the bulk of your arguments. And I still don't think he just wanted to get rid of your side of the argument... but maybe approach it from a different perspective? Which is healthy for debate, but, you know... not everyone on the internet wants healthy debate. I can't read his mind (and neither can you) so I guess we'll never know for sure.
5:52AM on 04/11/2015
Joss Whedon sees sexism everywhere. Everywhere, that is, except his own writing. He's not a very self-aware fellow, is he?
Joss Whedon sees sexism everywhere. Everywhere, that is, except his own writing. He's not a very self-aware fellow, is he?
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+6
5:37AM on 04/11/2015

Shut up, Joss.

Just shut up.
Just shut up.
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5:26AM on 04/11/2015
First of all context! this is a 2 minute scene from what I assume will be almost a 3 hour movie. Second enough with the PC bullshit, some women are stiff, some guys are stiff, etc, etc. If every character in a movie had to be portrayed as the PC police wanted them, every movie would be the same boring ass shit!

Women don't need our help to live their lives. (in the USA)
First of all context! this is a 2 minute scene from what I assume will be almost a 3 hour movie. Second enough with the PC bullshit, some women are stiff, some guys are stiff, etc, etc. If every character in a movie had to be portrayed as the PC police wanted them, every movie would be the same boring ass shit!

Women don't need our help to live their lives. (in the USA)
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2:13AM on 04/11/2015

Still upset

I'm still upset over the velociraptors riding alongside the motorcycle. There, I said it.
I'm still upset over the velociraptors riding alongside the motorcycle. There, I said it.
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+1
12:48AM on 04/11/2015
Wow, someone has far too much time on their hands if they've analysed this scene in an action movie as sexist. Just seems no one can do anything in be it film, song or novel now days without it offending one pc persons sensitivity or another.
Wow, someone has far too much time on their hands if they've analysed this scene in an action movie as sexist. Just seems no one can do anything in be it film, song or novel now days without it offending one pc persons sensitivity or another.
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2:50PM on 04/11/2015
Everyone should stop being offended by his comment about a short clip. Everyone is entitled to think what they want which is fine. He's a writer/Director so yeah, him analysing a scene seems up his alley.
I don't agree/disagree with his comment and I also don't think people here need to go batshit crazy about it either.
It's not like his comment is so earth-shattering important. It amazes me how many people are defending this clip when they themselves, like Wedon, don't know where it will
Everyone should stop being offended by his comment about a short clip. Everyone is entitled to think what they want which is fine. He's a writer/Director so yeah, him analysing a scene seems up his alley.
I don't agree/disagree with his comment and I also don't think people here need to go batshit crazy about it either.
It's not like his comment is so earth-shattering important. It amazes me how many people are defending this clip when they themselves, like Wedon, don't know where it will lead.
4:03PM on 04/11/2015
Judging by the sheer number of posts from you here defending him, I'm guessing if you want to see "batshit crazy" you should just look in the mirror.....
Judging by the sheer number of posts from you here defending him, I'm guessing if you want to see "batshit crazy" you should just look in the mirror.....
+1
12:13AM on 04/11/2015
I love his movies, but come on Whedon. We get it, you like strong female characters. Women come in all varieties, and her character here is strong. You can tell from this clip. But her character IS a stiff in this movie. From what I can tell of the trailer, she seems responsible for what happens anyway. It's just a character Joss. Get over it.
I love his movies, but come on Whedon. We get it, you like strong female characters. Women come in all varieties, and her character here is strong. You can tell from this clip. But her character IS a stiff in this movie. From what I can tell of the trailer, she seems responsible for what happens anyway. It's just a character Joss. Get over it.
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2:14AM on 04/11/2015
Actually, no, her character is not strong: she can barely get out the words she wants to say. She is clearly intimidated by Chris Pratt's character. So Whedon is right about that. But, then again, the same can be said of Buffy the Vampire Slayer whenever she was around Angel.
Actually, no, her character is not strong: she can barely get out the words she wants to say. She is clearly intimidated by Chris Pratt's character. So Whedon is right about that. But, then again, the same can be said of Buffy the Vampire Slayer whenever she was around Angel.
3:28AM on 04/11/2015
Clearly, they have a personal relationship. But she runs a friggin dinosaur theme park. So, yeah, I am pretty sure she's a strong person. Intimidated also seems to be the wrong word for it. Intimidation comes from believing someone is stronger than you. She doesn't appear to believe he is stronger than him, he just happens to know some truths about her, enough to make her uncomfortable.
Clearly, they have a personal relationship. But she runs a friggin dinosaur theme park. So, yeah, I am pretty sure she's a strong person. Intimidated also seems to be the wrong word for it. Intimidation comes from believing someone is stronger than you. She doesn't appear to believe he is stronger than him, he just happens to know some truths about her, enough to make her uncomfortable.
11:06PM on 04/10/2015
Most of MARVEL movie posters and banners from Iron Man and Avengers shows Black Widow from behind... like promoting "a buch of superheros and some chick ass". Apparently Whedon doesn't care about that.
Most of MARVEL movie posters and banners from Iron Man and Avengers shows Black Widow from behind... like promoting "a buch of superheros and some chick ass". Apparently Whedon doesn't care about that.
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11:25PM on 04/10/2015
People keep saying this, but I've only seen one poster that shows her from behind. Well, it's been used for a couple of posters but it's the same shot- so it's pretty much the same poster. Seriously, I saw your comment and I have been scouring for 20 minutes in an attempt to find another shot other than this one that is from behind.

[link]

Other than that, they're all head on or ¾ front profiles. It's funny how people use their computers to bitch and to flaunt their knowledge, but not to">
People keep saying this, but I've only seen one poster that shows her from behind. Well, it's been used for a couple of posters but it's the same shot- so it's pretty much the same poster. Seriously, I saw your comment and I have been scouring for 20 minutes in an attempt to find another shot other than this one that is from behind.

[link]

Other than that, they're all head on or ¾ front profiles. It's funny how people use their computers to bitch and to flaunt their knowledge, but not to do any actual research to back up said knowledge and bitching.
2:18AM on 04/11/2015
More to the point, there's nothing wrong with the Black Widow showing off her ass. Thor is going to be shirtless and wet in Avengers 2, Captain America was topless when he came out of the Vitaray machine in Captain America: the First Avenger and Starlord was topless in Guardians of the Galaxy during the prison scene. We don't pick up on these things because we are straight males.
More to the point, there's nothing wrong with the Black Widow showing off her ass. Thor is going to be shirtless and wet in Avengers 2, Captain America was topless when he came out of the Vitaray machine in Captain America: the First Avenger and Starlord was topless in Guardians of the Galaxy during the prison scene. We don't pick up on these things because we are straight males.
11:36AM on 04/11/2015
If "it's been used for a couple of posters" there is not "only one" mr. acalebw lol and I also remember a shot of Scarlet Witch in a banner also in the same position but I can't find it right now, and it's not such a big deal to look for it. It was just an example on how Whedon comment is stupid. I'm not bitchin' I don't even care, is just a comment in a post about Whedon.
If "it's been used for a couple of posters" there is not "only one" mr. acalebw lol and I also remember a shot of Scarlet Witch in a banner also in the same position but I can't find it right now, and it's not such a big deal to look for it. It was just an example on how Whedon comment is stupid. I'm not bitchin' I don't even care, is just a comment in a post about Whedon.
5:21PM on 04/11/2015
Well, Roger, it is used as a stand alone poster and then as a mega poster with all the other posters combined together. So yeah, it's still kind of just one.
Well, Roger, it is used as a stand alone poster and then as a mega poster with all the other posters combined together. So yeah, it's still kind of just one.
10:21PM on 04/10/2015
To be upfront, I'm a huge Whedon fanboy and find most of his tweets to be pleasant, but this one was a little much.
To be upfront, I'm a huge Whedon fanboy and find most of his tweets to be pleasant, but this one was a little much.
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10:20PM on 04/10/2015

It's nothing to do with liberalism / conservatism

Ironically it is about how Whedon feels women should behave. Whedon seems to think that women should be going out and having fun. Thing is, fun loving people don't get to be corporate leaders or presidents. So who is holding women back here?

If they wanted a woman who could play a good leader then they would have gotten Glenn Close: she played the Vice-President on Air Force One, a police captain on The Shield, a corporate lawyer on Damages, a Chief Justice on The West Wing and Nova
Ironically it is about how Whedon feels women should behave. Whedon seems to think that women should be going out and having fun. Thing is, fun loving people don't get to be corporate leaders or presidents. So who is holding women back here?

If they wanted a woman who could play a good leader then they would have gotten Glenn Close: she played the Vice-President on Air Force One, a police captain on The Shield, a corporate lawyer on Damages, a Chief Justice on The West Wing and Nova Prime in Guardians of the Galaxy. She is actually typecast in these roles. If the part had been written for Glenn Close she would have said something along the lines of "Put your dick back in your pants and concentrate on the matter at hand."

In fact, that is exactly what Bryce Dallas Howard's character should have said: Chris Platt's character was way out of line in this scene and his comments bordered on sexual harassment. Imagine if you had dated a girl and she couldn't shut up about it when you ended up being her boss: I'm sure if Chrissy Pratt's character had had a date with Bruce Dallas Howard's character and it was all she could talk about then Joss would consider THAT sexist too
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10:26PM on 04/10/2015
He never said she shouldn't be a corporate leader. EVER. Like, I dare you to find that quote. Please. He thinks that she should be able to be both a corporate leader and a normal person with healthy functioning relationships, maybe. He thinks that people should be more than 2D characters in movies. Like, it kills me that the entire second half of your post makes plenty of sense, but the first half is completely asinine.
He never said she shouldn't be a corporate leader. EVER. Like, I dare you to find that quote. Please. He thinks that she should be able to be both a corporate leader and a normal person with healthy functioning relationships, maybe. He thinks that people should be more than 2D characters in movies. Like, it kills me that the entire second half of your post makes plenty of sense, but the first half is completely asinine.
10:39PM on 04/10/2015
Frankly, I've always thought Buffy The Vampire Slayer was sexist. She was destined to be a vampire slayer but all she wants to do is have fun. She's an airhead. Whedon's comment, taken in the context of his body of work, is completely asinine.

Anyway, you can look at his comment: "She's a stiff, he's a life-force". That in itself is not sexist: you can have men who are stiff and, in fact, most men in her position would be stiff, especially when dealing with an awkward situation (in this
Frankly, I've always thought Buffy The Vampire Slayer was sexist. She was destined to be a vampire slayer but all she wants to do is have fun. She's an airhead. Whedon's comment, taken in the context of his body of work, is completely asinine.

Anyway, you can look at his comment: "She's a stiff, he's a life-force". That in itself is not sexist: you can have men who are stiff and, in fact, most men in her position would be stiff, especially when dealing with an awkward situation (in this case, a sexual harasser). Whedon seems to think that when women are sexually harassed they should just go along with it and have fun.
11:12PM on 04/10/2015
Buffy was sometimes an air head, but sometimes very intelligent. And she didn't "just want to have fun" she "just wanted to have a NORMAL LIFE". Those things don't make her dumb, or sexist. They make her three dimensional. The whole point of her character was that she was a bit flighty, but also smart and quick witted. Hence the battle planning and fight strategy and training of her own fucking army. I mean, yeah, she had some stereotypical sexist components because she was designed to be a
Buffy was sometimes an air head, but sometimes very intelligent. And she didn't "just want to have fun" she "just wanted to have a NORMAL LIFE". Those things don't make her dumb, or sexist. They make her three dimensional. The whole point of her character was that she was a bit flighty, but also smart and quick witted. Hence the battle planning and fight strategy and training of her own fucking army. I mean, yeah, she had some stereotypical sexist components because she was designed to be a pastiche and deconstruction of those stereotypes. That goes over a LOT of people's heads. No one is perfect, even Mr. Whedon. But you seem to be able to pull a plethora of different meanings from six or seven of his words, so i'm not sure how you managed to miss the satirical subtext of 7 years of television and 3+ years of Whedon planned comics.


(I have to edit to say I find defending Buffy hilarious, since when I was watching BtVS she was my absolute least favorite thing about the show.)
2:22AM on 04/11/2015
Well then, by the same token, Whedon might be wrong about Bryce Dallas Howard's portrayal as Claire as being sexist: yes, she was weak in this particular scene, presumably because she was still attracted to Chris Platt's character but maybe before the movie is over she will tell him to go fuck himself (because he isn't going to get to fuck her).

The fact remains though that Buffy wasn't the epitome of a strong female character and as far as being a "normal person with healthy functioning
Well then, by the same token, Whedon might be wrong about Bryce Dallas Howard's portrayal as Claire as being sexist: yes, she was weak in this particular scene, presumably because she was still attracted to Chris Platt's character but maybe before the movie is over she will tell him to go fuck himself (because he isn't going to get to fuck her).

The fact remains though that Buffy wasn't the epitome of a strong female character and as far as being a "normal person with healthy functioning relationships" she pretty much gave that up to be a vampire slayer.
5:23PM on 04/11/2015
He never said her portrayal or the movie was sexist in their entirety- just this clip.This specific clip. And Buffy never gave up relationships. She decided she should find the one that was right for her, and not define her self by her relationship or lack there of.
He never said her portrayal or the movie was sexist in their entirety- just this clip.This specific clip. And Buffy never gave up relationships. She decided she should find the one that was right for her, and not define her self by her relationship or lack there of.
+0
10:09PM on 04/10/2015
ALSO? Just gotta say this. The trope- and that's what the "power hungry stff ice queen only melts for the rough, earthy every man" storyline is, a trope- is both a 70's era relic and sexist. Sorry, boys. I know a lot of the readers here are guys, and most of those guys are "guys guys" (also a sexist and stupid as fuck term, but you know....) but that doesn't change the fact that yes, the trope (not the movie, or the actors, or anything like that- just the clip and the storyline it seems to
ALSO? Just gotta say this. The trope- and that's what the "power hungry stff ice queen only melts for the rough, earthy every man" storyline is, a trope- is both a 70's era relic and sexist. Sorry, boys. I know a lot of the readers here are guys, and most of those guys are "guys guys" (also a sexist and stupid as fuck term, but you know....) but that doesn't change the fact that yes, the trope (not the movie, or the actors, or anything like that- just the clip and the storyline it seems to present) is kind of sexist. Women can be powerful without having to be the "ice queen who must be melted" schtick. Yes the characters SEEM to have a history. Seem. We have no context with which to judge the movie. Which is why Joss doesn't say shit about the movie, or it's plot, but simply about the CLIP. The CLIP of a guy acting kinda sexist to a woman who's role seems kind of sexist. Get over it. Jesus.
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+3
10:09PM on 04/10/2015
OH Lord, shut up...
OH Lord, shut up...
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10:35PM on 04/10/2015
Take your own advice.
Take your own advice.
+0
9:26PM on 04/10/2015
Dear Dumbfucks-
LIBERAL and CONSERVATIVE are not insults, they are ideologies. Grow up and wise up people, you sound uneducated and immature.
Dear Dumbfucks-
LIBERAL and CONSERVATIVE are not insults, they are ideologies. Grow up and wise up people, you sound uneducated and immature.
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9:32PM on 04/10/2015
---
---
9:15PM on 04/10/2015
Please, Pratt was showing way more cleavage than she was. Maybe she could borrow one of Black Widows outfits next time and loosen up.
Please, Pratt was showing way more cleavage than she was. Maybe she could borrow one of Black Widows outfits next time and loosen up.
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+0
8:51PM on 04/10/2015
Well... there goes my respect for Whedon. Cant stand when ppl turn things that arent sexist or racist into those types if issues.

The clip should be criticized for being crappy and quickly making my most anticipated movie of this year be my biggest disappointment ever. The trailers and this clip have been crappy.
Well... there goes my respect for Whedon. Cant stand when ppl turn things that arent sexist or racist into those types if issues.

The clip should be criticized for being crappy and quickly making my most anticipated movie of this year be my biggest disappointment ever. The trailers and this clip have been crappy.
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7:07PM on 04/10/2015

Clip fits the tone of the movie...

...it's about things that have gone extinct.
...it's about things that have gone extinct.
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6:20PM on 04/10/2015

i don't know that it is...

... all that much of a throw back. so what if he is laid back and she is frigid. i know plenty of people like him... and her. get over yourself Joss, you are probably just upset that no main characters are being violently murdered in this scene.
... all that much of a throw back. so what if he is laid back and she is frigid. i know plenty of people like him... and her. get over yourself Joss, you are probably just upset that no main characters are being violently murdered in this scene.
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5:28PM on 04/10/2015

Oh good grief.

Get over it, Whedon.

Wait for the damn movie to come out, will ya? There might yet be an absurdly ridiculous action sequence with some petite blond that we can all laugh at.
Get over it, Whedon.

Wait for the damn movie to come out, will ya? There might yet be an absurdly ridiculous action sequence with some petite blond that we can all laugh at.
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+5
5:26PM on 04/10/2015
I'm more upset by the inaccurate portrayal of Dinosaurs. Where are the feathers? How come they aren't acting bird-like?
I'm more upset by the inaccurate portrayal of Dinosaurs. Where are the feathers? How come they aren't acting bird-like?
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+0
5:23PM on 04/10/2015

Not a great sign...

I'm more offended at how lame the whole scene is with the on-the-nose dialog. He might as well just say "I'm an laid back, carefree dude!" while she responds with "I am incompatible with you because I need things to be appropriate and in order at all times!"

Did they just base her character off Katherine Heigl's character from this movie:

[link]
I'm more offended at how lame the whole scene is with the on-the-nose dialog. He might as well just say "I'm an laid back, carefree dude!" while she responds with "I am incompatible with you because I need things to be appropriate and in order at all times!"

Did they just base her character off Katherine Heigl's character from this movie:

[link]
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5:21PM on 04/10/2015
I have a female boss that has a much larger stick up her ass than Bryce dallas howard shows in this video, doesn't make me think all women are like that, that makes me think I have a crappy boss. watching this I didn't see anything wrong, im a big fan of joss whedons but he's clutching at straws here
I have a female boss that has a much larger stick up her ass than Bryce dallas howard shows in this video, doesn't make me think all women are like that, that makes me think I have a crappy boss. watching this I didn't see anything wrong, im a big fan of joss whedons but he's clutching at straws here
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5:09PM on 04/10/2015

I can see his point

The dialogue is a massive throwback to thirty years ago - the laid-back dude versus the uptight, frigid bitch - but I'd respect Joss's response more if he had used his clout to green-light a solo BLACK WIDOW film. With her box office clout, if Scarlett Johansson had been a guy that movie would have been approved years ago.
The dialogue is a massive throwback to thirty years ago - the laid-back dude versus the uptight, frigid bitch - but I'd respect Joss's response more if he had used his clout to green-light a solo BLACK WIDOW film. With her box office clout, if Scarlett Johansson had been a guy that movie would have been approved years ago.
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5:22PM on 04/10/2015
lol 30 years ago you wouldn't have a woman in a position of power who is uptight and frigid. That is something that has come forth in the last 15 or so years with women taking a more proactive and dominant approach to the work place. Nice try ;)
lol 30 years ago you wouldn't have a woman in a position of power who is uptight and frigid. That is something that has come forth in the last 15 or so years with women taking a more proactive and dominant approach to the work place. Nice try ;)
5:31PM on 04/10/2015
Believe it or not there are in fact still laid back dudes who can't stand uptight frigid bitches, even if the Hollywood fantasy makers might want us to think differently.
Believe it or not there are in fact still laid back dudes who can't stand uptight frigid bitches, even if the Hollywood fantasy makers might want us to think differently.
5:58PM on 04/10/2015
@The_ConMan - not true, and just one example is that Lucille Ball was the first woman to be head of a Hollywood production company - Desilu. She and Desi formed it together but she eventually bought him out and ran it on her own. There are other cases of women in positions of that kind of power prior to 30 years ago and certainly long before 15 years ago! Of course not like today, but to say they didn't exist is off the mark.
@The_ConMan - not true, and just one example is that Lucille Ball was the first woman to be head of a Hollywood production company - Desilu. She and Desi formed it together but she eventually bought him out and ran it on her own. There are other cases of women in positions of that kind of power prior to 30 years ago and certainly long before 15 years ago! Of course not like today, but to say they didn't exist is off the mark.
6:32PM on 04/10/2015
@ The_ConMan: LOOK WHO'S TALKING (1989) has that exact scenario, with John Travolta and Kirstie Alley. Speaking of Alley, there's also the entire second half of Cheers (1982 to 1993). There goes your theory. Nice try. ;)
@ The_ConMan: LOOK WHO'S TALKING (1989) has that exact scenario, with John Travolta and Kirstie Alley. Speaking of Alley, there's also the entire second half of Cheers (1982 to 1993). There goes your theory. Nice try. ;)
+0
5:03PM on 04/10/2015

Good point, Joss

"We did not do all we could to cure societys ills. You are correct."
- Jurassic World
"We did not do all we could to cure societys ills. You are correct."
- Jurassic World
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4:48PM on 04/10/2015
It's sexist to Whedon because she doesn't make a tired and obvious pop culture reference. Seriously, that's his idea of feminism. An extremely talented guy but unjustly worshipped for his "cute" dialogue.
It's sexist to Whedon because she doesn't make a tired and obvious pop culture reference. Seriously, that's his idea of feminism. An extremely talented guy but unjustly worshipped for his "cute" dialogue.
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-1
4:18PM on 04/10/2015
Really poor choice of clip to release, its causing all these negative reactions.
Really poor choice of clip to release, its causing all these negative reactions.
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5:32PM on 04/10/2015
By people who can't control themselves. To hell with them.
By people who can't control themselves. To hell with them.
+1
4:14PM on 04/10/2015
I thought Bryce Dallas Howard was a little stiff until it was mentioned they dated once, then it made a bit more sense. But even if that wasn't the case, so what... she was a little stiff. And now that makes this clip "sexist"? Relax, Whedon.
I thought Bryce Dallas Howard was a little stiff until it was mentioned they dated once, then it made a bit more sense. But even if that wasn't the case, so what... she was a little stiff. And now that makes this clip "sexist"? Relax, Whedon.
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4:09PM on 04/10/2015

There is a rift in the Marvel Universe.

Can you feel it? Fanboys' heads are exploding trying to choose between Whedon and Starlord. Pants will be shat.
Can you feel it? Fanboys' heads are exploding trying to choose between Whedon and Starlord. Pants will be shat.
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+2
4:03PM on 04/10/2015
Sexist is a little extreme because I know men and women who act like both those characters.
Sexist is a little extreme because I know men and women who act like both those characters.
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4:37PM on 04/10/2015
Yes but you see it's sexist because Joss is a Liberal and has decided he knows better than you or I (or women).....
Yes but you see it's sexist because Joss is a Liberal and has decided he knows better than you or I (or women).....
3:51PM on 04/10/2015
Funny how he had nothing to say about Starlords objectification of women and sleeping around and treating women as disposable objects and not knowing their names etc.
Funny how he had nothing to say about Starlords objectification of women and sleeping around and treating women as disposable objects and not knowing their names etc.
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3:51PM on 04/10/2015
Says the man whose dialogue is still trapped in 1999...
Says the man whose dialogue is still trapped in 1999...
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+2
3:47PM on 04/10/2015

Dumb

Just so dumb.
Just so dumb.
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+3
3:47PM on 04/10/2015
Yeah, because judging a 90 second long clip with zero context makes any kind of sense. Exactly the sort of asinine trash I've come to expect from Whedon.
Yeah, because judging a 90 second long clip with zero context makes any kind of sense. Exactly the sort of asinine trash I've come to expect from Whedon.
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+7
3:35PM on 04/10/2015

Oh Joss...

That high horse gets taller and taller with every passing day.
That high horse gets taller and taller with every passing day.
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11:22AM on 04/11/2015
Haha yep.
Haha yep.
3:34PM on 04/10/2015

Tl; DR Version: Whedon's Feminist Identity is More Important to Him Than Logic or Honesty

This is actually pretty typical nonsense from the once self-described feminist, Whedon (who has since disowned the term a bit, presumably thanks to the behaviors of third-wave feminists).

Whenever some geek-centric thing can be framed as sexist and his misogyny sense goes off, he will make some comment which is never nearly as well-thought out or clever as his scriptwriting tends to be. His previous opinion-vomit was about Marvel Studios lack of female-led superhero movies, which was an
This is actually pretty typical nonsense from the once self-described feminist, Whedon (who has since disowned the term a bit, presumably thanks to the behaviors of third-wave feminists).

Whenever some geek-centric thing can be framed as sexist and his misogyny sense goes off, he will make some comment which is never nearly as well-thought out or clever as his scriptwriting tends to be. His previous opinion-vomit was about Marvel Studios lack of female-led superhero movies, which was an idiotic statement because not only is Marvel playing the financial long game with their properties (and a female-led superhero movie is still an unknown financial risk), but they already had one in the pipeline with Captain Marvel.

Of course, this Jurassic World comment was equally stupid because the clip was taken out of context, the characters clearly have an existing relationship which has gone into a contentious state, and while Im sure Whedon isnt going to hop into bed with Chris Pratts character based on that clip, Im guessing there are plenty of women who would be more than happy to do so.

You may as well say that Indiana Jones has no place in the world post-1970s because he is pretty much the exact same type. So we arent allowed to enjoy Temple of Doom anymore because Henry Jones Jr.s overt masculinity and unattached enjoyment of the opposite sex might offend someone?

All this, even though Whedon-written characters like Faith from Buffy the Vampire Slayer approach relationships in the same way, yet are held up as progressive feminist statementsso that behavior is okay, but this behavior is not simply by way of chromosomes? Isnt that the same double-standard argument feminists used to argue against?

Thats the thing Ive never understood about Whedon being some feminist iconBuffy herself spent 8 years of that show chasing and fretting about one man, and entering self-destructive relationships with other men. The LGBT couple held up as a feminist example on that show? One was murdered and the other was so grief-stricken at losing the love of her life, she went evilbut then got over it and moved on six months later. Six. Months. Later. What kind of supposed standard is this?

I like Whedons stuff (particularly Firefly), even with some of his more problematic storytelling tendenciesbut when it comes to the male/female topic, the guy goes full-turnip.
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3:20PM on 04/10/2015
This is like those internet message board images you see online of someone being such a feminist or anti-xenophobia that merely saying "this person of the opposite gender from me is attractive" is tantamount to bigotry or misogyny. I like (don't love) Whedon, I respect feminism and consider myself a feminist, but sometimes being politically correct or empathetic goes beyond reason and into the rhetoric of a zealot rather than the cogent thought it was surely meant as.
This is like those internet message board images you see online of someone being such a feminist or anti-xenophobia that merely saying "this person of the opposite gender from me is attractive" is tantamount to bigotry or misogyny. I like (don't love) Whedon, I respect feminism and consider myself a feminist, but sometimes being politically correct or empathetic goes beyond reason and into the rhetoric of a zealot rather than the cogent thought it was surely meant as.
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3:18PM on 04/10/2015

Typical Whedon

While I loved Firefly, he needs to stop this already. I think Avengers was his first work that wasn't woman focused. He needs to relax and just learn to enjoy things without always pushing an agenda or running his mouth.

While I loved Firefly, he needs to stop this already. I think Avengers was his first work that wasn't woman focused. He needs to relax and just learn to enjoy things without always pushing an agenda or running his mouth.

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3:19PM on 04/10/2015
What agenda?!
What agenda?!
5:33PM on 04/10/2015
The idiot agenda. Also known as progressive ideology.
The idiot agenda. Also known as progressive ideology.
2:11PM on 04/13/2015
Progressive ideology is supposed to be a good thing. Unless you'd prefer we all regress to moronic cave men.
Progressive ideology is supposed to be a good thing. Unless you'd prefer we all regress to moronic cave men.
3:15PM on 04/10/2015

I don't agree

I think it should be more of a case of the clip being stupid and like HaloFett said, "cringe-worthy". It seriously took my interest down a few points.
I think it should be more of a case of the clip being stupid and like HaloFett said, "cringe-worthy". It seriously took my interest down a few points.
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3:15PM on 04/10/2015
Uh oh. The sexist joblowers are gonna wet their dick holes with this one. They dont like to be reminded of women.
Uh oh. The sexist joblowers are gonna wet their dick holes with this one. They dont like to be reminded of women.
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5:34PM on 04/10/2015
Does that even have any meaning?
Does that even have any meaning?
6:11PM on 04/10/2015
I believe that's hipster for "pee their pants."
I believe that's hipster for "pee their pants."
7:31PM on 04/10/2015
Really? Why hipster? I just dont understand why small minded dumpy suburbanites always throw that word around. Its like republicans and calling everyone who isnt dead inside Liberal.
Really? Why hipster? I just dont understand why small minded dumpy suburbanites always throw that word around. Its like republicans and calling everyone who isnt dead inside Liberal.
11:42PM on 04/10/2015
I stand corrected. It's douchebag for "pee their pants."
I stand corrected. It's douchebag for "pee their pants."
1:45AM on 04/11/2015
john, that was fun
john, that was fun
3:12PM on 04/10/2015
I thought the clip was cringe-worthy just based on the cliche tin-eared dialogue, but sexist? Nah. Too many instances of the free-willed life-force girl coming in and turning the stiff conservative dude's life on its head.
I thought the clip was cringe-worthy just based on the cliche tin-eared dialogue, but sexist? Nah. Too many instances of the free-willed life-force girl coming in and turning the stiff conservative dude's life on its head.
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3:06PM on 04/10/2015

just keep making movies, whedon...

you know...the ones with scarlett's ass all stuffed into leathery-plastic.

you know...the ones with scarlett's ass all stuffed into leathery-plastic.

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3:10PM on 04/10/2015
hey!!! thats not sexism because in that characters mind...she has chosen to be a sex object...shes in control
hey!!! thats not sexism because in that characters mind...she has chosen to be a sex object...shes in control
11:30PM on 04/10/2015
That, and can you blame him for a costume the character has been wearing for 30 freaking years? Black Widow wears tight leather, and uses sex. She has done so for decades, well before Mr. Whedon and his movies.
That, and can you blame him for a costume the character has been wearing for 30 freaking years? Black Widow wears tight leather, and uses sex. She has done so for decades, well before Mr. Whedon and his movies.
1:08PM on 04/11/2015
Not only that, but her costume is far less revealing in the movies than comics. Her movie presence isn't bursting at the seams on the cleavage end like the comics. So really, she's toned down in the films.
Not only that, but her costume is far less revealing in the movies than comics. Her movie presence isn't bursting at the seams on the cleavage end like the comics. So really, she's toned down in the films.
2:58PM on 04/10/2015
Man I thought the scene was great. Was it sexist? I dunno. I don't go looking at films or trailers evaluating whether they are going to offend people. I just never took Joss as one of those guys who takes dumps on other peoples' work on social media. Kinda lost a little respect for Mr Whedon. Isn't that one of those comments you decide not to publish to the world? Like nobody's gonna look at Black Widow and think "man why are they so sexist with her?" Joss please spare us all the
Man I thought the scene was great. Was it sexist? I dunno. I don't go looking at films or trailers evaluating whether they are going to offend people. I just never took Joss as one of those guys who takes dumps on other peoples' work on social media. Kinda lost a little respect for Mr Whedon. Isn't that one of those comments you decide not to publish to the world? Like nobody's gonna look at Black Widow and think "man why are they so sexist with her?" Joss please spare us all the sanctimonious ultra left put down.
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2:56PM on 04/10/2015
OMG!!! Someone has an opinion based off a clip!! STOP THE PRESSES!!
Seriously folks, relax. Just as Weadon is allowed to be iffy on this clip, people are allowed to be happy with it.
It's amazing how many people are attacking him now. Is it REALLY that important to care about his comment?
What makes you attacking him any better? Nadda.
This is also not news worthy.
OMG!!! Someone has an opinion based off a clip!! STOP THE PRESSES!!
Seriously folks, relax. Just as Weadon is allowed to be iffy on this clip, people are allowed to be happy with it.
It's amazing how many people are attacking him now. Is it REALLY that important to care about his comment?
What makes you attacking him any better? Nadda.
This is also not news worthy.
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2:52PM on 04/10/2015

For Petes Sake

amazing how he is critical but it's ok for him to make women sex objects when it suits his agenda because his characters are "aware of what they are doing and in control of their sexuality". Mind your own business Joss. I am all for equal rights and abolishing violence and discrimination against women and minorities and all races and creeds, but there is a point where some people believe and act like feminism represents being superior to others and not EQUALITY
amazing how he is critical but it's ok for him to make women sex objects when it suits his agenda because his characters are "aware of what they are doing and in control of their sexuality". Mind your own business Joss. I am all for equal rights and abolishing violence and discrimination against women and minorities and all races and creeds, but there is a point where some people believe and act like feminism represents being superior to others and not EQUALITY
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3:18PM on 04/10/2015
No. He just saidwhat he thought. He isnt saying he is"superior".
No. He just saidwhat he thought. He isnt saying he is"superior".
3:21PM on 04/10/2015
you are missing the point.
you are missing the point.
2:13PM on 04/13/2015
Um, I'm pert sure you'd bitch up a fucking storm if Black Widow was in a robe. Because that's not what she wears in the comics. You cannot accuse one man of "sexualizing" an entire genre that existed and cemented itself decades before he was even born.
Um, I'm pert sure you'd bitch up a fucking storm if Black Widow was in a robe. Because that's not what she wears in the comics. You cannot accuse one man of "sexualizing" an entire genre that existed and cemented itself decades before he was even born.
+5
2:45PM on 04/10/2015
So having the woman play the successful corporate executive is sexist? And if Pratt was the powerful executive and Howard was dirty living in a van down by the river...I assume that would be sexist too? Can't win when the PC Police are on patrol...
So having the woman play the successful corporate executive is sexist? And if Pratt was the powerful executive and Howard was dirty living in a van down by the river...I assume that would be sexist too? Can't win when the PC Police are on patrol...
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+0
2:38PM on 04/10/2015

Joss has always been a huge Liberal tool....

To be honest, I've been shocked at how he's been able to separate his ideology from his films....he should give classes to lesser directors {cough ..... Blomkamp ..... cough}. This isn't even remotely surprising. Joss thinks he speaks for women....it's stupid, but it goes with the territory.
To be honest, I've been shocked at how he's been able to separate his ideology from his films....he should give classes to lesser directors {cough ..... Blomkamp ..... cough}. This isn't even remotely surprising. Joss thinks he speaks for women....it's stupid, but it goes with the territory.
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2:45PM on 04/10/2015
wait, isn't a male thinking he speaks for women sexist?...what, women can't speak for themselves?
wait, isn't a male thinking he speaks for women sexist?...what, women can't speak for themselves?
2:53PM on 04/10/2015
Yeah, hypocrisy from a rich Hollywood Liberal white man......what a shock.
Yeah, hypocrisy from a rich Hollywood Liberal white man......what a shock.
3:38PM on 04/10/2015
Overall, he has done a pretty good job of separating the two...but not always. Your post reminded me of a quote I read somewhere that made me laugh, it was:

"If Joss Whedon lived in the Firefly universe, he'd be on the side of the alliance."
Overall, he has done a pretty good job of separating the two...but not always. Your post reminded me of a quote I read somewhere that made me laugh, it was:

"If Joss Whedon lived in the Firefly universe, he'd be on the side of the alliance."
1:39AM on 04/11/2015
Defending women is bad ideology according to Des?!
Defending women is bad ideology according to Des?!
2:38PM on 04/10/2015
I love Joss Whedon to death, but sometimes he should just shut the fuck up.
I love Joss Whedon to death, but sometimes he should just shut the fuck up.
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2:17PM on 04/10/2015
Looks like a fun dynamic to me. Two good actors, two well defined characters. This could be a great film.
I don't know if Whedon is joking or if he's being overly politically correct.
Looks like a fun dynamic to me. Two good actors, two well defined characters. This could be a great film.
I don't know if Whedon is joking or if he's being overly politically correct.
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2:40PM on 04/10/2015
#2
#2
2:15PM on 04/10/2015

Did he even watch the whole thing?

It's clear there is history between the characters so Pratt's character is playing on that.
Don't be that guy Whedon... You don't have to have the only anticipated movie this summer.
It's clear there is history between the characters so Pratt's character is playing on that.
Don't be that guy Whedon... You don't have to have the only anticipated movie this summer.
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2:13PM on 04/10/2015
The goal post is always moving. Successful, intelligent, scientist and female? Check. Let's find something else to get pissed about to show there's no progress being made.
The goal post is always moving. Successful, intelligent, scientist and female? Check. Let's find something else to get pissed about to show there's no progress being made.
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2:10PM on 04/10/2015
Says the guy who finds any possible way to show Scarlett Johansson's assets in sexy outfits... in the most one dimensional female character in movie history. Bryce's character is already 10 times more interesting in a 90 second clip than Scarlett has ever been in the entire Marvel series... This guy is a joke.
Says the guy who finds any possible way to show Scarlett Johansson's assets in sexy outfits... in the most one dimensional female character in movie history. Bryce's character is already 10 times more interesting in a 90 second clip than Scarlett has ever been in the entire Marvel series... This guy is a joke.
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2:17PM on 04/10/2015
you know he also created Buffy the Vampire Slayer and is considered a champion for women in comics. Black Widow may have used her sex as an asset, but he made sure she was more than a pretty face in those movies.

I do think that he is calling judgement on Jurassic World way too early. Having a female character up tight isn't sexist, its could just be a character trait.
you know he also created Buffy the Vampire Slayer and is considered a champion for women in comics. Black Widow may have used her sex as an asset, but he made sure she was more than a pretty face in those movies.

I do think that he is calling judgement on Jurassic World way too early. Having a female character up tight isn't sexist, its could just be a character trait.
2:32PM on 04/10/2015
Whedon was only responsible for the way she was represented in "The Avengers". The one Marvel movie that gave her any character in a film with about ten other established characters.
Whedon was only responsible for the way she was represented in "The Avengers". The one Marvel movie that gave her any character in a film with about ten other established characters.
2:38PM on 04/10/2015
Sorry I don't know much about Whedon except that I didn't like Avengers at all and that he wrote Alien: Resurrection, an insult to the Alien series...
Sorry I don't know much about Whedon except that I didn't like Avengers at all and that he wrote Alien: Resurrection, an insult to the Alien series...
9:24PM on 04/10/2015
Well if you don't know much about a topic or a person, should you really talk about them as if you do? No, probably not. So I'll help you learn some more :P he wrote Alien: Resurrection, yes, which was then heavily rewritten by the studio without him. So again, not exactly something you can entirely blame on him. Unlike his comments today.
Well if you don't know much about a topic or a person, should you really talk about them as if you do? No, probably not. So I'll help you learn some more :P he wrote Alien: Resurrection, yes, which was then heavily rewritten by the studio without him. So again, not exactly something you can entirely blame on him. Unlike his comments today.
11:33PM on 04/10/2015
yeah he wrote Alien Resurrection, partly... he had about as much influence on that script as he did on his Oscar nominated Toy Story script.

He created critically acclaimed tv series Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Firefly, as well as a few other tv series (their greatness is more questionable, i tend to enjoy them). He has also written a ton of comic books, some of the best story lines of the last 20 years. The man has an extensive and varied resume and despite a few missteps is generally
yeah he wrote Alien Resurrection, partly... he had about as much influence on that script as he did on his Oscar nominated Toy Story script.

He created critically acclaimed tv series Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Firefly, as well as a few other tv series (their greatness is more questionable, i tend to enjoy them). He has also written a ton of comic books, some of the best story lines of the last 20 years. The man has an extensive and varied resume and despite a few missteps is generally considered a great influence in bringing geek subculture to the mainstream.

And his influence on the Black Widow character extends past just The Avengers. for the past 5 years he has been the head overseer of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. A lot of the success is credited with him. He has been executive producer of every Disney/Marvel film and consults on all script writing. It's his job to make sure the movies work together, which is a very tough job when you have so many good conflicting ideas circling around. He will stay on as executive producer but said he is moving away from Marvel after Avengers 2, his role will likely be filled by the Russo Bros.
2:09PM on 04/10/2015
LOL what a douche.
LOL what a douche.
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2:01PM on 04/10/2015
Really? It's that much of a problem with him?? It's one freakin clip of an entire film. How would he feel if someone criticized all of Age of Ultron based off one clip.

I'm a huge fan of him and am thankful as a fan for what he's done with the MCU, but this is just dumb for him to comment on.
Really? It's that much of a problem with him?? It's one freakin clip of an entire film. How would he feel if someone criticized all of Age of Ultron based off one clip.

I'm a huge fan of him and am thankful as a fan for what he's done with the MCU, but this is just dumb for him to comment on.
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2:38PM on 04/10/2015
I don't see where he's criticising an entire film. He literally says "this clip".
I don't see where he's criticising an entire film. He literally says "this clip".
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